>'als' is an abbreviation of 'alias', which means 'otherwise'. It appears in old >records almost exclusively to introduce an alternative surname (though I have >once or twice seen it used for an alternative forename), which is why in modern >English it has become a noun meaning a substitute name - as you said. I don't >think I've never seen it used it to indicate alternative names of a place, >though there's really no logical reason why it shouldn't have been. It is quite a frequent usage, which I am sure you will started finding from tomorrow. Lavendon als Landon, Ravenstone als Raunston, Wyrardisbury als Wraysbury. Aston Sandford als Aston Blank als Cold Aston in Bucks, for example. (*The last has almost as many aliases as houses) > >My first reaction would be that in this case it means that Francis Lloyd's >residence was in a place called Cockshutt otherwise Crossmeare. But if you say >these were two separate places The logical explanation is that they were not then totally distinct places, but that one included the other -possibly one was the parish and one a hamlet in the parish. This again is often found, binding together places which on the map appear to be distinct. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Sorry about that - I don't know why the URL came through so strangely It should have read _http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk_ (http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk) without all the dashes and brackets before and after. Kind regards Leigh

Hi As promised - my very poor stab at the latin translation _http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk/liz.html_ (http://www.brandon-heritage.co.uk/liz.html) I know it's full of errors so if anyone has the time to go through it quickly for me I'd be extremely grateful. It does look big I'll admit but when it comes down to it a lot of it consists of the same phrase repeated many times so only needs translating the once. Thanks again to all who've offered help and suggestions thus far. Kind regards Leigh

Hello Leigh, I've had some experience of documents of this sort, so I thought I'd have a go at the first paragraph and a bit of the second. You'll find the results below. I've set out the transcript from the website first (without all the irritating square brackets and line indicators), then my translation follows. I found it rather more difficult than I expected. I hesitate to say this, but I don't think the difficulties were wholly a result of my own inadequacies as a Latin scholar - I suspect the transcript is not entirely accurate in all parts. I've indicated a few places where I think it may have been misread, or the Latin abbreviations mistakenly extended (in these cases my translation usually gives what I suspect the original to have said). But the problem may also be that my experience is in the records of Midlands manors - perhaps East Anglian records followed different conventions. You might find it useful to read a number of printed translations of medieval and 16C manorial records from that part of the world and note the way they habitually describe land before making a start on the Brandonferry records. Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics PS If you get a better explanation from anyone else of any of the bits which puzzled me I'd be grateful to hear it. ----------------------------- "Brandonferry in comitato Suffolki Supervisus manorii predicti ibidem inceptus mense Maii Anno regni Dominae regine nunc* Elizabeth xxxi tenementa** per sacramentos Roberti Fletcher, Johannis Gryme, Johannis Deresley, Johannis Hemyngton, Nicholai Skevington, Richardi Capp, Ambrosis Ashwell, Roberti Clark, Roberti Towler, William Edwardes, Rogeris Arriott, Ambrosis Fenner, Radulphi Sexton, Johannis Lane, Henri Colman, Johannis Shipley, Johannis Colman, Thomas Styaney, Petri Largent et Christoferi Richardson tenenus*** Manorii predicti ad hoc iuramentum quam prediligenter# exminatoem diversorum campe rotulus current Rental et ab evidence eiusdem Manorii Johanne Browne Arartorie### Supervisor general Domine Regini in comitato predicto campus vocatur Brightfield alius Brydithfield que est unus quatuor camporum ibidem vocatur Infieldes" Brandonferry in the county of Suffolk. A survey of the aforesaid manor taken there in the month of May in the 31st year of the reign of our* lady Queen Elizabeth taken** by the oath of Robert Fletcher [...etc, etc...] tenants*** of the aforesaid manor sworn to this, also by diligent examination of the various [fields, the roll of the current rental]## and from the evidences [ie deeds] of the same manor by John Browne esquire Surveyor general of the Lady Queen in the aforesaid county. The field called Brightfield otherwise Brydithfield which is one of the four fields there called In-fields. * possibly should be 'nostre' not 'nunc'? ** should be 'tenta' not 'tenementa'? *** should be 'tenentes' not 'tenenus'? # should be 'per diligenter'? ## none of this makes sense - I think at least part of it has been mistranscribed. Possibly it ought to be '...of various court rolls, the current rental and ...' ### should be 'armiger' not 'arartorie'? "Quarentena terrae ibidem vocatur Toughfenhill furlonge abutta super Toughe Fenne brinkes versus borientem tenendum cum eadem occid[entem* Margaret Walden vidua tenet libere de hoc feodo iii rodas terrae nuper Lodovici Talbot Robert Clark tenet native** iii rodas terrae nuper Johannis Dobber vocatur Shardlowes versus austrem percell*** unum plenarie terrae# in duaberis pertibus iacens in diversis peciis ibidem nuper Roberti Clark ut patent copia## datus anno regine Domine Regine nunc Elizabeth xiii Et reddit inde per annus iii shillings vocatur iustyce landes nuper Thomas Lemme Richardus Deresley tenet libere de hoc feodo unam rodam demidiam terrae vocatur Peppers nuper Gilde Sanctae trinitacis de Lynn Regis iuxta### Rector ibidem habet unam rodam demidiam terrae de glebis ecclesie sue iuxta Dominica Margaret Walden habet unam rodam demidiam terrae nuper Talbotte iuxta " A furlong there called Toughfenhill Furlong abuts on Tough Fen Brinks towards the north [holding with them westwards.] Margaret Walden widow holds freely from this fee 3 roods of land late of Lewis Talbot. Robert Clark holds by native [tenure] 3 roods of land late of John Dobber called Shardlowes towards the south, part of one full [?land] lying in two parts in various pieces there late of Robert Clark as appears by a copy dated 13 Elizabeth, and he renders therefor 3 shillings a year, it is called Justice Lands late Thomas Lemme. Richard Deresley holds freely from this fee 1 1/2 roods of land called Peppers late of the Guild of Holy Trinity of Kings Lynn beside. The rector there has 1 1/2 roods of land of his church's glebe beside. Lady Margaret Walden has 1 1/2 roods of land late of Talbot beside. * possibly a mis-transcription ** ie copyhold (which developed out of native, ie villein or serf tenure). *** should be 'parcell'? # this doesn't make sense - a land was usually a double-sized strip containing about 1/2 acre in area ## ie a copy of the court roll, ie a copyhold title deed ### this use of 'iuxta' is puzzling. Do they mean Deresley's strip is beside the rector's one?

Hi Leigh, As this is a fairly hefty chunk (to say the least!!), why not try the Latin words list. Its quite quiet but one of the subscribers might like to get their teeth into this one. (LATIN-WORDS-L@rootsweb.com) All the best Martyn Loveys YeagerLA@aol.com wrote: Hi Would some kind listmember, whose grasp of Elizabethan Latin is far better than mine, be able to offer some help translating a field survey for me? There is much repetition so although the file looks hideously long much of it is the same thing over and over and also a lot of personal names which obviously need not be translated. Just something to get me started would be of great help. I've had a stab at it but how I passed my O'level Latin is a mystery because I'm not getting very far. The file in question is a Survey of Brydithfield in the Manor of Brandon, Suffolk and can be found at _http://www.ku.edu/history/ftp/brandon.html_ (http://www.ku.edu/history/ftp/brandon.html) Many thanks Kind regards Leigh Driver ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== To contact the list administrator: OLD-ENGLISH-admin@rootsweb.com

<<I'm not sure of the meaning of this abbreviation - is it "alias" or "also"? Are they interchangeable? I always thought that "alias" meant a substitute name. In my case, the beginning of a will dated 1 April 1691 says "I Francis Lloyd of Cockshutt als Crosemeare...". You can see an image at: http://hometown.aol.com/amilb36287/myhomepage/photo.html The "als" seems to have the abbreviation line on top of the word. Cockshutt and Crosemere are two separate towns, even if very close (half a km), so the meaning seems to be "and". Would "alias" have this meaning too?>> Hello Alejandro, 'als' is an abbreviation of 'alias', which means 'otherwise'. It appears in old records almost exclusively to introduce an alternative surname (though I have once or twice seen it used for an alternative forename), which is why in modern English it has become a noun meaning a substitute name - as you said. I don't think I've never seen it used it to indicate alternative names of a place, though there's really no logical reason why it shouldn't have been. My first reaction would be that in this case it means that Francis Lloyd's residence was in a place called Cockshutt otherwise Crossmeare. But if you say these were two separate places then it must mean that his connection was to both Cockshutt and Crossmeare simultaneously. This might be because (i) he lived in one of them but was also somehow substantially connected to the other, or (ii) one of them was a sub-unit of the other (perhaps one was a parish, the other a hamlet within that parish), so that it was possible to belong to both simultaneously. Regards, Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics

<<I have acquired some of these acts of parliament for the 1700s. They relate to family settlements of real and personal estates and are a fertile source of genealogical information. Does anyone know why it was necessary to use parliament?>> Hello Keith, Acts of Parliament were used when somone wanted to do something which the general law did not allow to be done. For example, a family settlement created a couple of generations earlier might be preventing the current head of the family from selling the family estate (which of course was exactly what the settlement had been designed to do) - he could get round that by obtaining a private Act empowering him to sell notwithstanding the settlement. Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics

Thank you to all who helped me with the two words "arckes" and "womtoes" I realise after Ann suggested womb rope that I had misread the letter "b" for "t" but the last part is not rope, but I'm sure that the definition of a girth strap would be correct. I was very interested in the descriptions of the "arks". It's great to have such knowledgeable and helpful persons in the list. Regards Liz Waring

In a message dated 17/08/2004 09:08:14 GMT Standard Time, norman.lee1@virgin.net writes: Hi Leigh Can I just suggest a good book that will help you with general Latin translation of an historical type. It's a book by Eileen Gooder called 'Latin for Local History'. It's available in paper back and has been going a long time. I believe it's even used in some universities now but is also extremely easy to use and understand. It gives examples of various documents and would be of great help to anyone looking at old documents of varying kinds. I am not trying avoid translating the document you have on the web site - just giving you a title I'm sure you would find useful in future. Audrey Hi Audrey Thanks - I'd much rather be able to translate such documents myself as this is only the first field of ten and I know I'm going to have to do the other nine on my own! But having spent the last few days using various books and online Latin - English dictionaries plus my own rusty education from 25 years ago I was beginning to get so frustrated! I'm getting individual words but together they don't seem to make much sense. The most helpful book I've got in my own collection is 'A Latin Glossary for Family and Local Historians' by Janet Morris which I've found quite useful - I suppose that I'm just not sure that I'm stringing it all together in the correct form. When I get a chance later I'll upload my feeble attempt to my website so you can have a look at how far I've got. I'll certainly try to find the book you mention though. Thanks again Kind regards Leigh

White Horse Inn and carcinoma, not sure at all about the middle one but is it a place name, suggest G-ss-ton. Lyn B

Hi Would some kind listmember, whose grasp of Elizabethan Latin is far better than mine, be able to offer some help translating a field survey for me? There is much repetition so although the file looks hideously long much of it is the same thing over and over and also a lot of personal names which obviously need not be translated. Just something to get me started would be of great help. I've had a stab at it but how I passed my O'level Latin is a mystery because I'm not getting very far. The file in question is a Survey of Brydithfield in the Manor of Brandon, Suffolk and can be found at _http://www.ku.edu/history/ftp/brandon.html_ (http://www.ku.edu/history/ftp/brandon.html) Many thanks Kind regards Leigh Driver

In message <15.3058cd82.2e52227e@aol.com>, AMilb36287@aol.com writes >I'm not sure of the meaning of this abbreviation - is it "alias" or "also"? >Are they interchangeable? I always thought that "alias" meant a substitute name. alias, meaning otherwise (known as) > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

David, 1. White Horse Inn 2. Journeyman 3. Carcinoma Hope this is of use - I suspect others may have replied already! Best regards, Martyn Loveys David Parkes <d_parkes@yahoo.com> wrote: Good morning. I was wondering whether I could ask y'all to have a quick look at the following excerpts from an ancestor's death cert of 1866 and give me your opinion as to some dodgy handwriting. 1. Location of death. At the following URL, you will find an excerpt which shows the location of death. The town name is 'Smethwick', and the DOD 11th April, 1866. However, the text between '1866' and 'Smethwick' is a cause for debate, hence my seeking your counsel. Thoughts as to what it might be? http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29734 2. Husband's Info. The following URL has another excerpt from the same death cert. It states the name of the husband to be John FANTHOM, a Carpenter. However, what is the word that lies directly beneath, 'Carpenter'? Any takers? http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29735 3. Cause of death. The same URL as that in number 2 above, only this time, the column which details the cause of death. What is the first word in the phrase, " of Stomach. Certified"? Again, the URL is, http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29735 As always, many thanks for your help and take care. Cheers, Parkesy ===== David S. Parkes Senior Business Technology Manager/Consultant Office: 972.731.9243 Mobile: 469.337.6986 Fax: 928.244.2565 E-mail: david_parkes@comcast.net ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== OLD-ENGLISH Web Page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/

... as to your second query, I would guess (though it must remain just a guess) that it reads 'journeyman'. Hope this helps IB

Surely the text reads 'White Horse Inn'. Whether the lady herself died in the aforesaid establishment, or whether the coroner was in session there (visiting coroners often operated from inns) is not clear. IB

Just thought. Another word, more modern, for this is girth. This will sometimes appear written in inventories as garth but the context should tell you whether it concerns 'horse funiture' or something else. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron and Liz Waring" <edwaring@bigpond.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: [OEL] another word > Hi All, > > I have another word which stumps me - so am putting it here in the context and perhaps I can get some help with that also. It appears thus > > Item in trace and collars saddles and "womboes" . > > Many thanks > Liz > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

I'm not sure of the meaning of this abbreviation - is it "alias" or "also"? Are they interchangeable? I always thought that "alias" meant a substitute name. In my case, the beginning of a will dated 1 April 1691 says "I Francis Lloyd of Cockshutt als Crosemeare...". You can see an image at: http://hometown.aol.com/amilb36287/myhomepage/photo.html The "als" seems to have the abbreviation line on top of the word. Cockshutt and Crosemere are two separate towns, even if very close (half a km), so the meaning seems to be "and". Would "alias" have this meaning too? Thank you! Alejandro Milberg Boston, MA

Probably wantow or something like it. I don't think I've ever seen this word written in any 'official' way and so don't know how to spell it myself in 'modern' English. It is another word for belly band, the strap that ties the saddle to the horse. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron and Liz Waring" <edwaring@bigpond.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: [OEL] another word > Hi All, > > I have another word which stumps me - so am putting it here in the context and perhaps I can get some help with that also. It appears thus > > Item in trace and collars saddles and "womboes" . > > Many thanks > Liz > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

Hi Liz You have probably been told by now that this is an ark which is a wooden box with an arched lid. There are various wooden boxes which you will find in inventories and ark is one of the most popular, particularly for keeping food. Sometimes the lid was shaped more like the roof of a house and sometimes with a more curved arch. Other boxes are described as coffers, chests and just plain boxes. You will doubtless find many different spellings for all of these but be prepared for any you see to read phonetically as one of this selection. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron and Liz Waring" <edwaring@bigpond.com> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: [OEL] a word in an inventory > Hi, Has anyone come across a word, which I have found in an inventory which appears to be spelled arcke? It appears about 3 times in this inventory and I can't find anything like it in the dictionary. It definitely isn't arche, as everywhere else the h is written in the old form of 1615. > Many thanks > Liz Waring > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

Good morning. I was wondering whether I could ask y'all to have a quick look at the following excerpts from an ancestor's death cert of 1866 and give me your opinion as to some dodgy handwriting. 1. Location of death. At the following URL, you will find an excerpt which shows the location of death. The town name is 'Smethwick', and the DOD 11th April, 1866. However, the text between '1866' and 'Smethwick' is a cause for debate, hence my seeking your counsel. Thoughts as to what it might be? http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29734 2. Husband's Info. The following URL has another excerpt from the same death cert. It states the name of the husband to be John FANTHOM, a Carpenter. However, what is the word that lies directly beneath, 'Carpenter'? Any takers? http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29735 3. Cause of death. The same URL as that in number 2 above, only this time, the column which details the cause of death. What is the first word in the phrase, "<Something> of Stomach. Certified"? Again, the URL is, http://www.ancientfaces.com/family/photos/details/index.cfm?29735 As always, many thanks for your help and take care. Cheers, Parkesy ===== David S. Parkes Senior Business Technology Manager/Consultant Office: 972.731.9243 Mobile: 469.337.6986 Fax: 928.244.2565 E-mail: david_parkes@comcast.net