And a very good evening to all - Thought horses were vegetarians:- ))) Kind Regards June & Roy (SANHS Member No 1066) http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: Lyn Boothman [mailto:annys@boothman27.fsnet.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:28 PM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [OEL] Horsemeat Beth It might have been horse meat as such, but it is probably more likely to be "meat for the horse" i.e. food for the horse which he had riden to Arundel to get to the visitation. Lyn B ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To UNSUBSCRIBE from list mode -- Send the one word UNSUBSCRIBE to OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com

Hi Beth This was "meat for the horse" not horse flesh to be eaten - ie the keep for Robert Treadcroft's horse when he went to Arundel. Kind regards Polly Rubery List owner: MIDMARCH-L@rootsweb.com A genealogy and local history list covering the Counties of Brecon, Hereford, Monmouth, Shropshire, Stafford and Worcester ENG-HEREFORD-L@rootsweb.com ROWBERRY-L@rootsweb.com ROWBERRY/RUBERY ONS - GOONS #278 rowberry@one-name.org http://www.rowberry.org Webmaster for the Herefordshire Family History Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukhfhs/index.html

Beth It might have been horse meat as such, but it is probably more likely to be "meat for the horse" i.e. food for the horse which he had riden to Arundel to get to the visitation. Lyn B

In the churchwardens' accounts for Horsham, Sussex (1632/3) is this entry: "It. Pd. Robert Treadcroft which he payd for horsmeate at Arrundell at the Visetation iij s" Robert Treadcroft was a vintner who supplied wine for the communion to the parish church in other entries in the churchwardens' accounts. If anyone knows what use the horsemeat was put to by the church I would be grateful for an explanation. At only 3 s. it probably wasn't a large quantity of horsemeat but it might have been the Spam of its day. For comparison, he was paid £3 8 s. for wine for the whole year 1641/2. Beth

In message <002801c4358b$b546aa50$a32d8351@KFGriffiths>, Keith Griffiths <kgriffiths5000@btinternet.com> writes >>From the fair number of wills I have, I notice that the handwriting of the >registered wills from the Prerogative Court is much better than >those of the Consistory and Archdeaconry Courts. Is this just a coincidence >or is there a story to tell here? It doesn't always work. Thw writing was that of legal clerks, some of whom used a good neat hand which is reasonably legible. Others showed off by adding swirls and squiggles for no reason, and these, while looking fine as a piece of art, can be difficult to decipher, ioslating the letter from the mess of decoration. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Good Morning Keith and All - A very interesting observation indeed, I don't come into contact with all that many docs so I would not be able to offer anything on this, but I eagerly "Watch This Space" and have setup a "Watch Folder" - Kind Regards June & Roy (SANHS Member No 1066) http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: Keith Griffiths [mailto:kgriffiths5000@btinternet.com] Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 7:05 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Handwriting >From the fair number of wills I have, I notice that the handwriting of >the registered wills from the Prerogative Court is much better than those of the Consistory and Archdeaconry Courts. Is this just a coincidence or is there a story to tell here? ~~ Keith Griffiths --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 04/05/2004 ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== Going away for a while? Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com

I would have thought it would be a better more highly paid class of clerks. After all, surely the two provinces would have had the pick of the bunch when it came to their staff? Each diocese seems to have had different systems of copying too. At Lichfield, probate documents are not copied into books or continuous rolls. They are each copied invidividually and stored in bundles tied with pink tape. Occasionally they are not copied at all and the wills and inventories are the originals. These are a great help as you can identify more easily the 'unofficial solicitors' in your locality by the handwriting. What is more, the witnesses are always given in these cases besides the signature or mark of the testator. I believe the provinces had all their wills copied and the inventories appear, for the most part, to be lost - a great pity in my opinion. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Griffiths" <kgriffiths5000@btinternet.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 7:05 AM Subject: [OEL] Handwriting > >From the fair number of wills I have, I notice that the handwriting of the > registered wills from the Prerogative Court is much better than > those of the Consistory and Archdeaconry Courts. Is this just a coincidence > or is there a story to tell here? > ~~ > Keith Griffiths > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 04/05/2004 > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > Going away for a while? > Don't forget to UNSUBSCRIBE! > OLD-ENGLISH-L-request@rootsweb.com > >

Dear Old E Folk Roy and I have been having a small correspondence on mead and the payment of rents in kind. I extended it slightly to the Easter or small tithes. We were wondering what was the experience and knowledge of the 'team' on this subject - not just mead but all other originally non-communted rents and tithes. Realising that even the great tithes must eventually have been commuted into cash, this way of paying rent must have become unwieldy at a fairly early date. Off the top of my head, I think that I remember part of a rent being paid in hens and certainly part of the small tithes for our parish was in hens' eggs as well as every seventh hive. This, I believe, must have been commuted in some way or another, perhaps more in the production of the hives rather than the hive itself. How the vicar ever acquired any honey from this parish, goodness only knows. I can't remember any hives in 50 years of probate inventories 1650-1700. Honey can't have figured too highly in this poor hilly! parish. Below is an extract of what I wrote to Roy a few days or so ago. "As far as the existence of honey and the production of mead is concerned - I'm not at all sure about the spread of production of this lovely drink. Wasn't it confined to monastic production? If so, this may have been an attempt by the former landlords of our ancient parish (whose abbey and convent was in Wales) to trawl their possessions in order to find sufficient raw material. After all, in a hilly country of comparatively poor tenants, how many would have had one hive, let alone seven? In all my reading of the local probate inventories, I have only come across the odd one. I do believe there were more pigs (swine) than bee hives and these were only in the possession of the more wealthy with them only having one apiece, except for the richest who had two. As I say, perhaps mead was a luxury product." Apologies for any overlap of argument or wordings. Now it's over to you Old English. Audrey

From the fair number of wills I have, I notice that the handwriting of the registered wills from the Prerogative Court is much better than those of the Consistory and Archdeaconry Courts. Is this just a coincidence or is there a story to tell here? ~~ Keith Griffiths --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.677 / Virus Database: 439 - Release Date: 04/05/2004

Unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <OLD-ENGLISH-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:00 AM Subject: OLD-ENGLISH-D Digest V04 #62

Good Evening All - Just received this extract from John Overholt - overholt@tiscali.co.uk which may be of some interest to some? John happened upon the tomes which were at a PRO sale and says that he would be happy to receive any queries regarding this extract or maybe the tomes themselves? QUOTE: "The late 18thC massive and immensely scholarly work known as Rymer's Foedera gives as the earliest known official/legal document written in English (actually early English) one dated at London on Oct.18, 1258. It is a charter of the King's (Henry III) on the reformation of the state of the realm. Of interest to many might be the 22 documents from 1069 - 1290 concerning Jews. One particularly odious one with strong overtones of Nazi Germany, is dated at Oxford March 30, 1218 whereby the King orders that all the Jews shall wear two white tablets upon their breasts, to distinguish them from Christians. I think "tablet" is an obsolete word derived from the Me.Latin tabula meaning a flat ornament worn about the person (OED) The final one dated at Westminster July 27, 1290 is the well-known safe conduct for the Jews commanded by the King (Edward I) to leave the realm with their wives, children and property. Prior to that there had been selective expulsions from various areas but this was the total expulsion". Rymer's Foedera 17 vols ( q JX 639) Compiled in the 18th century, this is a collection of State Papers, manuscripts and documents dating from the Norman Conquest to the 18th century. It was intended to focus on English foreign relations, but ended up being much broader and more eclectic in its final version. Syllabus (in English) of the documents contained in ... 'Rymer's Foedera' 3 vols ( DA 25.F1) Details the content of Rymer's Foedera. Kind Regards June & Roy (SANHS Member No 1066) http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm

Whichever way it is Christopher, I think they're wonderful. There aren't too many like these. The nearest we get in my local registers is an explanation by the incumbent of a blotting and smudging of an entry - (can't remember the exact wording now but here it is) [damage] caused by a little son of my daughter who is three years old and knows not what he is doing. This, of course, is badly paraphrased but shows the humanity of the man writing it, I think. I am not familiar with the diaries of Oliver Heywood and feel that I now must read them. Thank you for directing me towards them. All the best Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "CMR" <cmr1ch6rds@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' > I think Heywood's burials may refer to the diaries of Oliver Heywood, which > are also referred to as the Northowram register. He was a nonconformist > minister based in Northowram (Between Leeds and Halifax) who recorded > details of births, marriage and deaths of the members of his church and of > others. His reports are very like those quoted. They were published by J > Horsfall Taylor in 1882 and are available on CD-Rom from Colin Hinson. > I know them because they include the marriage of the earliest of my Whitaker > ancestors in 1674. > Christopher Richards > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:08 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' > > > Heywood is in Lancashire, very close to Bury and not far from Rochdale. It's > also not far from the Yorkshire border and Halifax (Yorkshire) is about > 10-12 miles away. > > I think these burials are wonderful and it's what local history is all > about, in my opinion - folk in all their colourful ways. How lovely to have > a parson who was prepared to write about his parishoners a little more than > just the usual report of each death. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow@candw.ky> > To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:44 AM > Subject: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' > > > > The items below were posted to another List. I don't know what "Heywood's > > Burials" is or was, but some of these are interesting > > > > > > George Boyl of Shelf was laughing, fell down in a palsey fitt in the > > > ffold May 8, at Jos Listers near Wibsey Slack 1693, aged > > > 75. He was of the same family near High Town that the > > > Earl of Burlington came from > > > > > > Jonas Rushworths wife of Denham gate was at Halifax on Satur- > > > day Jan 25 (78) came home, Went to bed, found herself cold, > > > askt her Husband to come to bed, put herself into his bosom, > > > instantly breathed her last > > > > > > Robt Leach poor and wicked, had been drinking on Lords Day, > > > came home, fell into raging fitts, died in 2 or 3 days Nov. > > > 1695 > > > Duke of Lauthersdale a Scotman a great Politician, an intimate > > > ffriend of the Kings, but no friend to his native country died > > > Aug. aged 70 > > > Mich. Wainhouse died of a surfeit got by Intemperance Oct 18, > > > at Cross in Halifax married James Mitchels widow aged 48 > > > Capt Taylors wife of Brighouse died Oct 28 buried in their > > > Garden with head upwards standing upright by her Husband, > > > Daughter, &c. Quakers, aged 60 > > > Mr. ffarran Vicar of Otley buried Dec 21, a fat man, aged 52 > > > Ottawell Whitworth buried at Rochdale June 15, aged 57, a > > > honest Professor > > > Mr. Tim. Root died at Hawden of a Dropsie June 24, aged 54. > > > Conform'd but languisht long not able to preach > > > Mr Ramsden of Crostone in Steneland a young man 1000£ p. an. > > > married Mr Calverleys Daughter lately, very fat, died at > > > Esheld, buried at Guisely July 25, aged 22 > > > Old Colonel Dukinfield (Sir Robt ffather died Sep., aged 74, a > > > usefull man > > > Mr. Brook of Smithouse in Lightcliffe buried at Burstall Jan 23, > > > a great Drinker, Jacobite, Scoffer at Presb. > > > John Wordsworth of Horbury that married Cambdena Kirby died > > > May 18, ag. 35, left 3 child. much debt, honest but shiftless > > > 1313 Mr Ramsden of Crowston that lived an exceeding dissolute > > > life, shortened his days by intemperance, dyed young Jan 30. > > > 1697-8 aged 27 bur. at Ealand feb 4. 97-8. > > > 1314 George Ramsden R.R. son buryed at Halifax feb 3, 1697-8 > > > a young man killed himself by intemperance > > > 1383 Mr Hanson parson of Thornton in Craven buryed there > > > Jan 26. 98-9 was grown exceeding fat; aged 40 > > > 1728 Richard Walker of Bingly, long melancholy, now better, > > > was found dead in his bed, buryed April 17, 1702, aged 64 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

I think Heywood's burials may refer to the diaries of Oliver Heywood, which are also referred to as the Northowram register. He was a nonconformist minister based in Northowram (Between Leeds and Halifax) who recorded details of births, marriage and deaths of the members of his church and of others. His reports are very like those quoted. They were published by J Horsfall Taylor in 1882 and are available on CD-Rom from Colin Hinson. I know them because they include the marriage of the earliest of my Whitaker ancestors in 1674. Christopher Richards ----- Original Message ----- From: "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' Heywood is in Lancashire, very close to Bury and not far from Rochdale. It's also not far from the Yorkshire border and Halifax (Yorkshire) is about 10-12 miles away. I think these burials are wonderful and it's what local history is all about, in my opinion - folk in all their colourful ways. How lovely to have a parson who was prepared to write about his parishoners a little more than just the usual report of each death. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow@candw.ky> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:44 AM Subject: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' > The items below were posted to another List. I don't know what "Heywood's > Burials" is or was, but some of these are interesting > > > > George Boyl of Shelf was laughing, fell down in a palsey fitt in the > > ffold May 8, at Jos Listers near Wibsey Slack 1693, aged > > 75. He was of the same family near High Town that the > > Earl of Burlington came from > > > > Jonas Rushworths wife of Denham gate was at Halifax on Satur- > > day Jan 25 (78) came home, Went to bed, found herself cold, > > askt her Husband to come to bed, put herself into his bosom, > > instantly breathed her last > > > > Robt Leach poor and wicked, had been drinking on Lords Day, > > came home, fell into raging fitts, died in 2 or 3 days Nov. > > 1695 > > Duke of Lauthersdale a Scotman a great Politician, an intimate > > ffriend of the Kings, but no friend to his native country died > > Aug. aged 70 > > Mich. Wainhouse died of a surfeit got by Intemperance Oct 18, > > at Cross in Halifax married James Mitchels widow aged 48 > > Capt Taylors wife of Brighouse died Oct 28 buried in their > > Garden with head upwards standing upright by her Husband, > > Daughter, &c. Quakers, aged 60 > > Mr. ffarran Vicar of Otley buried Dec 21, a fat man, aged 52 > > Ottawell Whitworth buried at Rochdale June 15, aged 57, a > > honest Professor > > Mr. Tim. Root died at Hawden of a Dropsie June 24, aged 54. > > Conform'd but languisht long not able to preach > > Mr Ramsden of Crostone in Steneland a young man 1000£ p. an. > > married Mr Calverleys Daughter lately, very fat, died at > > Esheld, buried at Guisely July 25, aged 22 > > Old Colonel Dukinfield (Sir Robt ffather died Sep., aged 74, a > > usefull man > > Mr. Brook of Smithouse in Lightcliffe buried at Burstall Jan 23, > > a great Drinker, Jacobite, Scoffer at Presb. > > John Wordsworth of Horbury that married Cambdena Kirby died > > May 18, ag. 35, left 3 child. much debt, honest but shiftless > > 1313 Mr Ramsden of Crowston that lived an exceeding dissolute > > life, shortened his days by intemperance, dyed young Jan 30. > > 1697-8 aged 27 bur. at Ealand feb 4. 97-8. > > 1314 George Ramsden R.R. son buryed at Halifax feb 3, 1697-8 > > a young man killed himself by intemperance > > 1383 Mr Hanson parson of Thornton in Craven buryed there > > Jan 26. 98-9 was grown exceeding fat; aged 40 > > 1728 Richard Walker of Bingly, long melancholy, now better, > > was found dead in his bed, buryed April 17, 1702, aged 64 > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

Heywood is in Lancashire, very close to Bury and not far from Rochdale. It's also not far from the Yorkshire border and Halifax (Yorkshire) is about 10-12 miles away. I think these burials are wonderful and it's what local history is all about, in my opinion - folk in all their colourful ways. How lovely to have a parson who was prepared to write about his parishoners a little more than just the usual report of each death. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Barlow" <barlow@candw.ky> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 6:44 AM Subject: [OEL] Fw: `Heywood's Burials' > The items below were posted to another List. I don't know what "Heywood's > Burials" is or was, but some of these are interesting > > > > George Boyl of Shelf was laughing, fell down in a palsey fitt in the > > ffold May 8, at Jos Listers near Wibsey Slack 1693, aged > > 75. He was of the same family near High Town that the > > Earl of Burlington came from > > > > Jonas Rushworths wife of Denham gate was at Halifax on Satur- > > day Jan 25 (78) came home, Went to bed, found herself cold, > > askt her Husband to come to bed, put herself into his bosom, > > instantly breathed her last > > > > Robt Leach poor and wicked, had been drinking on Lords Day, > > came home, fell into raging fitts, died in 2 or 3 days Nov. > > 1695 > > Duke of Lauthersdale a Scotman a great Politician, an intimate > > ffriend of the Kings, but no friend to his native country died > > Aug. aged 70 > > Mich. Wainhouse died of a surfeit got by Intemperance Oct 18, > > at Cross in Halifax married James Mitchels widow aged 48 > > Capt Taylors wife of Brighouse died Oct 28 buried in their > > Garden with head upwards standing upright by her Husband, > > Daughter, &c. Quakers, aged 60 > > Mr. ffarran Vicar of Otley buried Dec 21, a fat man, aged 52 > > Ottawell Whitworth buried at Rochdale June 15, aged 57, a > > honest Professor > > Mr. Tim. Root died at Hawden of a Dropsie June 24, aged 54. > > Conform'd but languisht long not able to preach > > Mr Ramsden of Crostone in Steneland a young man 1000£ p. an. > > married Mr Calverleys Daughter lately, very fat, died at > > Esheld, buried at Guisely July 25, aged 22 > > Old Colonel Dukinfield (Sir Robt ffather died Sep., aged 74, a > > usefull man > > Mr. Brook of Smithouse in Lightcliffe buried at Burstall Jan 23, > > a great Drinker, Jacobite, Scoffer at Presb. > > John Wordsworth of Horbury that married Cambdena Kirby died > > May 18, ag. 35, left 3 child. much debt, honest but shiftless > > 1313 Mr Ramsden of Crowston that lived an exceeding dissolute > > life, shortened his days by intemperance, dyed young Jan 30. > > 1697-8 aged 27 bur. at Ealand feb 4. 97-8. > > 1314 George Ramsden R.R. son buryed at Halifax feb 3, 1697-8 > > a young man killed himself by intemperance > > 1383 Mr Hanson parson of Thornton in Craven buryed there > > Jan 26. 98-9 was grown exceeding fat; aged 40 > > 1728 Richard Walker of Bingly, long melancholy, now better, > > was found dead in his bed, buryed April 17, 1702, aged 64 > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

And also interesting - extracted from Society newsletters and placed on the Angmering Society Web site at http://www.angmeringsociety.org.uk/ under Village History/other/ and : "Baptism: 20 November 1757 - James, son of Widdow Crossingham, sworn and confessed to have begotten by her late Husband's Son. Upon examining the Lad, he solemnly declared the Hussy attacked him on his Bed, first in her cloths, then naked. He did not comply. But afterwards She rushed into his Bed and seized the Premisses. Baptism: 3 April 1765 - William son of Anne Roberts by God Knows Who Baptism: 2 June 1763 - Sarah daughter of Elizabeth Tye who still remains un-Tyed Burial: 26 Feb 1764 - Marble Stone" :-) Liz in Melbourne, whose g5 grandmother was a Crossingham, quite probably related to the widdow's late husband! Quoting Gordon Barlow <barlow@candw.ky>: > The items below were posted to another List. I don't know what "Heywood's > Burials" is or was, but some of these are interesting > > > > George Boyl of Shelf was laughing, fell down in a palsey fitt in the > > ffold May 8, at Jos Listers near Wibsey Slack 1693, aged > > 75. He was of the same family near High Town that the > > Earl of Burlington came from > > > > Jonas Rushworths wife of Denham gate was at Halifax on Satur- > > day Jan 25 (78) came home, Went to bed, found herself cold, > > askt her Husband to come to bed, put herself into his bosom, > > instantly breathed her last > > > > Robt Leach poor and wicked, had been drinking on Lords Day, > > came home, fell into raging fitts, died in 2 or 3 days Nov. > > 1695 > > Duke of Lauthersdale a Scotman a great Politician, an intimate > > ffriend of the Kings, but no friend to his native country died > > Aug. aged 70 > > Mich. Wainhouse died of a surfeit got by Intemperance Oct 18, > > at Cross in Halifax married James Mitchels widow aged 48 > > Capt Taylors wife of Brighouse died Oct 28 buried in their > > Garden with head upwards standing upright by her Husband, > > Daughter, &c. Quakers, aged 60 > > Mr. ffarran Vicar of Otley buried Dec 21, a fat man, aged 52 > > Ottawell Whitworth buried at Rochdale June 15, aged 57, a > > honest Professor > > Mr. Tim. Root died at Hawden of a Dropsie June 24, aged 54. > > Conform'd but languisht long not able to preach > > Mr Ramsden of Crostone in Steneland a young man 1000£ p. an. > > married Mr Calverleys Daughter lately, very fat, died at > > Esheld, buried at Guisely July 25, aged 22 > > Old Colonel Dukinfield (Sir Robt ffather died Sep., aged 74, a > > usefull man > > Mr. Brook of Smithouse in Lightcliffe buried at Burstall Jan 23, > > a great Drinker, Jacobite, Scoffer at Presb. > > John Wordsworth of Horbury that married Cambdena Kirby died > > May 18, ag. 35, left 3 child. much debt, honest but shiftless > > 1313 Mr Ramsden of Crowston that lived an exceeding dissolute > > life, shortened his days by intemperance, dyed young Jan 30. > > 1697-8 aged 27 bur. at Ealand feb 4. 97-8. > > 1314 George Ramsden R.R. son buryed at Halifax feb 3, 1697-8 > > a young man killed himself by intemperance > > 1383 Mr Hanson parson of Thornton in Craven buryed there > > Jan 26. 98-9 was grown exceeding fat; aged 40 > > 1728 Richard Walker of Bingly, long melancholy, now better, > > was found dead in his bed, buryed April 17, 1702, aged 64 > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >

Good Morning - Dare I mention the modern-day expression? Perhaps not;- ) Kind Regards June & Roy (SANHS Member No 1066) http://www.btinternet.com/~roy.cox/index.htm -----Original Message----- From: emagar@hotkey.net.au [mailto:emagar@hotkey.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 12:07 AM To: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [OEL] Goose Month >From A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English, Eric Partridge,: goose-month - The period of a woman's confinement: coll[oquial]: late C.18-mid-19. Ex gander-month. gander-month - the month after childbirth, when in C.17-early 19 it was held excusable for the husband to err. Coll[oquial]: except in dial[ect] [1st citaation] Dekker, 1636, OED. On checking the OED for gander-month, it says this is an allusion to the gander's aimless wandering while the goose is sitting!! The husband was then referred to as a gander-mooner!! Cheers, Liz in Melbourne ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

Eve, Thanks very much Regards, Martyn Eve McLaughlin <eve@varneys.demon.co.uk> wrote: >"Item three Chests A groaning Chare & chushen 00 : 13 : 00" > >Any ideas on what a groaning chair was? one where a mother in the first stages of childbirth sat - it was adapted for support with the 'cushen' -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

From A Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English, Eric Partridge,: goose-month - The period of a woman's confinement: coll[oquial]: late C.18-mid-19. Ex gander-month. gander-month - the month after childbirth, when in C.17-early 19 it was held excusable for the husband to err. Coll[oquial]: except in dial[ect] [1st citaation] Dekker, 1636, OED. On checking the OED for gander-month, it says this is an allusion to the gander's aimless wandering while the goose is sitting!! The husband was then referred to as a gander-mooner!! Cheers, Liz in Melbourne

On Mon, 3 May 2004 19:18, mjcl wrote: > The following is an extract from a Probate Inventory of a resident of the > parish of Rustington, Sussex, dated 1670 - > > "Item three Chests A groaning Chare & chushen 00 : 13 : 00" > > Any ideas on what a groaning chair was? Chair When members of the House of Commons and other debaters call out "Chair," they mean that the chairman is not properly supported, and his words not obeyed as they ought to be. Another form of the same expression is, "Pray support the chair." Groaning chair. The chair in which a woman is confined or sits afterwards to receive congratulations. Similarly "groaning cake" and "groaning cheese" are the cake and cheese which used to be provided in "Goose month." "For a nurse, the child to dandle, Sugar, soap, spiced pots, and candle A groaning chair, and eke a cradle" Poor Robin's Almanack, 1676. http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/233.html Regards Trevor Rhodes =========================================== Powered by Linux - Mandrake 9.2 Registered Linux user # 290542 at http://counter.li.org Registered Machine #'s 186951 = Mandrake Club Silver Member Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. gpg --recv-keys --keyserver hkp://pgp.mit.edu 94C29CF3 =========================================== 19:33:29 up 3 days, 3:24, 1 user, load average: 2.30, 2.14, 2.10 -- Never mud wrestle with a pig.. you get dirty and the pig enjoys it! Never try to teach a pig to dance. You waste your time and annoy the pig. Theoretically pigs can fly if propelled with enough force.

>"Item three Chests A groaning Chare & chushen 00 : 13 : 00" > >Any ideas on what a groaning chair was? one where a mother in the first stages of childbirth sat - it was adapted for support with the 'cushen' -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society