Pam, I've have considered this as a possibility. And, I have also considered that one of the females had Frank and the father, a Church (perhaps James Church who died in Civil War as son of Augustus and Marg Ann Neeley Church of Fairfield Co OH) (or perhaps Thomas Church OH MASS MD as son of David and Mary Church of Perry Co OH per 1860. Thomas md later an Hester J b 1856 and went onto Wisconsin). And in speaking of stepfathers, Frank E Church Black's death certificate that lists just the first name for his father and no mother could indicate that the father listed was a stepfather by name of James. And could it then be James Firestone or James Davis? Also Rachel who married 1877 James Firestone appears that he had children before. In 1870 at Hardin Co OH, it says J F Firestone 38 and Rachel 36, Thomas 14 b 1856, J W 11, *Franklin 11, M 9, Emma 5, and Elmore 1/2. In 1880 it says James Firestone 45 b 1835, Rachel b 1837, Jonathan Davis 26, Flora 21, Edith 13, and Sherman 2. A bit confusing. It appears that Matilda Black who md 1867 James M Davis had several girls. Isaac Davis 34 per 1880 md to a Jane 23 had child Clinton E Davis b 1878 and Susan E age 1. Also, James Davis was brother to William and Jonathan. Robert F Black appears to have married twice; in 1867 he's married to Sarah Claphan who died in 1899 by whom he had Carrie that we know off born 1868 and per the 1910 census he is married to a Martha V. And he is a sawyer, not lawyer as I have seen in other posts. And there is the possibility that my Frank is the son of William R Black. My Frank Church Black who married Margaret A Current had one child, Clinton E Black 1886 OH - 1973 Calif who had 3 children: Robert C Black 1913 OR - 1986 CA; James W Black 1915 OR - 1932 CA; and Ellen M (who married twice) 1917 OR - 2004 VA. Now, I would think that perhaps Frank's grandchildren may be named after some of his family. Some Fairfield Co OH marriages for BLACK are: Caleb md 1819 Sally Parks Eliz md 1822 Abe Beery George md 1816 Polly Hanes James md 1825 Hanna Butler James md 1804 Jane Gillespie aka Wallace John md 1808 Guinnes (Jinny) Benjamin Lettie md 1825 David Wolf Liddy md 1806 George Lamb Martha md 1820 Wm M?Mcluny Molly md 1822 John See Nancy md 1823 Henry Rader Phillip md 1807 Kitty Be... For 1860 Fairfield Co Rushcreek, I find Robert J Black 38 b Ireland, John W 4 b OH, Sam W 11/12, and Wiliam 42. Same county but at Pleasant Twp, I find Robert Black 40 and Ann 31. Also same county but at Baltimore: Henry Black 43, Rhoda 44, Willie 9, George 4, Joespeph ?Puff 18, and Lucinda Heis 19. There is also (can't recall county) a John H Black who md 1859 a Margaret Jenkins. I sent for data from Hardin Co Hist Society and they sent me marriage certs for the 3 Black gals of Henry and Susanna along with burial, death, and other data. They were very reasonable and most helpful. They even gave me data from Fairfield Co. Frank E Church Black is certainly my mystery that he kept even at his death; it would seem that he did protect his mother by not listing her on his death cert but that he sure was proud of his grampa Black by whom he took his name. And the bio on him really cements things listing Henry as being his maternal grampa and even listing what regiment he was in and the loss of Avery. Frank went onto California in 1891; I have found him in land records for 1892, 1905, and 1908. And your finding of a Rachel age 13 is interesting also; I may have some data on who this Rachel married. Thanks for sharing, as always, Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:01 AM Subject: OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 108 Today's Topics: 1. Re: OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 106 (pam) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 07:43:11 -0400 From: "pam" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OHPERRY] OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 106 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It is highly likely that Elizabeth & possibly William are Henry Black's parents. Because it's not easy to find "proof positive" I tend to the inclination to investigate all possibilities that show themselves in the hopes of finding a hidden nugget. More a matter of hoping to eliminate a family from consideration sometimes. :) Lacking records from the 1810 Ohio census makes things more difficult for those of us who have families who came to Ohio during the 1800-1820 time frame that's for sure. It seems you and I have much of the same information on Henry and family, sometimes with slightly differing dates but definitely tracking along the same lines. Regarding Frank Church/Black. Something else to consider checking might be the possibility that Frank's mother married one of the Black males (Robert would be the most likely possibility). Not as likely as having one of the daughters as his mother but still a possibility. It wouldn't be unusual for a family to refer to a step-grandchild as just a grandchild and for that child to eventually take on the step-father's last name. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lakeshore32 To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [OHPERRY] OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 106 BLACK DANIEL 40 M W PA OH PERRY MONDAY CRK TWP 1860; Elizabeth (his mother) 81; Nancy 48; Jane (his wife) 44, all born PA. BLACK DAVID 64 M W DE OH PERRY BEARFIELD TWP 1860; Mary 58; Rachel 37 b PA; Sarah 26 and Caroline 17 b PA. BLACK GEORGE G 31 M W OH OH PERRY JACKSON TWP 1860; Amelia A 27, Mary J 8, Isabella 7, Euphemia 5, Rebecca 3, John W age 1 *BLACK HENRY 51 M W PA OH PERRY MONDAY CRK TWP 1860 and Susana (Carey) b DE and family to include 3 dtrs, Rachel, Elizabeth, and Matilda b 1840. Mary Jane Black was born and died July 20, 1854 aged 1 yr 2mos 20 days, in Perry Co OH. The Black family moved to Hardin Co after the Civil War about 1864, where my grampa Frank E Black (1863 July 19 OH - 1927 May 16 California, railroad conductor) shows as FE Church age 6 in the 1870 census; also he shows as Frank Church in 1880. One of these ladies is his mother. Henry Black died 6/21/1879 and is buried at Woodlawn Cem; Susanna d 7/15/1892 (I have these records). :: Elizabeth Black who married 3/2/1872 John C/D Sleighter (also spelled as Slichter, Sleister, Sleichter) died 2/12/1874 and her husband John died 7/20/1879. They had Charles "Eddie" Sleichter in 1872 (d 1945 Calif) who married Minnie Kennedy and had a son, Ray W. Eddie was brakeman for the railroad and went onto California and was friend and kin to my grampa Frank E Church Black. Eddie shows in the 1880 census as grandson of Susanna (Carey) Black at Hardin Co OH. :: Rachel Black married 4/25/1877 James M Firestone. Rachel died 5/25/1906 age 69 yrs 11 mos at Liberty, with cancer and is buried next her husband in Woodlawn Cemetery, at Liberty Township in Hardin Co OH; no dates appear on his stone (Lot 65 Sec F). :: Matilda A Black born 1840 married 2/16/1867 James M Davis and they had several girls. She died 1921 and he died in 1908; they are buried in Section A Lot 16. Isaac W Black died 6/20/1934 Lot 26 Sec S. Also, Thomas I Black married 7/14/1871 Alminia McDonald at Hardin Co OH. Henry Black appears to be the son of William and Elizabeth Black from PA onto Perry Co OH; William there in 1820 and Elizabeth there in 1850 age 71 b PA living with her son Daniel 30 b PA and Jane 33 b PA. Nancy also there. Susannah Carey Black was the grandaughter of John Carey 82 per 1850 b DE who lives with his son, John 42 b DE and wife Jane 39 b PA and several children, Sam, etc. Susanna's father is Branson Carey. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 3:01 AM Subject: OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 106 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mary Jane Black b 1853 d 1854 daughter of HenryBlack-Susanna C... (pam) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:43:06 -0400 From: "pam" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OHPERRY] Mary Jane Black b 1853 d 1854 daughter of HenryBlack-Susanna C... To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Henry's parents are still in hiding unfortunately. Family lore has it that our heritage is German, however there is nothing I've found so far that would cement that as fact. A recent slog through census records has put that idea even more in doubt, though again it is all pure speculation. Rachel is not shown as being with the family in the 1850 census for Monday Creek, though she does appear in every census after that as a daughter to Henry & Susanna. I do find a Rachel Black, 13, (the right age) in the census for Rushcreek Twp, Fairfield Co living with Robert, 30, b OH Margaret, 60, b PA Daniel T, 19, b OH Martha, 20 b OH...(all 4 show they have real estate valued from $3000--Robert to $200 for the other 3) Then Rachel, 13, b OH Margaret Black, 81, b Ireland One dwelling before them is William Black, 29, b OH (real estate valued at $600) Elizabeth, 30, b OH John, 2, b OH The 1880 Census for this William indicates his mother was born in PA, his Father in Ireland. The fact that Robert, Daniel and Martha have property in their name and that Margaret (who I would assume to be their widowed mother) also has property in her name seems to indicate that they inherited said property. It is possible/likely that William, found "next door" could also be a son of the deceased and being younger than Robert received a smaller inheritance. It seems obvious that the elder Margaret Black must have been the mother of the deceased Black, husband of the younger Margaret and would not have reason to be left any part of an estate. That Rachel has no real estate in her name could mean that the father died prior to or shortly after her birth, or that she was not a direct family member. I have not found any records to date of a Rachel being associated with this family at any other time. All that to say--I haven't a clue as to who Henry's parents were, but I'm still digging and hoping. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [OHPERRY] Mary Jane Black b 1853 d 1854 daughter of HenryBlack-Susanna C... Hello I have copied your information and I do see the marriage of Henry Black and Susanna Cary in the Perry Co. marriage records, #163. Do you know who Henry's parents were? My Peter Black b. 7 July 1772 (France/Spain?) m. Charlotte Boyd.....supposedly in 19 November1798 (no proof) they came first to Fairfield Co., abt. 1803 (sold property in Fairfield Co. 1813) and a few years later moved to Perry Co. (1816 bought property) ch: Benoni b. 7 August 1800 MD Keziah b. 16 Feb. 1803 Mary 10 May 1805 Wm. B. 7 Mar. 1807 Demosthenes 20 June 1809 Allen 20 Aug. 1811 Charlotta 6 Aug. 1813 Charles 15 Nov. 1815 Drucilla 27 Feb. 1818 Israel 24 Feb. 1820 What I have on early Perry Co. Blacks: Wm. b. 1760-70 (1761?) Wm. Jr. b. 1780-90 (foreign born)...in the 1860 census there is a Wm. b. 1886 Ireland James b. 1780-90 Samuel (2 m. over 45 foreign born, b. pre 1775) only in 1820 census In the records of Bethel Cem, Rushcreek Twp., Fairfield Co. (borders Perry Co.) Wm. d. 14 Feb. 1844 83y. (1761) w. Mary Samuel d. 23 April 1840 (1783) w. Mary Ann Wm. Jr. b. in Co. Antrim, Ire. 1788 d. 9 June 1866 Joanne S.F., CA ------------------------------ To contact the OHPERRY list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the OHPERRY mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of OHPERRY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 106 *************************************** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/793 - Release Date: 5/7/2007 2:55 PM ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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