Pat No, I haven't done any research on Indian customs. But I have searched the Dawes Rolls for my relatives. I don't believe there is really any difference between Indian women, Caucasian women, African-American women or Hispanic women. Or any other race. In the earlier days when a woman of any race had a baby out of wedlock, she gave the baby her maiden name. At least that is the way it happened in McIntosh County and my wife says it happened that way in Texas where she grew up. But I am very interested in any information you may have on Indian women's habits of having children out of wedlock and or any other Indian customs you may have read about. Dean...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "pmunroe" <pmunroe@sbcglobal.net> To: <OKMCINTO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 12:22 AM Subject: Re: [OKMCINTO] Blair Family > Dean, I'm so glad that you asked this question, have you done any > research on Indian customs and or lifestyles ? I would be more than > happy > to share what info I have gathered on the subject, taken from Dawes > inrollment applications, census, etc. > For those of you that are interested in the subject lets start a > discusion on this forum, I think it would make a great topic, after all > this > is not your tipical text book info. > If anyone else out there has any info on the subject please jump in > here and share with the rest of us. If you are in the dark then jump in > with a question and we will all do our best to find an answer for you . > In > the mean time I will be sorting through my info looking for source > material > that I have stored somewhere in this mess of mine. > > Pat Munroe > Board Admin. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean and Nell Duke" <deanandnell@intellex.com> > > >> I'm wondering where Pat Munroe got her information about the sex habits >> of >> Indian women. I had never heard that one before and I've lived around > here >> for almost 70 years. >> Dean in McIntosh County........ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "pmunroe" <pmunroe@sbcglobal.net> >> > Well, this seems to be a common occurance in that part of the county. >> > I >> > have found many women living alone, that is to say no husband but many >> > children. This is usually do to there being some Indian blood in the >> > woman >> > in question. (grin) There were many Indian women still living by the > old >> > customs in those days and it looks as though some never gave up the old >> > ways. (grin)It makes it very hard to trace beyond her and her children >> > because her children usually went by her name and not the fathers name, >> > just >> > one of the old customes. >> > I will see what info I have on the Traylors and send it your way if it >> > looks >> > usefull. >> > >> > Pat Munroe >> > Board Admin. > > > > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Yes Dean, your right in the respect that race has nothing to do with the fact that children born out of wedlock are usually given the mothers surname butttttt the difference in Indian woman living by the old customs is that an Indian woman need not be married to have children and still be looked upon with respect . From what little I know and have read is that Indian woman could have as many children as they wished without the bennifit of a husband if they chose to do so and this was common practice just as many men exspecially the Chiefs were allowed to have many wives. This may not be the case with all tribes but most of the 5 major tribes as I have read lived in this manner. Also according to one of the old customs unions were matrilinier (Sp. I don't use sp. check) I hope that I can explain this correctly . The children of an Indian woman living by the old customs were her children with or without the presents of a husband, they belonged to the mothers clan or tribe not the fathers. The Indian women still living by the old customs even into the late 1800's and after such time as they had taken on surnames would give thier children thier surnames just as a woman today would do. The difference though comes with the way it was looked upon by the Indians, it was a way of life for them that carried no shame, the shame was from the white man . I have an application to the Cherokee Nation made in 190? that I have in this mess somewhere, that the person submitting the affidavit says his grandmother was Cherokee and lived by the old customs having several children but never took a husband and always went by the surname of (????? ) as did all of her children. Upon researching this person and locating them on the census from 1830 till 1880 I did find the Applicant to be tell the truth, there was never a man in the household, the woman was always listed as HOH, I have found many other females living the same way also . More later Pat Munroe Board Admin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean and Nell Duke" <deanandnell@intellex.com> > Pat > No, I haven't done any research on Indian customs. But I have searched the > Dawes Rolls for my relatives. > I don't believe there is really any difference between Indian women, > Caucasian women, African-American women or Hispanic women. Or any other > race. In the earlier days when a woman of any race had a baby out of > wedlock, she gave the baby her maiden name. At least that is the way it > happened in McIntosh County and my wife says it happened that way in Texas > where she grew up. > But I am very interested in any information you may have on Indian women's > habits of having children out of wedlock and or any other Indian customs you > may have read about. > Dean......