Hi Craig. Boy have you muddied the waters!! I was afraid of that, but I certainly appreciate your lookup at the library. I hate those records that don't give names-since I didn't have the names of my Cline children! I will have to do some studying of the ages of the children now to see if I can match them to what I found in the 1850 Seneca census , but under Kline. I was so sure that was the right family in 1850, and my original spelling was Cline, but I wasn't too concerned about the discrepancy in spelling. Now I need to check the 1860 as the wife of the 1850 family died in 1857 so should not be in the 1860. I'll order that one as I'm looking for other names too in 1860. But you've given me something to work with for sure. I appreciate your extra effort. Thanks so much. Dorothy

Hi Dorothy, I was at the Clayton Library tonight, so I looked up the Census for Seneca Co for 1840. Guess what! There are two George Clines in the county that year! One is in Adams Township and the other in Jackson Twp. Both townships are in the Northern part of the county. McCutchenville in now in Wyandot county, bordering on the Southern edge of Seneca. Wyandot county was not formed until 1845, so McCuthenville was in one of the other counties in 1840. Anyways, here is the information: George Cline in Adams Township, page 133 on roll 426, 1840 Census. Males: 10-15 = 1, 15-20 = 2, 40-50 = 1 Females: under 5 = 1, 5-10 = 2, 20-30 = 1, 20-40 = 1 George Cline in Jackson Township, page 240 on roll 426, 1840 Census. Males: 5-10 = 1, 10-15 = 2, 15-20 = 1, 40-50 = 1 Females: under 5 = 1, 5-10 = 1, 10-15 = 1, 30-40 = 1 Hope this is good enough news. Later, Craig

