I am a Okie and proud of it, but was raised in the Sunshine State. My folks always talked about some ones Homestead or farm by their names. I thought it was interesting, as you learn of lot of names of people who lived in the area you were born in and some of your ancestors lived and died. The towns were, Binger, Eakley, Oney, and Anadarko which is in Caddo County [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [OKGEN ] Need an old Okie history buff > Gene > You've got to quit assuming that either people aren't Okie's or their City > Folk or some other such noncence (sp)....As I stated...my dad was born & > raised in Okla. Chelsea to be specific...but his mom or grandparents > (grandma mainly) didn't always refer to a location or old Homestead as > "somebody's" Place. He grew up in the late 40's on (born '43) and they > didn't mention places like this & yes they lived in the country & yes his > mom & grandma were raised on farm's owned, rented or sharecropped. > Some people talked & still talk like that........some don't. > > Alli > > > Then you was probably a city girl. I'm from the little town of Rush > > Springs and nearly every farm around there is known as "somebody's" place. > > My grandfather finally settled down in the late 1930's after roaming > around > > MO, AR, TX and OK for about 50 years. He bought 50 acres southwest of Rush > > Springs. His son bought a section of land that adjoined his. He moved to > CA > > in the 50s. I went to school with a girl that lived there in the 60s and > she > > referred to it as the Phillips place. > > > > > > Gene > > > > > ==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > Online sources for locating a Town or County > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/locatetown.htm >

I grew up in Southeastern Oklahoma in the 1960s and 70's.  There was only one paved road in our area.  None of the dirt roads had any kind of street signs at all.  After being gone for several years, I was amazed and delighted when I saw that all the streets had been named and signs posted.  The county or whoever had ask the locales of my parents generation to name the roads so they did. The roads were all named for people that lived there when I was growing up.  Well, except Purkey Farm Road.  It had always been know as the Purkey farm even though the Purkey's had passed on before I met them.  (She had been my parents school teacher) We owned the "Old Teaque Place," and we even called it that.  (There was not a house there, it was a cow pasture) Now the road sign says Teaque Road. 

Alli, Gene's right. I've never been to OK ( would love to go) but...I've seen it many times where a place or an old homestead is known by a name from the past. Another person that could verify this as a true thing is Dennis - both Dennis and Gene really know OK and share their knowledge freely. I didn't think Gene was even responding to your email when he stated this. I think his informative reply was to someone else that also lives there. Becky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alli" <[email protected]> > Gene > You've got to quit assuming that either people aren't Okie's or their City > Folk or some other such noncence (sp)....As I stated...my dad was born & > raised in Okla. Chelsea to be specific...but his mom or grandparents > (grandma mainly) didn't always refer to a location or old Homestead as > "somebody's" Place. He grew up in the late 40's on (born '43) and they > didn't mention places like this & yes they lived in the country & yes his > mom & grandma were raised on farm's owned, rented or sharecropped. > Some people talked & still talk like that........some don't. > > Alli > > > Then you was probably a city girl. I'm from the little town of Rush > > Springs and nearly every farm around there is known as "somebody's" place. > > My grandfather finally settled down in the late 1930's after roaming > around > > MO, AR, TX and OK for about 50 years. He bought 50 acres southwest of Rush > > Springs. His son bought a section of land that adjoined his. He moved to > CA > > in the 50s. I went to school with a girl that lived there in the 60s and > she > > referred to it as the Phillips place. > > > > > > Gene

Gene You've got to quit assuming that either people aren't Okie's or their City Folk or some other such noncence (sp)....As I stated...my dad was born & raised in Okla. Chelsea to be specific...but his mom or grandparents (grandma mainly) didn't always refer to a location or old Homestead as "somebody's" Place. He grew up in the late 40's on (born '43) and they didn't mention places like this & yes they lived in the country & yes his mom & grandma were raised on farm's owned, rented or sharecropped. Some people talked & still talk like that........some don't. Alli > > Then you was probably a city girl. I'm from the little town of Rush > Springs and nearly every farm around there is known as "somebody's" place. > My grandfather finally settled down in the late 1930's after roaming around > MO, AR, TX and OK for about 50 years. He bought 50 acres southwest of Rush > Springs. His son bought a section of land that adjoined his. He moved to CA > in the 50s. I went to school with a girl that lived there in the 60s and she > referred to it as the Phillips place. > > > > Gene

