Mark I do not know if this of any use to you or not but in my consoildated names I have the following: * The SHROYER , surname is my connection * God bless, Lorri_french@yahoo.com Descendants of Cora May Dodds Generation No. 1 1. Cora May1 Dodds (Joseph E.A, JosephusB) was born May 04, 1874 in Shelby Co., OH, and died April 19, 1895 in Meridian, Ada Co., Idaho. She married Andrew Fay Botkin February 22, 1894 in Shelby Co., OH. He was born July 27, 1866 in Clark Co., OH, and died March 24, 1953 in Meridian, Ada Co., Idaho. More About Cora May Dodds: Residence: Memorial Records of Shelby County, Ohio 1819-1975; Adams & Mozley; Gateway Press; Baltimore; 1977, p 238 Source(s):: May 17, 2002, Jan Botkin Therkildsen (Arvada, CO) More About Andrew Fay Botkin: Source(s):: May 17, 2002, Jan Botkin Therkildsen (Arvada, CO); William Brackney, Denise Bond * "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee". Isaiah 26:3 Regrets and worries keep us from plowing straight rows in God's kingdom. Putting our hands to the plow and focusing on Jesus ensures a bountiful crop of service. Jesus says, "If you want to follow Me, don't keep looking back!" INSIGHT: "Don't allow the howls of your past to drown out the whisper of My future for you." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

Mark, If I understand you correctly, your family was born in one of the 13 original colonies, hence your statement "second generation colonial". Ohio became a state in 1803. As a result, it doesn't make sense that 2 of them would be listed in the "number of persons not naturalized" column. It sounds like this is a mistake made by the enumerator or that the Ohio family didn't know what this question meant and answered incorrectly. My only other thought is to check the naturalization laws in effect in 1820. Possibly the parents (living in Ohio) couldn't be considered citizens because of deeds or some other issue related to their parent's status. I did a quick google search and didn't find anything. You might consider subscribing to one of the rootsweb Lists associated with naturalization laws or census questions. Rootsweb claims to have 30,000 lists ... so you may find something that fits. Let us know what you find. Becky

Mark, Sorry to jump in mid-stream in your conversation. I've been reading the Shelby County census records for a couple of years and have learned a few thing that might relate to your question about not being able to reconcile the number of family members that you "know" about with the number of household members in the pre-1850 censuses. One thing I've learned is that, at least in the case with some of my ancestors, multiple family groups (i.e. father and sons, brothers, or even cousins) arrived in the US, bought 1 farm, and it appears that only the father or eldest brother is listed as the head of household. Additionally, they may have brought more children from the old country, than you know about ... and these children died before there are any records. There were also a number of epidemics. Surviving families often took in other people, particularly orphaned children. This too will inflate the number of members of a household to more than what you expect for your particular family. This was particularly true in the 1850 census which was taken soon after the 1849 cholera epidemic. Does this help? Becky

BODKIN/BOTKIN I've reviewed the Shelby Co. USGENWEB page for the cemeteries in Shelby but couldn't find a date for when each cemetery was founded. My Charles Botkin was the first will listed in the Shelby Co. will book started in 1820. Does anyone know of a list of cemeteries open in 1820? We can't find his gravesite and knowing where not to look would help. Thanks, Mark

Becky, Every little bit helps. The problem we're having is with the column "foreigners not naturalized". It appears to imply the number listed in the column is to record anyone born outside the US or, perhaps more specifically to the period, outside the colonies. The number of people listed in the census matches perfectly with sex and age. The household contains second generation colonial with only one plausible exception. The column lists 2. The household acquired an exact match on sex and age from an unknown source doesn't work. They all lived long enough to provide records of who they were. So, we're left wondering. Thanks! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rpleimancpa@aol.com> To: <OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] 1820 Census Question > Mark, > > Sorry to jump in mid-stream in your conversation. I've been reading the > Shelby County census records for a couple of years and have learned a few thing > that might relate to your question about not being able to reconcile the number > of family members that you "know" about with the number of household members > in the pre-1850 censuses. > > One thing I've learned is that, at least in the case with some of my > ancestors, multiple family groups (i.e. father and sons, brothers, or even cousins) > arrived in the US, bought 1 farm, and it appears that only the father or eldest > brother is listed as the head of household. Additionally, they may have > brought more children from the old country, than you know about ... and these > children died before there are any records. > > There were also a number of epidemics. Surviving families often took in > other people, particularly orphaned children. This too will inflate the number of > members of a household to more than what you expect for your particular > family. This was particularly true in the 1850 census which was taken soon after > the 1849 cholera epidemic. > > Does this help? > > Becky > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

MARK: It may not help you, but I found that if one finds guardianship records, sense sometimes can be made of the people in a household. Young children of a different name mostly could only be there if the head (or wife later) was appointed by the court, and I think perhaps always some kinship is required. In other cases relatives & non-relatives were included as farm laborer or maid to help the family. Sometimes just a neighbor youth. Old widows of either the wife's line or his are sometimes found and are a good clue to consorts. In one case I had 8 extra people in 1850 in a household - well old Silas Manning had a quarry. Salem Twp., especially Port Jefferson in 1850 ++ was a center for barging so many were involved in river traffic and unloading, etc. The epidemics 1850 & earlier changed family numbers. What surprised me and was verified by professional researcher is that young men and women late teen & early 20's often died "of natural causes", accidents & diseases at a rate higher than say aunt Ida or uncle Billy ages in the 30's and 40's. Morris LeFever

Mark - Shelby Co, OH Memorial book, page 558 Walkup Cemetery (also known as Roop Cemetery) This German Reformed burial plot 2-12 miles from Fort Loramie. Bodkin: Lucy, dau of G. & M.J., D: 28 July 1856 William, D: 15 March 1853 in his 60th year George, D: 14 July 1854, in his 23rd year Phebe, wife of Wm, D: 5 March 1856, in her 60th year Same book - page 571 Infirmary (County Home) Bodkins, James, B: ?, resident of Sidney; D: 24 April 1931, age 72, buried Infirmary Cemetery. There are 19 people listed under the Botkin - Botkins surname. If no one else send the info let me know and I'll get to it later. Right now I don't have the time but will be willing to do so later. Doris

Any Taylor connections to this one Descendants of Thomas Henry Taylor 1 Thomas Henry Taylor .. +Elizabeth Campbell ...... 2 William Perry Taylor b: May 29, 1861 in Shelby County, Ohio .......... +Arretta Mae Davis b: August 15, 1865 in Port Jefferson, Salem Twp., Shelby County, Ohio Take care Marilyn

Please limit your requests to 3 per day, and please include the posting date. I have posted so many names that I do need the posting date to find them easily. There may be duplicate obits posted now and then, I apologize, I do try and catch them. Thanks Linda CLARK, James R 1922- 2003 CLEMENTS, (Howell), Jeanette F 1934- 1993 SCHMIT, (Weber), Patricia M 1925- 1995 CLINE, Charles D 1918- 2001 SCHLOSSER, Gene F 1917- 1982 SCHMELZER, Henry 1910- 1980 SCHMELZER, (Etgen), Theresa M 1892- 1980 SCHMELZER, (Frost), Betty J 1922- 1984 SAUNDERS, (Fosbaugh), Terry L 1949- 1996 SCHMIDT, (Dye), Katherine D 1903- 1976 RUSH, Rebecca S 1966- 1998 RUMPLE, Cloyd W 1901- 1974 RUMER, (Poole), Dorothy J 1925- 1998 RUSHAR, Herbert E 1900- 1974 RUMPLE, LaDoyt W 1918- 1985 RUMMELL, (Vroman), Huldah M 1905- 1995 ANGLES, (Allen), Inez M 1898- 1999 ANDERSON, Billy J 1942- 2001 AURAND, (Wuethrich), Georgia E 1913- 1999 ALLION, Sharyn K 1940- 1992 HURLEY, Frank O 1953- 1998 HARTMAN, Elizabeth L 1914- 2000 HOLDGREVE, (Binder), Mary 1915- 1992 HENNON, Russell D 1914- 1984 HARRINGTON, (Douglas), Mary L 1918- 2001 BELLOWS, (Lapp), Bernice I 1916- 1998 BROWN, Richard H 1928- 2001 BICE, Raymond E 1920- 2001

