Dear Everyone I realise that, once again, I've written a load of nonsense. Of course I meant to write that the Carlisle weaver was paid much less than my Metropolitan police constable, NOT the other way round. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow@candw.ky> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:16 AM Subject: [OEL] low pay, 1812 > >From my notes, the following snippet on Carlisle: 1812 riots over low pay > etc. (A weaver's wages had been reduced from 28/- for "working a piece of > gingham" to 11/6 less rent of machinery etc = net 7/5; house-rent, firing > etc cost 3/4 p.w., leaving 4/1 for food & clothing.) Amazing! > > Gordon > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

Hi everyone, I am transcribing a Militia list and need some help please. I have upoaded a scan of the problem and if you hover over the page an enlarger should pop up. If it doesn't I can email the scan. http://members.iinet.net.au/~suegar/militialist.jpg Can anyone make out the 18th line down from the left. It looks like William Cale but there are Cull and Cole families in this place but I haven't seen a Cale. Also need to know what is written after the name. As it is not his occupation I thought it may be a comment on why he couldn't be available. First thought it began with Mentially but now think it looks more like Martialley something. Many thanks in advance. Sue Mills.

Good Evening - Looks to be WILLIAM COLEAR MARTIALLING ....???? Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: S & G Mills [mailto:suegar@iinet.net.au] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 2:37 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Militia list help wanted Hi everyone, I am transcribing a Militia list and need some help please. I have upoaded a scan of the problem and if you hover over the page an enlarger should pop up. If it doesn't I can email the scan. http://members.iinet.net.au/~suegar/militialist.jpg Can anyone make out the 18th line down from the left. It looks like William Cale but there are Cull and Cole families in this place but I haven't seen a Cale. Also need to know what is written after the name. As it is not his occupation I thought it may be a comment on why he couldn't be available. First thought it began with Mentially but now think it looks more like Martialley something. Many thanks in advance. Sue Mills. ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

In message <005501c4179a$01f9d850$a9f0a1cd@preferred>, Gordon Barlow <barlow@candw.ky> writes >>From my notes, the following snippet on Carlisle: 1812 riots over low pay >etc. (A weaver's wages had been reduced from 28/- for "working a piece of >gingham" to 11/6 less rent of machinery etc = net 7/5; house-rent, firing >etc cost 3/4 p.w., leaving 4/1 for food & clothing.) Amazing! Cor what riches! Those textile workers didn't know they were born. An agricultural labourer was earning about 6 to 7s a week, IF he was in work (and that was a big if. There is an interesting comment by a local magistrate in 1830, sentencing a man who snared a rabbit on his farmer master's land, with no objection from the farmer. However, a local gent had leased the shooting rights over the farm for fun shooting and wanted the lot. Richard said his mother and the younger children were hungry, and he only earned 6s a week. The magistrate piped up 'Six shillings? Why I spend more than that on feeding my dog. But then, so I should, for HE is a valuable animal'. Richard got a fortnight in gaol. And Mum and the kids presumably had to do without even the 6s. > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Hi List Apologies for any problems. I was forced to change my email address due to 100 per day spam mail arriving. However forgot to UNSUBSCRIBE (from OLD address) before Re- SUBSCRIBING (with new) Fay

London, 1829/30, a police constable's pay was £1/1s. from which he had to pay 2s. a week for his uniform, finance his home and family, despite a general antipathy towards him degenerating into violence from time to time. Clearly he was paid much less than your Carlisle weaver but he had to risk his life and limb and that of his family. Have you looked at the price of bread as paid by the workhouse, or other poor relief, at the same period? It does sometimes help to put things into context. I think that, at this time, when weaving was being mechanised, handloom weavers who had been the aristocrats of the cotton manufacturing trade were losing their livelihoods or having them absorbed into the new weaving sheds of the cotton mills. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow@candw.ky> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:16 AM Subject: [OEL] low pay, 1812 > >From my notes, the following snippet on Carlisle: 1812 riots over low pay > etc. (A weaver's wages had been reduced from 28/- for "working a piece of > gingham" to 11/6 less rent of machinery etc = net 7/5; house-rent, firing > etc cost 3/4 p.w., leaving 4/1 for food & clothing.) Amazing! > > Gordon > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

