Remember the pun in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. I think it went something like 'there is not Rome enough ...........' Rome and room being pronounced the same way at that time. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Re: Yoom? noom? room? > "in the room of" is a standard antiquated legal formulation for "in place of". > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J.C.Christopher Glass" <chrisx@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: 12 February 2004 00:47 > Subject: [OEL] Re: Yoom? noom? room? > > > > sorry if i have double posted > > sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL > > > > Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of > > Wakefield > > > > Yoom > > well it looks like a back to front Y > > > > an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase > > http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif > > > > > > > > 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in > > 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the > > 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses > > 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person > > 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place > > 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged > > 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and > > > > chris glass > > ruislip Uk > > > > ______________________________ > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

thanks to all who informed me that room was a legal term for" in place of" although i did think of room as a possible couldnt make sence of it despit trying thesaurus etc cheers chris Glass ruislip uk

> Am I right in thinking that there were special sessions of the licensing > section of the court that were held in the market hall of any particular > town, i.e. a building in the centre of the market? I think that Stockport's > also dealt with the 'assizes of bread and ale' but may yet be proved wrong. A few months ago I found a webstite giving full details and history of all the English liquor laws; Google as hard as I can I can not find it again. However I did find the page below that gives a brief outline of the Acts. http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/leisure_heritage/libraries_archives_museums_galleries/lma/pdf/licensed_victuallers.PDF David The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent.

"in the room of" is a standard antiquated legal formulation for "in place of". SANDRA LOVEGROVE Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C.Christopher Glass" <chrisx@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 12 February 2004 00:47 Subject: [OEL] Re: Yoom? noom? room? > sorry if i have double posted > sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL > > Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of > Wakefield > > Yoom > well it looks like a back to front Y > > an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase > http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif > > > > 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in > 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the > 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses > 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person > 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place > 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged > 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and > > chris glass > ruislip Uk > > ______________________________

In the 1820's in Wales, marriages were by banns or by consent. What is the difference? Gary

In message <009b01c3f101$d16c41a0$9472883e@escom>, "J.C.Christopher Glass" <chrisx@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk> writes >sorry if i have double posted >sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL > >Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of >Wakefield > >Yoom room, in the room, in place of, instead of > well it looks like a back to front Y > > in the >3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses >4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person >5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place >6 of the Trustees -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Am I right in thinking that there were special sessions of the licensing section of the court that were held in the market hall of any particular town, i.e. a building in the centre of the market? I think that Stockport's also dealt with the 'assizes of bread and ale' but may yet be proved wrong. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Pott" <davpott@hotmail.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] inspecting licences > > > Not too much to do with OEL but licensing seems to have devolved a bit, at > > one time the police were almost 100% involved with determining a "Right > and > > Proper person" based on their criminal records. > > The police are still 100% involved with deterinning a 'Fit and proper > person'. > > That is about the only part of the current licensing Act that the 2003 Act > will leave unchanged ....that is whenever HMG finishes of it's job and the > Act sets a timetable for it to come into force. > > David Pott > A licensee waiting for but not looking forward to the new Act. > The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent. > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > >

Chris: Looks like "room" to me. Best wishes Paul Prescott ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C.Christopher Glass" <chrisx@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:47 AM Subject: [OEL] Re: Yoom? noom? room? > sorry if i have double posted > sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL > > Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of > Wakefield > > Yoom > well it looks like a back to front Y > > an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase > http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif > > > > 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in > 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the > 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses > 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person > 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place > 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged > 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and > > chris glass > ruislip Uk > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 31-01-2004

Good Morning - Looks to me like "ROOM" - compare the 'r' with the letter 'r' in the word 'desiring' in the line below! Sounds logical also - "Room and places" = Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: J.C.Christopher Glass [mailto:chris@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:18 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Yoom? noom? room? Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of Wakefield Yoom well it looks like a back to front Y an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and chris glass ruislip Uk ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To contact the list administrator: OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com

sorry if i have double posted sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of Wakefield Yoom well it looks like a back to front Y an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and chris glass ruislip Uk

sorry if i have double posted sent my first one from an account not registered with OEL Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of Wakefield Yoom well it looks like a back to front Y an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and chris glass ruislip Uk

In message <BAY14-DAV24eJjt8gsV0000059b@hotmail.com>, David Pott <davpott@hotmail.com> writes >A few thoughts that I feel ought to be considered. > >Currently licences are granted by licensing committees in 'licensing >sessions' called Brewster Sessions formerly. But inn licences were by no means the only licences around in the past, as I outlined earlier. There were at least a dozen or more possible types of licence to be checked, and those of market and itinerant traders were perhaps the ones most frequently checked. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Hi all struggling with one word from a Will of joseph Sugden innkeeper of Wakefield Yoom well it looks like a back to front Y an image on my web page if its not a standard phrase http://www.geocites.com/jccglass/yoom.gif 1 Trustee by any Deed or Deeds intrument or instruments in 2 writing to be by them him or her sealed and delivered in the 3 presence of and attested by two or more credible witnesses 4 from time to time nominate and appoint any fit person 5 or persons to be Trustee or Trustees in the Yoom? or place 6 of the Trustees or Trustee so dying or desiring to be discharged 7 or becomming unwilling or incapable to act as aforsaid and chris glass ruislip Uk

Forgot this! There are a couple of Saxon words that start with "Sop" and all have a connection with food & drink, whether this could indicate some feeding place is only a wild guess. "Gara" - Saxon for - "Corner, Point of Land, Cape or Promontory" m. Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: David Pott [mailto:davpott@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:48 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Domesday Book My translation of Domesday says 'Norborne' which is transcribed as Northbourne. This makes sense 'Norborne' being in Eastry hundred as are both great and little Northbourne. Which hundreds were Sophis and Gara? David Pott The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent. The Elmsted site http://members.lycos.co.uk/elmsted/index.html > In the Domesday Book for Kent is the place name 'Northburgh' (the > single quotation marks were put in by the Latin translator). I am > wondering whether > it is possible that 'Northburgh' is the same as a medieval place > called Northlegh which today is called Northleigh. > > Two other place names (put in italics by the translator) were Sophis > and Gara. ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

My translation of Domesday says 'Norborne' which is transcribed as Northbourne. This makes sense 'Norborne' being in Eastry hundred as are both great and little Northbourne. Which hundreds were Sophis and Gara? David Pott The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent. The Elmsted site http://members.lycos.co.uk/elmsted/index.html > In the Domesday Book for Kent is the place name 'Northburgh' (the single > quotation marks were put in by the Latin translator). I am wondering whether > it is possible that 'Northburgh' is the same as a medieval place called > Northlegh which today is called Northleigh. > > Two other place names (put in italics by the translator) were Sophis and > Gara.

> Not too much to do with OEL but licensing seems to have devolved a bit, at > one time the police were almost 100% involved with determining a "Right and > Proper person" based on their criminal records. The police are still 100% involved with deterinning a 'Fit and proper person'. That is about the only part of the current licensing Act that the 2003 Act will leave unchanged ....that is whenever HMG finishes of it's job and the Act sets a timetable for it to come into force. David Pott A licensee waiting for but not looking forward to the new Act. The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent.

Good Evening - Not too much to do with OEL but licensing seems to have devolved a bit, at one time the police were almost 100% involved with determining a "Right and Proper person" based on their criminal records. Hackney Carriage licenses for instance were the prerogative of the Hackney Carriage Inspector who was usually a retired police sergeant. Nowadays the whole system is administered by a committee made up from the Local Council, the applicant has to state quite categorically whether he has been found guilty of any crime whatsoever and the application is then submitted to the police for their sanctioning, and quite right too! Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: David Pott [mailto:davpott@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:56 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] inspecting licences A few thoughts that I feel ought to be considered. Currently licences are granted by licensing committees in 'licensing sessions' and the 'General Annual Licensing Meeting' (popularly known as the 'Brewster Sessions'). The members of these committees are made up from Licensing Justices appointed by Justices of the Peace. The licence itself is called a 'Justices Licence'. Other then when court is in session all matters are dealt with by 'the Clerk to the Licensing Justices' at the Magistrates Court. The nearest to an 'inspecting licences' is a Police Licensing Inspector, who is really no more than a police officer that deals with the police side of licence applications. i.e. making sure that the applicant is a 'fit and proper person'; public order issues etc. Day to day regulating of licensing is carried out by the police. David Pott The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent. The Elmsted site http://members.lycos.co.uk/elmsted/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: [OEL] inspecting licences > Thanks to all for all the suggestions re "inspector of licences". The general > consensus is that it was most likely something to do with what is still known as > "the licensed trade", viz. victualling / beerhouse keeping, etc. > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== Going away for a while? Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com

A few thoughts that I feel ought to be considered. Currently licences are granted by licensing committees in 'licensing sessions' and the 'General Annual Licensing Meeting' (popularly known as the 'Brewster Sessions'). The members of these committees are made up from Licensing Justices appointed by Justices of the Peace. The licence itself is called a 'Justices Licence'. Other then when court is in session all matters are dealt with by 'the Clerk to the Licensing Justices' at the Magistrates Court. The nearest to an 'inspecting licences' is a Police Licensing Inspector, who is really no more than a police officer that deals with the police side of licence applications. i.e. making sure that the applicant is a 'fit and proper person'; public order issues etc. Day to day regulating of licensing is carried out by the police. David Pott The Beaver Inn, Ashford, Kent. The Elmsted site http://members.lycos.co.uk/elmsted/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 6:46 PM Subject: [OEL] inspecting licences > Thanks to all for all the suggestions re "inspector of licences". The general > consensus is that it was most likely something to do with what is still known as > "the licensed trade", viz. victualling / beerhouse keeping, etc. > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

In the Domesday Book for Kent is the place name 'Northburgh' (the single quotation marks were put in by the Latin translator). I am wondering whether it is possible that 'Northburgh' is the same as a medieval place called Northlegh which today is called Northleigh. Two other place names (put in italics by the translator) were Sophis and Gara. Any comments on these place names would be appreciated. ~~ Keith

In message <026201c3ee9e$fca7ba80$41d9ae51@lovegrove>, Sandra Lovegrove <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> writes >Any idea as to what kind of licences an inspector of licences would be >inspecting, in Hammersmith in 1851. I thought of market licences, but there may >have been others. innkeepers, hawkers, higglers, market men, sellers of wine and spirits in shops, tobacco sellers, bus conductors and drivers, hansom cabbies, coach drivers, etc - just a few of the people who had to have licences. He would be kept pretty busy -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society