Roy Thanks for waking us up - too many variables (or variants) i think! Martyn ----- Original Message ---- From: Roy <[email protected]> To: "[email protected] com" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 9 November, 2006 9:15:23 PM Subject: [OEL] Slightly off Topic! Good Evening All - Hope you will forgive this but as the airways seem a little slack at present, perhaps some kind sole could approximate how long a vessel of 1497 tons in 1870, would have taken to sail to New York from Liverpool, with 187 immigrants on board plus the crew, and which may have called at an Irish port on the way? Not all at once I beg of you! Regards - Roy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> Good Evening All - > > Hope you will forgive this but as the airways seem a little slack at > present, perhaps some kind sole could approximate how long a vessel of > 1497 > tons in 1870, would have taken to sail to New York from Liverpool, with > 187 > immigrants on board plus the crew, and which may have called at an Irish > port on the way? > Not all at once I beg of you! > Regards - Roy Dear Roy, Queenstown, Ireland (Eire) May your God be with you, John L. In the Lordship of Walker [email protected] http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~littleblobby/

Good Evening All - Hope you will forgive this but as the airways seem a little slack at present, perhaps some kind sole could approximate how long a vessel of 1497 tons in 1870, would have taken to sail to New York from Liverpool, with 187 immigrants on board plus the crew, and which may have called at an Irish port on the way? Not all at once I beg of you! Regards - Roy

Hello Audrey, There actually was a will in which Thomas left the residue of two thirds of his goods to be divided amongst his children. Rauff, his son, was to have a cow above his child's part and he named his son John, with others, as his overseer. This does not seem to exclude the possibility of other children, and Roger would fit in nicely for age and the naming of subsequent children. It seems to be a snag to the theory as a Roger Tokenson (sic) was an appraiser with others. Of course there could have been two Rogers ( I'm sure that Tokenson should have been Tomkinson) The information about a relative acting as an appraiser where there was no will is interesting, although I have cases of cousins acting even when there was a will. It does, however, sadly look as if my theory is unlikely. Best wishes, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > Dear Don > > I've just had a thought about your question and am asking one of my own. You > have a probate inventory but is there a will to go with it or does it > accompany a bond of administration? If there was no will, different rules > seem to apply and you could get a relative as an appraiser as relatives > would be those called upon to sort out the effects of the decedent and act > in lieu of an executor. Generally speaking, the chief beneficiary of the > estate plus two or three others are those named on the bonds that accompany > these inventories. These are the administrators and are called upon to > produce an inventory of the decedent's goods and chattels. > > Audrey > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:04 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > > > Many thanks again Audrey. > > > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 5:55 PM > > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > > > > >> Dear Don > >> > >> I think the main thing to guard against was that he could not appear > > as a > >> beneficiary in the will or be in the line of succession. > >> > >> Audrey > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:46 PM > >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > >> > >> > >> > Hello Audrey, > >> > Many thanks for your comments. > >> > > >> > Would you rule out completely the possibility that one of the > >> > appraisers was the son of the deceased? > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > Don > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > >> > To: <[email protected]> > >> > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:03 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > >> > > >> > > >> >> Dear Don > >> >> > >> >> The "plus others" is possibly because the appraisers may feel the > >> > need to > >> >> call in someone with special knowledge of the estate. It doesn't > >> > mean that > >> >> there would be large numbers of them. I've looked at a lot of > >> > inventories > >> >> and have found that there are virtually never more than four > >> > although I > >> >> don't believe there were such hard and fast rules as to disallow > > it. > >> >> Generally speaking, the chief executor as long as he doesn't > > benefit > >> > from > >> >> the will plus someone who is familiar with the > >> >> estate and/or occupation of the deceased and perhaps a neighbour > > or > >> > friend > >> >> of the deceased too seems to be the practice. One decedent whose > >> > inventory I > >> >> saw was a physican and another physican from London was called in > > to > >> > assess > >> >> the value of the man's stock of medicines and medical equipment. > >> >> > >> >> I hope this helps. > >> >> > >> >> Audrey > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> > >> >> To: <[email protected]> > >> >> Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:05 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >I appreciate the comments regarding the servants and appraisers. > >> >> > > >> >> > I was hoping that sometimes the rule that appraisers should not > >> >> > benefit from a will was broken, as it would have explained a > >> > missing > >> >> > relationship. There were actually two other appraisers to the > >> >> > inventory "Plus others", which seems to imply there were more > > than > >> >> > four. > >> >> > > >> >> > Kind regards, > >> >> > Don > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> > From: "Eve McLaughlin" <[email protected]> > >> >> > To: <[email protected]> > >> >> > Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> > >> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:49 PM > >> >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> >> In message <[email protected]>, Donald > >> > Tomkinson > >> >> >> <[email protected]> writes > >> >> >> >In his will of 1569 Henry Tomkinson bequeaths a coat to his > >> > servant > >> >> >> >Richard Tomkinson. I understand that in those times it was > >> > common > >> >> > to > >> >> >> >employ a young relative as a personal servant. Can anyone > >> > comment > >> >> > on > >> >> >> >this practice and know how young the boys could be? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> It was common to farm out your teenagers into the households > > of > >> >> > (better > >> >> >> off) relatives - very convenient if your son was an orphan and > >> >> > needed > >> >> >> male input. They could start quite young, though on the > > whole, > >> > if > >> >> > they > >> >> >> were to be useful, 12 was about the lower limit. And if the > > lad > >> > was > >> >> >> inheriting (uncle)'s garments, he was probably somewhere > > close > >> > in > >> >> > size. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Eve McLaughlin > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians > >> >> >> Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ------------------------------- > >> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> > without the > >> >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release > > Date: > >> >> > 03/11/2006 > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > >> > 03/11/2006 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > > 03/11/2006 > > > > > > >