You're not alone. A few nasties are coming down at the moment so beware. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fay McKenzie-Edmonds" <flmedmonds1934@ozemail.com.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: [OEL] apologies re unsubscribing > Hi List > Apologies for any problems. I was forced to change my email address due to 100 per day spam mail arriving. > However forgot to UNSUBSCRIBE (from OLD address) > before Re- SUBSCRIBING (with new) Fay > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

>Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows >but not probably as a farmer? >I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it >indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for >the market; no - a cow is a cow, not a bull. They kept a couple of cows in a town backyard, to milk for sale locally. if the cow went dry it was sent out to the country and swapped for another. They liked to have the water pump handy to eke out supplies. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

In message <0b3101c4164d$cd03fce0$0100007f@lovegrove>, Sandra Lovegrove <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> writes >Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in >Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal and coke >dealer". you/ve got to diversify to keep going, especially in a rather poor area. God send the coal dust didn't get into the milk. They kept cows in tiny back yards, in the most unlikely places. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Dear Sandra When it comes to Denmark Hill, it was still quite rural when I was a small child in the 1940s. By the 50s, the massive Bessemer Grange Estate (very large country house with a lot of land attached) was being built up with council housing. My auntie, uncle and cousins were among the first to move into one of these houses and moved in before the rest had been built or the roads properly made - they were still muddy tracks. We used to squeeze into holes in the fencing to have a look at Bessemer Grange and to take 'short cuts' across its land. (This was the Bessemer who pioneered modern steel production.) This was situated at the back of the Salvation Army College and on the way down to Hearn Hill. Of course, very nearby was Ruskin Park which contained the country home of John Ruskin's family. I have a feeling that Ruskin Park, which became a public park, survives. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > > their coal and coke requirements. > > > > No doubt. This LOVEGROVE was a member of a family of yeomen farmers; > his father and uncles left Berkshire to come to south London - or rather rural > Camberwell as it then was - and became small property developers ("improvers" as > this was called at the time!) There are many very handsome Georgian terraces in > Walworth/Camberwell; the Labour Party used to have its headquarters offices in > one of them on the main Walworth Road. A couple of the houses in one of the > original terraces in a side street in Walworth were probably built by this > family, and there is still a Lovegrove Street off the Old Kent Road, now a dirty > little run-down unpaved lane with motor repair shops, etc. > > However, this man really was a dairyman/cowkeeper. His 16 year-old son was a > "cheesemonger's assistant", presumably to the grocer/cheesemonger just 2 census > schedules further on. In the 1871 census he was a "Cowkeeper occupier of 10 > acres" so the area around Denmark Hill was still delightfully rural. > > SANDRA > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> > To: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk>; <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: 30 March 2004 15:05 > Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > > their coal and coke requirements. > > > > Audrey > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ >

>From my notes, the following snippet on Carlisle: 1812 riots over low pay etc. (A weaver's wages had been reduced from 28/- for "working a piece of gingham" to 11/6 less rent of machinery etc = net 7/5; house-rent, firing etc cost 3/4 p.w., leaving 4/1 for food & clothing.) Amazing! Gordon

Some of my lot were also Cheesemongers in Camberwell. They came from Carmarthenshire and some of the cousins made a lot of money in the grocery trade. But Henry George married Jennet Barrett from Carmarthen. At the time he was a tailor but when I catch up with him again on his death certificate he was cheesemonger in Church Street Camberwell. And in 1881 his son was continuing the business: his aunt, my gt gt grandmother was staying with him and the girl he married a month or two later was also there - so I Imagine she was there as a chaperone! I've recentlt caught upo with some of the cousins who are still farming in Carmarthenshire and they have a diary from 1873 recording a trip to London and visits to all his cousins - including those in Camberwell. Christopher Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > > their coal and coke requirements. > > > > No doubt. This LOVEGROVE was a member of a family of yeomen farmers; > his father and uncles left Berkshire to come to south London - or rather rural > Camberwell as it then was - and became small property developers ("improvers" as > this was called at the time!) There are many very handsome Georgian terraces in > Walworth/Camberwell; the Labour Party used to have its headquarters offices in > one of them on the main Walworth Road. A couple of the houses in one of the > original terraces in a side street in Walworth were probably built by this > family, and there is still a Lovegrove Street off the Old Kent Road, now a dirty > little run-down unpaved lane with motor repair shops, etc. > > However, this man really was a dairyman/cowkeeper. His 16 year-old son was a > "cheesemonger's assistant", presumably to the grocer/cheesemonger just 2 census > schedules further on. In the 1871 census he was a "Cowkeeper occupier of 10 > acres" so the area around Denmark Hill was still delightfully rural. > > SANDRA > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> > To: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk>; <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: 30 March 2004 15:05 > Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > > their coal and coke requirements. > > > > Audrey > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > >

>>Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal and coke dealer". SANDRA LOVEGROVE >>An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then... Audrey It is a fairly trite observation, but last time I visited Lambeth parts of it seemed the sort of places one might still find plenty of coke dealers, if one wanted. Gordon

> perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > their coal and coke requirements. > No doubt. This LOVEGROVE was a member of a family of yeomen farmers; his father and uncles left Berkshire to come to south London - or rather rural Camberwell as it then was - and became small property developers ("improvers" as this was called at the time!) There are many very handsome Georgian terraces in Walworth/Camberwell; the Labour Party used to have its headquarters offices in one of them on the main Walworth Road. A couple of the houses in one of the original terraces in a side street in Walworth were probably built by this family, and there is still a Lovegrove Street off the Old Kent Road, now a dirty little run-down unpaved lane with motor repair shops, etc. However, this man really was a dairyman/cowkeeper. His 16 year-old son was a "cheesemonger's assistant", presumably to the grocer/cheesemonger just 2 census schedules further on. In the 1871 census he was a "Cowkeeper occupier of 10 acres" so the area around Denmark Hill was still delightfully rural. SANDRA Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on http://www.lovegrove.org.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> To: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk>; <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 30 March 2004 15:05 Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > their coal and coke requirements. > > Audrey >

That's quite true - our milk was delivered - in bottles - by a Liverpool city cowkeeper in the mid 1960's. It was quite a sight to see cows being taken to pasture about half a mile away along city streets. In the winter they were kept in stalls. Now, in Chester, we garage our car in a yard once owned by such a cowkeeper. .. Elizabeth Atherton I wonder if the cowman was literally a keeper of cows which were kept in the city to provide milk. Christopher Richards

Thanks Liz. See what I've written to Roy. Both of these messages seem compatible, I'd say. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <emagar@hotkey.net.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > Greetings all, > > A cowkeeper was a dairyman I believe and not necessarily rural. There's a picture > of a cow-keeper's establishment in London on the Sainsbury museum site at > http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/museum/1869.htm > Click on the image to enlarge. > > Cheers, > > Liz > > snip > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

Just a thought - before milk was delivered in bottles I believe the milkman had a cart containing a container from which you filled your jug of milk. I wonder if the cowman was literally a keeper of cows which were kept in the city to provide milk. Not that I can remember it - the earliest I do remember was United Dairies horsedrawn milk floats which delivered milk in a bottle with a carboartd top. That was in the late 1940s in Kensington when the roads were still paved with wood blocks to reduce noise - but they were lethal when wet. Christopher Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: <emagar@hotkey.net.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > Greetings all, > > A cowkeeper was a dairyman I believe and not necessarily rural. There's a picture > of a cow-keeper's establishment in London on the Sainsbury museum site at > http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/museum/1869.htm > Click on the image to enlarge. > > Cheers, > > Liz > > snip > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > >

Audrey, Prior to attending college in the 60's I worked on a dairy farm for a year, milking cows, and I was definitely referred to as a "cowman"! Regards, Martyn "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> wrote: Hello Roy Don't we still have cowmen? As far as I know, they are just farmworkers that specialise in the care of the cows on the farm where they are working and the farm and cows may well not belong to them. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: FW: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy [mailto:roy.cox@btinternet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:14 PM > To: 'norman.lee1' > Subject: RE: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > Good Evening All - > > http://www.motco.com/map/81006/ > > If you know the address, this map will show it. > If this page 81006 is wrong, go to the home page http://www.motco.com/ And > navigate to what you might think it is. > > VERY GOOD site > > Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows > but not probably as a farmer? > I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it > indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for > the market; I think the word would apply to bulls and yearlings mainly, > rather than cows, as they would be not be sold unless it were for beef ('ole > Beef)! The London markets at that time may not have included young milk cows > I think? > > Lambeth had become a borough by the creation of an act of parliament in > 1832; in 1861 it must have been a growing concern as Audry says, which is > reflected in my 1870 gazetteer with 3 pages of it's description. The > manufacturing establishments were very numerous and very various, employing > the greater part of its inhabitants. > > There were also wharves for lime, coal and timber, and piers to accommodate > river steamers. > > Kind Regards > > June & Roy > http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: norman.lee1 [mailto:norman.lee1@virgin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:05 PM > To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > their coal and coke requirements. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra Lovegrove" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:24 PM > Subject: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > > Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in > > Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal > > and > coke > > dealer". > > (NB: "Cowkeeper" is definitely correct: this was previously his sole > > occupation.) > > > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on > http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH

Greetings all, A cowkeeper was a dairyman I believe and not necessarily rural. There's a picture of a cow-keeper's establishment in London on the Sainsbury museum site at http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/museum/1869.htm Click on the image to enlarge. Cheers, Liz snip

Hello Roy Don't we still have cowmen? As far as I know, they are just farmworkers that specialise in the care of the cows on the farm where they are working and the farm and cows may well not belong to them. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" <roy.cox@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: FW: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy [mailto:roy.cox@btinternet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:14 PM > To: 'norman.lee1' > Subject: RE: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > Good Evening All - > > http://www.motco.com/map/81006/ > > If you know the address, this map will show it. > If this page 81006 is wrong, go to the home page http://www.motco.com/ And > navigate to what you might think it is. > > VERY GOOD site > > Cowman is a quite interesting title, don't you think - Obviously keeps cows > but not probably as a farmer? > I've come across this "Job Description" several times and I wonder if it > indicates a person with a place where animals could be kept in readiness for > the market; I think the word would apply to bulls and yearlings mainly, > rather than cows, as they would be not be sold unless it were for beef ('ole > Beef)! The London markets at that time may not have included young milk cows > I think? > > Lambeth had become a borough by the creation of an act of parliament in > 1832; in 1861 it must have been a growing concern as Audry says, which is > reflected in my 1870 gazetteer with 3 pages of it's description. The > manufacturing establishments were very numerous and very various, employing > the greater part of its inhabitants. > > There were also wharves for lime, coal and timber, and piers to accommodate > river steamers. > > Kind Regards > > June & Roy > http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: norman.lee1 [mailto:norman.lee1@virgin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:05 PM > To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > An observation on the location as well as the occupation(s) - from what I > remember of Lambeth, who would have thought that such a short time ago > (historically speaking) a place could change so much! I was more familiar > with the Lambeth of the 1960s and it was certainly on its way down then > although, like many of the London suburbs at the time, you could see signs > of the glories of yesteryear. What is more, these glories would have > postdated the 1860s of the man you mention with most of the houses probably > dating from 1880-1910. The time you mention must have been when, in the > neighbouring parish, the Camberwell Beauty was still flourishing. But, > perhaps the upper middle class housing development had already begun and > your man was supplying some of these larger prestigious households with > their coal and coke requirements. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandra Lovegrove" <sandra@lovegrove.org.uk> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:24 PM > Subject: [OEL] unusual occupation reprised > > > > Further to my recent posting about the "baker and coal dealer" in > > Nottinghamshire, how about this is in Lambeth 1861: "Cowkeeper, coal > > and > coke > > dealer". > > (NB: "Cowkeeper" is definitely correct: this was previously his sole > > occupation.) > > > > SANDRA LOVEGROVE > > > > Researching LOVEGROVEs in all places and at all times. > > Please do visit the LOVEGROVE Information Centre on > http://www.lovegrove.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH >