The Jackson clerk who told the researcher to possibly check Ross or Franklin counties wasn't that far off the mark--she really wasn't just trying to get rid of another pesky genealogist. Jackson Co was not formed until 1816, and of course there were people there before then. That is when you need to know what townships your people may have lived in, as Jackson was formed from parts of Scioto, Gallia, Athens and Ross counties. Therefore, prior to 1816, records of Jackson co people are in the parent counties. (She was off the mark about Franklin, though, as it was part of Ross Co--not the other way around.) You will find land records, marriages, wills & estates, divorces, real estate tax lists, criminal & civil cases, guardianships and such from the formation of each county only--so for Jackson, these start in 1816, for Vinton co they do not start until 1850. As has been stated several times recently on the list, OH did not keep birth and death records until 1867 (with a few exceptions--for instance, Pickaway co has some for 1856). These were kept at the county level until Dec 20, 1908--why they didn't wait 11 more days until 1909, the govt only knows <g>. Sometimes the names of parents are given on these early death records, but usually only for infants. However, there are notable exceptions, so it pays to check. I have an ancestor who died in Chillicothe in 1902 at the age of 90, and the names of her parents were given, including her mother's maiden name. Also, marriage license applications did not require the names of parents until 1899, unless either the bride or groom was underage and then a guardian was required to give consent. It would probably save courthouse employees a lot of time if they had some kind of a guide sheet so that they knew th ese things <g>. Plus, they would not aggravate as many people, who now think they are getting the brushoff or being flat-out lied to.

no message here ???? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: OHJACKSO-D Digest V04 #93

no message here????? ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: OHJACKSO-D Digest V04 #93

Dear Richard, Jackson Co. is right. Births and deaths didn't have to be recorded before 1867. Only marriage records were to be kept of the time OH becoame a state. I have researched about 60 counties in OH for my relatives and each co is the same. It is a toss up for records before 1867. Sometimes a county kept and recorded everything and some counties did what the state said. Go to Jackson and see what they have. The attic is very old, unsafe and a hazzard. They are having some company in Dublin, Oh copy some of the records on CD's, just to see how it works. Terri >From: "RICHARD LAND" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Records Before 1867 a"Toss Up" >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:58:46 +0000 > > >I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy >of my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her >response: > >"Our records begin with 1867. The records before that is a toss up. I >used to tell people that they could check in Ross County and then I had >this person that came back in here and jumped me good for telling them Ross >and they went there and they were not there so from then on I told them >Columbus, and then I had someone come in and growl at me because they were >not in Franklin. So I am not real sure about what to tell you." > >She included the mailing addresses for Ross and Franklin County Probate >Courts and stated she really hope they can help. > >My questions are what about the attic? What should I do next? > >Richard > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! >http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

In a message dated 4/11/2004 11:59:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy of my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her response: "Our records begin with 1867. What a lot of you out of state folks don't seem to get, is that 1867 is when most Ohio counties started keeping any kind of birth or death records. Before that there might be an incidental mention of a birth in someones estate filings, or in the local newspapers or church records. When they did start keeping records it was by the probate court, and reporting was not required. There are many of the births and deaths from 1867 to 1908 that were not recorded. It is usless to try to blame the local officials with laziness, stubborness, or inability, when there just aren't any such records to be found. Don Clark

I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy of my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her response: "Our records begin with 1867. The records before that is a toss up. I used to tell people that they could check in Ross County and then I had this person that came back in here and jumped me good for telling them Ross and they went there and they were not there so from then on I told them Columbus, and then I had someone come in and growl at me because they were not in Franklin. So I am not real sure about what to tell you." She included the mailing addresses for Ross and Franklin County Probate Courts and stated she really hope they can help. My questions are what about the attic? What should I do next? Richard _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

wish I lived there . I would definitely get done . I spent 30 years in the federal system and I knew how to get it done...keep up the good work Elmer. Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elmer Thorn" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [OHJACKSO-L] Records Before 1867 a"Toss Up" > Richard, if you live close by Jackson maybe the first step is to talk with > the commissioners and get thier imput as to how they feel about the value of > these historical records. Then start a grassroots group that will not give > rest until something is done. Yes ,you will get criticsism but don't let > that stop you. Your ancestors would have never been pioneers if they > listened to the nay voices that will always surround progress. Keep the > issue hot until action is taken. I suggest finding an organization or > businessmen or a local wealthy citizen that has some influence and will > help seek a solution to a place for storage of these records. Also keep > your genealogy group at your right hand. They should be the ones that can > receive these records. If there isn't a genealogy group there that is active > , form one. Don't let the negative stop you. Some of us out here on the > skirts will be behind anyone that is trying to preserve history and our > heritage. Let me know if I can help from a long distance in any way etc. I > will try to get a letter to the newspapers soon. " Keeping our history > alive" Et > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RICHARD LAND" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:58 AM > Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Records Before 1867 a"Toss Up" > > > > > > I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy > of > > my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her response: > > > > "Our records begin with 1867. The records before that is a toss up. I > used > > to tell people that they could check in Ross County and then I had this > > person that came back in here and jumped me good for telling them Ross and > > they went there and they were not there so from then on I told them > > Columbus, and then I had someone come in and growl at me because they were > > not in Franklin. So I am not real sure about what to tell you." > > > > She included the mailing addresses for Ross and Franklin County Probate > > Courts and stated she really hope they can help. > > > > My questions are what about the attic? What should I do next? > > > > Richard > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar - FREE! > > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > > > > >

richard Kooks like there is some people there with an attitude . if i was there you would get what you wanted . i worked for the government for 30 years and you didn,t get away with that , we had a DIN team . do it now ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "RICHARD LAND" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:58 AM Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Records Before 1867 a"Toss Up" > > I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy of > my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her response: > > "Our records begin with 1867. The records before that is a toss up. I used > to tell people that they could check in Ross County and then I had this > person that came back in here and jumped me good for telling them Ross and > they went there and they were not there so from then on I told them > Columbus, and then I had someone come in and growl at me because they were > not in Franklin. So I am not real sure about what to tell you." > > She included the mailing addresses for Ross and Franklin County Probate > Courts and stated she really hope they can help. > > My questions are what about the attic? What should I do next? > > Richard > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar - FREE! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > >

Crystal, I vote for going ahead with your trip to Jackson. I have had very good results each time I have visited there. I have never had any problem with the ladies in the court house or the health department. The folks in the library are also very helpful. I think their genealogical material is on the shy side, but I have had good results there. I found the library in McArthur (Vinton County) had a lot more genealogical material, including a lot of Jackson County info. I have enjoyed each of my visits, and have had good results in my research. I have always found the people there friendly and helpful. I think the problem that is being addressed exists to some extent in every county courthouse. Tight budgets, and not being able to hire all the folks needed to perform all the services expected. Go, and have a good time. Jackson and Vinton Counties are beautiful this time of year. Happy hunting, Harold in Florida

Richard, if you live close by Jackson maybe the first step is to talk with the commissioners and get thier imput as to how they feel about the value of these historical records. Then start a grassroots group that will not give rest until something is done. Yes ,you will get criticsism but don't let that stop you. Your ancestors would have never been pioneers if they listened to the nay voices that will always surround progress. Keep the issue hot until action is taken. I suggest finding an organization or businessmen or a local wealthy citizen that has some influence and will help seek a solution to a place for storage of these records. Also keep your genealogy group at your right hand. They should be the ones that can receive these records. If there isn't a genealogy group there that is active , form one. Don't let the negative stop you. Some of us out here on the skirts will be behind anyone that is trying to preserve history and our heritage. Let me know if I can help from a long distance in any way etc. I will try to get a letter to the newspapers soon. " Keeping our history alive" Et ----- Original Message ----- From: "RICHARD LAND" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:58 AM Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Records Before 1867 a"Toss Up" > > I recently requested that the Jackson County Probate Clerk send me a copy of > my great grandfather's 1831 birth record. The following is her response: > > "Our records begin with 1867. The records before that is a toss up. I used > to tell people that they could check in Ross County and then I had this > person that came back in here and jumped me good for telling them Ross and > they went there and they were not there so from then on I told them > Columbus, and then I had someone come in and growl at me because they were > not in Franklin. So I am not real sure about what to tell you." > > She included the mailing addresses for Ross and Franklin County Probate > Courts and stated she really hope they can help. > > My questions are what about the attic? What should I do next? > > Richard > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar - FREE! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > >

There are a lot of records to be found in genealogy in Jackson. Not just the tax & cemetery records there is the Library and Jones Museum plus all the records and names plus the other info that are in Jackson and counties nearby. Yes I think you will find a lot by coming to Jackson, whether you re new or advanced in genealogy. Its also a wonderful place to live ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:20 AM Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Re: Jackson Clerk of Courts > Hi all, been watching these messages and I have to ask, I was planning a trip > for four days to Jackson Co, middle of May, should I not go? Will I not find > what I need, will I not get help, Im still (in my mind anyway) new to > geneology and would need some help in locating records and knowing what my next step > should be, so do I just skip trying to go to Jackson and maybe go to Vinton or > other counties my family lived in? I do need to go if for no other reason to > see Byers Cemetery but I wanted to get into the records and what not. So please > tell me if this would be a wasted trip. > Thanks in advance, > Crystal > > >

Crystal, Just because some of us had a negative experience, myself included, in the courthouse does not mean yours won't be a positive. Never hesitate to go where your ancestors were. Dig in the libraries, the museums, the cemeteries, and yes, the courthouse. Maybe you won't find a thing, but you will "feel" where your ancestors lived their lives - a very moving experience. Sharon Kisor Elmer Thorn <[email protected]> wrote: Crystal, By all means go. They are very helpful and just have your list of who you are looking for and dates. You will find some good info there. It is some of the older records in the attic we have been referring to. like tax records. I went last year and was so glad I did. It is a wonderful place to visit. I may return this year for a few more days. Et ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Re: Jackson Clerk of Courts > Hi all, been watching these messages and I have to ask, I was planning a trip > for four days to Jackson Co, middle of May, should I not go? Will I not find > what I need, will I not get help, Im still (in my mind anyway) new to > geneology and would need some help in locating records and knowing what my next step > should be, so do I just skip trying to go to Jackson and maybe go to Vinton or > other counties my family lived in? I do need to go if for no other reason to > see Byers Cemetery but I wanted to get into the records and what not. So please > tell me if this would be a wasted trip. > Thanks in advance, > Crystal > >

Hi all, been watching these messages and I have to ask, I was planning a trip for four days to Jackson Co, middle of May, should I not go? Will I not find what I need, will I not get help, Im still (in my mind anyway) new to geneology and would need some help in locating records and knowing what my next step should be, so do I just skip trying to go to Jackson and maybe go to Vinton or other counties my family lived in? I do need to go if for no other reason to see Byers Cemetery but I wanted to get into the records and what not. So please tell me if this would be a wasted trip. Thanks in advance, Crystal

Crystal, By all means go. They are very helpful and just have your list of who you are looking for and dates. You will find some good info there. It is some of the older records in the attic we have been referring to. like tax records. I went last year and was so glad I did. It is a wonderful place to visit. I may return this year for a few more days. Et ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:20 PM Subject: [OHJACKSO-L] Re: Jackson Clerk of Courts > Hi all, been watching these messages and I have to ask, I was planning a trip > for four days to Jackson Co, middle of May, should I not go? Will I not find > what I need, will I not get help, Im still (in my mind anyway) new to > geneology and would need some help in locating records and knowing what my next step > should be, so do I just skip trying to go to Jackson and maybe go to Vinton or > other counties my family lived in? I do need to go if for no other reason to > see Byers Cemetery but I wanted to get into the records and what not. So please > tell me if this would be a wasted trip. > Thanks in advance, > Crystal > >

Iwould like to find a photo of the old Jr. O.U.A.M. Lodge Hall @ Leo Oh Jackson Twp ----ANYBODY ???? [email protected]

I am looking for info on a James Perkins that married a Melissa Thorn abt 1859 in Jackson Co. I have them in my family tree and failed to verify the resource. I have Melissa b abt 1842 to John Thorn. In the 1850 census she is not listed as a daughter. Now I'm confused where I got the info on her. Does anyone know of this couple that might be researching the Perkins side? Any help on any record would be appreciated. Et

I am on my way out the door, but happened to think that perhaps what I wrote earlier concerning fines against counties who do not maintain records could be construed as meaning that OHS has the power to do so. They do NOT have this responsibility--OHS is responsible for determining which records are historically important and how long they should be kept (for instance, wills and estates must always be retained, while dog licenses are only kept for 5 yrs or whatever). But OHS accepts and maintains certain records from counties if those counties are unable or unwilling to maintain them. The fines, if still on the books, are through the State Auditor's Office. We used to have an excellent person helping Tom Ferguson years ago--Thomas A Burke. Being a genealogist himself, he had an extra concern for maintaining records, and wasn't shy about confronting county officials. He is no longer there, of course and I have been gone so long I don't know what the current State Auditor's policy is. But again, that is a last resort, and I encourage those of you there locally to work with Dr Bain and Jim Anderson regarding the plight of the attic records. And now I'm off to see Riverdance....Tacy

