Hello. I am descended from the COBBE/COBBS/COBB of Kent England. Our line can go at least back to the 1200s... John COBBE. http://www.btinternet.com/~arcobb/pages/cobbs/contents.html http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cobb/kent.htm What sites and/or references can help me research the family and their related family lines and the related history back then and before? Thanks for your hard work and the help. Looking forward to hearing from you. Peace and blessings. Dolores Cobb Phifer

Hello Judith. Did any of your CHEWs live in Philadelphia PA? I used to live on Chew Avenue and the old Chew House still stands there. Cliveden was built as a summer home for Benjamin Chew and Elizabeth Oswald, Cliveden was completed in 1767 after four years of labor on a six-acre estate, in the heart of one of Philadelphia's oldest neighborhoods. Benjamin Chew (Born: 29 NOV 1722 at Maidstone, Anne Arundel Co., Maryland; Married: 12 SEP 1757 at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Died: 20 JAN 1810 at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)and Elizabeth Oswald (Born: ABT 1732 ; Married: 12 SEP 1757 at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Died: ABT 1819) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22chew%22%2C+Philadelphia%2C+pa%2C+%22Cliveden%22&btnG=Google+Search http://www.ronulrich.com/rfuged/nti02075.htm http://www.fieldtrip.com/pa/58481777.htm http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22Benjamin+Chew%22%2C+Elizabeth http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1-&ei=UTF-8&p=%22Benjamin+Chew%22%2c+Elizabeth http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv1-&ei=UTF-8&p=%22Benjamin+Chew%22%2c+Elizabeth http://www.cliveden.org/Default.htm http://www.cliveden.org/Pages/the_cook.htm Peace and blessings. Dolores Cobb Phifer

>I am trying to get it right. When transcribing parish registers for 1500/1600s I >have come across the word "daughter" looking like the word "dafter". That is so - quite common. You might think that some people were being a mite too clever, assuming a pronunciation from reading, because other aught words were pronounced f. (draught for one and Woughton in Bucks is pronounced Wuffton (though nearby Loughton is pronounced Low (like cow) ton) But this does seem a little far fetched. The name must simply have been pronounced 'aft' at one time, since the surname Dafter occurs. Strange, isn't it? The sort of similar sound 'dahter or darter' is also found in speech. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Good morning list I am trying to get it right. When transcribing parish registers for 1500/1600s I have come across the word "daughter" looking like the word "dafter". Was the letter "f" a shortened version of "ugh". In ignorance...............Mary from Ottawa, Cnada

hi liz thanks for your advise, I will check out the link and see how i go, regards karen adelaide

hello all, I have two wills I am trying to read 1843 and 1873 and was wondering if anyone could suggest any good sites re the setting out of wills at that time and alphabet examples for then. thanks karen

I think we have squeezed this about as far as is possible. The response has been very good  and I would like to say a big thank you to everyone who has helped. The meaning is now quite clear and it is better to admit that a few words are simply unreadable rather than resort to putting in guesses which happen to more or less make sense. The recent discussion "What do I do with the...." shows that opinions differ widely as to what is acceptable practice. Graham Pollett

Greetings! It seems to me that if you are to use 'fancy' fonts, what you are producing is a facsimile, rather than a transcription. Presumably you would include an accent on a vowel if the scribe had splashed a drop of ink above it - a graue mistake! As someone pointed out, the aim is to produce a *readable* version of the original document in the alphabet of our time. To use computer fonts that mimic the original (and will not stand the tests of time and of being transferred between computers) does not fit my idea of a transcription. Regards, Jerry

Guy, Totally agree with your point of view. Regards, Martyn

Hello, I have been following the avalanche of answers in this thread, but (unless I have missed it by mistake) no one so far has mentioned the matter of who the transcription is being done for. (Mary, the original questioner, did not refer to this, nor did she say who had told her that she was 'putting in too many "f"s.') If it's purely for your personal use, then I would say that it is entirely up to you, though you would probably want to include notes, either as you go along, or at the end, giving details of how you have dealt with such matters as obsolete characters, or at the very least indicating whether you have transcribed using modern characters, or using, wherever possible, the same characters as used in the original document. On the other hand, if you are transcribing as part of a project, surely the project organiser(s) will have provided guidelines. (If not, then perhaps a good idea would be to contact them about the problem). Regards, David Lamb (Paignton, Devon, UK) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Seal" <mseal@sympatico.ca> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: [OEL] What do I do with that extra "f" > I would like some advise please. For quite some time now I have been involved with transcribing parish registers and bishop's transcripts. The advise I was given in the beginning was to trascribe everything as is. (not the "s" which looks like "f" though. Consequently I have been writing Frances and February as they were originally written - ffrances and ffebruary. Now I am being told that I am putting in too many "f"s. > > So what do I do? Transcribe as it is written or leave off one of the "f"s? > > Regards..............Mary from Ottawa, Canada > > ______________________________

Perhaps that is the reason for transcriptions these days, however when I started transcribing it was the only method of obtaining a copy of the records. My reason for transcribing is to make inaccessible records easily accessible. If the person has access to the original then I believe they should read the original document rather than the transcript. Quite honestly I don't care how people transcribe, but was giving pointers to what I consider to be best practice gleaned from decades of experience. Whether the advice is discarded, used in part or followed implicitly is totally up to the person reading it, there is no law that says it must be followed. Cheers Guy norman.lee1 wrote: > Am I missing something, or is the main object of transcription of the old > handwritings an attempt to make them intelligble to those who don't know > these hands? I'm not promoting the complete modernisation of what is written > but to faithfully reproduce all the abbreviations would surely enforce the > average person to abandon the attempt to read the transcription or, if very > determined, to take up paleography in order to read it. In the latter case, > he/she might as well read the original document for him/herself. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Etchells" <guy.etchells@virgin.net> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:40 AM > Subject: Re: [OEL] What do I do with that extra "f" > > > >>There are a number of fonts available that allow a variety of Latin >>letters, secretary hand, and court hand etc. to be displayed on your >>computer some are free some are commercial and have to be bought. >> >>As an example Junicode (Junius Unicode)[a basic latin character set] >>allows not only letters with acutes, graves and circumflexes but also >>diaeresis, cedilla, macron, tilde, ligiture Ij, and a wide number of >>other diacritics and phonetic extensions. >> >>There is no reason to be limited to the basic font set that comes with >>your computer. >> >>It is not all plain sailing though as such fonts do not work in email >>and if used on websites create other problems, though these can be >>overcome with thought. >>Cheers >>Guy >> >>Ruth Barton wrote: >> >>>It is all well and good to transcribe exactly what is written if you are >>>doing it by hand but I am transcribing some letters that have some > > peculiar > >>>little curliques on the end of, usually abbreviations or number dates, >>>words that there are nothing even remotely resembling them on the >>>computer. So I just do the best I can. >>> >>>Now I have a question. What do you do if a word has been crossed out in > > a > >>>letter? I can't find any way to "line through" on my computer like I > > could > >>>on a typewriter. Most of the crossed out material is just a botched > > word > >>>or misspelling that he starts over and I just ignore it but don't know > > if > >>>that's what I should do or not. Ruth >> >>snip >>-- >>Wakefield, England >>http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts >>not promises! >>// >> >> >>==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== >>To contact the list administrator: >>OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com >> >> > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To UNSUBSCRIBE from list mode -- > Send the one word UNSUBSCRIBE to > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > > -- Wakefield, England http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts not promises! I use Archive CD Books in my research http://www.archivecdbooks.org http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/dh/ Whitefield Transcripts, Etch/ells Transcripts

For accents etc, try this: Start menu - Programs - Accessories - System Tools - Character map. Copy and paste works with e-mails (Outlook Express). Very handy, though it won't cover everything you want. Gordon Barlow > There are a number of fonts available that allow a variety of Latin > letters, secretary hand, and court hand etc. to be displayed on your > computer some are free some are commercial and have to be bought. > > As an example Junicode (Junius Unicode)[a basic latin character set] > allows not only letters with acutes, graves and circumflexes but also > diaeresis, cedilla, macron, tilde, ligiture Ij, and a wide number of > other diacritics and phonetic extensions. > > There is no reason to be limited to the basic font set that comes with > your computer. > > It is not all plain sailing though as such fonts do not work in email > and if used on websites create other problems, though these can be > overcome with thought. > Cheers > Guy

Am I missing something, or is the main object of transcription of the old handwritings an attempt to make them intelligble to those who don't know these hands? I'm not promoting the complete modernisation of what is written but to faithfully reproduce all the abbreviations would surely enforce the average person to abandon the attempt to read the transcription or, if very determined, to take up paleography in order to read it. In the latter case, he/she might as well read the original document for him/herself. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Etchells" <guy.etchells@virgin.net> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] What do I do with that extra "f" > There are a number of fonts available that allow a variety of Latin > letters, secretary hand, and court hand etc. to be displayed on your > computer some are free some are commercial and have to be bought. > > As an example Junicode (Junius Unicode)[a basic latin character set] > allows not only letters with acutes, graves and circumflexes but also > diaeresis, cedilla, macron, tilde, ligiture Ij, and a wide number of > other diacritics and phonetic extensions. > > There is no reason to be limited to the basic font set that comes with > your computer. > > It is not all plain sailing though as such fonts do not work in email > and if used on websites create other problems, though these can be > overcome with thought. > Cheers > Guy > > Ruth Barton wrote: > > It is all well and good to transcribe exactly what is written if you are > > doing it by hand but I am transcribing some letters that have some peculiar > > little curliques on the end of, usually abbreviations or number dates, > > words that there are nothing even remotely resembling them on the > > computer. So I just do the best I can. > > > > Now I have a question. What do you do if a word has been crossed out in a > > letter? I can't find any way to "line through" on my computer like I could > > on a typewriter. Most of the crossed out material is just a botched word > > or misspelling that he starts over and I just ignore it but don't know if > > that's what I should do or not. Ruth > snip > -- > Wakefield, England > http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts > not promises! > // > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > >

It is now, but it was not always so and still isn't across the board. Then there is the problem of copyright. A records office will always put a notice on the back of any photocopy provided and you should, at very least, ask permission to copy their document in your publication. They will not be favourable to you if you don't do this. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C.Christopher Glass" <chrisx@jccglass.fsnet.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] What do I do > > but I am transcribing some letters that have some peculiar > >little curliques on the end of, usually abbreviations or number dates, > > > Dont forget its easy to add scans of the original problem words as a > suppliment at the end > possibly along with definitions of unusual words > > chris Glass Ruislip Uk > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > >

In this case you have clearly misread the letters in the first place and so the mistake would still be there if you wrote ffabolla. This is a very good reason to get back to the original document wherever possible. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Etchells" <guy.etchells@virgin.net> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] What do I do with that extra "f" > So when we see ffabolla written in a parish register that should be > transcribed as Fabolla. > There is no possible chance of faded ink or decaying vellum or paper > disguised the fact that the intial letter had perished and that the ff > was really preceded by an I revealing the name to be Iffabolla or as we > would now say Isabella. > > It must be joy to only transcribe pristine records. ;-)) > Cheers > Guy > > > -- > Wakefield, England > http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts > not promises! > Archive CD Books have helped my research http://www.archivecdbooks.org > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~framland/CHURCH/church.htm > Churches & MIs. in the Wakefield Area > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > >

Fully agree that the 'change of mind' is well worth recording. It often shines light on the thoughts and feelings of the person writing the document and can bring to light some family situations or at least hint at them. If you are lucky enough to get a run of wills you can follow family feuds and quarrels as well as the opposite (I had the most wonderful short will in which a man left his wife a cow called Lovely). This description was not crossed out though. Of course, in the more official documents, crossings out can be just mistakes with no particular undertones, except perhaps that the clerk was in need of his dinner. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eve McLaughlin" <eve@varneys.demon.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] What do I do with that extra "f" > In message <a04310104bc651ed70434@[216.114.174.246]>, Ruth Barton > <mrgjb@sover.net> writes > >It is all well and good to transcribe exactly what is written if you are > >doing it by hand but I am transcribing some letters that have some peculiar > >little curliques on the end of, usually abbreviations or number dates, > >words that there are nothing even remotely resembling them on the > >computer. So I just do the best I can. > > > >Now I have a question. What do you do if a word has been crossed out in a > >letter? > Put in in place within double brackets (( )) or { } brackets - as long > as you explain at the front of your transcript what this means. Save > square brackets [ ] for glosses, where the trasncriber adds some > comment or remark. > Just once in a blue moon, first thoughts were better thoughts or at > least thoughts worth having > -- > Eve McLaughlin > > Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians > Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > >

There are a number of fonts available that allow a variety of Latin letters, secretary hand, and court hand etc. to be displayed on your computer some are free some are commercial and have to be bought. As an example Junicode (Junius Unicode)[a basic latin character set] allows not only letters with acutes, graves and circumflexes but also diaeresis, cedilla, macron, tilde, ligiture Ij, and a wide number of other diacritics and phonetic extensions. There is no reason to be limited to the basic font set that comes with your computer. It is not all plain sailing though as such fonts do not work in email and if used on websites create other problems, though these can be overcome with thought. Cheers Guy Ruth Barton wrote: > It is all well and good to transcribe exactly what is written if you are > doing it by hand but I am transcribing some letters that have some peculiar > little curliques on the end of, usually abbreviations or number dates, > words that there are nothing even remotely resembling them on the > computer. So I just do the best I can. > > Now I have a question. What do you do if a word has been crossed out in a > letter? I can't find any way to "line through" on my computer like I could > on a typewriter. Most of the crossed out material is just a botched word > or misspelling that he starts over and I just ignore it but don't know if > that's what I should do or not. Ruth snip -- Wakefield, England http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells The site that gives you facts not promises! //

Audrey, The latter is pretty much what I am dealing with, this man is writing from the battlefront during the American Civil War--I'm up to April 1862. Ruth At 10:03 AM +0000 2/28/04, norman.lee1 wrote: >Fully agree that the 'change of mind' is well worth recording. It often >shines light on the thoughts and feelings of the person writing the document >and can bring to light some family situations or at least hint at them. If >you are lucky enough to get a run of wills you can follow family feuds and >quarrels as well as the opposite (I had the most wonderful short will in >which a man left his wife a cow called Lovely). This description was not >crossed out though. Of course, in the more official documents, crossings out >can be just mistakes with no particular undertones, except perhaps that the >clerk was in need of his dinner. > >Audrey -- Ruth Barton mrgjb@sover.net Dummerston, VT

Sorry, but you are talking to a complete computer idiot. I have to get my son to spell check for me as I can't find the spell checker on the computer. I don't like all the picture thingys the computer has, I wish they would spell it out in plain English--1. Do this, 2. Do that. Computers are worse that Japanese cars which have picture symbols on the dashboard and I can never figure out what they are trying to tell me. Ruth At 8:40 AM +0000 2/28/04, Guy Etchells wrote: >There are a number of fonts available that allow a variety of Latin >letters, secretary hand, and court hand etc. to be displayed on your >computer some are free some are commercial and have to be bought. -- Ruth Barton mrgjb@sover.net Dummerston, VT

In message <403FD100.2010500@virgin.net>, Guy Etchells <guy.etchells@virgin.net> writes >So when we see ffabolla written in a parish register that should be >transcribed as Fabolla. no - we don't mix a long s up with an f, in the first place. or an e with an o -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society