Dear Don I've just had a thought about your question and am asking one of my own. You have a probate inventory but is there a will to go with it or does it accompany a bond of administration? If there was no will, different rules seem to apply and you could get a relative as an appraiser as relatives would be those called upon to sort out the effects of the decedent and act in lieu of an executor. Generally speaking, the chief beneficiary of the estate plus two or three others are those named on the bonds that accompany these inventories. These are the administrators and are called upon to produce an inventory of the decedent's goods and chattels. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > Many thanks again Audrey. > > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 5:55 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > >> Dear Don >> >> I think the main thing to guard against was that he could not appear > as a >> beneficiary in the will or be in the line of succession. >> >> Audrey >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:46 PM >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. >> >> >> > Hello Audrey, >> > Many thanks for your comments. >> > >> > Would you rule out completely the possibility that one of the >> > appraisers was the son of the deceased? >> > >> > Regards, >> > Don >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:03 PM >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. >> > >> > >> >> Dear Don >> >> >> >> The "plus others" is possibly because the appraisers may feel the >> > need to >> >> call in someone with special knowledge of the estate. It doesn't >> > mean that >> >> there would be large numbers of them. I've looked at a lot of >> > inventories >> >> and have found that there are virtually never more than four >> > although I >> >> don't believe there were such hard and fast rules as to disallow > it. >> >> Generally speaking, the chief executor as long as he doesn't > benefit >> > from >> >> the will plus someone who is familiar with the >> >> estate and/or occupation of the deceased and perhaps a neighbour > or >> > friend >> >> of the deceased too seems to be the practice. One decedent whose >> > inventory I >> >> saw was a physican and another physican from London was called in > to >> > assess >> >> the value of the man's stock of medicines and medical equipment. >> >> >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> >> >> Audrey >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> >> >> To: <[email protected]> >> >> Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:05 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. >> >> >> >> >> >> >I appreciate the comments regarding the servants and appraisers. >> >> > >> >> > I was hoping that sometimes the rule that appraisers should not >> >> > benefit from a will was broken, as it would have explained a >> > missing >> >> > relationship. There were actually two other appraisers to the >> >> > inventory "Plus others", which seems to imply there were more > than >> >> > four. >> >> > >> >> > Kind regards, >> >> > Don >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Eve McLaughlin" <[email protected]> >> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> >> > Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> >> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:49 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> In message <[email protected]>, Donald >> > Tomkinson >> >> >> <[email protected]> writes >> >> >> >In his will of 1569 Henry Tomkinson bequeaths a coat to his >> > servant >> >> >> >Richard Tomkinson. I understand that in those times it was >> > common >> >> > to >> >> >> >employ a young relative as a personal servant. Can anyone >> > comment >> >> > on >> >> >> >this practice and know how young the boys could be? >> >> >> >> >> >> It was common to farm out your teenagers into the households > of >> >> > (better >> >> >> off) relatives - very convenient if your son was an orphan and >> >> > needed >> >> >> male input. They could start quite young, though on the > whole, >> > if >> >> > they >> >> >> were to be useful, 12 was about the lower limit. And if the > lad >> > was >> >> >> inheriting (uncle)'s garments, he was probably somewhere > close >> > in >> >> > size. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Eve McLaughlin >> >> >> >> >> >> Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians >> >> >> Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------- >> >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> > without the >> >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release > Date: >> >> > 03/11/2006 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: >> > 03/11/2006 >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > 03/11/2006 > >

Dear Debbie I suppose it's a case of hope for the best then - all we can do. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [OEL] John Overholt > > Audrey > > I'm pretty certain that John would not have published anything on the web. > I > know there are lots of sites about Holcombe Rogus and the Bluetts, most of > which probably have a lot of inaccurate information. I don't have a > particular interest in the Bluetts so I don't need any information for > myself. I was > only really thinking about the difficulties which might be faced by Bluett > researchers in the future. Unless anyone else in John's family takes an > interest > then it won't be possible to access John's research or any of the family > papers. > > Debbie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > 03/11/2006 > >

Many thanks again Audrey. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > Dear Don > > I think the main thing to guard against was that he could not appear as a > beneficiary in the will or be in the line of succession. > > Audrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > > > Hello Audrey, > > Many thanks for your comments. > > > > Would you rule out completely the possibility that one of the > > appraisers was the son of the deceased? > > > > Regards, > > Don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:03 PM > > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > > > > >> Dear Don > >> > >> The "plus others" is possibly because the appraisers may feel the > > need to > >> call in someone with special knowledge of the estate. It doesn't > > mean that > >> there would be large numbers of them. I've looked at a lot of > > inventories > >> and have found that there are virtually never more than four > > although I > >> don't believe there were such hard and fast rules as to disallow it. > >> Generally speaking, the chief executor as long as he doesn't benefit > > from > >> the will plus someone who is familiar with the > >> estate and/or occupation of the deceased and perhaps a neighbour or > > friend > >> of the deceased too seems to be the practice. One decedent whose > > inventory I > >> saw was a physican and another physican from London was called in to > > assess > >> the value of the man's stock of medicines and medical equipment. > >> > >> I hope this helps. > >> > >> Audrey > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:05 PM > >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > >> > >> > >> >I appreciate the comments regarding the servants and appraisers. > >> > > >> > I was hoping that sometimes the rule that appraisers should not > >> > benefit from a will was broken, as it would have explained a > > missing > >> > relationship. There were actually two other appraisers to the > >> > inventory "Plus others", which seems to imply there were more than > >> > four. > >> > > >> > Kind regards, > >> > Don > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Eve McLaughlin" <[email protected]> > >> > To: <[email protected]> > >> > Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> > >> > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:49 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS > >> > > >> > > >> >> In message <[email protected]>, Donald > > Tomkinson > >> >> <[email protected]> writes > >> >> >In his will of 1569 Henry Tomkinson bequeaths a coat to his > > servant > >> >> >Richard Tomkinson. I understand that in those times it was > > common > >> > to > >> >> >employ a young relative as a personal servant. Can anyone > > comment > >> > on > >> >> >this practice and know how young the boys could be? > >> >> > >> >> It was common to farm out your teenagers into the households of > >> > (better > >> >> off) relatives - very convenient if your son was an orphan and > >> > needed > >> >> male input. They could start quite young, though on the whole, > > if > >> > they > >> >> were to be useful, 12 was about the lower limit. And if the lad > > was > >> >> inheriting (uncle)'s garments, he was probably somewhere close > > in > >> > size. > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Eve McLaughlin > >> >> > >> >> Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians > >> >> Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > >> > 03/11/2006 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > > 03/11/2006 > > > > > > >

For Pete's sake! This conversation should have been taken off list a long time ago. It has nothing to do with the subject matter of this list. Judith Werner Salt Lake City, Utah, USA Administrator, OLD-ENGLISH http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ | Dear Debbie | | I suppose it's a case of hope for the best then - all we can do. | | Audrey | | > | > I'm pretty certain that John would not have published anything on the web. | > I | > know there are lots of sites about Holcombe Rogus and the Bluetts, most of | > which probably have a lot of inaccurate information. I don't have a | > particular interest in the Bluetts so I don't need any information for | > myself. I was | > only really thinking about the difficulties which might be faced by Bluett | > researchers in the future. Unless anyone else in John's family takes an | > interest | > then it won't be possible to access John's research or any of the family | > papers. | >

Audrey I'm pretty certain that John would not have published anything on the web. I know there are lots of sites about Holcombe Rogus and the Bluetts, most of which probably have a lot of inaccurate information. I don't have a particular interest in the Bluetts so I don't need any information for myself. I was only really thinking about the difficulties which might be faced by Bluett researchers in the future. Unless anyone else in John's family takes an interest then it won't be possible to access John's research or any of the family papers. Debbie

Dear Debbie I have gone through what I have and can't see a sign of the site I vaguely remembered. However, I had a look for Holcombe Rogus, Bluett and John Overholt and found several sites that appear to tie up Holcombe Rogus, Bluett and Overholt but not John. Some of these may be of interest to you and you know what you are looking for better than I do. Perhaps you could do something similar to see if you can find anything that interests you. The only other thing I can suggest is that you get in touch with John's family, although it could be rather sensitive just now. They may not mind but it's difficult to forecast their reactions. All I can tell you is that, from a personal point of view, I don't mind people getting in touch with me about my late husband's work and always do my best to answer their questions if I can. They may feel the same as me. Best of luck. I'm sure that it all depends upon how you word your approach. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] John Overholt > > Audrey > > As far as I am aware John never had a website and he never published any > of > his research so if you do have an old URL for something he published I > would > be very interested to receive it. Even if the site is no longer there it > should still be possible to retrieve it on the Internet Archive. > > I've heard many sad stories of people's research being completely > destroyed > after their descendants took no notice whatsoever. I did try my best to > persuade John to publish something but sadly his health defeated him. I > just hope > that one of his daughters will eventually take up the reins. > > Debbie > > In a message dated 04/11/2006 10:43:07 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Dear Debbie > > I do know what you mean about leaving things too late. A well respected > man > that I knew whose expertise was vernacular architecture and who gave a > great > deal to others in the subject never, himself, published. Others who were > not > so scrupulous would take his ideas and put them forward as their own but, > if > he had published, he could have claimed copyright. A great deal of his > work > was quite possibly lost as a lot was in his private files and on his own > slides. > > As far as John's daughters are concerned, they may just get the bug when > they are going through his papers. Surely they will not get rid of them > without considering the records office or the like! However, I have > known > of others who have come along to a more remote relative and literally > burnt > all his effects upon his death without looking at what they were doing. > Old > photographs and various other bits and pieces were lost that way. I would > think that John would not have daughters like that as they would think of > their father when going through his things. > > He did leave his site with me and I looked at it quite a while ago. I > shall > now have to revisit it to refresh my memory. > > Audrey > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > 03/11/2006 >

The passage of time [inevitible] an off the cuff at half 3 am -:) Alan Dell "for those who honour the past but love living in the present"

Dear Roberts many thanks for them. You are right in your comments. I will give the matter more thought but have come across so many different stories that show that many years of research can be lost forever unless care is taken ever this very issue of after death. There has been so much material lost, even in local researches and old photographs etc. Thanks for your interest. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Newton" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] researches > > The will is a good idea but it might be a good idea to also write down > your wishes and give copies to the people who will be taking care of > your effects. The will might not be read immediately where as someone > with good intentions could be clearing out all of your research during > the funeral or other service. You read of horror stories like this quite > often where the husband or wife dies and the children clear out the > clothing, etc. so the survivor won't have to be "reminded" of the loss > when they come home. With an entire room maybe a notice on the door, > too? > > Bob Newton > Near Los Angeles > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Talbot" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 7:22 AM > Subject: [OEL] researches > > >> the em's regards those archives of John Overholt are reflected more >> often >> than not. I have been a researcher for 40 years and have probably the >> largest database for transcribed Manor court rolls for >> Newcastle-under-Lyme >> in the world from 1350 to 1922. This is in addition to much other >> material >> gathered over the same period. In fact I have a room set apart at >> home for >> all this material. >> >> On so many occasions I come across problems when the answer is 'well >> when >> they died I put them in a bin-liner'. Sadly this is too often for >> comfort. >> I have published some of my material, but I have made sure in my will >> that >> all my material is given to the city archives when I die. Perhaps >> this >> consideration should be taken seriously by fellow historians and >> researchers. >> >> Richard Talbot. >> Stoke-on-Trent. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.13.28/518 - Release Date: > 04/11/2006 17:30 >

Dear Don I think the main thing to guard against was that he could not appear as a beneficiary in the will or be in the line of succession. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > Hello Audrey, > Many thanks for your comments. > > Would you rule out completely the possibility that one of the > appraisers was the son of the deceased? > > Regards, > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Lee" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. > > >> Dear Don >> >> The "plus others" is possibly because the appraisers may feel the > need to >> call in someone with special knowledge of the estate. It doesn't > mean that >> there would be large numbers of them. I've looked at a lot of > inventories >> and have found that there are virtually never more than four > although I >> don't believe there were such hard and fast rules as to disallow it. >> Generally speaking, the chief executor as long as he doesn't benefit > from >> the will plus someone who is familiar with the >> estate and/or occupation of the deceased and perhaps a neighbour or > friend >> of the deceased too seems to be the practice. One decedent whose > inventory I >> saw was a physican and another physican from London was called in to > assess >> the value of the man's stock of medicines and medical equipment. >> >> I hope this helps. >> >> Audrey >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Donald Tomkinson" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS ETC. >> >> >> >I appreciate the comments regarding the servants and appraisers. >> > >> > I was hoping that sometimes the rule that appraisers should not >> > benefit from a will was broken, as it would have explained a > missing >> > relationship. There were actually two other appraisers to the >> > inventory "Plus others", which seems to imply there were more than >> > four. >> > >> > Kind regards, >> > Don >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Eve McLaughlin" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Cc: "OLD ENGLISH MESSAGE" <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:49 PM >> > Subject: Re: [OEL] 16TH CENTURY SERVANTS >> > >> > >> >> In message <[email protected]>, Donald > Tomkinson >> >> <[email protected]> writes >> >> >In his will of 1569 Henry Tomkinson bequeaths a coat to his > servant >> >> >Richard Tomkinson. I understand that in those times it was > common >> > to >> >> >employ a young relative as a personal servant. Can anyone > comment >> > on >> >> >this practice and know how young the boys could be? >> >> >> >> It was common to farm out your teenagers into the households of >> > (better >> >> off) relatives - very convenient if your son was an orphan and >> > needed >> >> male input. They could start quite young, though on the whole, > if >> > they >> >> were to be useful, 12 was about the lower limit. And if the lad > was >> >> inheriting (uncle)'s garments, he was probably somewhere close > in >> > size. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Eve McLaughlin >> >> >> >> Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians >> >> Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: >> > 03/11/2006 >> > >> > >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > 03/11/2006 > >

Dear Debbie I do hope that I can trace the site. It was a long time ago that he sent it to me and I know that I've changed computers at least once since then. I shall certainly try and locate it. However, at the time, he was anxious not to allow his material to get out into the hands of all and sundry (I'm sure that this does not include you). I think that he had thoughts that there could be some unscrupulous people out there who would try and trace the Bluett fortunes and capture them for themselves. I don't think money figured in John's mind but protecting the Bluett archives did. However, I am sure that his site would be available now and so there would be nothing there that could compromise any of his research. After all, it's a bit like taking out a page in a newspaper when things are displayed on an Internet site, isn't it. However, you do have to be careful what information you hand out as banks have a habit of asking questions about mother's maiden names and the like in order to use as a password to protect one's bank accounts. Perhaps he had that in mind too - I really don't know. Any way, I'll do my best to find the site and send you the address. Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] John Overholt > > Audrey > > As far as I am aware John never had a website and he never published any > of > his research so if you do have an old URL for something he published I > would > be very interested to receive it. Even if the site is no longer there it > should still be possible to retrieve it on the Internet Archive. > > I've heard many sad stories of people's research being completely > destroyed > after their descendants took no notice whatsoever. I did try my best to > persuade John to publish something but sadly his health defeated him. I > just hope > that one of his daughters will eventually take up the reins. > > Debbie > > In a message dated 04/11/2006 10:43:07 GMT Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Dear Debbie > > I do know what you mean about leaving things too late. A well respected > man > that I knew whose expertise was vernacular architecture and who gave a > great > deal to others in the subject never, himself, published. Others who were > not > so scrupulous would take his ideas and put them forward as their own but, > if > he had published, he could have claimed copyright. A great deal of his > work > was quite possibly lost as a lot was in his private files and on his own > slides. > > As far as John's daughters are concerned, they may just get the bug when > they are going through his papers. Surely they will not get rid of them > without considering the records office or the like! However, I have > known > of others who have come along to a more remote relative and literally > burnt > all his effects upon his death without looking at what they were doing. > Old > photographs and various other bits and pieces were lost that way. I would > think that John would not have daughters like that as they would think of > their father when going through his things. > > He did leave his site with me and I looked at it quite a while ago. I > shall > now have to revisit it to refresh my memory. > > Audrey > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: > 03/11/2006 >

"Cheese Factor. Propr of Houses & Land" Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 4:37 PM Subject: [OEL] Help with Occupation I can't make up the final words of Robert ROE's occupation in the 1861 Census. "Cheese Factor. Propr of **** Land(?)" Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1889; Folio: 13; Page: 19; GSU roll: 542883. Any help would be highly appreciated. Alejandro Milberg Boston, Mass. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, 'effluxion of time' is correct :)--------a legak term pertaining to the end of a lease in terms of the calendar vs. other events. Kelly Gray _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us

Mike: >".. lease of the Rangeworthy >Colliery will expire by [effluxien] of time" > >The word "effluxien" was not clear so our spelling might be wrong. Please >can anyone help with the meaning of "effluxien"? That would be 'effluxion', literally 'flowing out'. A more modern phrase might be 'passage of time'. Regards, John Moore

Hi Mike >From the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary: Efflux: 2. The lapse of time etc, hence expiry Effluxion: 2 = Efflux 2 So it could be a mis-transcription or a "mis-spelling" in the original. HTH Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Whitehead & Stephanie Keates" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 11:30 AM Subject: [OEL] Effluxien Dear members In a 19th century document about the lease to mine coal in an area of Gloucestershire, England is the statement ".. lease of the Rangeworthy Colliery will expire by [effluxien] of time" The word "effluxien" was not clear so our spelling might be wrong. Please can anyone help with the meaning of "effluxien"? Thanks in anticipation, Mike Whitehead on behalf of the South Gloucestershire Mining Research Group. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can't make up the final words of Robert ROE's occupation in the 1861 Census. "Cheese Factor. Propr of **** Land(?)" Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1889; Folio: 13; Page: 19; GSU roll: 542883. Any help would be highly appreciated. Alejandro Milberg Boston, Mass.

Dear members In a 19th century document about the lease to mine coal in an area of Gloucestershire, England is the statement ".. lease of the Rangeworthy Colliery will expire by [effluxien] of time" The word "effluxien" was not clear so our spelling might be wrong. Please can anyone help with the meaning of "effluxien"? Thanks in anticipation, Mike Whitehead on behalf of the South Gloucestershire Mining Research Group.