Thursday 22 April 2004 07:25 GMT Daylight Time Good morning;- Thank you for the contributions and I will study them later today. In the meantime you might like to see the welcome and informative response from the House of Lords [ and quick ] Alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Subj: RE: Act of Parliament 1731 or 1733  Date: 19/04/2004 12:03:31 GMT Daylight Time From: HLRO@parliament.uk To: AlanDell@aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details) Dear Mr Dell,   Thank-your for your enquiry.  There was an Act passed in 1730 which may be what you mean.   Public Act, 4 George II, c. 26, with the following title: An Act that all Proceedings in Courts of Justice within that Part of Great Britain called England, and in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, shall be in the English Language. [our ref: HL/PO/PU/1/1730/4G2n32]   This was followed in 1732 by two further Acts:   Public Act, 6 George II, c. 6: An Act for obviating a Doubt which may arise upon an Act made in the fourth Year of His present Majesty's Reign, intituled, An Act that Proceedings in the Courts of Justice within that Part of Great Britain called England, and in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, shall be in the English Language, so far as the same doth or may relate to the Court of the Receipt of His Majesty's Exchequer, or to any Members or Branches thereof.   Public Act, 6 George II, c. 14: An Act for the more effectual preventing frivolous and vexatious Arrests, and for the more easy Recovery of Debts and Damages in the Courts of Great Sessions in the Principality of Wales, and in the Court of Assize in the County Palatine of Chester, and for the obviating a Doubt which has arisen upon an Act made in the fourth Year of His present Majesty's Reign, intituled, An Act that all Proceedings in Courts of Justice, within that Part of Great Britain called England, and in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, shall be in the English Language so far as the same Act doth or may relate to the Court of Justice holden within the same Principality, and for explaining and amending the said Act.   If you are interested in these Acts, Public Acts are usually published and may be found in large reference libraries.  Alternatively you can visit us and see them here - we are open Mon-Fri, 9:30-5:00, please contact us in advance to make an appointment.  Or we can supply photocopies at a cost of 30p per sheet plus postage if you can be specific about which Acts you want.   For your information, there is an online catalogue of all the Acts we hold since 1497 which you can search to see if there are any of interest to you.  The website address for this catalogue is: http://www.a2a.org.uk To restrict your search to Acts of Parliament only, go to the Extended Search and choose 'Parliamentary Archives; Legislation' in the A2A Theme box.  Put the term you want to search for in the Keyword or Phrase box.  (You may have to use your imagination to think how an Act would have been titled).      Yours sincerely, Mari Takayanagi (Ms) Archivist The Parliamentary Archives House of Lords Record Office London SW1A 0PW Tel: +44 (0)20 7219 3074 Fax: +44 (0)20 7219 2570 hlro@parliament.uk www.parliament.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: AlanDell@aol.com [mailto:AlanDell@aol.com] > Sent: 18 April 2004 04:59 > To: hlro@parliament.uk > Subject: Act of Parliament 1731 or 1733 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Sunday 18 April 2004  04:55 GMT Daylight Time > > ' no more Latin ' > > I have been informed that a parliamentary act of > 1731 or 1733 forbad ? the use of latin in record keeping > such as manorial rolls. > > Plenty of mentions of such an act but despite some hours > of searching I cannot find it > > help !! > > thank you > > Alan Dell > >                          14th May 2005 > Kent History Federation one-day Conference >          Edenbridge      www.evmt,org.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Might the first word be Cheshire with the r missing???? Lyn B

It looks a bit like Chedle but the ending certainly doesn't look right. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Lee [mailto:mlhaley@nor.com.au] Sent: 20 April 2004 23:17 To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Help with deciphering birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK Good morning, I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html Thanks to anyone who can help. Lee In Australia mlhaley@nor.com.au ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To contact the list administrator: OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com

Good Morning All - Very Difficult this one! I have managed to enhance the image quite well and the first 2 letters are either CL or CH. My Gazetteer lists either Chilton or Cliddon but the 2nd word escapes me. Haven't got as Scottish gazetteer which is not much help I'm afraid! If you would like a copy of the enhancement Lee I will send it. Also tried it as a negative image which says much the same thing Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: norman.lee1 [mailto:norman.lee1@virgin.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:43 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OEL] Help with deciphering birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK Think it's Lancashire. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <mlhaley@nor.com.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: [OEL] Help with deciphering birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK > Good morning, > > I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK > on the 1851 census. > > This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the > image to load. > > http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html > > Thanks to anyone who can help. > > Lee > In Australia > mlhaley@nor.com.au > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH

Audrey, Many thanks for the info on pricing of bequests. Your comments on the place name are intriguing. I had transcribed the first word partially as Llanbatho??? If you compare the 7/8th letters with the 'th' in the writers 'the's' and more so in his 'remayneth's' they are almost identical. If you compare it with the 'w[hi]ch's' it does not seem to be the same. Which is why I went for Lanbath..... I do not seek to defend a view in opposition to another but merely try to explain my confusion. The rest of the word looks like 'orne' but could easily be 'owe'. The second word is totally confusing but appears to me to start with a capital V or D. When you consider the number of Llan........ places thare are in Wales and the Borders and then factor in phonetic spelling it is highly unlikely I will ever know conclusively where this place is. 'Best guess' is the best I could hope for. Incidently - point your browser at www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk then in the bottom right hand corner enter SO137457 and go to find Llanbachowey: 1km SW of Llanbedr: it seems to be a single building place which would explain your difficulty in finding it. Thanks for the push in this direction. Perhaps, if you have the time, you could help me understand your reasoning. As a very green newcomer I would appreciate the advice. Many thanks Steve

Dear Steve Don't know if you received any replies regarding the price given to the sheep and the other cattle remaining in the hands of ..... . This refers to the practice of hiring out animals to others so that they might have their produce and any young that they may produce would also belong to the person hiring the animal. A cow is often used this way. It's a way of the owner having an income from the animal without having to maintain it and the benefit to the one hiring is clear. This almost certainly the reason for giving a value to the sheep that is hired out so that a reasonable rent can continue to be paid for the animal. On a different tack - did you see the message I wrote to list regarding the place name? In case you didn't, I am copying it below. "Can't remember who wanted a transcription of what now but have just had a look at my Welsh Place Name and their Meanings book. I found Llan Bach Howey. If you join Llanbach and follow it by Howey, then you have the nearest approximation to what the letters say in the document. What do you all think? Unfortunately, I can't find it on the map or in the index to my trusty gazeteer. By the way, it means 'church of river bed of r. Hywi. Have just looked for Howey and found it in Powys, near Llandindrod Wells. I hope this helps someone. I find it strange that it's in my Welsh names book but not on the map. Perhaps it's too small for the scale but it should figure in modern times, one should think, or why else put it in the book?" Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Cadd" <stevecadd@tesco.net> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 8:55 AM Subject: [OEL] Will of John Cadde of Herefordshire > Dear List, > > Would you be kind enough to assist me with a few words in the will of John Cadde of Little Hereford. > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved37.html > > They are mostly placenames and names of people. > > However, there are one or two questions arising from the documents. > > 1. A phrase is used: "lones and slayes": the common sense answer is that it is a debt of some kind but what does "slayes" mean? > > 2. In a number of places the term " w[hi]ch remayneth in the handes of..." is used and in one place it is qualified by "... by bond...". Can anyone explain these terms? > Is it just a way of detailing debts or goods owing? > > Finally. > > 3. One bequest is priced up. > > "Item I give and bequeathe unto Ellinor Balden of Orleton widowe tenn yearlinge sheepe at the price of three shillinge six pence a peece w[hi]ch remayneth in the hands of Richard Cooke of the parrishe of middleton". > > What is the significance of giving a price to the bequest? > It is the only one of quite a few similar bequests. > > Thankyou > > Steve Cadd, > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Sorry about this but I, too, have read the wrong line. I have to say that I haven't a clue except that the first word looks like Cluthie or Clathie. Is it worth looking in Scotland? A gazeteer may help. Sorry again. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <mlhaley@nor.com.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: [OEL] Help with deciphering birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK > Good morning, > > I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. > > This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. > > http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html > > Thanks to anyone who can help. > > Lee > In Australia > mlhaley@nor.com.au > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Sorry, wrong line. I'm looking again... Liz Quoting Lee <mlhaley@nor.com.au>: > Good morning, > > I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. > > This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. > > http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html > > Thanks to anyone who can help. > > Lee > In Australia > mlhaley@nor.com.au > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Looks like Lancaster to me. Compare the s with that in Yorkshire, Manchester. Liz in Melbourne Quoting Lee <mlhaley@nor.com.au>: > Good morning, > > I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. > > This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. > > http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html > > Thanks to anyone who can help. > > Lee > In Australia > mlhaley@nor.com.au

Good morning, I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html Thanks to anyone who can help. Lee In Australia mlhaley@nor.com.au

Think it's Lancashire. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee" <mlhaley@nor.com.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: [OEL] Help with deciphering birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK > Good morning, > > I wonder if anyone can help decipher the birthplace of Elizabeth CLARK on the 1851 census. > > This is the link to view the image, it takes a short time for the image to load. > > http://rmhh.co.uk/identify4.html > > Thanks to anyone who can help. > > Lee > In Australia > mlhaley@nor.com.au > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > To contact the list administrator: > OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com > >

Hi We've all heard of the way this office was used from 1750 onwards to escape from the House of Commons but can anyone tell me the date when the office was first created for its original purpose of removing outlaws from the Chiltern forests? Kind regards Leigh Driver

From what I can tell, most documents were already in English by this date and considerably earlier too. This act must have been a case of reinforcing existing practice, as is often the case. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" <roy.cox@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [OEL] No more Latin ! > Good Morning - > > As a matter of interest, it was Medieval Latin according to my sources. > Some documents were written in English before the dates in question, but > 1733 was the year I think when the great majority of all official documents > were being completed in English. > > The year when it became a requirement by law was 1732 I believe, that all > government documents had to be written in English but I am unable to trace > the actual Act's date; this of course included parish registers and manorial > records. As an aside to this, it was not until 1754 onwards, that all > marriages had to be performed in Church of England churches or chapels, > excepting those of Quakers and Jews! > > Best I can offer at present! > > Kind Regards > > June & Roy > http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: AlanDell@aol.com [mailto:AlanDell@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:30 AM > To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [OEL] No more Latin ! > > Monday 19 April 2004 09:15 GMT Daylight Time > > Good morning, > > 1731 or 1733 is given in various reference books as being the date that > Latin ceased to be used in any document such as a manorial roll and it it is > said that it is by Act of Parliament. > > I have yet to discover which one and to be able to quote it would be to > close off a particular piece of research. > > I refuse to give in [ lol ] and would therefore appreciate a word from the > wise, > > Thank you very much > > Alan Dell > > > 14th May 2005 > Kent History Federation one-day Conference > Edenbridge www.evmt,org.uk > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

FOLLOW UP! Just found this in my History of the English people between the years 1712 to 1742 and probably after 1730 - "A bill of great value enacted that all proceedings in courts of justice should henceforth be in the English language" at the time when Sir Robert Walpole was known as the first of our Peace Ministers and the first of our Financiers! Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: Roy [mailto:roy.cox@btinternet.com] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:39 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [OEL] No more Latin ! Good Morning - As a matter of interest, it was Medieval Latin according to my sources. Some documents were written in English before the dates in question, but 1733 was the year I think when the great majority of all official documents were being completed in English. The year when it became a requirement by law was 1732 I believe, that all government documents had to be written in English but I am unable to trace the actual Act's date; this of course included parish registers and manorial records. As an aside to this, it was not until 1754 onwards, that all marriages had to be performed in Church of England churches or chapels, excepting those of Quakers and Jews! Best I can offer at present! Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: AlanDell@aol.com [mailto:AlanDell@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:30 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] No more Latin ! Monday 19 April 2004 09:15 GMT Daylight Time Good morning, 1731 or 1733 is given in various reference books as being the date that Latin ceased to be used in any document such as a manorial roll and it it is said that it is by Act of Parliament. I have yet to discover which one and to be able to quote it would be to close off a particular piece of research. I refuse to give in [ lol ] and would therefore appreciate a word from the wise, Thank you very much Alan Dell 14th May 2005 Kent History Federation one-day Conference Edenbridge www.evmt,org.uk ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

Good Morning - As a matter of interest, it was Medieval Latin according to my sources. Some documents were written in English before the dates in question, but 1733 was the year I think when the great majority of all official documents were being completed in English. The year when it became a requirement by law was 1732 I believe, that all government documents had to be written in English but I am unable to trace the actual Act's date; this of course included parish registers and manorial records. As an aside to this, it was not until 1754 onwards, that all marriages had to be performed in Church of England churches or chapels, excepting those of Quakers and Jews! Best I can offer at present! Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: AlanDell@aol.com [mailto:AlanDell@aol.com] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 5:30 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] No more Latin ! Monday 19 April 2004 09:15 GMT Daylight Time Good morning, 1731 or 1733 is given in various reference books as being the date that Latin ceased to be used in any document such as a manorial roll and it it is said that it is by Act of Parliament. I have yet to discover which one and to be able to quote it would be to close off a particular piece of research. I refuse to give in [ lol ] and would therefore appreciate a word from the wise, Thank you very much Alan Dell 14th May 2005 Kent History Federation one-day Conference Edenbridge www.evmt,org.uk ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH

Good Morning All - http://www.linotype.com/1847-1847-1847/home.html This may interest some - look for "Voluta Script" ! Kind Regards June & Roy http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm

Monday 19 April 2004 09:15 GMT Daylight Time Good morning, 1731 or 1733 is given in various reference books as being the date that Latin ceased to be used in any document such as a manorial roll and it it is said that it is by Act of Parliament. I have yet to discover which one and to be able to quote it would be to close off a particular piece of research. I refuse to give in [ lol ] and would therefore appreciate a word from the wise, Thank you very much Alan Dell 14th May 2005 Kent History Federation one-day Conference Edenbridge www.evmt,org.uk

Dear Listers, Please could I thank everyone for their suggestions regarding this document. The general opinion seems to be that the key word is a unit of measure. I will be explore this line of enquiry further, time for a spot of Field Work ! Regards, Steve Baggaley

Hi All Can't remember who wanted a transcription of what now but have just had a look at my Welsh Place Name and their Meanings book. I found Llan Bach Howey. If you join Llanbach and follow it by Howey, then you have the nearest approximation to what the letters say in the document. What do you all think? Unfortunately, I can't find it on the map or in the index to my trusty gazeteer. By the way, it means 'church of river bed of r. Hywi. Have just looked for Howey and found it in Powys, near Llandindrod Wells. I hope this helps someone. I find it strange that it's in my Welsh names book but not on the map. Perhaps it's too small for the scale but it should figure in modern times, one should think, or why else put it in the book? Audrey

Hello All I take note of Martyn's definition. Just one possibility to mention though. Have you thought of looking at the stange/stonge in relation to the Cheshire large measure where an acre was around 2.4 statute measure? Wales and Cheshire meet at the 'top end'. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "mjcl" <mjcl@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unit of Measurement > George, > > Joy Bristow in her glossary states : > > stang/stong - rood of land or at > > http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictS.html > > > stang > a traditional Welsh unit of land area generally equal to 3240 square yards, 0.6694 acre, or 0.2709 hectare > > Hope this helps, > > Best regards, > > Martyn > > > > GCH <gch@freedomnames.co.uk> wrote: > Looking at an account of lands belonging to an ancestor dated c. 1580 I came > accross a measuremnt of land of one acre and half a stonge. > > Does anyone know what a "Stonge" was and how many Stonges were in an acre? > > George > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >