Thank you for your reply! So now I have a John (dob Ohio 1838) and Mary in addition to John Albert (dob in Ohio 8 Mar 1843) and Barbara! Great grandfather was born in Germany 17 Jul 1842, and must have been in Sidney some time in 1867, I calculate, because their first child was born 27 Apr 1868. I do not have a map of Ohio, so I do not know how close Sidney is to either Pomeroy, Meigs or Piqua, Miami County. It seems that John had moved from Sidney not long after 1840, and John Albert had moved some time before 1870. I do not want to overburdon you, and am ready to give up on this for a while. I am just afraid you will not be able to find out any more about the Cyphers, but it seems that this will be easier for you to research, and I would be grateful for any crumb of information. I do have a bit of info for you from Ken "taxieman" Baker (who may be known to you, also). His e-mail stated 2 Jul 2004 that "Barbara was born in baveria, Germany 1/13/1847, and died 3/27/1927 and is buried with her husband John B. Holder in Graceland, Sidney, Ohio...Mary was born in Bavaria, Germany 1/13/1848 and died 3/27/1927. She married George Linder (his second marriage), They lived in Clinton Twp, Shelby county, Ohio...George was moved from Calvery cemetry to Graceland cemetry." Regarding your question about how I had your name, I had saved the message below: Mary/Jim Renner <jrenner1@woh.rr.com> wrote: I work one block from the Shelby County, Ohio, Health Department and one block from the Shelby County Courthouse. I can do limited look-ups (free) as my time permits. I go over on my lunch hour alot. If you will give me the name, approximate birth/death date or at least a range of years, I can at least check to let you know if there is a record. I can let you know what is on the record or if you want you can obtain a certified copy by writing to the health dept. Only certified copies are available from the health dept. and the cost is $15 each. For older birth records, I can check the records at the courthouse which is more time consuming but I am willing to do what I can as my time permits. Mary ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 Sandra Franz

Sandra: I was able at noon today to find both death certificates and obituaries for Mary Linder and Barbara Holder. Death certificates: Holder, Barbara - female, white, widow Spouse - John Holder Residence 406 E. Poplar, Sidney Born 27 Dec 1843 in Germany Date of death December 18, 1922 Age at death 78 years 11 months 11 days Housewife Father John Seibert born in Germany, mother unknown Informant John Holder of Sidney Cause of death brohchitis, contributing factor senility Buried Graceland Cemetery Fred Salm & Sons, undertaker Linder, Mary - female, white, widow Residence 316 E. Poplar Street, Sidney Spouse - George Linder Born January 13, 1849 in Germany Date of death March 27, 1927 Age at death 78 years, 2 months, 14 days Housewife Parents - both unknown, both born in Germany Informant - John Holder Cause of death - heart disease, cardial insufficiency due to old age Fred Salm & Sons, undertaker If you will give me your mailing address, I'll mail copies of the two obits for these ladies to you. The obituary of Barbara indicates her husband was John Holder and her two sons were John and George Holder of Sidney. Mary Linder is also mentioned as a sister but there are no other relatives mentioned. The obituary of Mary Linder indicates she was the widow of George Linder. It indicates Mary came to this country when she was 8 years old and that she was the last of a family of three girls raised by Peter Wagner. Both of these obituaries indicate funeral services were held at Holy Angeles Catholic Church in Sidney. Peter Wagner was a prominent member of this church. I am betting there is a family relationship between Peter and the Seibers/Seibert girls. I would suggest you contact Holy Angels to see if they have any further records. Contact info can be found at http://www.holyangelssidney.com/contact.htm. Also, I would suggest you contact Mr. Tangeman of Salm, McGill & Tangeman Funeral Home in Sidney. This funeral home has evolved and changed names over the years and was formerly Fred Salm & Sons and has handled the majority of the Sidney Catholic funerals for many years. Their web site is: http://www.salm-mcgillandtangemanfh.com/index.htm I was at a meeting of the Shelby County Genealogical Society that was held at Salm, McGill & Tangeman last fall and Mr. Tangeman generously allowed members of the society to veiw many books of old funeral records. He may be able to find records of funerals for these two ladies. I would also suggest that you try to find anyone researching the Wagner family. I will look through some back issues of Shelbyana, publication of the Shelby Co. Gene. Society, to see if I can come up with any more info. or someone researching the Wagner family. I was not able to get to the probate court to check on George Linder's date of death but hope to get to that later this week and then hopefully I will be able to find an obituary for him. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Franz Phillips" <sfranz7@sbcglobal.net> To: <OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] Re: Birth Index??? > Thank you for your reply! So now I have a John (dob Ohio 1838) and Mary > in addition to John Albert (dob in Ohio 8 Mar 1843) and Barbara! Great > grandfather was born in Germany 17 Jul 1842, and must have been in Sidney > some time in 1867, I calculate, because their first child was born 27 Apr > 1868. I do not have a map of Ohio, so I do not know how close Sidney is > to either Pomeroy, Meigs or Piqua, Miami County. It seems that John had > moved from Sidney not long after 1840, and John Albert had moved some time > before 1870. I do not want to overburdon you, and am ready to give up on > this for a while. > > I am just afraid you will not be able to find out any more about the > Cyphers, but it seems that this will be easier for you to research, and I > would be grateful for any crumb of information. I do have a bit of info > for you from Ken "taxieman" Baker (who may be known to you, also). His > e-mail stated 2 Jul 2004 that "Barbara was born in baveria, Germany > 1/13/1847, and died 3/27/1927 and is buried with her husband John B. > Holder in Graceland, Sidney, Ohio...Mary was born in Bavaria, Germany > 1/13/1848 and died 3/27/1927. She married George Linder (his second > marriage), They lived in Clinton Twp, Shelby county, Ohio...George was > moved from Calvery cemetry to Graceland cemetry." > > Regarding your question about how I had your name, I had saved the message > below: > > Mary/Jim Renner <jrenner1@woh.rr.com> wrote: > I work one block from the Shelby County, Ohio, Health Department > and one block from the Shelby County Courthouse. I can do limited > look-ups (free) as my time permits. I go over on my lunch hour > alot. If you will give me the name, approximate birth/death date or at > least > a range of years, I can at least check to let you know if there is a > record. > I can let you know what is on the record or if you want you can obtain > a certified copy by writing to the health dept. Only certified copies are > available from the health dept. and the cost is $15 each. For older > birth records, I can check the records at the courthouse which is more > time consuming but I am willing to do what I can as my time permits. > > Mary > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > Sandra Franz > > > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Thank you again! I should send checks for the death certificates and obituaries, shouldn't I? My address is: Sandra Franz, 1130 W Cornelia Ave, Unit I, Chicago, IL, 60657. I sent you a couple of e-mails earlier, and am hoping they will be helpful. Mary/Jim Renner <jrenner1@woh.rr.com> wrote: Sandra: I was able at noon today to find both death certificates and obituaries for Mary Linder and Barbara Holder. Death certificates: Holder, Barbara - female, white, widow Spouse - John Holder Residence 406 E. Poplar, Sidney Born 27 Dec 1843 in Germany Date of death December 18, 1922 Age at death 78 years 11 months 11 days Housewife Father John Seibert born in Germany, mother unknown Informant John Holder of Sidney Cause of death brohchitis, contributing factor senility Buried Graceland Cemetery Fred Salm & Sons, undertaker Linder, Mary - female, white, widow Residence 316 E. Poplar Street, Sidney Spouse - George Linder Born January 13, 1849 in Germany Date of death March 27, 1927 Age at death 78 years, 2 months, 14 days Housewife Parents - both unknown, both born in Germany Informant - John Holder Cause of death - heart disease, cardial insufficiency due to old age Fred Salm & Sons, undertaker If you will give me your mailing address, I'll mail copies of the two obits for these ladies to you. The obituary of Barbara indicates her husband was John Holder and her two sons were John and George Holder of Sidney. Mary Linder is also mentioned as a sister but there are no other relatives mentioned. The obituary of Mary Linder indicates she was the widow of George Linder. It indicates Mary came to this country when she was 8 years old and that she was the last of a family of three girls raised by Peter Wagner. Both of these obituaries indicate funeral services were held at Holy Angeles Catholic Church in Sidney. Peter Wagner was a prominent member of this church. I am betting there is a family relationship between Peter and the Seibers/Seibert girls. I would suggest you contact Holy Angels to see if they have any further records. Contact info can be found at http://www.holyangelssidney.com/contact.htm. Also, I would suggest you contact Mr. Tangeman of Salm, McGill & Tangeman Funeral Home in Sidney. This funeral home has evolved and changed names over the years and was formerly Fred Salm & Sons and has handled the majority of the Sidney Catholic funerals for many years. Their web site is: http://www.salm-mcgillandtangemanfh.com/index.htm I was at a meeting of the Shelby County Genealogical Society that was held at Salm, McGill & Tangeman last fall and Mr. Tangeman generously allowed members of the society to veiw many books of old funeral records. He may be able to find records of funerals for these two ladies. I would also suggest that you try to find anyone researching the Wagner family. I will look through some back issues of Shelbyana, publication of the Shelby Co. Gene. Society, to see if I can come up with any more info. or someone researching the Wagner family. I was not able to get to the probate court to check on George Linder's date of death but hope to get to that later this week and then hopefully I will be able to find an obituary for him. Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra Franz Phillips" To: Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] Re: Birth Index??? > Thank you for your reply! So now I have a John (dob Ohio 1838) and Mary > in addition to John Albert (dob in Ohio 8 Mar 1843) and Barbara! Great > grandfather was born in Germany 17 Jul 1842, and must have been in Sidney > some time in 1867, I calculate, because their first child was born 27 Apr > 1868. I do not have a map of Ohio, so I do not know how close Sidney is > to either Pomeroy, Meigs or Piqua, Miami County. It seems that John had > moved from Sidney not long after 1840, and John Albert had moved some time > before 1870. I do not want to overburdon you, and am ready to give up on > this for a while. > > I am just afraid you will not be able to find out any more about the > Cyphers, but it seems that this will be easier for you to research, and I > would be grateful for any crumb of information. I do have a bit of info > for you from Ken "taxieman" Baker (who may be known to you, also). His > e-mail stated 2 Jul 2004 that "Barbara was born in baveria, Germany > 1/13/1847, and died 3/27/1927 and is buried with her husband John B. > Holder in Graceland, Sidney, Ohio...Mary was born in Bavaria, Germany > 1/13/1848 and died 3/27/1927. She married George Linder (his second > marriage), They lived in Clinton Twp, Shelby county, Ohio...George was > moved from Calvery cemetry to Graceland cemetry." > > Regarding your question about how I had your name, I had saved the message > below: > > Mary/Jim Renner wrote: > I work one block from the Shelby County, Ohio, Health Department > and one block from the Shelby County Courthouse. I can do limited > look-ups (free) as my time permits. I go over on my lunch hour > alot. If you will give me the name, approximate birth/death date or at > least > a range of years, I can at least check to let you know if there is a > record. > I can let you know what is on the record or if you want you can obtain > a certified copy by writing to the health dept. Only certified copies are > available from the health dept. and the cost is $15 each. For older > birth records, I can check the records at the courthouse which is more > time consuming but I am willing to do what I can as my time permits. > > Mary > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > Sandra Franz > > > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx Sandra Franz