Joyce, I am sorry I can help you in your search for the Spears family. I did know a girl named Shirley Spears when I was in Muskogee Central High School, but that was in the late 1950s. I graduated in 1961. I did not know anything about her or her family. I wish you luck in your quest. Cecil At 04:45 PM 6/8/01 -0400, you wrote: >Patsy, Claus, and Cecil > >I am not trying to interfere with your conversations, but I noticed that you >all have or know people in Porum, OK. > >My father in law was from there: ELBERT HARRISON SPEARS >He and his family lived there until 1950 when they moved to Sayre, OK, where >he passed away on Nov. 1, 1954. > >Can anyone give me any information on him or his family, namely his father >NICHOLAS (NICK) SPEARS, his mother ANNA (LYNCH) SPEARS, his brother WILL >SPEARS, or his sisters ADDIE and IDA or IDE SPEARS. Also am looking for >information on Elbert's first wife, JENNIE SPEARS and her first husband >Jimmie Mykle. Can anyone help, I have hit a dead end with this family before >1950. > >Any and all information will be greatly appreciated, you may Email me direct, >but please do not send attachments of any kind. Thank you. > >Joyce Spears-Wafford >[email protected] > > >==== OKMUSKOG Mailing List ==== >Post and read messages at the Muskogee County, OK and Creek Nation,IT >GenConnect Query Boards. Linked from: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmuskog/ and http://www.rootsweb.com/~itcreek/ > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Claus thank you for sending me the address for the Porum, OK web site. I will check it out. Please do not say ALL I have is memories. At the rate things are happening I sometime think that memories are the best things of all. In memories people and places do not change. People do not get fat, old and sick, and places do not get shabbier and are not torn down. My I must be in a very maudlin mood today. Oh well, thank your for your quick response. Cecil At 12:44 PM 6/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >Sorry Cecil but all i have on the Delaney's is memories, but there is a >Porum Ok web site that you may find someone with more information. >http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9091/index.html . >Claus > > >==== OKMUSKOG Mailing List ==== >Post and read messages at the Muskogee County, OK and Creek Nation,IT >GenConnect Query Boards. Linked from: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmuskog/ and http://www.rootsweb.com/~itcreek/ > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Patsy we have a connection here. I hope you do not mind, but I am going to send an email directly to you. If anyone else is interested in this family please let me know and I will gladly exchange information with them. I do not wish to cut anyone off, but I know that there are many people out there who are just not interested. Claus - I do not have anything on the Barnes family, except for some that married into my family in Howard Co. Missouri, but Claude Delaney is a distant relation to my children from their fathers side of the family. I would like to have any information you might have on Claude and his family. Until next time, Cecil V. Boyd At 10:59 AM 6/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >I checked my papers on the Pryors , and I have Josephine Pryor, b. Dec.10, >1865, a daughter of William ( Buck) and Mary E.(Shipley) Pryor. >Josephine Pryor was a younger sister to Caroline (Pryor) Barnes, b.1861. >Caroline Pryor married Samuel N. Barnes,Caroline was my great grandmother. >Samuel and Caroline lived at Porum, Caroline d. 1899 in Starvilla, >Indian Territory. Samuel died 1901 in Porum . My records show they are >both burried in Fields Cemetery. >My mother was born in Porum 1916 , most of my information came from my >mother and her family. >I have more information about Josephine's family , >Josephine Pryor b. Dec. 10 1865 died May 23, 1939 Fields Cemetery >Samuel Delaney b.1862 in Ohio died March 12 1913 Fields Cemetery. >Josephine and Samuel had 11 children >Lucinda Delaney >William Delaney >Katherine Delaney >Narcissa Delaney >Lydia Delaney >Roxie Delaney >Clarence Delaney >Sim Delaney >Claude Delaney >Ollie Delaney >Haskell Delaney > >I have more information on the Pryor's, I bought a book called " My >Shipley Family" there is a lot of information on the family in it. > >Patsy, > > > > >==== OKMUSKOG Mailing List ==== >Do you have old Muskogee County pictures or some information to share? >That's what genealogy is all about. http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmuskog/ and >http://www.rootsweb.com/~itcreek/ > >============================== >Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: >Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. >http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

Sorry Cecil but all i have on the Delaney's is memories, but there is a Porum Ok web site that you may find someone with more information. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9091/index.html . Claus

Hi, I checked my papers on the Pryors , and I have Josephine Pryor, b. Dec.10, 1865, a daughter of William ( Buck) and Mary E.(Shipley) Pryor. Josephine Pryor was a younger sister to Caroline (Pryor) Barnes, b.1861. Caroline Pryor married Samuel N. Barnes,Caroline was my great grandmother. Samuel and Caroline lived at Porum, Caroline d. 1899 in Starvilla, Indian Territory. Samuel died 1901 in Porum . My records show they are both burried in Fields Cemetery. My mother was born in Porum 1916 , most of my information came from my mother and her family. I have more information about Josephine's family , Josephine Pryor b. Dec. 10 1865 died May 23, 1939 Fields Cemetery Samuel Delaney b.1862 in Ohio died March 12 1913 Fields Cemetery. Josephine and Samuel had 11 children Lucinda Delaney William Delaney Katherine Delaney Narcissa Delaney Lydia Delaney Roxie Delaney Clarence Delaney Sim Delaney Claude Delaney Ollie Delaney Haskell Delaney I have more information on the Pryor's, I bought a book called " My Shipley Family" there is a lot of information on the family in it. Patsy,

Hi Patsy I was reading your posting and had to ask a questions about your relatives, my Wife Pat has an Aunt Margaret Barnes (by marriage) to John Hood, are you related to Margaret? My wife and i grew up around Porum and we went to school with Children of the Pryor,Delaney, and Barns families, this was in the 50-60's. My Grand Parents were friends of Claude Delaney and family. I think they went to the same Church. Claus

Patsy do you have a Josephine Pryor in your family? The Josephine Pryor I am interested in was born 10 Dec 1865, and died 23 May 1939. She married Samuel Delaney. Samuel was born in 1859, and died in 1912. They are both buried in Fields Cemetery. If you or anyone have information about this family I would appreciate hearing form them. Thank you, Ms. Cecil V. Boyd At 07:54 PM 5/13/01 -0500, you wrote: >Thank you George, I was told my great grandmother , died abt 1918 and was >buried there. She most likely has an unmarked grave. >I was told I have a lot of relatives buried in Fields Cemetery. >surnames Pryor , Barnes & Watts . > >Patsy > > >==== OKMUSKOG Mailing List ==== >Find your roots. Discover your cousins. Visit Muskogee County, Oklahoma >Home Page at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmuskog/ and Creek Nation, IT: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~itcreek/ > >============================== >Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: >Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. >http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

Posted on: Muskogee County, Ok Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ok/Muskogee/11900 Surname: Harsha ------------------------- I am looking for descendants of WS and Laura Harsha, who were prominent citizens of Muskogee County around the turn of the century. Harsha children were Rex S. (b.6/30/1883), Francis W., William N., Annie, Truman (furniture business in Muskogee) and Hoy (connected with the state banking commission). If you have any information pertaining to these people, please contact me.

Posted on: Muskogee County, Ok Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ok/Muskogee/11899 Surname: BAGWELL, HAGGARD, HOLLAND ------------------------- I am researching a Henry Frank Holland family. In an obit for April 24, 2001 I found the name Janice BAGWELL buried in COUNCIL HILL, MUSKOGEE co. OK. Does anyone know if this is a daughter to Reuben LeRoy Lee HAGGARD also buried in Council Hill? And a granddaughter to Henry Frank HOLLAND buried 1943 Morris, Okmulgee co. OK? I have information on a Henry Frank Holland family and want to know if this might be them. I also have pictures of the Henry Frank Holland family.

Posted on: Muskogee County, Ok Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ok/Muskogee/11897 Surname: Loubey ------------------------- Looking for address for West Lawn Cemetary in Henryetta. Can anyone help. Thanks in advance.

Posted on: Muskogee County, Ok Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ok/Muskogee/11896 Surname: Loubey, Walls ------------------------- Looking for any all information on a marriage between Frank Loubey and Hattie Walls in and around 1911. Thank you in advance. Mary Ann

Posted on: Muskogee County, Ok Query Forum Reply Here: http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/USA/Ok/Muskogee/11895 Surname: Loubey, Walls ------------------------- Looking for any and all information on a marriage between Frank Loubey and Hattie Walls in and around 1911 also the birth of their son James Loubey in 1912. Thank you in advance.

Bobby, Thank you, Best Wishes, Charlotte

If Doug [email protected] reads this three e-mails to you bounced. Re: Purity Drun & picture of Joe Magota.

Charlotte, I am including a link to a good site about Cherokee history. This should answer most of your questions. If i can help further, please let me know Bobby <A HREF="http://pages.tca.net/martikw/"> History of the Cherokee -- White Indian's Homepage</A>

Bobby, You have just helped me a lot as I have wondered on all that info you sent me. You have explained so much to me in this last e-mail. I have found that even some of the Gregory's were from VA in the beginning mine? So this all makes sense in a way as I know that we know at this point our Gregory line came from TN before arriving in KY. Now my particular branch ended up in KY around Allen Co. and this is where my Tennie (Tennessee) Gregory was born around 1878. My Grandmother did show me a picture of her mother Tennie and my first question was is she Indian? To this she just shrugged her shoulders so I am assuming that either she did not know or even in the 50s there was still so much prejudice against anything but the white man. I was only around 6 or 7 at this time but I remember this picture as if it was yesterday that I saw it. When you say civilized in terms of the Indians what do you mean? I understood about the part of the written language. But I have seen just as much uncivilized behavior out of the white man even more so as they were the first to start a lot of things. It's like their calling the Indians savages now to me the white man was more savage than the Indians ever thought about being. I have always loved the Indians way of honoring and thanking the deer or buffalo they killed. Their way of living in harmony with nature too. I have a soap box on the Indians as well as the Irish so I do sometimes go on and on. As I told my cousin I will not be surprised to find I have Indian bloodlines at all. I will also be very proud of my Indian Heritage as well no matter what. On the Indian rolls do you know their times and places? I think I have seen a bit on these but I did not totally understand on them. Are they census's more or less? I think what I am not understanding on these is you said different times and areas. Did they shuffle the Indians around a lot? Or did they move on their own? Or where these rolls taken on different tribes living in separate places to begin with? On the trail of tears is this when they were moved from there loved and owned lands to just one big reservation? Where did they move them to? I have heard bits and pieces on the orphanages for the Indian children which brings us back to the word civilized. The way these people were treated was a crime to me. I saw this on one of those educational programs where they finally tell the truth about things. Do you know of any good web sites on learning about the Cherokee? And all these other things I would love to know? I am sorry to bombard you with so many questions but you are the first one I know that has been able to answer any of my many questions on this. Thank you so much for your help. Best Wishes, Charlotte

Charlotte, The Cherokee tribe originated in the Carolinas. What is nowTennesee No and So Carolina. Many Cherokee hid before the trail of tears and remained in the Carolinas. Some went into what is now Kentucky. As far as The cherokee using "White" mans names. From what i have found , in most cases the names were changed mostly as a result of racial intermixing. I believe that some were also changed in order to try to aviod predjudice by Whites. The term "Black Dutch" was used in my Family . The term was used by white families with Indian blood to deny their Indian heritage because it was not fashionable to be Indian at that time or place. In some cases where indians were placed in orphanages, they were not allowed even to speak their own language. The Cherokee were the only tribe th have a written language. They were exceptionally adaptable to the White way of life. My impression is that they were a tribe of intelligence and were perhaps a bit more civilized than many other tribes of that era. Tracing your Indian Heritage is difficult without any records. There were at least Five different Indian rolls from different times and places. Most indians eventually married into, or, were a product of earlier marriages to whites. Tracing your white line will ultimately lead you to clues to your Indian side. Bobby

Bobby, Thank you for your help. Sad thing is that my family didn't keep any records. Why? My Dad used to tell me about my great grandfather from County Clare Ireland when I was very small but when I clamored for more. But he never would give me anymore info as time goes on I think it was because he didn't know anymore himself. I have come so far since I first started as I had to do it from scratch. Thank heavens I have met some cousins on line that have given more info that helped with the search. More or less what happened is we kind of pooled our info and went from there and I have found so much for all of us as I almost live and breathe my genealogy. I have done it mostly as you have suggested with web sites, mailing list and all. The thing you did suggest I haven't done is join the surname list and I will do this tonight. I think the Indian Heritage part has thrown me a bit as there were name changes and all. So this is what I am trying to get a grip on at the moment of just how to figure this one out. I know what you mean about using all this as clues when found as I too like paper work to prove it is the right family. Thank you so much, Charlotte

Charlotte, There many many ways to find your Ancestors. The best place to start is at the beginning. Find as much information you can from current living relatives. Ask if you have a Family bible. Use the Social security death index. If you can find an area ie. state , county or city. search city records,Cemetary records, birth, death and Cencus. Many are online . Jion a rootsweb Surname list for your particular surnames, you may fid a cousin that has already done your research. I have spent years searching mine and im still at it. I was lucky enough to have a few famous ancestors, many aren't so fortunate. There are mamy good geneaology sites online, use them. I have found many clues online, but consider them only clues, until, I verify them personally. Searching for your ancestors can be very disappionting and also very rewarding. Keep records. Make a plan and begin your search. If I can help you in any way please feel free to ask. Godspeed Bobby

Bobby, How did you get access to your family lines on your Indian Ancestry? I am new at this and I know there were supposed to be Indian bloodlines in my family. But I have no idea on how to research this or where to even start? I noticed you gave the name the white man gave to some of your people. How did this come about? I guess what I am asking here is if your family members had a choice of what name they took or was it they were told this was their new name? The branch of my family that was supposed to have this Heritage is on my Borders and Gregory side. I have seen a picture of my great Grandmother Tennie Gregory and she did look very much to be of Indian bloodlines. Of course I think maybe one of her parent's most likely her mother Minerva had to the one with the lineage. My Tennie and her husband William H. Borders moved sometime after 1916 to Muskogee, OK and both are supposed to have died here. But since I do not know the exact date of their death and OK does not have a death Index I am at a brick wall here. I guess what I am trying to ask you is how did you find your original Indian names to link them up with the white mans name for them? Where do I start to try and find this info? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also one more question as I know most of my Border and Gregory's started in TN. Did Cherokee tribes from one state move to another state and live with the Cherokee tribes there? I am sorry for all these questions but I just found out not to long ago that I am supposed to have these bloodlines. Thank you Best Wishes, Charlotte Holleran