The interesting thing here is that the "place" is always referred to by the last family that lived there & not usually the current occupant. Strange. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Philips" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [OKGEN ] Need an old Okie history buff > At 06:32 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: > >Hello, just to clarify, I've been a native Okie for all my 50 years and I > >have never heard of a rented or sharecropped a farm being referred to it by > >the owner's name. > >Debbie > > Then you was probably a city girl. I'm from the little town of Rush Springs and nearly every farm around there is known as "somebody's" place. My grandfather finally settled down in the late 1930's after roaming around MO, AR, TX and OK for about 50 years. He bought 50 acres southwest of Rush Springs. His son bought a section of land that adjoined his. He moved to CA in the 50s. I went to school with a girl that lived there in the 60s and she referred to it as the Phillips place. > > Gene > > > ==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! > http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! >

At 06:32 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: >Hello, just to clarify, I've been a native Okie for all my 50 years and I >have never heard of a rented or sharecropped a farm being referred to it by >the owner's name. >Debbie Then you was probably a city girl. I'm from the little town of Rush Springs and nearly every farm around there is known as "somebody's" place. My grandfather finally settled down in the late 1930's after roaming around MO, AR, TX and OK for about 50 years. He bought 50 acres southwest of Rush Springs. His son bought a section of land that adjoined his. He moved to CA in the 50s. I went to school with a girl that lived there in the 60s and she referred to it as the Phillips place. Gene

This is one of the reasons I like this list we talk about ever thing. My Father would set by the wood stove and tell of his past. and it was always in 1924 when we lived on the Hoylt Place or 1934 we lived on the old man Reed The river got up and washed away the crop and we lost ever thing. We moved to the Smith place . Just because People moved a lot was not because they were lazy. The land owner farmed his best land and share cropped the worst, the land owner got one 3rd for the use of his land and a old house the share cropper had to go to the bank borrow the money of the seed and feed for his horses the bank would not loan a lot so the man and his family would have to work for other farmers to help feed the family. That is why they moved a lot trying to better them selfs Gene

You probably had to have parents that sharecropped! Mine did. Dad recalls living on the Denby place in western Oklahoma, and the Rushe (sp?) place, possibly others. He recalls his life history by which 'place' they lived on. One theory about why they kept moving on is that (supposedly) his dad didn't do any work but sent the kids (as young as 5) into the fields to do it, and he was therefore looked down on by the neighbors (as well he should). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [OKGEN ] Need an old Okie history buff > Hello, just to clarify, I've been a native Okie for all my 50 years and I > have never heard of a rented or sharecropped a farm being referred to it by > the owner's name. > Debbie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gene Philips" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:34 PM > Subject: Re: [OKGEN ] Need an old Okie history buff > > > > At 03:39 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: > > >Does anyone know of a place near Chelsea, Tulsa, Pryor Creek called Nap's > Place? > > >It (at that time) had a Large Orchard on it. And they had borders & hired > hands living with them. > > >At 19 she lived 5 1/2 miles North of Chelsea (abt. 1926) What area would > be there? Then & Now? > > > > Apparently you aren't a native Okie or you would understand the reference > to Nap's Place. When you rented or sharecropped a farm, you always referred > to it by the owner's name. Therefore Nap's Place was owned by someone named > Nap, more likely Knapp. If Mr Nap or Knapp was deceased, it would be known > as the Old Nap Place even if you now owned it. > > > > 5-1/2 miles north of Chelsea will place you 1-1/2 miles within Nowata or > Craig county depending on which way from north you deviated. The road that > runs north from Chelsea jogs to the east at the Nowata County line about > 2/10 of a mile and is the countyline between Nowata and Craig County. > > > > >Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile > from an old coal mine. > > > > The only Dog Creek I found in this area is northwest of Inola about 3 > miles. The mine could be any one of the hundreds of mines around this area. > I visited cousins in Inola once and I saw evidence everywhere of the mines. > Piles of slag & coal was all over. > > > > Gene > > > > > > > > > > ==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > > OKGenWeb - The Place To Start Your Oklahoma Search > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/index.htm > > > > > ==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > Search the Social Security Death Index online for FREE! > http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > The most powerful SSDI search engine on the Internet! >

