Go to this link and you can bring up the location of Buffalo Head, Oklahoma in Atoka County. http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnis/web_query.gnis_web_query_form Hope this helps. Pamela Stephenson Canadian County, OK foaly@worldnet.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jleflore65@aol.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] Re: OK-CEMETERIES-D Digest V02 #145 > Thank goodness for people like you Dennis and Sandy and the others of you who > care! Hopefully, my efforts will help some. I've been working on the > cemetery at Caddo - but I'm new at this and live in OKC so it's slow going. > My ancestors lived in the Caddo, Boggy Depot, Fort Towson area, so I have a > vested interest in these cemeteries. > > Has anyone ever heard of Buffalo Head, which no longer exists, but was > supposed to have been in the general area of Doaksville? I would like to see > if there is a cemetery there. > > Anyway, let me be one that says thank you to those of you who have and are > devoting time from your busy lives to leave something for the generations to > come. In my books, that's a REAL contribution. > > Suzie > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery list, use > OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if > you are on the Digest list. > If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the Oklahoma > Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Thank goodness for people like you Dennis and Sandy and the others of you who care! Hopefully, my efforts will help some. I've been working on the cemetery at Caddo - but I'm new at this and live in OKC so it's slow going. My ancestors lived in the Caddo, Boggy Depot, Fort Towson area, so I have a vested interest in these cemeteries. Has anyone ever heard of Buffalo Head, which no longer exists, but was supposed to have been in the general area of Doaksville? I would like to see if there is a cemetery there. Anyway, let me be one that says thank you to those of you who have and are devoting time from your busy lives to leave something for the generations to come. In my books, that's a REAL contribution. Suzie

Yes, the bucket is a great idea -- the last time I was in a cemetery the only thing I had was a can of coffee and that wasn't tall enough!! In a message dated 8/26/02 8:38:35 AM, Jleflore65@aol.com writes: << Dennis, thank you so much for the information on registering old graves. That was a tremendous help. And your tip about taking the bucket to sit on is great! These old bones would appreciate that. Do you still go out and register graves? Have you ever tried metal detecting? Thank you again. Suzie >>

I have done most of what you said -- but still had problems getting good photos -- thanks again for the info to me and the add'l to others Kay

I bought chalk -- but forgot to use it. Wasn't sure how it would work. I will have to try that. Thanks In a message dated 8/25/02 6:21:22 PM, VANHORNEHT@aol.com writes: << I have a suggestion - If you take sidewalk chalk and lay it on the flat side of the chalk - wipe it across the info you want and take a really good picture of it. I have done this many time and this does not disturb the stone at all. My picture came out really good. Tanya >>

Thanks for the info -- I did want to clean them for photos!! In a message dated 8/25/02 6:10:53 PM, mudman@cableone.net writes: << Kay, It is a good idea not to use any product to clean a tombstone. Unless you want to take a picture there is no reason to clean it. Just about anything you do to it will not be long lasting or be kind to the structure of the stone. In the very old marble stones just about everything will cause damage. The marble is very soft and the granules have been exposed to the weather for so many years that they crumble easily into tiny granules. If you must use something make sure that it is a Neutral pH of 7 and under no circumstances use an acid or caustic liquid on the stone. This will destroy the surface of the stone and erode the carvings. There are radical people who tell you not to even touch a stone. This is like having a rare coin and putting it in the safety deposit box so nobody can enjoy it. I am of the persuasion that the only time you should clean a stone is to photograph or register it. I have registered 40 cemeteries in Oklahoma with over 30,000 names and have had to clean a few just to be able to read them. The only time I clean a stone is when it is covered with lichens and moss. For removal of these I used a plastic ice scraper for a car window. It is so soft it will not harm the stone but it will leave the moss in the carvings. The carvings should not be scraped with a hard object as this WILL break off small bits of the stone to the point where they cannot be read in future times. So, To clean a stone just for the sake of good housekeeping? Forget it. It will do more harm than good and very little good at that. Dennis Host - Murray County, OK >>

We have a familey member stone that was extremely hard to read. Clean the stone of dust and other things that will brush off or will come off with water. Let dry completely. By using lithographic ink and a real good small sable artist brush you can re-letter the stone where letters were origionally cut. You must be very careful and take your time. This ink is permanent.

