Crakehall manor court roll, 1698 : Michael Grundell for being a common hedgebreaker amerced 2s6d. 7 others for the like offence all fined 2s6d. Can anyone tell me what they had done? Ian Hancock GlenLodge Crakehall History http://www.glenlodge.me.uk/crakehallindex.html

Today it would be Trespassing laws, with fines or jail time. Also if stock was involved. Stella

Heather Have you tried the Inner Temple Admissions Database: http://www.innertemple.org.uk/archive/itad/index.asp There are various other legal reference books providing biographical details which you should be able to find in a large reference or university library. Debbie Kennett CRUWYS one-name study http://www.one-name.org/profiles/cruwys.html In a message dated 23/01/2007 22:35:34 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: In a message dated 21/01/2007 02:53:39 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Dear list, > > Having had enormous assistance with the deciphering of an ancient will I ask > for your help again. > > I have seen numerous of my HARLE ancestors in the Northumberland area listed > as witnesses or attorneys to documents,(particularly in the 16th and 17th > centuries) but have not found records of their legal training in either the > Oxford of Cambridge lists. > > What training did lawyers receive during this period, and was it more of an > 'apprenticeship' situation? > > Heather Brain > Melbourne, Vic. A

In a message dated 21/01/2007 02:53:39 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > > Dear list, > > Having had enormous assistance with the deciphering of an ancient will I ask > for your help again. > > I have seen numerous of my HARLE ancestors in the Northumberland area listed > as witnesses or attorneys to documents,(particularly in the 16th and 17th > centuries) but have not found records of their legal training in either the > Oxford of Cambridge lists. > > What training did lawyers receive during this period, and was it more of an > 'apprenticeship' situation? > > Heather Brain > Melbourne, Vic. A > > > ==================================== Hello Heather, If you are looking at title deeds it may be that what you are seeing is someone acting as an attorney for the "Livery of Seizin" [the actual handing over of a clod of earth or a key]. If this is the case, the person did not need legal training, it was just someone to act on another's behalf. Best wishes, Margaret.

Vauxhall would have been in Surrey at that time, wouldn't it? Audrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] 1851 census abbreviation > Hi - > > Yes Margaret. Very puzzling but I managed quite high magnification and the > last letter is almost certainly an "H" and the 2nd a "D" as the left side > of > the character is a straight line. The 1st letter is the one I am doubtful > about, could be either an "O" or a "C"?? > > Agreed also that it relates to Vauxhall rather than Surrey. > > I've tried to imagine what circumstance could have led to this > "Entry/Remark" and the only thing I can think of one of checking, if one > knew who the enumerator was it may shine a little more light? > > Cheers - Roy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: 20 January 2007 17:17 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [OEL] 1851 census abbreviation > > Hello, > My first impression was that it was ODG...but after that I wasn't so sure, > it > could even by OLC. > > However, I am pretty certain it is not telling you anything about the PAGE > family. I think it is most likely to be part of the process of analysis of > the > information regarding birthplaces. I think it relates to the London > Vauxhall > > rather than the Surrey entry above but can't be sure. > > The other possibility is that it was an attempt at a faithful copy by the > enumerator of something written on the schedule by the householder. It is > certainly most unusual. > > Best wishes, > Margaret. > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

By not for profit I mean they plough profits into the enterprise - yes some staff are paid but that is true of not for profit charities as well. When I did my masters in Managing Not for Profit Enterprises that was how we defined not for profit. And I believe they sponsor some of the rootsweb lists. However, I am not here to argue. I dont know of the other enterprises, I only know of this one, which I have bought from on many occassions. I am sure there are other places. The important thing is that it isnt lost to historians - and if it does come out on CD, I would be interested in buying a copy Liz > >There are a number of other concerns who also do this - I hesitated to >mention this as all such concerns need to make a profit and rootsweb is >anti >such posts as I understand it. They are owned by the people who started >them off and make a profit to pay staff, including the owners, to pay rent, >mortgage, buy equipment and other capital assets and so on. The >description not for profit is slightly misleading in my personal view. >It >is not a social enterprise. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/