I have done ALOT of research on the Cline's in Monroe Co. These Clines go back to a revolutionary war patriarch. George Cline Sr. came to Monroe Co. with his sons and they spread throughout Monroe and surronding counties. I have notes on several branchs moving to locations outside of southeastern Ohio, including Muskingum Co. I will go through this info tonight and see if I can come up with anything to help you. Debbie Jones -----Original Message----- From: Dorothy Hackle [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 1:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: George and Mary Kline This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again Tim. I am afraid I have little to go on with this family. I am a descendant from Mary Martin's line . I have found the marriage of her and George Cline in 1821 in Muskingum Co, OH. Mary was born OH and her family was from either PA or MD Her father was Isaac W. and her grandfather was Isaac Martin (I have been very confused as to records I find about these two men as mostly they are both listed as Isaac and I'm never sure which one they are referring to). In my original notes about Mary's family, it was estimated she was born OH in 1802, but this was never proven, so the 1896 date could be correct. At first I thought this couple went to Monroe Co, OH and I was looking there, where I found TONS of Clines, and never could confirm that Mary and George were actually living in Monroe at any time. Then I found the estate papers in Muskingum Co for Mary's mother Nancy Martin, who died in Seneca Co in 1848. I notation from another Martin researcher indicated that Nancy went to live with her daughter Mary and son-in-law George in Seneca Co after the death of Nancy's husband, Isaac W. , whom we believe died between 1839 (when he sold property in Muskingum Co) and 1848, when Nancy's estate was contested in Muskingum Co and the document stated that Isaac W. was "long since deceased". So I went back to the 1850 census and found George and Mary and the three sons living in Seneca Twp, Seneca Co. The ages were right to conclude that this was the right George and Mary. The surname was spelled Kline in this census. Further search in Seneca Co produced the deth records (Kline) of George and Mary in Methodist Cem in 1857 and 1861. I am just now going into the 1860 and 1840 census to see if George is there with any of the children, and if 1840 shows the Kline family as per the "History of Seneca Co " entry that says they came in 1836. Since they married in 1821 and the age of the oldest boy in the 1850 puts his birth year about 1833, I suspect that there are other children that were on their own. Further, having sons named George and Jacob (after the father and grandfather) and reference to an Isaac W. Kline in the History account in Seneca Co ( Isaac W. was Mary's father's name) lends credence that this is the correct family for my line. I am enclosing a short report on this family and as you see I don't know very much . And you, no doubt have more information on your Jacob and his father Jacob, who may also be the father of George. I have entensive material on Mary Martin's family and siblings, but I will hold off on that for now until we can actually confirm that there is a connection here. I would be most interested in any information you may have as to other children of George and Mary and any confirmation as to why you believe George and your Jacob to be brothers. It may give me the clue I need to find the location of Mary's parents and grandparents and where they lived before coming to OH. That is where I am stumped at present. Anxious to hear from you. Dar Hackle at [email protected] ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140 Content-Type: text/plain; name="George & Mary Kline.