Mary Jane Clevenger, born 1842 in Kentucky, died supposedly February 12, 1926 at Tecumseh, Pottowatomie County, Oklahoma. I've looked through all the listed cemeteries of Pottowatomie County and didn't find her. Can some one please help me? Her husband was Alexander Clevenger and may also be buried near her. Bud Caudle

Dennis Muncrief writes: "You will run into a lot of people who will email you telling you what a wonderful job you did and then ream your butt over a typo. These people just sit back and like little birds in a nest wait for a worm to drop in their mouth. They have never been in a cemetery in their life except to bury Grandma. You will sweat your rear off in the summer or freeze it off in the winter, have leg aches, back aches, head aches from the bright sun or chills from the cold wind and rain but you will 'always' be the only one out there. Get used to it and the constant kibitzing from those who refuse to move out of their easy chairs. This work is just like church. There are a few who have to do everything and 90% sit back and complain. You will hear them say that they live in another state and "don't get back there much anymore". I guess that stops them from registering a cemetery where they 'do' live?" I gather you had a bad day Dennis. Believe me I know exactly what you mean. Some members of the Caddo county gen. soc. and I are now canvassing all of the Caddo county cemeteries (79). I have personally been working on the Anadarko cemetery for quite a while and have been working when it is triple digit weather and working when I had to wear gloves and a heavy coat to keep from freezing. The dumbest thing I did was working out there in the rain while it was lightening! I haven't tried that one again. :) And yes I get the pitty little complaints of one misspelled name etc. They simply don't realize how much work goes into doing this type of research. People can't understand why it takes so long to do a cemetery. Well Anadarko has around 300 blocks with space for 200+ burials in each block. That is a lot of burials! Plus a lot of them don't have tombstones so I am researching cemetery records, funeral home records, newspapers on microfilm for obits or death notices going back over 100 years and asking next of kin for info. That takes a long time, but I want to identify everyone that I can. We have a lot of paupers and they aren't even listed on the cemetery records, but thanks to the old funeral home records I have identified most of them. I have found MANY MANY MANY that are not listed on the cemetery records and the cemetery employees are not even interested. That is what makes me angry. But that is okay, I will never quit as I love it and I hope you will not let these silly complaints keep you from doing something that you obviously enjoy. ~~Sandy Miller~~

Just wanted to say thanks again to All you wounderfull people who have been able to help me with Obits and photos and cemetery information as without you I would definetly not be where I am today! Thanks Dennis for the headstone photo of my greatgreat grandfathers WOW headstone photo in Davis,Oklahoma Nancy Charlton for gracemont info and helping find my connection to her Garrett through my Ingram and Williams family. And Sandy, I believe I also was able to obtain much info on obits for my whitleys,Cope ect.. also cametery burial info. Thanks again to all of you keep up the Great work and Please people No Whinning people do this mostly in there own spare time and money . God Bless You all Lizzy Dennis Muncrief wrote: >Sandy, >Been there done that. Hang in there girl. The pay is great!!!!!!!! > >No the cemetery employees don't give a whit about the interred. Their >biggest worry is if the grass has to be mowed again this week. The sexton >in Davis, Ok is a bit different. He is a good guy and really cares about >his "people". > >Yeah I had a bad day. I would say that 99.9% of the emails I get are >favorable, but this morning I got three that really twisted me off with >their petty bitching over trivial things. They should try this stuff >sometimes for the fun of it. > >And, Yes!, I have been recording graves in a cemetery during a >thunderstorm - but not for long. The lightning scares the dickens out of >me. The cold wind that makes your eyes tear so badly you can't see, the >wind and the blowing dust that makes it nearly impossible to breathe, the >hot, sultry days where you don't want to leave a shade tree, the cold, >drizzly days when your knuckles are so cold that you can't write anymore >don't bother me. I can handle everything except lightning. > >Dennis > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <skmiller@webtv.net> >To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:39 PM >Subject: [OK-CEM] Re: OK-CEMETERIES-D Digest V02 #145 > > >>Dennis Muncrief writes: >> >>"You will run into a lot of people who will email you telling you what a >>wonderful job you did and then ream your butt over a typo. These people >>just sit back and like little birds in a nest wait for a worm to drop in >>their mouth. They have never been in a cemetery in their life except to >>bury Grandma. >> >>You will sweat your rear off in the summer or freeze it off in the >>winter, have leg aches, back aches, head aches from the bright sun or >>chills from the cold wind and rain but you will 'always' be the only one >>out there. Get used to it and the constant kibitzing from those who >>refuse to move out of their easy chairs. This work is just like church. >>There are a few who have to do everything and 90% sit back and complain. >> >>You will hear them say that they live in another state and "don't get >>back there much anymore". I guess that stops them from registering a >>cemetery where they 'do' live?" >> >>I gather you had a bad day Dennis. Believe me I know exactly what you >>mean. Some members of the Caddo county gen. soc. and I are now >>canvassing all of the Caddo county cemeteries (79). I have personally >>been working on the Anadarko cemetery for quite a while and have been >>working when it is triple digit weather and working when I had to wear >>gloves and a heavy coat to keep from freezing. The dumbest thing I did >>was working out there in the rain while it was lightening! I haven't >>tried that one again. :) And yes I get the pitty little complaints of >>one misspelled name etc. They simply don't realize how much work goes >>into doing this type of research. People can't understand why it takes >>so long to do a cemetery. Well Anadarko has around 300 blocks with space >>for 200+ burials in each block. That is a lot of burials! Plus a lot of >>them don't have tombstones so I am researching cemetery records, funeral >>home records, newspapers on microfilm for obits or death notices going >>back over 100 years and asking next of kin for info. That takes a long >>time, but I want to identify everyone that I can. We have a lot of >>paupers and they aren't even listed on the cemetery records, but thanks >>to the old funeral home records I have identified most of them. I have >>found MANY MANY MANY that are not listed on the cemetery records and the >>cemetery employees are not even interested. That is what makes me angry. >>But that is okay, I will never quit as I love it and I hope you will not >>let these silly complaints keep you from doing something that you >>obviously enjoy. ~~Sandy Miller~~ >> >> >>==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >>If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery >> >list, use > >>OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or >> >OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if > >>you are on the Digest list. >>If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the >> >Oklahoma > >>Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html >>Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website >> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > >>============================== >>To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >> >go to: > >>http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >> >> > > > >==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== >NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political >announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, >etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. >Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net >Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

> From: "Dennis Muncrief" <mudman@cableone.net> > > Don't even think about it!!! Remember that these old stones were cut fresh > from the earth and were still soft for hand carving that was done a hundred > thirty years ago. I totally agree Dennis!!!

Debra, I thank you also. I have a baby's grave that needs a marker and his parents can't afford one. Thanks again. Sue Henry in hot and steamy Kansas

Jearldene, You are most welcome. I am Pres. of a small rural cemetery in Garland Co., AR and found that this was simple to make and at a cost we could afford. Like most rural cemeteries we depend on donations for all cost involved in the upkeep, so this was a way to get the job done. The tombstone itself is a block used for landscaping and sea wall construction. Stood upright it looks like a small tombstone. When complete they are larger than footstones and readable. You can even go to more expense by having decorations applied, these turn out beautiful. Depends on what you want to spend. Just use your imagination to create whatever you choose. I saw one with fish and deer for a man's grave that was really nice. So you can really personalize them for little cost. Check with any company in your town that does awards and trophies and they should help you make a selection, and may even have some ideas of their own to share. Debra Garner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerri Hodde" <chodde@hot.rr.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] make a new stone > Debra, > What a WONDERFUL thing to do per tombstones. > I recently visited some of my DALTON graves in Lincoln Co.Ok.To my surprize > this little cemetery was in terrible shape.I live about 8 hours driving away > .I just sat down and cryed.There are 13 of my family there with No tombstone > .Thank you so very much for supplying this information > > Jearldene > Texas > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Debra Garner" <dougg@hsnp.com> > To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:36 PM > Subject: [OK-CEM] make a new stone > > > > If you cannot afford to replace the old marker, try this: > > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~handcosd/Cem/tombtips.html > > to add to the existing marker. > > > > These are made for about $20 and easy to make and transport. > > > > Debra Slater Garner > > dougg@hsnp.com > > > > > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > political > > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for > removal. > > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett > kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Debra, What a WONDERFUL thing to do per tombstones. I recently visited some of my DALTON graves in Lincoln Co.Ok.To my surprize this little cemetery was in terrible shape.I live about 8 hours driving away .I just sat down and cryed.There are 13 of my family there with No tombstone .Thank you so very much for supplying this information Jearldene Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debra Garner" <dougg@hsnp.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: [OK-CEM] make a new stone > If you cannot afford to replace the old marker, try this: > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~handcosd/Cem/tombtips.html > to add to the existing marker. > > These are made for about $20 and easy to make and transport. > > Debra Slater Garner > dougg@hsnp.com > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

If you cannot afford to replace the old marker, try this: http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~handcosd/Cem/tombtips.html to add to the existing marker. These are made for about $20 and easy to make and transport. Debra Slater Garner dougg@hsnp.com

Great suggestions. Thanks Is there a good source to have an old tombstone re-engraved? -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Muncrief [mailto:mudman@cableone.net] Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:58 PM To: OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones Suzie, You asked a lot of questions so this reply will be a long one. I don't own a GPS but wish I did. I think they are great. I've never heard of Buffalo Head but there are a lot of places I have never heard of. I just recently found Toad Suck, C.N., I.T. The Folsoms are a very famous family in the Choctaws so you will run across the name often. I am not familiar with Ft. Towson but I am very familiar with Ft. Washita. I have been there many time and done much research on the post. I have just completed a book on the history of Ft. Arbuckle and there is a central theme on the cemeteries of these old post. In each of them there are 3 burial grounds. Since these post were U.S. garrisons there is a cemetery for Federal troops, one for the civilians and another for the Confederate troops that died during the occupation of 1861 - 1865. The cemetery at Ft. Arbuckle has never been located. The cemetery at Ft. Washita is clearly marked and the confederate cemetery is about a 1/4 mile west of the other burial grounds. This may be the same at Ft. Towson. As I said before, I would never clean a tombstone for any reason except to register or photograph it. I have used chalk on two occasions to photograph a stone. Use only white chalk. The others contain permanent color pigment. But, before you use the chalk, run your finger around the carvings and try to 'read' them with your finger. You will be surprised how many times this works. People were usually buried in family plots. When you find a stone you cannot read, look at the stones on the left and right of the stone. Very often you can get clues to the surname from those stones. Another thing that will help you read the carvings is to go to the old cemeteries in the afternoon. The Christian beliefs of most of the settlers caused them to be buried facing the East. The carvings will be on the West side of the stone. In the afternoon, the Sun will be at your back and the face of the stone will be in full sunlight. But people were buried in every direction way-back-when so this doesn't work everytime. A point of safety is to take a cell phone when you go to an old cemetery. A woman should NEVER go to an out-of-the-way or remote cemetery without a partner. I never took a cell phone with me, I carried a .38 Smith & Wesson. No kidding! I have run into some really weird dudes out in the boonies doing cemeteries. They remind me of the cast from "Deliverance". Go to the cemeteries that are overgrown in the winter time. This part of the country is loaded with rattlesnakes, copperheads, ticks and chiggers. Take some water and a sandwich with you and a good shade hat in the summer. A relatively inexpensive digital camera is a must and be sure to carry an extra memory disk. My camera will take 96 good photos on one disk and I carry two disks. That is more photos than I want to take anyway. When I was registering the cemeteries, I carried a 5-gallon bucket with my "possibles". I carried a small mirror that I could reflect light back across the surface of the stone and read the carvings. This worked quite well. Another reason to carry the bucket is that it gives you a place to sit when your legs get tired. You sure don't want to sit on those old stones. They will topple over and break your leg and then you will be in a fine mess. Talcum powder sprinkled on the carvings works as the powder stays in the carvings. The lichens and moss were removed with a plastic ice scraper when they were very heavy on a stone. I also had a gallon milk jug with water and would just wash the stone with a sponge to remove loose debris. I used the water and a wallpaper brush with short-natural bristles to clean the stone. NEVER use a brush with metal bristles on an old stone. I guarantee you it will destroy the carvings. Wash the chalk with the water. Water wont hurt the stone as it has been rained on a million times already. I also carried 6 large nails and a roll of yellow masons twine so I could lay out a section in the old cemeteries. Push the nails into the ground with about an inch sticking up above the ground, take the twine and string it around the nail heads to make an area where you want to register the graves. This is important in very OLD cemeteries as the people were buried in any direction. There were no neat rows or sections as you see in modern cemeteries. After you record the graves inside the yellow string boundary, move the string and nails to a new section and begin the next section. Until I started doing this I missed a lot of graves or recorded the same grave two or three times. This saved me many return trips to the cemeteries for corrections. I have done cemeteries that consisted of one stone all the way up to 8,000 graves. Also remember that the modern cemeteries have sextons and they will give you a map of the cemetery. You can work these with the map. Remember, never pour ANY liquid on an old tombstone except water. You don't know what is in it. I have taken dozens of photos of old stones for people across the country and have NEVER had to do any more to get a good photo than that described above. I have taken literally thousands of photos of tombstones for different websites and have never had to do more than that listed above. This is what I have learned about reading & registering cemeteries over the years. Hope it will help you. Good Luck, Dennis Host - Murray County, OK http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmurray/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jleflore65@aol.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones > Dennis, how wonderful that you have registered over 30,000 names and 40 > cemeteries. Thank you for the information on cleaning off the graves that > you're going to photograph. What do you think about using washable chalk on > the gravestones in order to photograph them? I am just getting started in > finding old graves and photographing them. I am related to Greenwood > LeFlore, a Choctaw Indian Chief in Mississippi and the Mannings/Harris > families from the Caddo/Boggy Depot area. I went to Greenwood, MS and > photographed the grave stones in the cemetery at Malmaison, which was > Greenwood LeFlore's mansion, which burned down in 1943. Have you ever come > across any of these names? I've also photographed their grave stones in > Caddo and Forbis LeFlore's stone in Boggy Depot, but I can't find Forbis > LeFlore's wife, Rebecca Fisher. I think she may have died in Buffalo Head, > OK, which no longer exists. I found on the USGS site a map showing where it > used to be. Have you ever heard of it? > > I'm sorry to bombard you with questions, but you are the first person I've > talked to who does this. Do you know if there are 2 cemeteries at Fort > Towson? I went to the Fort (park area) and the man in the visitors center > there told me the old cemetery was at the north end of the current cemetery > there which was a few miles west and north of the fort. I went there and it > does look like the north end of the cemetery is older. However, I read > somewhere that there is a row of Confederate soldiers in the old Fort Towson > cemetery and I did not find them. I found another map that shows 2 > completely different cemeteries at Fort Towson, one of which is labeled "old > cemetery" and appears to be almost next to the old fort. Do you know > anything about them? > > One last question and I will stop bothering you. I purchased a GPS handheld > unit and am trying to figure out if I can enter coordinates for an old town > or cemetery into the thing and then have it show me when I am at that > location. Do you use one? > > Thank you for answering Kay's message and any help you can give me or any > suggestions, would really be appreciated. I'm getting hooked on what I call > "tombstone hopping and photographing". > > Suzie Harris > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery list, use OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if you are on the Digest list. If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the Oklahoma Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dennis, thank you so much for the information on registering old graves. That was a tremendous help. And your tip about taking the bucket to sit on is great! These old bones would appreciate that. Do you still go out and register graves? Have you ever tried metal detecting? Thank you again. Suzie

Boy, you had some good suggestions - thanks for all the information ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Muncrief Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 9:27 AM To: OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones Suzie, You asked a lot of questions so this reply will be a long one. I don't own a GPS but wish I did. I think they are great. I've never heard of Buffalo Head but there are a lot of places I have never heard of. I just recently found Toad Suck, C.N., I.T. The Folsoms are a very famous family in the Choctaws so you will run across the name often. I am not familiar with Ft. Towson but I am very familiar with Ft. Washita. I have been there many time and done much research on the post. I have just completed a book on the history of Ft. Arbuckle and there is a central theme on the cemeteries of these old post. In each of them there are 3 burial grounds. Since these post were U.S. garrisons there is a cemetery for Federal troops, one for the civilians and another for the Confederate troops that died during the occupation of 1861 - 1865. The cemetery at Ft. Arbuckle has never been located. The cemetery at Ft. Washita is clearly marked and the confederate cemetery is about a 1/4 mile west of the other burial grounds. This may be the same at Ft. Towson. As I said before, I would never clean a tombstone for any reason except to register or photograph it. I have used chalk on two occasions to photograph a stone. Use only white chalk. The others contain permanent color pigment. But, before you use the chalk, run your finger around the carvings and try to 'read' them with your finger. You will be surprised how many times this works. People were usually buried in family plots. When you find a stone you cannot read, look at the stones on the left and right of the stone. Very often you can get clues to the surname from those stones. Another thing that will help you read the carvings is to go to the old cemeteries in the afternoon. The Christian beliefs of most of the settlers caused them to be buried facing the East. The carvings will be on the West side of the stone. In the afternoon, the Sun will be at your back and the face of the stone will be in full sunlight. But people were buried in every direction way-back-when so this doesn't work everytime. A point of safety is to take a cell phone when you go to an old cemetery. A woman should NEVER go to an out-of-the-way or remote cemetery without a partner. I never took a cell phone with me, I carried a .38 Smith & Wesson. No kidding! I have run into some really weird dudes out in the boonies doing cemeteries. They remind me of the cast from "Deliverance". Go to the cemeteries that are overgrown in the winter time. This part of the country is loaded with rattlesnakes, copperheads, ticks and chiggers. Take some water and a sandwich with you and a good shade hat in the summer. A relatively inexpensive digital camera is a must and be sure to carry an extra memory disk. My camera will take 96 good photos on one disk and I carry two disks. That is more photos than I want to take anyway. When I was registering the cemeteries, I carried a 5-gallon bucket with my "possibles". I carried a small mirror that I could reflect light back across the surface of the stone and read the carvings. This worked quite well. Another reason to carry the bucket is that it gives you a place to sit when your legs get tired. You sure don't want to sit on those old stones. They will topple over and break your leg and then you will be in a fine mess. Talcum powder sprinkled on the carvings works as the powder stays in the carvings. The lichens and moss were removed with a plastic ice scraper when they were very heavy on a stone. I also had a gallon milk jug with water and would just wash the stone with a sponge to remove loose debris. I used the water and a wallpaper brush with short-natural bristles to clean the stone. NEVER use a brush with metal bristles on an old stone. I guarantee you it will destroy the carvings. Wash the chalk with the water. Water wont hurt the stone as it has been rained on a million times already. I also carried 6 large nails and a roll of yellow masons twine so I could lay out a section in the old cemeteries. Push the nails into the ground with about an inch sticking up above the ground, take the twine and string it around the nail heads to make an area where you want to register the graves. This is important in very OLD cemeteries as the people were buried in any direction. There were no neat rows or sections as you see in modern cemeteries. After you record the graves inside the yellow string boundary, move the string and nails to a new section and begin the next section. Until I started doing this I missed a lot of graves or recorded the same grave two or three times. This saved me many return trips to the cemeteries for corrections. I have done cemeteries that consisted of one stone all the way up to 8,000 graves. Also remember that the modern cemeteries have sextons and they will give you a map of the cemetery. You can work these with the map. Remember, never pour ANY liquid on an old tombstone except water. You don't know what is in it. I have taken dozens of photos of old stones for people across the country and have NEVER had to do any more to get a good photo than that described above. I have taken literally thousands of photos of tombstones for different websites and have never had to do more than that listed above. This is what I have learned about reading & registering cemeteries over the years. Hope it will help you. Good Luck, Dennis Host - Murray County, OK http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmurray/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jleflore65@aol.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones > Dennis, how wonderful that you have registered over 30,000 names and 40 > cemeteries. Thank you for the information on cleaning off the graves that > you're going to photograph. What do you think about using washable chalk on > the gravestones in order to photograph them? I am just getting started in > finding old graves and photographing them. I am related to Greenwood > LeFlore, a Choctaw Indian Chief in Mississippi and the Mannings/Harris > families from the Caddo/Boggy Depot area. I went to Greenwood, MS and > photographed the grave stones in the cemetery at Malmaison, which was > Greenwood LeFlore's mansion, which burned down in 1943. Have you ever come > across any of these names? I've also photographed their grave stones in > Caddo and Forbis LeFlore's stone in Boggy Depot, but I can't find Forbis > LeFlore's wife, Rebecca Fisher. I think she may have died in Buffalo Head, > OK, which no longer exists. I found on the USGS site a map showing where it > used to be. Have you ever heard of it? > > I'm sorry to bombard you with questions, but you are the first person I've > talked to who does this. Do you know if there are 2 cemeteries at Fort > Towson? I went to the Fort (park area) and the man in the visitors center > there told me the old cemetery was at the north end of the current cemetery > there which was a few miles west and north of the fort. I went there and it > does look like the north end of the cemetery is older. However, I read > somewhere that there is a row of Confederate soldiers in the old Fort Towson > cemetery and I did not find them. I found another map that shows 2 > completely different cemeteries at Fort Towson, one of which is labeled "old > cemetery" and appears to be almost next to the old fort. Do you know > anything about them? > > One last question and I will stop bothering you. I purchased a GPS handheld > unit and am trying to figure out if I can enter coordinates for an old town > or cemetery into the thing and then have it show me when I am at that > location. Do you use one? > > Thank you for answering Kay's message and any help you can give me or any > suggestions, would really be appreciated. I'm getting hooked on what I call > "tombstone hopping and photographing". > > Suzie Harris > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery list, use OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if you are on the Digest list. If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the Oklahoma Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Sandy, Been there done that. Hang in there girl. The pay is great!!!!!!!! No the cemetery employees don't give a whit about the interred. Their biggest worry is if the grass has to be mowed again this week. The sexton in Davis, Ok is a bit different. He is a good guy and really cares about his "people". Yeah I had a bad day. I would say that 99.9% of the emails I get are favorable, but this morning I got three that really twisted me off with their petty bitching over trivial things. They should try this stuff sometimes for the fun of it. And, Yes!, I have been recording graves in a cemetery during a thunderstorm - but not for long. The lightning scares the dickens out of me. The cold wind that makes your eyes tear so badly you can't see, the wind and the blowing dust that makes it nearly impossible to breathe, the hot, sultry days where you don't want to leave a shade tree, the cold, drizzly days when your knuckles are so cold that you can't write anymore don't bother me. I can handle everything except lightning. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: <skmiller@webtv.net> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: [OK-CEM] Re: OK-CEMETERIES-D Digest V02 #145 > Dennis Muncrief writes: > > "You will run into a lot of people who will email you telling you what a > wonderful job you did and then ream your butt over a typo. These people > just sit back and like little birds in a nest wait for a worm to drop in > their mouth. They have never been in a cemetery in their life except to > bury Grandma. > > You will sweat your rear off in the summer or freeze it off in the > winter, have leg aches, back aches, head aches from the bright sun or > chills from the cold wind and rain but you will 'always' be the only one > out there. Get used to it and the constant kibitzing from those who > refuse to move out of their easy chairs. This work is just like church. > There are a few who have to do everything and 90% sit back and complain. > > You will hear them say that they live in another state and "don't get > back there much anymore". I guess that stops them from registering a > cemetery where they 'do' live?" > > I gather you had a bad day Dennis. Believe me I know exactly what you > mean. Some members of the Caddo county gen. soc. and I are now > canvassing all of the Caddo county cemeteries (79). I have personally > been working on the Anadarko cemetery for quite a while and have been > working when it is triple digit weather and working when I had to wear > gloves and a heavy coat to keep from freezing. The dumbest thing I did > was working out there in the rain while it was lightening! I haven't > tried that one again. :) And yes I get the pitty little complaints of > one misspelled name etc. They simply don't realize how much work goes > into doing this type of research. People can't understand why it takes > so long to do a cemetery. Well Anadarko has around 300 blocks with space > for 200+ burials in each block. That is a lot of burials! Plus a lot of > them don't have tombstones so I am researching cemetery records, funeral > home records, newspapers on microfilm for obits or death notices going > back over 100 years and asking next of kin for info. That takes a long > time, but I want to identify everyone that I can. We have a lot of > paupers and they aren't even listed on the cemetery records, but thanks > to the old funeral home records I have identified most of them. I have > found MANY MANY MANY that are not listed on the cemetery records and the > cemetery employees are not even interested. That is what makes me angry. > But that is okay, I will never quit as I love it and I hope you will not > let these silly complaints keep you from doing something that you > obviously enjoy. ~~Sandy Miller~~ > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery list, use > OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if > you are on the Digest list. > If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the Oklahoma > Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Don't even think about it!!! Remember that these old stones were cut fresh from the earth and were still soft for hand carving that was done a hundred thirty years ago. They are now dried out and very brittle. You might as well take a sledge hammer to it for all the good you would do. If you just have to put up a new stone - do it. Put up a new stone - and leave the old one alone. You are inviting disaster. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davis, Terry D." <TDDavis@MarathonOil.com> To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones > Great suggestions. Thanks Is there a good source to have an old tombstone re-engraved? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dennis Muncrief [mailto:mudman@cableone.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 10:58 PM > To: OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones > > > Suzie, > You asked a lot of questions so this reply will be a long one. > > I don't own a GPS but wish I did. I think they are great. > > I've never heard of Buffalo Head but there are a lot of places I have never > heard of. I just recently found Toad Suck, C.N., I.T. > > The Folsoms are a very famous family in the Choctaws so you will run across > the name often. > > I am not familiar with Ft. Towson but I am very familiar with Ft. Washita. > I have been there many time and done much research on the post. I have just > completed a book on the history of Ft. Arbuckle and there is a central theme > on the cemeteries of these old post. > > In each of them there are 3 burial grounds. Since these post were U.S. > garrisons there is a cemetery for Federal troops, one for the civilians and > another for the Confederate troops that died during the occupation of 1861 - > 1865. > > The cemetery at Ft. Arbuckle has never been located. The cemetery at Ft. > Washita is clearly marked and the confederate cemetery is about a 1/4 mile > west of the other burial grounds. This may be the same at Ft. Towson. > > As I said before, I would never clean a tombstone for any reason except to > register or photograph it. I have used chalk on two occasions to photograph > a stone. Use only white chalk. The others contain permanent color pigment. > But, before you use the chalk, run your finger around the carvings and try > to 'read' them with your finger. You will be surprised how many times this > works. > > People were usually buried in family plots. When you find a stone you > cannot read, look at the stones on the left and right of the stone. Very > often you can get clues to the surname from those stones. > > Another thing that will help you read the carvings is to go to the old > cemeteries in the afternoon. The Christian beliefs of most of the settlers > caused them to be buried facing the East. The carvings will be on the West > side of the stone. In the afternoon, the Sun will be at your back and the > face of the stone will be in full sunlight. But people were buried in every > direction way-back-when so this doesn't work everytime. > > A point of safety is to take a cell phone when you go to an old cemetery. A > woman should NEVER go to an out-of-the-way or remote cemetery without a > partner. I never took a cell phone with me, I carried a .38 Smith & Wesson. > No kidding! I have run into some really weird dudes out in the boonies > doing cemeteries. They remind me of the cast from "Deliverance". > > Go to the cemeteries that are overgrown in the winter time. This part of > the country is loaded with rattlesnakes, copperheads, ticks and chiggers. > Take some water and a sandwich with you and a good shade hat in the summer. > > A relatively inexpensive digital camera is a must and be sure to carry an > extra memory disk. My camera will take 96 good photos on one disk and I > carry two disks. That is more photos than I want to take anyway. > > When I was registering the cemeteries, I carried a 5-gallon bucket with my > "possibles". I carried a small mirror that I could reflect light back > across the surface of the stone and read the carvings. This worked quite > well. Another reason to carry the bucket is that it gives you a place to > sit when your legs get tired. You sure don't want to sit on those old > stones. They will topple over and break your leg and then you will be in a > fine mess. > > Talcum powder sprinkled on the carvings works as the powder stays in the > carvings. The lichens and moss were removed with a plastic ice scraper when > they were very heavy on a stone. > > I also had a gallon milk jug with water and would just wash the stone with a > sponge to remove loose debris. I used the water and a wallpaper brush with > short-natural bristles to clean the stone. NEVER use a brush with metal > bristles on an old stone. I guarantee you it will destroy the carvings. > Wash the chalk with the water. Water wont hurt the stone as it has been > rained on a million times already. > > I also carried 6 large nails and a roll of yellow masons twine so I could > lay out a section in the old cemeteries. Push the nails into the ground > with about an inch sticking up above the ground, take the twine and string > it around the nail heads to make an area where you want to register the > graves. This is important in very OLD cemeteries as the people were buried > in any direction. There were no neat rows or sections as you see in modern > cemeteries. > > After you record the graves inside the yellow string boundary, move the > string and nails to a new section and begin the next section. Until I > started doing this I missed a lot of graves or recorded the same grave two > or three times. This saved me many return trips to the cemeteries for > corrections. I have done cemeteries that consisted of one stone all the way > up to 8,000 graves. Also remember that the modern cemeteries have sextons > and they will give you a map of the cemetery. You can work these with the > map. > > Remember, never pour ANY liquid on an old tombstone except water. You don't > know what is in it. I have taken dozens of photos of old stones for people > across the country and have NEVER had to do any more to get a good photo > than that described above. I have taken literally thousands of photos of > tombstones for different websites and have never had to do more than that > listed above. > > This is what I have learned about reading & registering cemeteries over the > years. Hope it will help you. > > Good Luck, > Dennis > Host - Murray County, OK > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okmurray/ > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Jleflore65@aol.com> > To: <OK-CEMETERIES-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 8:37 PM > Subject: Re: [OK-CEM] cleaning tombstones > > > > Dennis, how wonderful that you have registered over 30,000 names and 40 > > cemeteries. Thank you for the information on cleaning off the graves that > > you're going to photograph. What do you think about using washable chalk > on > > the gravestones in order to photograph them? I am just getting started in > > finding old graves and photographing them. I am related to Greenwood > > LeFlore, a Choctaw Indian Chief in Mississippi and the Mannings/Harris > > families from the Caddo/Boggy Depot area. I went to Greenwood, MS and > > photographed the grave stones in the cemetery at Malmaison, which was > > Greenwood LeFlore's mansion, which burned down in 1943. Have you ever come > > across any of these names? I've also photographed their grave stones in > > Caddo and Forbis LeFlore's stone in Boggy Depot, but I can't find Forbis > > LeFlore's wife, Rebecca Fisher. I think she may have died in Buffalo > Head, > > OK, which no longer exists. I found on the USGS site a map showing where > it > > used to be. Have you ever heard of it? > > > > I'm sorry to bombard you with questions, but you are the first person I've > > talked to who does this. Do you know if there are 2 cemeteries at Fort > > Towson? I went to the Fort (park area) and the man in the visitors center > > there told me the old cemetery was at the north end of the current > cemetery > > there which was a few miles west and north of the fort. I went there and > it > > does look like the north end of the cemetery is older. However, I read > > somewhere that there is a row of Confederate soldiers in the old Fort > Towson > > cemetery and I did not find them. I found another map that shows 2 > > completely different cemeteries at Fort Towson, one of which is labeled > "old > > cemetery" and appears to be almost next to the old fort. Do you know > > anything about them? > > > > One last question and I will stop bothering you. I purchased a GPS > handheld > > unit and am trying to figure out if I can enter coordinates for an old > town > > or cemetery into the thing and then have it show me when I am at that > > location. Do you use one? > > > > Thank you for answering Kay's message and any help you can give me or any > > suggestions, would really be appreciated. I'm getting hooked on what I > call > > "tombstone hopping and photographing". > > > > Suzie Harris > > > > > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, > political > > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for > removal. > > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett > kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website > http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > If you wish to subscribe to or unsubscribe from the Oklahoma Cemetery list , use > OK-CEMETERIES-l-request@rootsweb.com or OK-CEMETERIES-d-request@rootsweb.com if > you are on the Digest list. > If your Ancestors migrated to or through Oklahoma - register them on the Oklahoma > Migration Page http://oklahomamigration.homestead.com/OMIndex.html > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== OK-CEMETERIES Mailing List ==== > NOTICE: Posting of virus warnings, test messages, chain letters, political > announcements, current events, items for sale, personal messages, flames, > etc. (in other words - spam) is NOT ALLOWED and will be grounds for removal. > Consideration for exceptions, contact Kathleen Burnett kathleenburnett@earthlink.net > Oklahoma Cemeteries Volunteer Website http://www.rootsweb.com/~okcemete/okcem.htm > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >