----- Original Message ----- From: norman.lee1 To: GaryIvoDe@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] childe Harold Thanks everyone. I knew you'd put me right. I wasn't even in a position to conflate anything Mat, knowing so little. It's nice to have such a knowledgeable lot of friends to point me in the right direction. I shall now enjoy the website and the concert all the more. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: GaryIvoDe@aol.com To: norman.lee1@virgin.net Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] childe Harold http://website.lineone.net/~ssiggeman/chp/ Hi Audrey, This seems to be a good site for Childe Harold. Hope you enjoy Berlioz. Gary

Hi Audrey, Byron's Childe Harold was fictitious. From a quick check on the web, it seems that Berlioz took the name from Byron, but the romantic dreamer of Harold in Italy was Berlioz himself. See http://hector.ucdavis.edu/Berlioz2003/ProgNotes/068Harold.htm For Childe Harold's Pilgramage, see http://website.lineone.net/~ssiggeman/chp/ Enjoy the performance... Cheers, Liz in Melbourne Quoting "norman.lee1" <norman.lee1@virgin.net>: > Dear Folks > > Can anyone help my ignorance by telling me who was the Childe Harold of the poem "Childe Harold > to the dark tower came"? I am also just about to go to a performance of Harold in Italy by > Berlioz and assume that this is the same person. I would just very much like to know who he was. > Anybody know? > > Audrey > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

<<Can anyone help my ignorance by telling me who was the Childe Harold of the poem "Childe Harold to the dark tower came"? I am also just about to go to a performance of Harold in Italy by Berlioz and assume that this is the same person. I would just very much like to know who he was. Anybody know?>> Hello Audrey, you're conflating two different poems, Robert Browning's 'Childe Roland to the dark tower came' (published in 1855) and Byron's 'Childe Harold's Pilgrimage' (1812-1818). The Childe Harold of Byron's poem wasn't an historical person, except in so far as he is generally thought to have been partly based on Byron himself; the poem describes a journey through Mediterranean regions and was written shortly after Byron himself had undertaken such a journey, and in the fourth canto Byron drops Childe Harold and speaks in the first person, giving his own thoughts (and its original title was even Childe Biroun), but Byron himself denied this, and anyway it was more a satirical commentary on contemporary life than autobiographical travel writing. I don't think the name Childe Harold is even historical - as far as I am aware Byron invented it. It was intended to be an Anglo-Saxon one - Byron was writing at the time when historical Romanticism was the fashion (Scott was writing about Saxons and Normans in Ivanhoe, etc), 'child' being a (now obsolete) Anglo-Saxon word meaning something like 'young aristocrat'. I'm afraid I know nothing of Berlioz's work. Browning's Childe Roland wasn't an historical person either - the poem's title comes from a line of a nonsense song spoken by the character Edgar in Shakespeare's King Lear (though Shakespeare is supposed to have taken the name from an old Scottish ballad and fairy tale called 'Childe Roland and Burd Ellen'). Matt Tompkins

Dear Folks Can anyone help my ignorance by telling me who was the Childe Harold of the poem "Childe Harold to the dark tower came"? I am also just about to go to a performance of Harold in Italy by Berlioz and assume that this is the same person. I would just very much like to know who he was. Anybody know? Audrey

<<Can anyone tell me what the medieval 'right of gallows' involved? Does it mean that whoever held this right had it within their power to pass a death sentence on wrongdoers under their jurisdiction?>> Hello Leigh, yes, a lord who had the right of gallows had the right to hang criminals convicted by his court. However it wasn't just any criminals - the right extended only to people convicted of theft, and then only if they had been caught red-handed, with the goods on their person. And most lords only had the right to hang thieves who had been caught within their jurisdiction - only a few had the additional right to hang those caught outside their jurisdiction. The right is usually referred to by its contemporary names, 'infangenetheof' (the right to hang thieves caught within the jurisdiction) and 'utfangenetheof' (the right to hang thieves caught outside the jurisdiction) - sometimes spelled infangthief and utfangthief. Not all lords had the right, it had to have been granted by the crown at some point in the past. Those who had it tended to be the big ones - earls, barons, abbots, priors, boroughs etc (yes, quite a few monastic lords had the right, and exercised it). It was quite a valued right, partly because it gave prestige and power to a lord who could exercise it, but mostly because the lord had the right to confiscate all the property of the convicted thief. Matt Tompkins Blaston, Leics

Hi Can anyone tell me what the medieval 'right of gallows' involved? Does it mean that whoever held this right had it within their power to pass a death sentence on wrongdoers under their jurisdiction? Thanks Leigh Driver

Eve, Many thanks for your translation, which makes sense in the context. Much appreciated. Wendy Atkin ----- Original Message ----- From: Eve McLaughlin To: Wendy Atkin Cc: OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Marginal note in PCC will 1576 In message <000201c4a973$f71ad300$375d2b50@Wendy>, Wendy Atkin <kinword2@tiscali.co.uk> writes >Can anyone make a stab at a translation of this for me, please? It's a marginal >note on a PCC will dated 1576. I think it concerns a further grant of probate >in 1578. I'm not sure I've transcribed it correctly: > > roughly, the gist is likely to be > ><S?>ecundo Bothi 1578 (could be a date, but can't think of a month which could be read as Bothi) unless it could be Notari (by a certain lawyer) > Lata erat it has been borne/carried/reported > (that there exists>? >< >( ) pro validitat cuisdam Eadicalli erdem a certain codicil to the same (will) which needs proving > Sui > >(a ie) et (Fesuit) mensis Junii p[re]dict' and this was done in the month of June aforesaid > > > >Wendy > > > > >==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== >THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Does anyone have access to the Devon Muster Roll of 1569? I am particularly interested in the complete entry for Simon Hargest of Ugborough. Many thanks, Bob Argus

Not sure about Pha but Radus must be Radolphus. Pha could be Philadelphia? Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Argus" <rargus@bigpond.net.au> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 2:53 AM Subject: [OEL] Latin Abbreviations > Could anyone tell me what the English translations of the following > (abbreviated?) Latin Christian names are? They appear in sixteenth century > church records for christenings in Devonshire: Radus (male) and Pha > (female). > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Bob Argus > > > > > > ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== > OLD-ENGLISH Web Page > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > >

In message <200410040153.i941rQWl016068@mail.rootsweb.com>, Bob Argus <rargus@bigpond.net.au> writes >Could anyone tell me what the English translations of the following >(abbreviated?) Latin Christian names are? They appear in sixteenth century >church records for christenings in Devonshire: Radus (male) Radulphus,=Ralph >and Pha probably Philippa -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Donald, you can find the Remonstrance at http://www.constitution.org/eng/conpur043.htm and reading it makes it clear that they were supporting Parliament. Lyn B

Could anyone tell me what the English translations of the following (abbreviated?) Latin Christian names are? They appear in sixteenth century church records for christenings in Devonshire: Radus (male) and Pha (female). Many thanks, Bob Argus

In message <000201c4a973$f71ad300$375d2b50@Wendy>, Wendy Atkin <kinword2@tiscali.co.uk> writes >Can anyone make a stab at a translation of this for me, please? It's a marginal >note on a PCC will dated 1576. I think it concerns a further grant of probate >in 1578. I'm not sure I've transcribed it correctly: > > roughly, the gist is likely to be > ><S?>ecundo Bothi 1578 (could be a date, but can't think of a month which could be read as Bothi) unless it could be Notari (by a certain lawyer) > Lata erat it has been borne/carried/reported > (that there exists>? >< >( ) pro validitat cuisdam Eadicalli erdem a certain codicil to the same (will) which needs proving > Sui > >(a ie) et (Fesuit) mensis Junii p[re]dict’ and this was done in the month of June aforesaid > > > >Wendy > > > > >==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== >THREADED archives for OLD-ENGLISH: >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Can anyone make a stab at a translation of this for me, please? It's a marginal note on a PCC will dated 1576. I think it concerns a further grant of probate in 1578. I'm not sure I've transcribed it correctly: <S?>ecundo Bothi 1578 Lata erat < >( ) pro validitat cuisdam Eadicalli erdem Sui (a ie) et (Fesuit) mensis Junii p[re]dict’ Wendy

I am unable to make out if those who signed the Remonstrance of July-August 1642, were supporters of the king, or were those who favoured Parliament. I would be very grateful for advice. Don Tomkinson

In message <20041002155630.93299.qmail@web86503.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>, mjcl <mjcl@btinternet.com> writes >Hello list, > >Quick query - > >>From probate inventory 1648, West Dean, West Sussex - > >"Item a gosoping Cupp 0 - 1 - 0" > >Can anyone please help with what this is? > >I know that a gossip was a godparent - does this have any connection. yes - though whether it is a christening cup given by the testator's godparents or one bouyght in readiness for handing to a godchild is uncertain/ Traditionally, they were small and silver -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

John Thanks very much for confirming that. Very prompt reply! Regards, Martyn John <overholt@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Yes, it was a christening cup - present from godparent John ---------------------------------------- My Inbox is protected by SPAMfighter 1761 spam mails have been blocked so far. Download free www.spamfighter.com today! ==== OLD-ENGLISH Mailing List ==== SEARCHABLE archives for OLD-ENGLISH: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=OLD-ENGLISH

Yes, it was a christening cup - present from godparent John ---------------------------------------- My Inbox is protected by SPAMfighter 1761 spam mails have been blocked so far. Download free www.spamfighter.com today!

Hello list, Quick query - From probate inventory 1648, West Dean, West Sussex - "Item a gosoping Cupp 0 - 1 - 0" Can anyone please help with what this is? I know that a gossip was a godparent - does this have any connection. Regards, Martyn

Many thanks Matt. I'm grateful for your information. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tompkins, M.L." <mllt1@leicester.ac.uk> To: <OLD-ENGLISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 6:36 PM Subject: RE: [OEL] MARRIAGE OF CLERGY