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="George & Mary Kline.txt" =0DDescendants of Mary Ann Martin=0D=0D=0DGeneration No. 1=0D=0D1. MARY = ANN1 MARTIN (ISAAC W.A, ISAACB) was born Abt. 01 Mar 1806 in Likely = Muskingum Co-then Wash. Co, OH (Source: (1) 1850 Seneca Census, States = age as 53 b. OH., (2) Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem McCutchenville, = Seneca Co, OH, Age at death given as 51 y 1 m 23d-birth estimated by = counting backwards.Note that original estimate of birth year was 1802 = when research was started.), and died 24 Apr 1857 in Seneca Co, OH = (Source: Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem, McCutchenville,Seneca Co, OH, SW = Row 2 p. 59Age at death 51 y 1 m 23d.). She married GEORGE CLINE 23 Jan = 1821 in Muskingum Co. OH (Source: (1) LDS Seneca OH Marriages #0865142, = p. 123., (2) Muskingum Co OH marriage book II, p. 105 in index, by Jacob = Crooks.). He was born Abt. 27 Dec 1795 in MD (Source: (1) 1850 Seneca = Census, Dw and Fam 81 p. 332 Seneca Twp, Stated b. MD age 55., (2) = Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH, Age at = death given as 65 y 10m 4d-birth estimate by counting backwards.), and = died 01 Nov 1861 in Seneca Co, OH (Source: Cemetery Index, Methodist = Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH, SW Row 2 p. 59 Age at death 65 y 10 = m 4 d.).=0D=0DNotes for MARY ANN MARTIN:=0DKnown as Polly. A note from = Pat Butler (desc of George Martin, b. 1806) says that Isaac W.'s wife = Nancy went to live with Mary Martin Cline in Seneca County in the = 1840's, so look for them in 1840 and 1850 census. Nancy died in 1848. = There is a couple, George and Mary buried in Methodist Cem = McCutchenville, Seneca Co-give dates as George 1 Nov 1861 65 y 10 m 4 = d, and Mary Ann, w/o George, 24 April 1857 51y 1 m 23 d -listed in row = 2, page 59 of listings. Check further on these two. Deaths not in = database at this time. =0D=0DMore About MARY ANN MARTIN:=0DBurial: = Methodist Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH=0D=0DNotes for GEORGE = CLINE:=0D. There is a George and Mary Kline in Seneca Co 1850 with some = children, which could be ours. Our George thought to be in Seneca at = least in 1848. In History of Seneca Co, OH there is a notation that = George and Mary Cline were natives of Maryland, but came to OH from = Lancaster Co, PA about 1836. Need to follow up on this as Mary was born = OH and raised in Muskingum Co where she married George in 1821. Her = family is thought to be from PA. =0D=0DMore About GEORGE = CLINE:=0DBurial: Methodist Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, = OH=0D=0DMarriage Notes for MARY MARTIN and GEORGE CLINE:=0DThere is a = marriage listed for George Cline and Mary Amanda Chamblin on 22 June = 1837 in Muskingum County. Bk 3 shown on LDS index 0317459. Could this be = a marriage of George's brother ? This family was likely in Seneca Co, = OH. Name spelled KLINE in census records. There may have been other = children in this family. Try to confirm. =0D =0DChildren of MARY MARTIN = and GEORGE CLINE are:=0D i. GEORGE2 CLINE, b. Abt. 1833.=0D ii. JACOB = CLINE, b. Abt. 1835.=0D iii. DAVID CLINE, b. Abt. 1838.=0D ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140--

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again Tim. I am afraid I have little to go on with this family. I am a descendant from Mary Martin's line . I have found the marriage of her and George Cline in 1821 in Muskingum Co, OH. Mary was born OH and her family was from either PA or MD Her father was Isaac W. and her grandfather was Isaac Martin (I have been very confused as to records I find about these two men as mostly they are both listed as Isaac and I'm never sure which one they are referring to). In my original notes about Mary's family, it was estimated she was born OH in 1802, but this was never proven, so the 1896 date could be correct. At first I thought this couple went to Monroe Co, OH and I was looking there, where I found TONS of Clines, and never could confirm that Mary and George were actually living in Monroe at any time. Then I found the estate papers in Muskingum Co for Mary's mother Nancy Martin, who died in Seneca Co in 1848. I notation from another Martin researcher indicated that Nancy went to live with her daughter Mary and son-in-law George in Seneca Co after the death of Nancy's husband, Isaac W. , whom we believe died between 1839 (when he sold property in Muskingum Co) and 1848, when Nancy's estate was contested in Muskingum Co and the document stated that Isaac W. was "long since deceased". So I went back to the 1850 census and found George and Mary and the three sons living in Seneca Twp, Seneca Co. The ages were right to conclude that this was the right George and Mary. The surname was spelled Kline in this census. Further search in Seneca Co produced the deth records (Kline) of George and Mary in Methodist Cem in 1857 and 1861. I am just now going into the 1860 and 1840 census to see if George is there with any of the children, and if 1840 shows the Kline family as per the "History of Seneca Co " entry that says they came in 1836. Since they married in 1821 and the age of the oldest boy in the 1850 puts his birth year about 1833, I suspect that there are other children that were on their own. Further, having sons named George and Jacob (after the father and grandfather) and reference to an Isaac W. Kline in the History account in Seneca Co ( Isaac W. was Mary's father's name) lends credence that this is the correct family for my line. I am enclosing a short report on this family and as you see I don't know very much . And you, no doubt have more information on your Jacob and his father Jacob, who may also be the father of George. I have entensive material on Mary Martin's family and siblings, but I will hold off on that for now until we can actually confirm that there is a connection here. I would be most interested in any information you may have as to other children of George and Mary and any confirmation as to why you believe George and your Jacob to be brothers. It may give me the clue I need to find the location of Mary's parents and grandparents and where they lived before coming to OH. That is where I am stumped at present. Anxious to hear from you. Dar Hackle at [email protected] ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140 Content-Type: text/plain; name="George & Mary Kline.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="George & Mary Kline.txt" =0DDescendants of Mary Ann Martin=0D=0D=0DGeneration No. 1=0D=0D1. MARY = ANN1 MARTIN (ISAAC W.A, ISAACB) was born Abt. 01 Mar 1806 in Likely = Muskingum Co-then Wash. Co, OH (Source: (1) 1850 Seneca Census, States = age as 53 b. OH., (2) Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem McCutchenville, = Seneca Co, OH, Age at death given as 51 y 1 m 23d-birth estimated by = counting backwards.Note that original estimate of birth year was 1802 = when research was started.), and died 24 Apr 1857 in Seneca Co, OH = (Source: Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem, McCutchenville,Seneca Co, OH, SW = Row 2 p. 59Age at death 51 y 1 m 23d.). She married GEORGE CLINE 23 Jan = 1821 in Muskingum Co. OH (Source: (1) LDS Seneca OH Marriages #0865142, = p. 123., (2) Muskingum Co OH marriage book II, p. 105 in index, by Jacob = Crooks.). He was born Abt. 27 Dec 1795 in MD (Source: (1) 1850 Seneca = Census, Dw and Fam 81 p. 332 Seneca Twp, Stated b. MD age 55., (2) = Cemetery Index, Methodist Cem McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH, Age at = death given as 65 y 10m 4d-birth estimate by counting backwards.), and = died 01 Nov 1861 in Seneca Co, OH (Source: Cemetery Index, Methodist = Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH, SW Row 2 p. 59 Age at death 65 y 10 = m 4 d.).=0D=0DNotes for MARY ANN MARTIN:=0DKnown as Polly. A note from = Pat Butler (desc of George Martin, b. 1806) says that Isaac W.'s wife = Nancy went to live with Mary Martin Cline in Seneca County in the = 1840's, so look for them in 1840 and 1850 census. Nancy died in 1848. = There is a couple, George and Mary buried in Methodist Cem = McCutchenville, Seneca Co-give dates as George 1 Nov 1861 65 y 10 m 4 = d, and Mary Ann, w/o George, 24 April 1857 51y 1 m 23 d -listed in row = 2, page 59 of listings. Check further on these two. Deaths not in = database at this time. =0D=0DMore About MARY ANN MARTIN:=0DBurial: = Methodist Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, OH=0D=0DNotes for GEORGE = CLINE:=0D. There is a George and Mary Kline in Seneca Co 1850 with some = children, which could be ours. Our George thought to be in Seneca at = least in 1848. In History of Seneca Co, OH there is a notation that = George and Mary Cline were natives of Maryland, but came to OH from = Lancaster Co, PA about 1836. Need to follow up on this as Mary was born = OH and raised in Muskingum Co where she married George in 1821. Her = family is thought to be from PA. =0D=0DMore About GEORGE = CLINE:=0DBurial: Methodist Cem, McCutchenville, Seneca Co, = OH=0D=0DMarriage Notes for MARY MARTIN and GEORGE CLINE:=0DThere is a = marriage listed for George Cline and Mary Amanda Chamblin on 22 June = 1837 in Muskingum County. Bk 3 shown on LDS index 0317459. Could this be = a marriage of George's brother ? This family was likely in Seneca Co, = OH. Name spelled KLINE in census records. There may have been other = children in this family. Try to confirm. =0D =0DChildren of MARY MARTIN = and GEORGE CLINE are:=0D i. GEORGE2 CLINE, b. Abt. 1833.=0D ii. JACOB = CLINE, b. Abt. 1835.=0D iii. DAVID CLINE, b. Abt. 1838.=0D ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C027BB.695F6140--

Hi Tim-I am just getting started on Geroge and know virtually nothing. A George Cline/Kline married the sister (Mary) of my great great grandfather Andrew Martin in Muskingum Co, OH. Let me get together what little I have on them and get back with you. I have nothing on George at all so you may have more for me than I have for you. I'll get what I know together in the next day (I have been sitting here all afternoon and was about to close up shop for the day when your message came in). Appreciate you responding. Dar at [email protected]

Hi Dorothy, I have Kline ancestry in Seneca Twp., Seneca County. My line comes down from Johann Jacob Kline, b. 1809, d. 1880. I believe that he and George (Johann George, b. 1795, d. 1861) were brothers. Their father might have been Jacob Kline, but I haven't found much on him yet. Let's share info. Tim Timothy J. Abel 33512 NYS Rte. 26 Carthage, NY 13619 [email protected]

DC and Alice Allen wrote: > > Forwarded by request. > > Alice > USGenWeb CC for Seneca Co. OH > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohseneca/seneca.html > Listmom for OHSENECA-L > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:01 AM > Subject: Genealogy Look Up Forum Alice, I have CD# 450 which is History of several counties in Ohio. "The History of Seneca Co." by Warren & Beers is on it. I will do lookups from that CD. Cathy Lauer [email protected]

Forwarded by request. Alice USGenWeb CC for Seneca Co. OH http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohseneca/seneca.html Listmom for OHSENECA-L ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:01 AM Subject: Genealogy Look Up Forum > > Hello!! > > I was wanting to know if you would post a message on your mailing lists > about > a new website called "Genealogy Look Up Forum". It is a website of > volunteers > who will do various types of look ups in many states in the USA. I am the > website owner and trying to get the word out about this helpful website. > > The URL is: http://www.expage.com/page/genealogylookup > > Mike >

Hi. Could someone who has access to the 1840 Seneca County census please look for the name George Kline/Cline and let me know the sex and age ranges of the family members and the township and page number. He may have lived in the McCutchenville area, whatever township that is. Thanks so much. Contact me privately at [email protected]

I'm searching for anyone connected to Jerome Jackson, who appears on 1880 census in Pleasant Twp, Seneca Co, OH age 23 with wife Nancy, age 18. I have located in census index another Jerome Jackson on 1850 census in Willoughby, Lake Co, OH who could be somehow connected to the younger Jerome of the 1880 census. My primary search is for Ann Matilda SELLERS who m. a JACKSON, however, family info and searching has not yielded a first name for her husband. I believe that Nancy could possibly be a nickname used for Ann. This Jerome and Nancy are surrounded in Pleasant Twp. by many close relatives of Ann Sellers. Any assistance on identifying this Jerome would be greatly appreciated. Marilyn in MI Researching Seneca families: Sellers, Shearer, Lower, Shindler, Hefling

I believe it was someone on this list a week or so ago looking for Nettie LEWIS. I found her on this TURNER family web site in the family photos of their Lewises.. I hope the person looking for her will read this posting. I'm still looking for Perry N. LEWIS of Cook Cnty, IL about 1900, and maybe from Seneca Co. Tiffin, OH. Patricia SCHUBERT ZIPPIN http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/t/u/r/Barbara--S-Turner/index.html Family Photos The Lewises (20 KB) Back:Mary Margaret Lewis, Roy Stewart Lewis, Amanda Thompson Miracle, Thomas Jefferson Miracle,William Jeff Thompson, Wesley Thompson Front: Martha Elizabeth Lewis holding Donna McAnally, Nettie Alice Lewis, David Roy Stewart Lewis and front is Frank Johnston Lewis

anyone got anything on this guy and his many wives...=) > > Edward Swander b.2 may 1814 d. 24 mar 1899 > MARRIED > Mary Treeexler b. 12 april 1819 d. 26 sept 1843 > Hannah Lang b. 10 oct 1820 d. 4 dec 1865 > Harriet Morse b. 13 dec 1832 d. 1 mar 1911 > > >

Many thanks to Cathy and Jim for looking into CD450 for Friedrich L. SCHUBERT for me. I am not familiar with the system and wonder what (Disk 3.) and (Disk 5) refers to. The Disk#5 "land addition to the City of Tiffin 1874" is a possibility . I'll look for land records for Seneca County, maybe there's some online. Anybody know a URL for land records? Thanks, Patricia Schubert Zippin

Looking for info on W.H.Flack born in ohio abt.1849 died in ohio ? married Susan Hatton Born 1850 in Ky. - ------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.

10-9-1850 Census Sandusky Co., Pleasant Twp page 614 307B 12 Heldebrake Jacob 61 pg0302b.txt 307B 39 Heldibrake *lse* M 2 pg0302b.txt 307B 37 Heldibrake Aleinda 6 pg0302b.txt 307B 35 Heldibrake Josiah 39 pg0302b.txt 307B 36 Heldibrake Mary A 30 pg0302b.txt 308A 1 Heldibrake Rachael 75 pg0302b.txt 307B 38 Heldibrake Theudin P 4 pg0302 1860 Ohio Census, Seneca County - Pleasant Twp. Josiah 50 years old, Mary 39. Value of real estate $8000, Value of personal estate $1000. Josiah was a farmer. John [Maule] arrived in Seneca Co. in June 1830 with his father-in-law Thomas and his wife's sister Margaret and Joseph Heltebrake [may be Josiah]. HISTORY OF SENECA COUNTY . . . Joseph Heltebrake settled in Seneca County in June, 1830 . . . Also, a living member of the "Farmers" Institute" in 1885 Any information on this family or name - HELDEBRAKE - HELDIBRAKE - HELDERBRAKE - HELTEBRAKE - HELTABRAKE [NOT Heltebridle or Heltebrand] Thanks, Carol Heltebrake Gammel

>Schubert, Frederick 1780-1970 OH CD450 >County and Family Histories: Ohio, 1780-1970 (#450) I'm searching my ggrandfather Frederich L.(Louis?) SCHUBERT from Saxony in 1866. Does anyone have the CD450 that could see if he is my relative? Many thanks, Patricia SCHUBERT Zippin

Calvin Zippin wrote: > > >Schubert, Frederick 1780-1970 OH CD450 > >County and Family Histories: Ohio, 1780-1970 (#450) > > I'm searching my ggrandfather Frederich L.(Louis?) SCHUBERT from > Saxony in 1866. Does anyone have the CD450 that could see if he is > my relative? > > Many thanks, > Patricia SCHUBERT Zippin Military History of Hamilton Co. OHIO: Civil War list of Privates..Frederick Schubert Hope this helps, Cathy [email protected]

Check my copy of CD #450 and found the following: 1. Fredrick Schubert, Hamilton Co., Oh., Civil War Veteran (Disk # 3) 2. Lewis Schubert, Seneca Co., Oh. Clinton Twsp., land addition to City of Tiffin, 1874. Disk # 5 3. Lewis C. Schubert, Seneca Co., son of Charles Schubert. (Disk #5) Jim Heilman In a message dated 9/19/2000 1:29:32 PM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << >Schubert, Frederick 1780-1970 OH CD450 >County and Family Histories: Ohio, 1780-1970 (#450) I'm searching my ggrandfather Frederich L.(Louis?) SCHUBERT from Saxony in 1866. Does anyone have the CD450 that could see if he is my relative? Many thanks, Patricia SCHUBERT Zippin >>

If anyone knows this gentleman, please let him know about this message. Alice USGenWeb CC for Geauga Co. OH http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohgeauga/geauga.html Seneca Co. OH http://www.rootsweb.com/~ohseneca/seneca.html Listmom for OHGEAUGA-L & OHSENECA-L ----- Original Message ----- From: Norman Bryant <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:33 PM Subject: DEATH IN FAMILY > I am not a subscriber, but am trying to locate KENNETH DOAN who we > believe lives somewhere in Ohio. He is the son of Charles L. DOAN > (1917-1988) and the late Lulu (maiden name ukn) DOAN of 113 S. Lynn, > Osgood, IN and the brother of James DOAN of Indianapolis, IN. It is > imperative he contact me immediately for information regarding his > brother. > > Thank you, Pat Bryant (317) 897-2847 >

Chances are, if a woman was divorced, rather than widowed, her maiden name will appear on the records. I had a case like that. Ruth Taylor married a Spaulding, divorced, and then married a Hartzell in Seneca County as "Taylor". Steve Hartzell ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <SteveHartzell> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: SWANDER, BROOKS, WENNER > > In a message dated 9/17/00 9:01:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > << Subj: Swander Brooks Wenner > Date: 9/17/00 9:01:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time > From: [email protected] (Robin Dunbar) > Reply-to: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > Need help please. > I have a Sarah J Brooks marrying Francis Wenner on 14 oct 1866,in > Seneca co,Ohio. > But In the "History of the Swander Family" By John swander she is > listed as a Brooks. Her mother being Mary E Swander. > > Anyone Have any info on this??? >> > > Hi Robin, > > Our Marriages of Seneca County, Ohio, 1841-1899, by Jean Seigley, shows the > following: > > Sarah J. SWANDER, over age 18, m. Francis WENNER, over age 21, Oct. 14, 1866 > by J.H. Good, officiating. Citation: 6-245. > > Regards, > > Ken Shute, in MD ([email protected]). > >