Agreed. I just hope they found the will in time. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Nunn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved 1787 Will of John Rothery > Dear Audrey, > > Would it be a fear of being buried alive? Therefore 8 days to make sure I > am > really dead? > > regards > > Lyn > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:19 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] Unsolved 1787 Will of John Rothery > > >> Dear List >> >> I am interested to see Will's transcription of a problem on the unsolved >> page. I have to confess not to having looked at this but, taking his >> reading >> as correct, the main puzzlement for me is the delay in burying the body. >> I >> understood that the first obligation of the executor(s) was to bury the >> body >> of the deceased after which came payment of debts to the crown and the >> lord >> of the manor followed by other debts of varying categories. Of course, >> this >> doesn't sit very comfortably with the practice of lying in state for some >> important deceased people and maybe this person was one such, whose body >> was >> required by others to lie in state? >> >> Can anyone suggest how this request should be reconciled with burial >> customs? >> >> Audrey >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "William Johnson" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:21 PM >> Subject: [OEL] Unsolved 1787 Will of John Rothery >> >> >>> I'm not sure if this has been solved yet, but the unknown words are >>> simply: >>> >>> "that I may be buried on the eighth day after my decease" >>> >>> http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved39.html >>> >>> Will >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: >>> 19/09/2006 >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006 >

In message <[email protected]>, Norman Lee <[email protected]> writes >Dear List > >I am interested to see Will's transcription of a problem on the unsolved >page. I have to confess not to having looked at this but, taking his reading >as correct, the main puzzlement for me is the delay in burying the body. I >understood that the first obligation of the executor(s) was to bury the body >of the deceased after which came payment of debts to the crown and the lord >of the manor followed by other debts of varying categories. Of course, this >doesn't sit very comfortably with the practice of lying in state for some >important deceased people and maybe this person was one such, whose body was >required by others to lie in state? Some people had a fear of being buried alive. perhaps because of being in a coma or in a deep narcotic induced sleep (opium being the only palliative they knew). It happened very rarely, but naturally, any cases of sudden recovery got maximum publicity and made sick folk panic that it could happen to them. Coffins being opened and found to have deep scratches where the 'body' had tried to escape were heard of (one occurrence, multiplied?). One man insisted on being buried with a bell in his coffin, another with a rope attached to a bell outside it. The 8 days delay was a practical time - if you had not come round in a week, then probably you were not going to. One farmer in Herts demanded to be placed in a coffin on the beams of his barn, for at least a year, which both gave him time to recover and reduced the offence to others. He was left for around 10 years than finally buried. -- Eve McLaughlin Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society

Dear List I am interested to see Will's transcription of a problem on the unsolved page. I have to confess not to having looked at this but, taking his reading as correct, the main puzzlement for me is the delay in burying the body. I understood that the first obligation of the executor(s) was to bury the body of the deceased after which came payment of debts to the crown and the lord of the manor followed by other debts of varying categories. Of course, this doesn't sit very comfortably with the practice of lying in state for some important deceased people and maybe this person was one such, whose body was required by others to lie in state? Can anyone suggest how this request should be reconciled with burial customs? Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Johnson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 4:21 PM Subject: [OEL] Unsolved 1787 Will of John Rothery > I'm not sure if this has been solved yet, but the unknown words are > simply: > > "that I may be buried on the eighth day after my decease" > > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved39.html > > Will > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006 > >

I'm not sure if this has been solved yet, but the unknown words are simply: "that I may be buried on the eighth day after my decease" http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved39.html Will

Apologies for asking a question you all probably know the answer to, but somewhere I came across the more or less standard opening for old wills, commending one's self to one's maker etc etc. I have lost the reference and I would appreciate it if anyone could give me a pointer in the right direction. The period I have in mind is 17th Cent. Many Thanks Tom Morris

Dear Audrey Can't answer your first question but for the second if you are using outlook express (and probably outlook) you need to go to tool, options, send and you will see a box ticked that says to automatically add addresses to address book when you reply - untick the box. regards Lyn in Oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:33 PM Subject: [OEL] a question off topic but also a request > Dear Listers > > My main question is about a radio serial. Radio 4 is putting out a Paul > Temple mystery and they have used a similar format to that which was used > around 40-50 years ago. Of course, this a pure nostalgia kick but the > question is, who were the main characters played by? Francis Durbridge > wrote the Paul Temple mysteries and Marjorie Westbury played his wife, > Steve, but who played Paul Temple. Not remembering this is really getting > on my nerves. > > Of course, this is not of earth shattering importance and nothing at all > to do with family or local history. My next problem is a rather basic one. > I see to have around four email addresses in my email address book, all > put in automatically by the act of replying to messages. This is probably > a message for Judith but if anyone at all knows the answer, I should be > very glad to be informed. > > Audrey > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Lyn Thank you for your remedy. My main problem is not the adding of the addresses to my address book but more a case of identifying which is which now. Perhaps I'm being a bit alarmist since the reorganising of Rootsweb and the site. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Nunn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] a question off topic but also a request > Dear Audrey > > Can't answer your first question but for the second if you are using > outlook > express (and probably outlook) you need to go to tool, options, send and > you > will see a box ticked that says to automatically add addresses to address > book when you reply - untick the box. > > regards > > Lyn > in Oz. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:33 PM > Subject: [OEL] a question off topic but also a request > > >> Dear Listers >> >> My main question is about a radio serial. Radio 4 is putting out a Paul >> Temple mystery and they have used a similar format to that which was used >> around 40-50 years ago. Of course, this a pure nostalgia kick but the >> question is, who were the main characters played by? Francis Durbridge >> wrote the Paul Temple mysteries and Marjorie Westbury played his wife, >> Steve, but who played Paul Temple. Not remembering this is really getting >> on my nerves. >> >> Of course, this is not of earth shattering importance and nothing at all >> to do with family or local history. My next problem is a rather basic >> one. >> I see to have around four email addresses in my email address book, all >> put in automatically by the act of replying to messages. This is probably >> a message for Judith but if anyone at all knows the answer, I should be >> very glad to be informed. >> >> Audrey >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 05/09/2006 > >

The seminar, "British Isles - Finding Your Overseas Roots," offers a two-day overview of exploring your British ancestry. Sponsored by the Maryland Genealogical Society, the seminar features professional British genealogists Paul Blake and Maggie Loughran and will include lectures and workshops on various aspects of research in Britain. The seminar will be held 23-24 September 2006 at the Hilton Columbia in Columbia, Maryland. For detailed information and to register, visit www.mdgensoc.org/seminar2006.html. Druscilla Null Maryland Genealogical Society Board Member

Looks like Hugh Morton played Paul at times, as well as Richard Williams. then, Barry Morse, Kim Peacock, Howard Marion Crawford, Peter Coke..... These sites should help you decide who it is that you remember.... http://www.geocities.com/gregorym101/Temple1.html<http://www.geocities.com/gregorym101/Temple1.html> http://www.bbcaudiobooksamerica.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=7204<http://www.bbcaudiobooksamerica.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=7204> http://www.play.com/Books/AudioBooks/SB/2-/1442/2-/Promo.html<http://www.play.com/Books/AudioBooks/SB/2-/1442/2-/Promo.html> http://www.thrillingdetective.com/temple.html<http://www.thrillingdetective.com/temple.html> The 2 in larger print are the ones with the most information, I think. myra herron ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Lee<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: [OEL] a question off topic but also a request Dear Listers My main question is about a radio serial. Radio 4 is putting out a Paul Temple mystery and they have used a similar format to that which was used around 40-50 years ago. Of course, this a pure nostalgia kick but the question is, who were the main characters played by? Francis Durbridge wrote the Paul Temple mysteries and Marjorie Westbury played his wife, Steve, but who played Paul Temple. Not remembering this is really getting on my nerves. Of course, this is not of earth shattering importance and nothing at all to do with family or local history. My next problem is a rather basic one. I see to have around four email addresses in my email address book, all put in automatically by the act of replying to messages. This is probably a message for Judith but if anyone at all knows the answer, I should be very glad to be informed. Audrey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Listers My main question is about a radio serial. Radio 4 is putting out a Paul Temple mystery and they have used a similar format to that which was used around 40-50 years ago. Of course, this a pure nostalgia kick but the question is, who were the main characters played by? Francis Durbridge wrote the Paul Temple mysteries and Marjorie Westbury played his wife, Steve, but who played Paul Temple. Not remembering this is really getting on my nerves. Of course, this is not of earth shattering importance and nothing at all to do with family or local history. My next problem is a rather basic one. I see to have around four email addresses in my email address book, all put in automatically by the act of replying to messages. This is probably a message for Judith but if anyone at all knows the answer, I should be very glad to be informed. Audrey

I have forwarded this to my friend whose Surname is Hall, to see if she has a connection Liz > >I'm writing a biography of Baynard Rush Hall, >born in Philadelphia in l798, whose mother was >a Baynard in South Carolina plantation country. >The family may have descended from those of >Baynard Castle and I'm wondering if there are >descendants in the UK who are looking for any >family who went to America. > Dixie Richardson, Indianapolis, Indiana > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm writing a biography of Baynard Rush Hall, born in Philadelphia in l798, whose mother was a Baynard in South Carolina plantation country. The family may have descended from those of Baynard Castle and I'm wondering if there are descendants in the UK who are looking for any family who went to America. Dixie Richardson, Indianapolis, Indiana

Judith Werner wrote: > I've put a marriage entry for Thomas Netherwood on the Old-English > Unsolved pages at > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved40.html > > I can't make out the name of Thomas's parish. At first I thought the > first word was "Saynt" but that didn't hold up on closer inspection. > > This is the only Netherwood entry I found in Burgh; evidently Katherine > came from here and Thomas from elsewhere. As far as I know, there is > not a Netherwood presence in all of Suffolk so he might have been from > anywhere. There were Netherwoods in Essex and Cambridge around this > time; some in London as well. I've also found a Yorkshire Netherwood > or two in Norfolk this century, probably due to something concerning > the cloth trade. > > Any ideas on what this place might be would be appreciated. I think it must be Earl Soham (or Soham Comitis), just over 6 miles north of Burgh. It looks as though it has first been written as Soome Comitis, with the first word then changed to "Sohme". Chris Phillips

Judith, Thats a good result, forgot of the other meaning for the Comitis bit...... All the best, Martyn ----- Original Message ---- From: Judith Werner <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 7:22:00 PM Subject: [OEL] Fw: 1632 Marriage entry from Burgh, Suffolk Regarding this http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved40.html, I've had the following from Matt Tompkins who is unsubscribed at the moment. It looks like some of your recent ideas were approaching the same conclusion. ====================== Hello Judith, It looks to me like Sohame Comitis, in which case it must be Earl Soham in Suffolk, about 6 or 8 miles north of Burgh (and Ekwall quotes a 1254 reference to Earl Soham as Saham Comitis). Incidentally, the 1638 Suffolk muster roll lists a Thomas Netherwood in Falkenham, about 10 miles south of Burgh (Able Men of Suffolk 1638, p. 49). Best wishes, Matt Tompkins ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm finding the first word impossible at the moment but would agree with Martyn about the second, that is "Comites". As this is Latin for County, perhaps the first word is the name of the county? Can't make any sort of guess at the moment though. Don't think I agree with what Martyn has just suggested. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Werner" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 8:27 PM Subject: [OEL] 1632 Marriage entry from Burgh, Suffolk > Hi Folks. > > I've put a marriage entry for Thomas Netherwood on the Old-English > Unsolved pages at > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/unsolved40.html > > I can't make out the name of Thomas's parish. At first I thought the > first word was "Saynt" but that didn't hold up on closer inspection. > > This is the only Netherwood entry I found in Burgh; evidently Katherine > came from here and Thomas from elsewhere. As far as I know, there is > not a Netherwood presence in all of Suffolk so he might have been from > anywhere. There were Netherwoods in Essex and Cambridge around this > time; some in London as well. I've also found a Yorkshire Netherwood > or two in Norfolk this century, probably due to something concerning > the cloth trade. > > Any ideas on what this place might be would be appreciated. > > > cheers, > > Judith Werner > Salt Lake City, Utah, USA > Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH-L > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 05/09/2006 > >

Debbie, I think that you are possibly right - I have seen Southampton as a county abbreviated many ways. I was looking too closely and not taking the ohrase as a whole. "Of the County of Southampton" could be a plausible suggestion. All the best, Martyn ----- Original Message ---- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 6:49:33 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 1632 Marriage entry from Burgh, Suffolk Could Soham perhaps be some sort of abbreviation for Southampton which was at one time a county in its own right? I'm not sure where the county boundaries were but the present-day Hampshire is on the western border of Sussex. Debbie Kennett ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Judith, I've looked at the first word again and feel it could be "Sohame" as in Soham, Cambridgeshire. There is also as Soham Cotes listed as a place. I don't know if this is a possibility? Regards, Martyn ----- Original Message ---- From: Admin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 3:30:02 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 1632 Marriage entry from Burgh, Suffolk It came from a film for the parish register of Burgh, Suffolk. And Thomas could have been from outside the county, especially as I've yet to find other Netherwoods in Suffolk. Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH-L http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ | > | >I take it that the Burgh referred to is in the one in Suffolk? | But it could also be Burgh in Norfolk. | | John ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to all who responded to my plea for help with the Bucks bonds. Not only do I now understand better what actually took place but I also have suggestions for follow-up work which may lead to further discoveries. Magic. Many thanks. On Sep 7, 2006, at 08:28, Chris Bartlett wrote: > Hello Patricia > > I think Jim Halsey has clearly explained this and because I have had a > similar situation although in my case the orphan children were in Devon > where apprenticed out by the overseers of the poor to two uncles 50 > miles > away in Cornwall. > > I suggest you should try and dig deeper and look for wills from Francis > Dorrill or his wife and also William Chilton or his wife as it could > well > be they are related to your children and not just chosen because they > were > willing to look after them. We were very lucky and found not just the > wills > but the marriages making the connections. > > regards > Chris Bartlett > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patricia Ward > Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2006 4:42 a.m. > To: Old English mailing list > Subject: [OEL] Buckinghamshire bonds > > Can anyone help me understand these documents obtained from Bucks > Record > Office and transcribed below? > > > D/12/79/2 1657 Bond in £42. Francis Dorrill of Cheddington day labourer > to Churchwarden & overseers [Bucks RO] > Know all men by these presents that I ffrancis Dorrill of Cheddington, > in the Countie of Bucks day Labourer, am holden & firmly bound unto > John Seabrooke, yeoman, Churchwarden; & unto Thomas Tatnill, & George > Wooster, Overseers of the poore of Cheddington aforesaid, for this > present yeere of our Lord God one thousand, six hundred, fiftie & > seaven, in Two and ffourtie pounds, of lawfull money of England, to be > paid unto the said John Seabrooke, Thomas Tatnill, and George Wooster, > or to their Certaine Attorney, their executors, administrators or > assignes, to the use of the inhabitants of the Towne & parish of > Cheddington aforesaid. And to, & for the more sure payment thereof, I > binde my selfe, my heires, executors administrators, & assignes firmly > by these presents. Sealed with my seale, dated the six & twenteth day > of October, in the aforesaid yeere of our Lord God one thousand, six > hundred, fiftie & seaven, > The Condic’on of this Obligac’on is such, that if the above bounden > ffrancis Dorrill he, his heires, executors administrators, or assignes, > for & in Consideration of one & Twentie pounds of good & lawfull money > of England, to him the said ffrancis Dorrill, in hand paid, at or > before the ensealing & delivering of these presents, for & in > Consideration of taking unto him, or them, & of keeping with him, or > with them, or with either of them, at his or their proper Costs & > Charges, at all times in fitting manner of all needfull things for > them, those Two poore Children, now in the keeping of the said ffrancis > Dorrill, Being the naturall Children of John Howes, & Elizabeth his > wife, deceased, untill the said Children shall sunderly? accomplish the > full age of Eighteene yeeres, shall in all the aforesaid points, > respects, & particulars, well & trulie observe, performe, fulfill, and > keepe them, so that the said Two poore Children be no further forced > Charge unto all or anie of the inhabitants of the Towne & parish of > Cheddington aforesaid during the said Terme & Termes of Eighteene > yeeres, that then this present Obligac’on shall be void & of none > effect, of else it shall remaine, & be in full force & vertue. > Sealed & delivered to the use of the above named parties in the > presence of us James Pung, ffrancis Kympton. > ffrancis Dorrill X his marke. > > D/12/79/1 1657 Bond in £9. William Chiltorn of Cheddington day labourer > to Churchwarden & overseers [Bucks RO] > Know all men by these presents that I William Chiltorn of Cheddington, > in the Countie of Bucks, day Labourer, am holden & firmly bound unto > John Seabrooke, yeoman, Churchwarden; & unto Thomas Tatnill, & George > Wooster, Overseers of the poore of Cheddington aforesaid, for this > present yeere of our Lord God one thousand, six hundred, fiftie & > seaven, in Nine pounds, of lawfull money of England, to be paid unto > the said John Seabrooke, Thomas Tatnill, and George Wooster, or to > their Certaine Attorney, their executors, administrators or assignes, > to the use of the inhabitants of the Towne & parish of Cheddington > aforesaid. And to, & for the more sure payment thereof, I binde my > selfe, my heires, executors administrators, & assignes, firmly by these > presents. Sealed with my seale: dated the Thirteth day of October, in > the aforesaid yeere of our Lord God one thousand, six hundred, fiftie & > seaven, > The Condic’on of this Obligac’on is such, that if the above bounden > William Chiltorn, he his heires, executors administrators, or assignes, > for & in Consideration of ffoure pounds & Ten shillings of good & > lawfull money of England to him the said William Chiltorn, in hand > paid, at or before the ensealing, & delivering of these presents, for, > & in Consideration of taking unto him, or them, & of keeping with him, > or with them, or with either of them, at his or their proper Costs & > Charges, at all times in fitting manner of all needfull things for her, > that one poore Childe, now in the keeping of the said William Chiltorn, > Being the naturall daughter of John Howes, & Elizabeth his wife, > deceased, untill the said Childe shall accomplish the full age of > Eighteene yeeres, shall in all the aforesaid points, respects, & > particulars, well & trulie observe, performe, fulfill, and keepe them, > so that the said poore Childe, be no further forced Charge unto all, or > anie of the inhabitants of the Towne & parish of Cheddington aforesaid, > during the said Terme of Eighteene yeeres, that then this present > Obligac’on shall be void & of none effect, of else it shall remaine, & > be in full force & vertue. > Sealed & delivered in the presence of us James Pung, James Fenn > William Chilton X his marke > > My direct ancestor was Jane Howes, a daughter of John and Elizabeth > baptised 1650 in Cheddington. I believe that John died in 1653. > Elizabeth then married a Henry Harris and died in 1656. I have not > found a will for either of them. They had 7 children in Cheddington > but the only burial I have found is for Jane in 1727 who did leave a > will. > I apologise for the amount of words, which of course are causing my > problem! > Patricia Ward > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: > 5/09/2006 > >

Southampton is certainly a possibility except of course I've just realised that I was getting Suffolk and Sussex muddled up. Southampton would have been some distance from Suffolk but looking at my atlas I see that Burgh is a tiny village not far from Woodbridge and the port of Felixstowe. Perhaps Thomas Netherwood was a sailor? I would imagine it would have been easier to get from Southampton to Woodbridge by sea than land in the 1600s. Debbie Kennett

Could Soham perhaps be some sort of abbreviation for Southampton which was at one time a county in its own right? I'm not sure where the county boundaries were but the present-day Hampshire is on the western border of Sussex. Debbie Kennett