Denise, The names Doty and Taylor...does the following ring any bells? We are searching for Reason Howell who was married to Mary Helmick in Shelby County August 9, 1846. But his next wife, Charlotte Decker Glaspey had children (previous marriage to David Glaspey) who married some Dotys. Short of Reason's marriage and being in the LaPorte County, IN census in 1860 after which time he married Charlotte and supposedly heads west, we can't find out anything else about him. When I saw that you had the Doty and Taylor name, I asked a cousin who knows a lot more about this and this is what she wrote me: "Reason's second wife was Charlotte DECKER GLASPEY, who m1 David Glaspey. Some of their children married Dotys. There were also Dotys in Newton Co., Ind. There is absolutely no doubt Reason knew some of the Dotys. The Taylor family married into the Richard Howell family of Shelby (Richard b ~1845-7) who married Melissa Elliott. There are also Van Dines in that family. (My Warren county Ind Rowen family married both Taylors and one of Mom's cousins (a Taylor!) married a Van Dine. Ironfox (Stephen Barrett) is descended from Emma Elsie Rowen, who married Harvey Taylor. One of Emma Elsie's daughters married a Van Dine." Does any of this sound familiar to you? Thanks, Jan

Sue, I did a quick look in the Miami Valley Genealogical Index and found the following Apgar's. Name Key Year Source Book Page Relevant County Apgar, Aaron fc 1840 Cen 308 Symmes Township Ha Apgar, Aaron fc 1840 Cen 114 Washington Twp Pr Apgar, Cora M 1879 Marr Yates, John W. Sh Apgar, David fc 1840 Cen 309 Symmes Township Ha Apgar, J. fc 1840 Cen 309 Symmes Township Ha Apgar, Jacob fc 1880 Cen 217D Salem Twp. Sh Apgar, Jacob M 1862 Marr Evans, Rosillia Sh Apgar, John H. M 1869 Marr Kibbens, Marinda J. Sh Apgar, Lula L. fc 1880 Cen 257C Washington Twp. Sh Apgar, M. fc 1840 Cen 309 Symmes Township Ha Apgar, Mary M. M 1892 Marr Spraul, William A. Sh Apgar, Peter M 1832 Marr Jones, Elizabeth Mt Apgar, Peter Xt 1842 Deed 19 610 Piqua Lot 68 Mi Apgar, Peter et al Xr 1841 Deed 19 472 "Title Bond" Mi Apgar, Peter et al Xr 1841 Deed 19 609 Piqua Lot 68 Mi Apgar, William M 1858 Marr Evans, Elizabeth Sh Pr Preble Ha Hamilton Sh Shelby Mi Miami Mt Montgomery You may already have this info, but just in case... Success in your research, Jean Burkart Cold Spring, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ksk" <kskramer@wcoil.com> To: <OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] Cemetery Help !! > Mary > Thanks for checking, the William O Apgar you found > is a son of the William Apgar who died 1886, he was > born 1831. According to the Apgar Family History, both > William & Elizabeth are buried in Shelby Co, but the > book does not say where, nor does it have a date for > Elizabeth. Since I know some of the family is buried > at Port Jefferson, I am just guessing that the William > who died in 1886 is there. Could be another cemetery. > > I have an obit for William who died 1940, he was a > Spanish War Vet. I appreciate your offer to get his > obit. The one I have came from the Lima News, but > supposed the one locally could tell more. He had > a wife living at the time, but looks like she in not > buried with him. > If you want to email me, we can discuss it. > Thanks much > Sue > kskramer@wcoil.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary/Jim Renner > To: OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] Cemetery Help !! > > > There is a William Apgar buried at Glen Cemetery but I'm not > sure it is the one you want. He was born at Huntsville, Ohio 2/6/1859, > late residence was Pt. Jefferson, Ohio, and he died 2/13/1940 at age > 81. I can check for an obituary for this William for you in the Sidney > Daily > News if you wish. > > Other Apgars buried in Glen Cemetery are Anna T., Clarence L., > Ida, John F. and Rosalie. > > Mary > > > > Could anyone help me find if the following is buried > > in the Glen Cemetery in Shelby Co Ohio. > > William Apgar d. 1886 and his wife Elizabeth > > death date unknown. > > Are there any published death records, besides > > at the courthouse for this time period. > > If anyone can help me, you can contact me offline. > > Thanks > > Sue > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

Mary Thanks for checking, the William O Apgar you found is a son of the William Apgar who died 1886, he was born 1831. According to the Apgar Family History, both William & Elizabeth are buried in Shelby Co, but the book does not say where, nor does it have a date for Elizabeth. Since I know some of the family is buried at Port Jefferson, I am just guessing that the William who died in 1886 is there. Could be another cemetery. I have an obit for William who died 1940, he was a Spanish War Vet. I appreciate your offer to get his obit. The one I have came from the Lima News, but supposed the one locally could tell more. He had a wife living at the time, but looks like she in not buried with him. If you want to email me, we can discuss it. Thanks much Sue kskramer@wcoil.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary/Jim Renner To: OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] Cemetery Help !! There is a William Apgar buried at Glen Cemetery but I'm not sure it is the one you want. He was born at Huntsville, Ohio 2/6/1859, late residence was Pt. Jefferson, Ohio, and he died 2/13/1940 at age 81. I can check for an obituary for this William for you in the Sidney Daily News if you wish. Other Apgars buried in Glen Cemetery are Anna T., Clarence L., Ida, John F. and Rosalie. Mary > Could anyone help me find if the following is buried > in the Glen Cemetery in Shelby Co Ohio. > William Apgar d. 1886 and his wife Elizabeth > death date unknown. > Are there any published death records, besides > at the courthouse for this time period. > If anyone can help me, you can contact me offline. > Thanks > Sue ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Thanks Doris, I agree it makes sense especially in 1820 when there would have been so many people with ties to other countries outside the colonies. The problem we're having is that the number listed is more than there should be for the two families we're working on. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doris J Swingruber" <djsjd@juno.com> To: <OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [OHSHELBY] 1820 Census Question > "foreigners not naturalized". > That makes sense to me...someone from another country living in the USA > but not a citizen of the USA. > I know..I did this for about 5 years...then became a US citizen. > I think the column is used for exactly what it says. > djs > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:34:33 -0600 "Mark Allen" <mallen@cpusearch.com> > writes: > > Surname: BODKIN/BOTKIN > > > > The 1820 census has six age categories for males, > > then six age categories for females, then a column > > for "foreigners not naturalized" then columns for > > persons engaged in agriculture, commerce and > > manufacture. > > > > I have a conflict with what I know verses the number > > listed "foreigners not naturalized". Does anyone know > > if this column was possibly used for another purpose? > > Taxable livestock, out buildings, etc? > > > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > > > ============================== > > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and > > the > > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 > > months. > > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

Please send me a copy of the obit for KINSTLE, Maxine M 1918- 2000. Thank you !!!!! Virginia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack & Linda Dietz" <jdietz2@woh.rr.com> To: <OHSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [OHSHELBY] Surnames for obit scans Feb 19 > Please limit your requests to 3 per day, and please include the posting > date. I have > posted so many names that I do need the posting date to find them easily. > There may be duplicate obits posted now and then, I apologize, I do try > and > catch them. > Thanks > > Linda > > > ROBERTS, (Jervis), Ruth E 1920- 2003 > KOEPER, (Rupert), Mary M 1917- 1994 > RUPPERT, Raymond E 1916- 1998 > RIDER, David (Sr), 1917- 1996 > BERRON, Henry G 1886- 1981 > HUFFER, H. Dale (Dr), 1939- 1996 > HUFFER, Ruby G 1908- 2003 > HUBER, Stella V 1905- 1998 > BLEEKE, Emilie 1882- 1971 > KING, (Wade), Verlena L 1911- 2001 > KIMMET, John R 1941- 2000 > BAIR, James A 1972- 1972 > KINKLE, Lester 1924- 2001 > KINSTLE, Maxine M 1918- 2000 > MONFORT, Donald W 1923- 1996 > MOSES, Richard W 1933- 2003 > MANN, Louis E 1913- 1985 > MAURER, (Skinner), Winifred E 1914- 2003 > BEVER, (Hinton), Mavis L 1907- 1982 > CHRISTOFONO, Dominic 1883- 1984 > COCHRAN, Retta E 1894- 1980 > COOLEY, (Knerr), Betty 1933- 1991 > COOPER, Lee B 1941- 1994 > COOK, (Foster), Lottie C 1891- 1956 > SCHAAFF, (Schnegg), Evelyn J 1913- 1995 > MOHLER, (Carey), Lorna A.E. 1918- 2000 > METCALF, Irvin 1924- 1999 > MONEY, Hillery W 1961- 1999 > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > The Shelby County Genealogical Society offers memberships and publications > at: > c/o Phil Abbott > 17411 Mason Road > Sidney, Ohio 46365 > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

"foreigners not naturalized". That makes sense to me...someone from another country living in the USA but not a citizen of the USA. I know..I did this for about 5 years...then became a US citizen. I think the column is used for exactly what it says. djs On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:34:33 -0600 "Mark Allen" <mallen@cpusearch.com> writes: > Surname: BODKIN/BOTKIN > > The 1820 census has six age categories for males, > then six age categories for females, then a column > for "foreigners not naturalized" then columns for > persons engaged in agriculture, commerce and > manufacture. > > I have a conflict with what I know verses the number > listed "foreigners not naturalized". Does anyone know > if this column was possibly used for another purpose? > Taxable livestock, out buildings, etc? > > > ==== OHSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Check out Shelby County, OHGenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohshelby/mnpg.html > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and > the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 > months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > >

Could anyone help me find if the following is buried in the Glen Cemetery in Shelby Co Ohio. William Apgar d. 1886 and his wife Elizabeth death date unknown. Are there any published death records, besides at the courthouse for this time period. If anyone can help me, you can contact me offline. Thanks Sue kskramer@wcoil.com

There is a William Apgar buried at Glen Cemetery but I'm not sure it is the one you want. He was born at Huntsville, Ohio 2/6/1859, late residence was Pt. Jefferson, Ohio, and he died 2/13/1940 at age 81. I can check for an obituary for this William for you in the Sidney Daily News if you wish. Other Apgars buried in Glen Cemetery are Anna T., Clarence L., Ida, John F. and Rosalie. Mary > Could anyone help me find if the following is buried > in the Glen Cemetery in Shelby Co Ohio. > William Apgar d. 1886 and his wife Elizabeth > death date unknown. > Are there any published death records, besides > at the courthouse for this time period. > If anyone can help me, you can contact me offline. > Thanks > Sue

Please limit your requests to 3 per day, and please include the posting date. I have posted so many names that I do need the posting date to find them easily. There may be duplicate obits posted now and then, I apologize, I do try and catch them. Thanks Linda SARBER, Donald F 1909- 1976 SARBER, (Kohl), Genevieve C 1915- 1998 SAPP, Paul E 1915- 1997 SAUM, Garfield 1880- 1973 SAPP, (Snyder), Jessie 1919- 1998 SCHMIDT, Zomer C 1901- 1996 RUNYON, (Dixon), Rhea 1900- 1994 SCHOONOVER, (Brandon), Ardis 1919- 1996 ROBERTSON, (Simpson), Clemie L 1919- 2002 RUSHER, (Smith), Ola G 1895- 1981 RUMPLE, W. Burel 1885- 1975 RUPERT, D. Frances 1917- 1998 ARLIN, (Mahns), Darlene C 1922- 1985 AUER, Laura 1885- 1974 ARMBRUSTER, Jonathan G 1999- 2001 ARDNER, Arnold G 1925- 1973 ADAMS, Donald L 1926- 2000 HEYSER, Robert W 1923- 2003 HURLBURT, George W 1923- 2000 HOLTZAPPLE, Roy C 1899- 1976 HOLMAN, Gerald 1901- 1976 HUNT, David M (jr) 1923- 1999 MONEY, (Newland), Diana L 1948- 2000 MOORMAN, Gene R 1943- 1997 MOTE, (Reed), June B 1919- 1997 MORRIS, (Ringwald), Delta 1898- 1981 BARAN, Edward C 1917- 1982 BUTTURINI, (Taylor), Charlsie M 1917- 1998 BIBLE, Ralph H 1924- 2000 BEIREIS, Alfred (Rev), 1920- 1978 BUERSCHEN, Joseph M 1908- 1975 COMMERSON, Floyd 1899- 1978 (death notice)

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Lemon, Lemmon, Ragon, Young Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CYB.2ACE/532.2.1 Message Board Post: Gary Kellem--email information on Thomas Ragon family to jwurmser@comcast.net. I have found more information since I posted the message to which you responded and I will share what I have with you as well. "Huston" Lemon as listed in the census was probably Hector Lemon married to Ann Smith. Both were born in PA.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/CYB.2ACE/532.2 Message Board Post: have some info on the ragon, e=mail me & i will share what i have, gary