Sounds like my grandpa.......didn't move a lot because of, but did use his kids as free slave labor & would beat them if they didn't work like he wanted. Alli his dad didn't > do any work but sent the kids (as young as 5) into the fields to do it, and > he was therefore looked down on by the neighbors (as well he should). >

My Uncle (great or so) had a Turkey Farm up in Ks. & their whole road (that their place was on) was & still is called the Turkey Farm Road, even though its got a different name now. along the road that turns at BUTLER's homestead or Place. But what some may not be aware of (& you don't have to be an Okie) that just because some places, such as Nap's Place, Butler's place, are in reference to a homestead/farm.............they aren't always referred to that. They could actually be a town or a landmark of sort's. That's (for some reason) what I was thinking Nap's Place was. It didn't dawn on me that it was a homestead (should have remembered the Turkey Farm Road before now & that would have gave me a similarity to Nap's) Alli :0)

Thanks alot for this info. Gene. It'll help a bunch. My Great Grandma refused to move to Dog Creek Hills because she thought that all of the outlaws stayed there. She lived there a year before she found out. :) Alli > Inola is due east of Tulsa on US 412. If you look at a map you will see that US 412, I-44 and Hwy 88 form a triangle with Inola, Tulsa and Clarmore at the corners. Dog Creek is right in the river. The Verdigres River has a big bend near the center of the triangle. Dog creek flows in the river at this point. It meanders up through Claremore. Lake Claremore is formed from Dog Creek. It continues on north to it's source east of Foyil near the Mayes County line. Which coincidently is about 8 miles south of Chelsea. There is also a Little Dog Creek which has a source near the same spot. > > Gene

>Hello, just to clarify, I've been a native Okie for all my 50 years and I >have never heard of a rented or sharecropped a farm being referred to it by >the owner's name. >Debbie Hi, I've been a misplaced Okie [stranded and meandering in the state of Minnesota now for 34 years out of 45. I remember the BUTLER's place, [no where near the county in question] Mr. BUTLER at one time had owned the majority of the small town of Farris in yet another county of Oklahoma. I share this information as help in understanding another piece of a puzzle over history and how to locate positions within past-tightly-knitted communities. I agree with Gene and his explanation over the KNAPP's Place ... my family always referred to the store in our small community at that time as just that, BUTLER's Place and the property held by the BUTLER's as just that [BUTLER's] along with the boarding house. Matter-a-fact, in reference to the cemetery my grandparents are buried in, I have to locate the BUTLER's homestead and that's exactly how we ask for or give directions to the cemetery, go S. along the road that turns at BUTLER's homestead or Place. It's still being reference! d as just that and I believe in 1998, Mr. BUTLER [who is now called (OLD Mr. BUTLER) was still alive at well over 90 years old. Shelia

Hello, just to clarify, I've been a native Okie for all my 50 years and I have never heard of a rented or sharecropped a farm being referred to it by the owner's name. Debbie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Philips" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 4:34 PM Subject: Re: [OKGEN ] Need an old Okie history buff > At 03:39 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: > >Does anyone know of a place near Chelsea, Tulsa, Pryor Creek called Nap's Place? > >It (at that time) had a Large Orchard on it. And they had borders & hired hands living with them. > >At 19 she lived 5 1/2 miles North of Chelsea (abt. 1926) What area would be there? Then & Now? > > Apparently you aren't a native Okie or you would understand the reference to Nap's Place. When you rented or sharecropped a farm, you always referred to it by the owner's name. Therefore Nap's Place was owned by someone named Nap, more likely Knapp. If Mr Nap or Knapp was deceased, it would be known as the Old Nap Place even if you now owned it. > > 5-1/2 miles north of Chelsea will place you 1-1/2 miles within Nowata or Craig county depending on which way from north you deviated. The road that runs north from Chelsea jogs to the east at the Nowata County line about 2/10 of a mile and is the countyline between Nowata and Craig County. > > >Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile from an old coal mine. > > The only Dog Creek I found in this area is northwest of Inola about 3 miles. The mine could be any one of the hundreds of mines around this area. I visited cousins in Inola once and I saw evidence everywhere of the mines. Piles of slag & coal was all over. > > Gene > > > > > ==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > OKGenWeb - The Place To Start Your Oklahoma Search > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/index.htm >