There are a number of other concerns who also do this - I hesitated to mention this as all such concerns need to make a profit and rootsweb is anti such posts as I understand it. They are owned by the people who started them off and make a profit to pay staff, including the owners, to pay rent, mortgage, buy equipment and other capital assets and so on. The description not for profit is slightly misleading in my personal view. It is not a social enterprise. If you would like the name of another couple of smaller concerns with less overheads please get in touch privately. Be aware however that if the book is not one that is 'commercially' viable - in other words will sell to cover all costs as an absolute basic minimum and make a bit of profit then none of these people is likely to do it. I offered archive cd books around 20 of mine to copy for free and sell and they accepted only 9. They did give me a cd copy of each of those they scanned. They do not usually restore books donated by individuals - at least they restored none of mine and a couple are in quite a poor condition - Erdeswicks Survey of Staffordshire for example which they were quite excited to have. They had absolutely no interest to my surprise in The History and Antiquities of Masham and Mashamshire pub 1865 whihc is really quite rare - but one of the other concerns I mentioned did copy this - and also gave me a cd as a thank you. It is libraries and record offices whose books archive cd books sometimes restore - no doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong in this - but this is my personal experience. Ros ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Parkinson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [OEL] New Gresham Dictionary, 1917-ish >I suggest you contact Archive CD books, > > http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ > > They are a not for profit group who scan old books using specialised > equipment, and make them available at a low cost to people on CD. They > use > the income from the sales to pay for the restoration of the book concerned > and other books, and they buy books at auction which need restoring, pay > for > their restoration, scan them and make them available on CD. The very > first > book they did was called The Nottingham Date book, this book was in such > poor condition that Notts record office were going to stop letting people > read it. Rod Neep, who was well known to them, begged to be allowed to > borrow it for a weekend to scan it, and sell copies of it on CD to raise > the > money to restore it. That book was also indexed by a team of volunteers, > myself included. And from this it has grown into a worldwide project. > > As for Latin - I am currently doing A level, so I can read medieval > sources, > but I know I am a rarity > > Liz in Stockport > > >>From: Chris <[email protected]> >>Reply-To: [email protected] >>To: [email protected] >>Subject: [OEL] New Gresham Dictionary, 1917-ish >>Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:40:58 -0500 >> >>Hi Folks, >>I just signed up here to let you all know I have an original 1917-ish >>New Gresham Dictionary. It's a bit tired but mostly all there. >>I'm not trying to sell it, but asking of you what should I do to >>preserve its contents? >>I just figure it's kind of neat, full of all sorts of OE anachronysms >>and some Latin which no-one these days ever learns. >>It'd be a shame to lose this one, I think. >>What to do? >> >>Quid rides? >>Chris >> >> >> >>==================================== >>WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ >>ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Mail > http://ideas.live.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ==================================== > WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 12:56 21/01/2007, Liz Parkinson wrote: >I suggest you contact Archive CD books, Unfortunately, dictionaries of this age are neither rare nor particularly desirable. They are the sort of books that can be picked up at charity shops for pence. The few words that they contain that have fallen out of more modern dictionaries can usually be found with the aid of google. John

Dear list, Having had enormous assistance with the deciphering of an ancient will I ask for your help again. I have seen numerous of my HARLE ancestors in the Northumberland area listed as witnesses or attorneys to documents,(particularly in the 16th and 17th centuries) but have not found records of their legal training in either the Oxford of Cambridge lists. What training did lawyers receive during this period, and was it more of an 'apprenticeship' situation? Heather Brain Melbourne, Vic. A

I suggest you contact Archive CD books, http://www.archivecdbooks.org/ They are a not for profit group who scan old books using specialised equipment, and make them available at a low cost to people on CD. They use the income from the sales to pay for the restoration of the book concerned and other books, and they buy books at auction which need restoring, pay for their restoration, scan them and make them available on CD. The very first book they did was called The Nottingham Date book, this book was in such poor condition that Notts record office were going to stop letting people read it. Rod Neep, who was well known to them, begged to be allowed to borrow it for a weekend to scan it, and sell copies of it on CD to raise the money to restore it. That book was also indexed by a team of volunteers, myself included. And from this it has grown into a worldwide project. As for Latin - I am currently doing A level, so I can read medieval sources, but I know I am a rarity Liz in Stockport >From: Chris <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: [OEL] New Gresham Dictionary, 1917-ish >Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:40:58 -0500 > >Hi Folks, >I just signed up here to let you all know I have an original 1917-ish >New Gresham Dictionary. It's a bit tired but mostly all there. >I'm not trying to sell it, but asking of you what should I do to >preserve its contents? >I just figure it's kind of neat, full of all sorts of OE anachronysms >and some Latin which no-one these days ever learns. >It'd be a shame to lose this one, I think. >What to do? > >Quid rides? >Chris > > > >==================================== >WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ >ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving – check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com

Morning Chris - In the UK the County Records Offices' Archives are the places where to lodge these olde and cherished books and documents. Most parishes have now deposited their church registers and other Parish Chest documents and are kept in 'Safe' custody and recorded for all the public to reference, free of charge. They also have shelves full of these types of books for public viewing; almost like your local library, except of course they are not for lending. Kind Regards Roy LD Cox WEB: www.coxresearcher.com/index.htm Member of the Somerset Archealogical & Natural History Society No. 1066 (And All That!) http://www.sanhs.org -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: 21 January 2007 03:41 To: [email protected] Subject: [OEL] New Gresham Dictionary, 1917-ish Hi Folks, I just signed up here to let you all know I have an original 1917-ish New Gresham Dictionary. It's a bit tired but mostly all there. I'm not trying to sell it, but asking of you what should I do to preserve its contents? I just figure it's kind of neat, full of all sorts of OE anachronysms and some Latin which no-one these days ever learns. It'd be a shame to lose this one, I think. What to do? Quid rides? Chris ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Chris The most useful and altrusic thing that you could do with it is to scan it and put the whole thing on a free website.....not only would this preserve it but also make the contents freely available to everyone. I must admit that I treasure the dictionary I had at school - a 1948 edition for much the same reasons. It is amazing how many words that you find in that are no longer in current use, or have different meanings nowadays. Kind regards Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:40 AM Subject: [OEL] New Gresham Dictionary, 1917-ish Hi Folks, I just signed up here to let you all know I have an original 1917-ish New Gresham Dictionary. It's a bit tired but mostly all there. I'm not trying to sell it, but asking of you what should I do to preserve its contents? I just figure it's kind of neat, full of all sorts of OE anachronysms and some Latin which no-one these days ever learns. It'd be a shame to lose this one, I think. What to do? Quid rides? Chris ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Folks, I just signed up here to let you all know I have an original 1917-ish New Gresham Dictionary. It's a bit tired but mostly all there. I'm not trying to sell it, but asking of you what should I do to preserve its contents? I just figure it's kind of neat, full of all sorts of OE anachronysms and some Latin which no-one these days ever learns. It'd be a shame to lose this one, I think. What to do? Quid rides? Chris

I had wondered whether it might be enumerator's shorthand for [something like] 'of dubious/ doubtful honesty', and wondered whether list members with more experience than I have of census searching might have come across it in other entries. Many thanks for all contributions so far Ian

Hi - Yes Margaret. Very puzzling but I managed quite high magnification and the last letter is almost certainly an "H" and the 2nd a "D" as the left side of the character is a straight line. The 1st letter is the one I am doubtful about, could be either an "O" or a "C"?? Agreed also that it relates to Vauxhall rather than Surrey. I've tried to imagine what circumstance could have led to this "Entry/Remark" and the only thing I can think of one of checking, if one knew who the enumerator was it may shine a little more light? Cheers - Roy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: 20 January 2007 17:17 To: [email protected] Subject: [OEL] 1851 census abbreviation Hello, My first impression was that it was ODG...but after that I wasn't so sure, it could even by OLC. However, I am pretty certain it is not telling you anything about the PAGE family. I think it is most likely to be part of the process of analysis of the information regarding birthplaces. I think it relates to the London Vauxhall rather than the Surrey entry above but can't be sure. The other possibility is that it was an attempt at a faithful copy by the enumerator of something written on the schedule by the householder. It is certainly most unusual. Best wishes, Margaret. ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, My first impression was that it was ODG...but after that I wasn't so sure, it could even by OLC. However, I am pretty certain it is not telling you anything about the PAGE family. I think it is most likely to be part of the process of analysis of the information regarding birthplaces. I think it relates to the London Vauxhall rather than the Surrey entry above but can't be sure. The other possibility is that it was an attempt at a faithful copy by the enumerator of something written on the schedule by the householder. It is certainly most unusual. Best wishes, Margaret.

Ian - I have managed to enlarge the page and the entry is I think "CDH" - the letters are partly encircled to make them apart from the place where Charles was born but as to what they may mean would I think, be of interest to the enumerator only! I would concede that the 1st letter could be an "O" due to the flow of ink although the main structure of the letter looks to a "C"? In any event, I have never come across any such letters or any other combination in any censuses. Hope this helps a bit, hopefully somone may have more experience of census entries? Cheers - Roy Dr Ian Buckley <[email protected]> wrote: Polly Rubery is right - sorry for the oversight. The record is of Charles H Page, born 1842, residing in Cheltenham (Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1973; Folio: 171; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87373-87374.) Ian Buckley ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Polly Rubery is right - sorry for the oversight. The record is of Charles H Page, born 1842, residing in Cheltenham (Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1973; Folio: 171; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87373-87374.) Ian Buckley

Hi Ian Giving us the name of the people and/or reference of the page would enable us to check to see what it might say.... Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr Ian Buckley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: [OEL] 1851 Census abbreviation In the course of working with the 1851 census, I have come across an abbreviation that puzzles me, and I wonder whether any list member may be able to resolve my difficulty. The abbreviation is found in the 'Where born' box. The head of household, a widow, is listed as born in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire; next, her eldest son is recorded as born Chertsey, Surrey; then her second son is recorded as born London, Vauxhall. Just in front of the 'London' in this record are the initials ODG . or it might be ODF. If anyone knows the meaning of these initials, I should be most grateful for an explanation. Ian Buckley ==================================== WEB PAGE: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/ ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=OLD-ENGLISH ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the course of working with the 1851 census, I have come across an abbreviation that puzzles me, and I wonder whether any list member may be able to resolve my difficulty. The abbreviation is found in the 'Where born' box. The head of household, a widow, is listed as born in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire; next, her eldest son is recorded as born Chertsey, Surrey; then her second son is recorded as born London, Vauxhall. Just in front of the 'London' in this record are the initials ODG . or it might be ODF. If anyone knows the meaning of these initials, I should be most grateful for an explanation. Ian Buckley