Hi Kathy, I hope Jackson Co. takes your suggestions to heart, that was a well informed e-mail you sent them. Happy Easter, Judi

Hey There Everyone! I am new to genealogy research and looking for my family lines. I have had "no problem" with Jackson County Probate Court nor with their County Health Department. They have went out of their way to help me in my quest. Other counties i have contacted have turned a cold shoulder when asked. Tom Anderson Lima, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Re: [OHJACKSO-L] Courthouse records issue > Helen > I live in Jackson and I work with Karen on many thin's and where it is true that "Some" of the ladies at the courthouse aren't informaed or "equipped" to handle thing's aother's are not. I have nothing but success in all of my searches there and in them getting the information and copies that I need. If it isn't there it isn't there. If you have been to the courthouse then you have seen the way the old books look in probate and whereas there was a marriage or something that was once recorded it may not be able to be found because there ARE pages missing from these books. One of the nice ladies at the probate office was sent elsewhere to find an OLD file for the courthouse while in the process of looking for this she found Will Book A and returned it to the courthouse because so many people request thing's from there. I do not want to step on toes here but I think it is unfair to judhe the ladies working at the courthouse because they do the best that they can and I have left! > long list of wills/estates etc and have gotten them looked up and every page copied and a courtesy call to come get them in around 2 days to a week. They help as much as they can there...along with doing their own jobs.If you look back through Jackson county history there has always been a problem in keeping and preserving records. There are many to blame in this. I have spoken with several people in Jackson about these thing's. Shane Goodman is the new Mayor and he seem's nice enough but I don't know at this time on his feeling's about the old records and thing's at the courthouse but I do know that several organizations were looking for storage space at one time for these records and said none were available in Jackson...what people don't know is that the Courthouse does have a storage somewhere because that is where the clerk found the old file and Will Book A. It has been brought to the Genealogy Society's attention as Karen and several other's have mentioned it to the! > m, but their hands are pretty much tied until they get permission to o > btain these records and then they too have no where to store these records. They operate out of the Jackson City Library and there is no room there and the Society does not make enough money to purchase a larger place to help in preservation of these records. I make weekly trips to the courthouse and the one's are in very bad shape in the various departments but the one's people should really throw a fit about is all the one's in the attic that are just throwed on the floor in piles, corners etc and have bird crap all over them and dust so thick you can barely breathe. I have seen many posts on this subject on the list and I am sorry if I offend anybody but I just wanted to throw in my two cents as well. I was told by one nice lady that there was "talk" of putting these records onto a "computer" somehow but no definate plans were made and that they were going to "look" for someone to do this for them, and that they were "supposedly" waiting on "approved" funds to get this do! > ne. Last I talked to this person [who does work there} nothing has been planned or taken care of and they have heard nothing else. Plus in the last year as I have been in there, there have been several rude people come in demanding information on someone that they do not even know the correct name of and have no dates or anything and the ladies cannot help like that, because if they have nothing to go on or a correct name how can they find someone and there have also been a few people try to "walk out" with thing's there. One nice lady even took old photos off of the wall and made copies for a nice old man who came from way out of town. So I think they do a good enough job there, it isn't their fault that Jackson's Officials don't care about this stuff. Karen does try to do what she can but right now she has alot going on from where her husband had back surgery and all, but she does speak up when she can. Once again I am sorry if I offended anybody just thought I would thro! > w in what I know and have seen. > Schannon > > > > From: <[email protected]> > > Date: 2004/04/10 Sat PM 12:07:17 EDT > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Re: [OHJACKSO-L] Courthouse records issue > > > > Hi Karen Davis, > > > > PS. I'll be through the area April 26. Thanks for help in cemeteries. > > > > Gallia Co has also given it's OLDEST wills/estate records to the Genealogical Society in Galliapolis. Unfortunately, the records are falling apart and I'm not sure IF they were microfilmed before they were donated to them. So this could result in them being unreadable very soon. Space could become a problem for a Genealogical society if they accept records. Gallia Co courthouse was writing a GRANT request in about 2001 to get some help on costs to microfilm. I'm not sure how that turned out. Why doesn't Jackson county look for OUTSIDE help? They never let their records be microfilmed by WPA or the Mormans. Surely Jackson Co could qualify for some funding. I even proposed this to the governor in 2003 when the cost of documents was being raised to $15.00 with no uncertified copies available because of the disportionate need of Jackson, Gallia, and Vinton County (# of requests vs. tax base ratio in those counties). > > > > (I know you're just the messenger, but I hope you can convey this info to the NEW MAYOR of Jackson Co. I don't think they realize how much travel (including gas/meals and possibly lodging) that folks do from out of town to do research in Jackson and it's one of the most "difficult" places to do research. Yes, they recently added a little room for folks at the courthouse at about the time the state raised the rates to $15.00 for b/d certificates. > > > > The Register of Deeds here where I moved, gives $5M BACK to the county just based on USER FEES alone, above their costs, to run their department. Counties like Jackson, Gallia (and possibly Washington County--the oldest in OHIO?) get a disportionate amount of requests since they are the OLDEST and instead of understanding the issue and going with the FLOW to make it work, they have dragged their heels, in the past, refusing modern but also cost effective ways to deal with the issue and turn it into a "plus" for visitors to come to Jackson. > > > > No statistics are kept at Jackson County on number of requests. Also, because they don't have a policy in the courthouse, nor understand the genealogy "process", they have ill-equipped the young ladies in the department to know what is a "REASONABLE" request and which requires a referral for "UNREASONABLE" requests to "paid researchers." The ladies are not required to "GIVE ME ALL YOU HAVE ON A SURNAME" or my "Aunt Jennie married sometime between 1800-1850. Find her." > > > > Because there is lack of understanding the young ladies in the department deam it a "chore" to respond. It is NOT the main focus of their job which is to serve the citizens of the community who are the current tax payers and to the attorneys who practice through this courthouse. BUT other counties have solved this problem, Jackson County needs a strategy, and a method to get funding to make it happen to enable them to reap economic benefits while serving the community. They have an untapped economic benefit in their genealogical records. They could host one more event (besides Apples Days, etc) for "Old Settlers Day." A day to encourage, FAMILY reunions by SURNAMES in the area, to open up the historical places (Buckeye, Welch Museum), to have the genealogical societies host "programs"--for small fees and to sell cemetery books, etc. to have someone present "talking history" of Fairmount Cemetery or "Ridgewood Cemetery". Their records could be a big PLUS. But again! > ,i! > > t is one of the worst counties for gaining access to records and I have been doing this for over 25 years in over 7 states and too many counties to mention and so speak from experience of comparison. If you now someone in government, please pass this along. There are people out here that would volunteer their TIME if they could solve their "vision" of what they think should happen to government records that they are ENTRUSTED to perserve. > > > > Helen > > > > > > From: "Kathy Hines" <[email protected]> > > > Date: 2004/04/10 Sat AM 08:58:57 EDT > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [OHJACKSO-L] Courthouse records issue > > > > > > Karen, > > > > > > Depending upon how active your genealogy society is, perhaps they could act > > > as the storage site. Here in Hardin County, once the records are > > > microfilmed, the court has given us many of the original probate volumes. > > > We have an entire room dedicated to court records begining with the chancery > > > courts and including many probate documents. The probate court has also > > > given us permission to copy all delayed birth records from the beginning of > > > Hardin Co. recording them. In fact we have so many records that we are now > > > in the process of refurbushing another room to hold the additional volumes > > > that are being given to us. I invite anyone with Hardin County roots to > > > visit the Hardin Co. Genealogy Society, you will be absolutely amazed at the > > > amount of material we have. We are easy to find, if anyone is interested in > > > finding us let me know. > > > > > > Kathy Hines > > > > > > > > > > >

In a message dated 4/10/2004 11:07:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > The County Commissioners is the one's that have to approve everything and > it has been brought before them, only other people you could bring it to would > maybe be the state or something. > Yes, I know the County Commissioners have the ultimate say-so in this matter, but if someone within their own group of county officials is on our side, it couldn't hurt <g>. You might contact (of have Bob Walton contact) either George Bain and/or Jim Anderson at the Alden library there at OU, the area repository for OHS. They are the ones who work with the counties in that area of the state to try to preserve records. Perhaps either or both of them could offer some suggestions. The OH Historical Soc is empowered by the state to make sure that certain county records of historical nature are maintained. I don't know about now, but there used to be big fines involved for flagrant disregard of the regulations. Before it would come to that, though, these fellows might be able to offer some advice as to how to proceed. And on a different note, it should be noted that the new $15 fee for birth and death records does NOT go to the courthouse, but instead to the local Health Departments as they have the births and deaths after Dec 20, 1908. Tacy