Inola is due east of Tulsa on US 412. If you look at a map you will see that US 412, I-44 and Hwy 88 form a triangle with Inola, Tulsa and Clarmore at the corners. Dog Creek is right in the river. The Verdigres River has a big bend near the center of the triangle. Dog creek flows in the river at this point. It meanders up through Claremore. Lake Claremore is formed from Dog Creek. It continues on north to it's source east of Foyil near the Mayes County line. Which coincidently is about 8 miles south of Chelsea. There is also a Little Dog Creek which has a source near the same spot. Gene At 05:00 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: > No I'm a mis-born/placed Okie. My dad is a Native Okie......Well, this >narrowed it down less than I thought it would ;) >Craig county would make sense as they were married there I believe. >Inola? Where's that by? (My boys have relocated my atlas or I'd look it up) >Thanks Gene you've been a big help. >Now I just gotta figure out where Nap/Knapp's place might have been. From >the sounds of her story (life) they owned several places throughout her >time. >Alli :) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Philips" <[email protected]> > > Apparently you aren't a native Okie or you would understand the reference >to Nap's Place. When you rented or sharecropped a farm, you always referred >to it by the owner's name. Therefore Nap's Place was owned by someone named >Nap, more likely Knapp. If Mr Nap or Knapp was deceased, it would be known >as the Old Nap Place even if you now owned it. >> >> 5-1/2 miles north of Chelsea will place you 1-1/2 miles within Nowata or >Craig county depending on which way from north you deviated. The road that >runs north from Chelsea jogs to the east at the Nowata County line about >2/10 of a mile and is the countyline between Nowata and Craig County. >> >> >Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile >from an old coal mine. >> >> The only Dog Creek I found in this area is northwest of Inola about 3 >miles. The mine could be any one of the hundreds of mines around this area. >I visited cousins in Inola once and I saw evidence everywhere of the mines. >Piles of slag & coal was all over. >> >> Gene > > > > >==== OKGEN Mailing List ==== > Saturday at 9pm-10pm CST >>>>>>>>> OKGenWeb Chat <<<<<<<< >http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/helplinks/chat/chat.htm

Oklahoma chat 9pm Saturday - Oklahoma time. Saturday chat reminders are sent to various mailing list (check headers above) and the general public is invited. Feel free to pass the notice on to other list. Tonight's chat will be general in nature and open to anyone interested in attending. Bring your questions and we'll try to help. >>>>> Follow this link so you don't end up in another chat room. http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/helplinks/chat/spinchat.htm See our SPINCHAT HOW-TO page with graphics if you need assistance. http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/helplinks/chat/chat.htm If you tried to join before without success, I hope you will try again. If the name you choose to login as ask for a password, try another unique name. Some using Netscape Navigator are not able to access the page. I have 4.7 and have no problem accessing the site. Marti OKGenWeb State Coordinator http://www.usgenweb.org/ok

At 03:39 PM 2/1/03, you wrote: >Does anyone know of a place near Chelsea, Tulsa, Pryor Creek called Nap's Place? >It (at that time) had a Large Orchard on it. And they had borders & hired hands living with them. >At 19 she lived 5 1/2 miles North of Chelsea (abt. 1926) What area would be there? Then & Now? Apparently you aren't a native Okie or you would understand the reference to Nap's Place. When you rented or sharecropped a farm, you always referred to it by the owner's name. Therefore Nap's Place was owned by someone named Nap, more likely Knapp. If Mr Nap or Knapp was deceased, it would be known as the Old Nap Place even if you now owned it. 5-1/2 miles north of Chelsea will place you 1-1/2 miles within Nowata or Craig county depending on which way from north you deviated. The road that runs north from Chelsea jogs to the east at the Nowata County line about 2/10 of a mile and is the countyline between Nowata and Craig County. >Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile from an old coal mine. The only Dog Creek I found in this area is northwest of Inola about 3 miles. The mine could be any one of the hundreds of mines around this area. I visited cousins in Inola once and I saw evidence everywhere of the mines. Piles of slag & coal was all over. Gene

No I'm a mis-born/placed Okie. My dad is a Native Okie......Well, this narrowed it down less than I thought it would ;) Craig county would make sense as they were married there I believe. Inola? Where's that by? (My boys have relocated my atlas or I'd look it up) Thanks Gene you've been a big help. Now I just gotta figure out where Nap/Knapp's place might have been. From the sounds of her story (life) they owned several places throughout her time. Alli :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Philips" <[email protected]> > Apparently you aren't a native Okie or you would understand the reference to Nap's Place. When you rented or sharecropped a farm, you always referred to it by the owner's name. Therefore Nap's Place was owned by someone named Nap, more likely Knapp. If Mr Nap or Knapp was deceased, it would be known as the Old Nap Place even if you now owned it. > > 5-1/2 miles north of Chelsea will place you 1-1/2 miles within Nowata or Craig county depending on which way from north you deviated. The road that runs north from Chelsea jogs to the east at the Nowata County line about 2/10 of a mile and is the countyline between Nowata and Craig County. > > >Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile from an old coal mine. > > The only Dog Creek I found in this area is northwest of Inola about 3 miles. The mine could be any one of the hundreds of mines around this area. I visited cousins in Inola once and I saw evidence everywhere of the mines. Piles of slag & coal was all over. > > Gene

http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/census.htm Can't find.

Ok........ I was "surfing" yesterday & checked out the Roger's County site (first time). Gotta say.......I like it..Wendy did a good job & sorry but I don't remember the new coordinator for it...but its great. I checked out the link for the 1920 Census.....and FINALLY figured out why I couldn't find my grandparents.........at least part of the reason. 1. They weren't old enough to be married then (sorta) they were 14 & 15. And apparently neither side moved into Rogers county by then. BUT! They were still near by. And now I need some help with some "specifics". Here's some vague stuff...then it'll get into a little more specific. When she(my grandma) was little (she was born in 1907 NE Pryor) the first place she remember's living was close to a school house & a country cemetary. (probably near teens)they lived near enough to a coal mine to work (they walked or rode horses). At 13 they lived about one block of a country Store. (Now I know in either Chelsea or Tulsa that was how far away she lived as an adult..but aren't both of them in Rogers Co.?) -K- Here's where the Okie History comes in to play even more... Does anyone know of a place near Chelsea, Tulsa, Pryor Creek called Nap's Place? It (at that time) had a Large Orchard on it. And they had borders & hired hands living with them. At 19 she lived 5 1/2 miles North of Chelsea (abt. 1926) What area would be there? Then & Now? Where would Dog Creek hills be? At one place they lived was a qtr. mile from an old coal mine. She got married in 1931 so by this time they were in Chelsea.. Thanks for any help with the locations Alli Researching: A-B-R-A-M, M-c-C-A-L-L, M-c-K-A-Y, J-O-H-N-S-O-N, P-H-A-R-I-S-S A-D-A-M-S, T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N, L-O-V-E-L-L, W-H-I-T-E Indep. Educational Children's Book Consultant www.ubah.com/D1525 NEW Indep. Pampered Chef Consultant www.pamperedchef.com Indep. AdvoCare Distributor (Herbal) www.advocare.com

Thanks for the offer Sharon........ I'm sure that both are good tools to have, the biggest complaint I have (other than their price) :) is that they lead you on making you think that you can access something (in this case census records) & then right before you open it........there's that register/subscription page & if you don't join you don't see it. Course with my family it doesn't seem to matter anyway........our LDS Family History Center has a membership & I still couldn't find my family in the 1910 census. Grr. If you have a minute Sharon & if you can find Abram/s Look in the earliest Census that's out/available... The Head of the family would be Allie Carl (Carol) &/or Mittie Mae (Johnson) They were both born in the Indian Territory, Okla. I looked in the Abram Soundex for 1920 (I believe) couldn't find them They've been in Okla. since the mid-late 1800's So, I know they're there. They were in Chelsea & Tulsa area. I'll probably just go into the Gen. library next week, its a 1/2 hr. drive for me now & I'm lazy & don't want to take the boys (5 & 2) w/me unless I just have to :) Thanks for any help Alli :) > Alli, I have ancestory.com and genealogy.com and > couldn't live without either one. I watch my grandson > and not able to go to OHS anymore to search census > records. > Let me know who you want to find and I will look for > you. > Sharon C