Thanks, Tom. That explains why I did not see Vincent on the 1880. I had a family listed backwards once, too -- finally found them, but it took a while. Pavla Chandler, TX
Oh, this is irritating -- not y'all at all -- I sent an email through at 4:06 p.m. and it has still not come through. I cc it to Hamilton co list, too. Anyway, I copied/pasted my email here & am trying again to get the thing to go through quickly!! Pavla Chandler Subj: HAMILT/BUTLER Cos. -DILL again/1900 data on Matthew Date: 1/16/2006 4:06:43 PM Central Standard Time From: CHANDLERPRIME To: OHBUTLER-L@rootsweb.com CC: OHHAMILT-L@rootsweb.com Ok, wanted to know for myself re Matthew, etc. So, following up on my last email I looked up Matthew DILL on the 1900 census: 1900 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH, enumerated 16 June 1900: 168 179 Mathew Dill, Head, W, M, born Mar 1841, 59, Widowed , b OH, parents b Pennsylvania, Ohio, Farmer George L. Dill, Son, W, M, born September 1880, 19, Single, b OH, parents b OH and IA, Farm Laborer According to this Matthew was widowed, meaning he'd been married. He has a son born in Sept of 1880, 3 months after that 1880 census of Ann, Mathew, Mary and Charles was done. So as of A, M, M and C being together in 1880, at that very time a woman/wife was carrying Matthew's child, 3 months away from birth. Per this, I figure Mary was Mathew's wife vs a sister. Too, I figure this Mary must have died before the 1900 census was done. Death records might confirm this or disprove this. So might getting George, the son's, death record - as it could name his parents. Anyway, wanted to post this through. This is theory only now, that Mary was wife not sister -- but I think it's likely. Just need more research to know for sure. Pavla Chandler, TX There's always more information out there, just sometimes takes a bit to find it. Too, my theory above is only that - theory. It too could be disproven, for example if George L was written down as son but really was not biological son. Still, I kinda think George was Matthew's son, so... always more possibilities!
Hi, Tom. I'm glad you sent that information through. It helps, gives more info that's needed. I sent through an email saying I did not think Vincent's Charles was the same as the Charles w/Ann and Margaret. Thank you for confirming that. Just out of curiousity, are you aware of any ties to the John/Ann/Margaret/other Dill family? The one in Green, Hamilton co, OH? Or, any Dill ties into Hamilton county, OH? Pavla Chandler, TX
Yes, these are the same census records that Gale (Wallen) and I found. What I did find was Elias F. Dill's Civil War records which show that his mother, Ann Dill, filed documents to the government to get Elias' pension after he died from typhoid fever in the war. Ann Dill said that her husband, John, had "gone west" on a trip after 1850 and was never heard from again. Ann then married a Godfrey Morgan in 1858 but after he desserted her a few months later, she eventually divorced him in 1865. She changed her name back to Dill in the next census year of 1870. We've also wondered if Charles could have been the child of Margaret Dill. There were other Dills in Hamilton County as well as in Darke County during this time and I wondered if Charles might have belonged to one of the other Dills. This is just speculation. According to Ann Dill's property records from Darke County, her son Matthew was married in 1872. But who was his wife? And what happened to her? Or could she be the "Mary Dill" that shows up in the 1880 census of Hamilton County under Ann Dill? She is listed in that census as the daughter of Ann Dill. However, Mary's status is shown as widowed. So, where did she come from and whose wife was she before she married Matthew Dill? Her maiden name was Wood. Matthew and Mary had one child, a son, who was my grandfather, George Dill. He was born in Sept. 1880 in Hamilton County, OH. I have been unable to find a marriage record for Matthew and Mary. Nor can I find a birth record for George Dill. This is one BIG WALL that Gale and I have been trying to chip away at for three years. Perhaps a fresh outlook from someone else such as yourself will be the key. Oh, one last thing. You mentioned at the end of your email about our finding vital records. I would LOVE to find them but I do not know where to go for these, especially since I live in Indianapolis and the vital records are probably in Hamilton County somewhere. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, especially if I could do it by regular mail. Thanks so much for your interest, Ann. This is very kind of you. My best, Barbara in Indiana Ann Trimmer <ann@trimmer.net> wrote: If you use the 1850 Green Twp, Hamilton Co census with John D Dill 44 Ann 39 Cort A 15 Margt 13 Mathew 11 Elias F 7 and the one I just found 1860 Crosby Twp, Hamilton Co OH p452 Mathew Dill 21 Famer OH Anna Dill 47 House work OH Margaret Dill 23 House work OH Elias Dill 17 Farm Laborer OH Samuel Pesline 6 then John was dead by the time Charles was born in July 1861, as well as dead by June 1860. This does make it harder for Ann and John to have been Charles parents. This makes it look way more like Margaret was Charles's maybe, unwed mother and he was then adopted by his grandmother. I don't even want to start in on who the heck Samuel Pesline was! I'd say much of this can be cleared up by looking at some vital records! Ann ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== Butler County American History & Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/oh/county/butler
Ok, wanted to know for myself re Matthew, etc. So, following up on my last email I looked up Matthew DILL on the 1900 census: 1900 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH, enumerated 16 June 1900: 168 179 Mathew Dill, Head, W, M, born Mar 1841, 59, Widowed , b OH, parents b Pennsylvania, Ohio, Farmer George L. Dill, Son, W, M, born September 1880, 19, Single, b OH, parents b OH and IA, Farm Laborer According to this Matthew was widowed, meaning he'd been married. He has a son born in Sept of 1880, 3 months after that 1880 census of Ann, Mathew, Mary and Charles was done. So as of A, M, M and C being together in 1880, at that very time a woman/wife was carrying Matthew's child, 3 months away from birth. Per this, I figure Mary was Mathew's wife vs a sister. Too, I figure this Mary must have died before the 1900 census was done. Death records might confirm this or disprove this. So might getting George, the son's, death record - as it could name his parents. Anyway, wanted to post this through. This is theory only now, that Mary was wife not sister -- but I think it's likely. Just need more research to know for sure. Pavla Chandler, TX There's always more information out there, just sometimes takes a bit to find it. Too, my theory above is only that - theory. It too could be disproven, for example if George L was written down as son but really was not biological son. Still, I kinda think George was Matthew's son, so... always more possibilities!
Hello, Ann (Trimmer). Glad someone else has been looking at the Dills, too. Glad you listed information, too! First, I need to address the issue of Charles. I think you've misinterpreted my stance on Vincent Dill who has a son Charles (at least, you've misinterpreted if you think I was saying Vincent's Charles was the same as the other Charles living w/Ann and Margaret). I do NOT think this Charles is the same Charles as living w/Ann and Margaret on the 1870 Crosby, Hamilt co, OH census. What I said was when I originally looked, Vincent's Charles was the closest-aged Charles Dill I found in that area on the 1860 census (this was going by the 1870 census data provided originally by Barbara, saying Charles was 10 already). When I followed Vincent w/son Charles down to Indiana on the 1870 census, I showed the date the 1870 IN census was done and the date the 1870 OH census done. The reason I showed the dates was to show it was improbable that it was the same Charles. I said you never know for sure, tho (meaning, you need proofs to be sure of anything, also I've seen any number of strange things written in records here and there, etc.). I posted the information about Vincent merely to cover all bases & show what all information I looked at, NOT to say it was the same Charles. Next, I did not not follow Charles on down to the 1880. Using your information - Ann, though, about 1880 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH, you said: Ann 68 Matthew 41 son Mary 38 dau Charles son Okay, that can still be the same Ann w/others as the 1850 and 1860. The Mary who is listed may actually be Margaret but with the wrong age written. That's a possibility, depending on who gave the enumerator the information. That's what I'll call Possibility #1. And, it would explain Margaret being in the family 1850 and 60, then 1870 too but put down as Mary (or nickname). It would also mean we would not need to find a Mary in earlier censuses. Possiblity #2 is the Mary could be Matthew's wife. Sometimes when children marry, their parents consider the spouses as their kids, too. Not all the times, but sometimes. This 2nd possibility could explain the absence of a "Mary" in Ann's household on the 1850 and 1860 censuses. Third, I'm glad you looked to see if there were any Ann Dills in Hamilton county on the 1860 census. But, I don't think we have to stick with Hamilton county. I think with Butler (Hamilton twp) being so near, we must not rule out that Ann w/family moved to a different spot a little bit away. I do not think either of the two Ann Dills in Hamilton county are the same Ann; I DO think the one living in Hamilton twp, Butler co, OH IS the right Ann. Beyond the above, looking at marriage records for Hamiton county might help a bit or even birth records, if any are available or restored for that time period: a) births of the Dill children, Cort A, Margaret, Matthew, Elias, others including Charles? Is there a Mary? b) Dill marriages - for example, is there a marriage for a Matthew Dill recorded? (Like to a Mary?) c) following Matthew on to the 1900 census could give information: like, is he with a family, with sister/others? While the 1880 census gave more information than earlier ones (1850-1870), so does the 1900. The 1900 too would give relationship information of all folks in the home with regard to the head of home. As a matter of fact, I might look for that a bit later, unless someone else does first. Anyway, wanted to put this through re the Dills. Pavla Chandler, TX
I've been digging in the Dills too and in 1850 and 1860 things are murky at best. The leap from 1900, where the Charles Dill we've been following is listed as having been born in July 1861, to the 1880 is really not giving us any proof this is the right Charles. That Ann Dill in 1880 in Crosby Twp, Hamilton Co, at 68, has Ann 68 Matthew 41 son(ie born abt 1839), Mary 38 dau ie b. abt 1842, Charles 20, son In the 1870 still in Crosby Twp, Hamilton Co You get Ann 58, Charles 10, son Margaret 33 dau(ie b. abt 1837). In 1860 and things are less clear. If you look for Ann, who seems to have been born about 1812, judging from the 1880 and 1870, then the only one who comes close in age , is 1860 MillCreek Twp, Hamilton Co Sarah Ann Dill 46 b abt 1814. Salinus 16 Elizabeth J 11 Mary 83 On this same page is Richard Dill 42 Ann 37, b. abt 1823 Harriet 13 Edmund W 10 Elizabeth J 9 Elvira 5 Also on this page is the family of James Dill. None of the known children, Margaret, Matthew or Mary show up here, although they could have left home. If you search for Charles (who according to the 1900 wasn't born, you run into Vincent's family and the 6 month old Charles, the twin. in St Clair Tpw, 2st Ward, Hamilton, Butler Co So I tried in 1850 for Ann and/or, the older siblings living with the Charles and Ann in the 1870 and 80 (Margaret b 1837, Matthew b. 1839 and Mary b. 1842.) Well 2 different Ann Dills show up The one is 1850 Green Twp, Hamilton Co John D Dill. 44 Ann 39 Cort? A 15 Margt 13 Mathew 11 Elias F 7 ok, both Margaret and Matthew are the right age BUT where is Mary? She should be 8! The other Ann Dills in 1850 are on the same page but 10 yrs apart. In Millcreek Twp, Hamilton Co Samuel Dill 40 Ann 36 Selanus 6 Elizabeth 2 Mary 73 and next door Richard Dill 34 Ann 26 Harriet 4 Edmund 3 Mary 1 and a whole list of laborers,living with them There are clearly the same 2 families in the 1850 and the 1860, but it sure isn't clear to me, which of these might be the Ann with a Charles, seen in 1870 and 1880. How can it be the Ann married to John D, when Mary is missing? The Charles Dill we've been following was born in July 1861 from the 1900 census. SO, assuming that is right, he can't be the twin born to Vincent in 1860. Maybe I've worn out, but I keep wondering how we know the Charles in 1900 is the one in 1880 and just which of the 1850 and 1860 Ann's match with 1870 and 1880. Ann
Hello Tom, The Charles Dill that Gale Wallen (in Illinois) and I are searching for was 'supposedly' the son of Ann Dill in Crosby Twp., Hamilton County, OH, according to the census. But Ann--who was my gggrandmother--was 48 years old at that time. So she could not have been Charles' mother. Gale Wallen's husband is a direct descendent of Charles and Jennie Dill. Gale and I have been trying for about 3 years to figure out who Charles' parents were. May I get back to you later? I need to get to bed right now as I have to work tomorrow. So glad to hear from you, and I will digest your email more tomorrow or the next day. Thanks so much for responding. Barbara (nee Dill) Noble in Indiana thomas dill <tdill1936@yahoo.com> wrote: The Charles you found is from my side of the Dill's, Vincent Dill was my ggrandfather his father was James born in Del. to Vincent and Esther Dill, James had a brother Solomon who died in Miami Co. Ohio, James and his family settled in Bartholomew Co. In. Vincent Dill was married 4 times #1 Sarah Jane Willis, #2 Adaline Purvis, # 3 Matilda ??, # 4 Louisa Rebecca Stephens John J. Dill was my grandfather. Tom Dill Colorado Springs. Co. CHANDLERPRIME@wmconnect.com wrote: Hi again. Figured I was about to ignore some information myself, so thought I'd post it, too. This is regarding the Charles I found as a baby on the 1860 census w/father Vincent. I said I sort of eliminated this Charles per having found him again in 1870 w/father, alive and age 10. I was thinking this was not our Charles as our Charles was at the same time on the 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census. But it dawned on me I should not just eliminate this family, because you never know. So I went back, came across something interesting. At least, I think it's interesting. So, I'll post about it. 1860 St Clair twp, 1st Ward, N. Hamilton, Butler co, OH, enumerated 16 Jun 1860: 458 436 Vincent Dill, 24, M, Laborer, b OH Sarah, 22, F, b OH Margaret A, 4, F, b OH John J., 3, M, b OH Charles, 6/12, M, b OH William, 6/12, M, b OH (w/Charles' & Wm's names it says "twins.") Ok, this is the Charles I found as a baby, I think the only one I found for Hamilton/Butler counties in Ohio with the closest age (I think I remember right). I followed the family into 1870: 1870 Clay, Bartholomew co, Indiana, enumerated 14 Jul 1870: 149 144 Vincent Dill, 29, M, W, Farm Labour, b OH Matelda/Matilda, 18, F, W, Keeping house, b IN John, 13, M, W, at home, b IN Charles, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Wm, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Joseph, 0/12 or 6/12, M, W, b IN I'm not worried about it saying John was b in IN, nor about Vincent's age showing as it is. Some persons lied about their ages to spouses. Some did not even discuss it. Matilda might have been guessing his age. Who knows? But this was the only Dill family I found w/a Vincent at the head and the 3 boys' names right, w/ages pretty right. So, I figure first wife died & Vincent remarried this younger Matilda, then had another baby. It dawned on me that even though Charles here is 10 yrs old and our for-sure Charles was 10 same year living with Ann and Margaret Dill in a different county and state, you never know for sure. Sometimes people died & had to quickly go live with relatives, so... I checked enumeration dates. Vincent's family was enumerated 14 Jul 1870 in IN. Charles with Ann and Margaret were enumerated on 29 Jun 1870 in OH. So, unlikely it's the same Charles but I realized I had not compared the enumeration dates earlier. Anyway, I thought I'd look for Vincent/Matilda again in the 1880 census. I did not find Vincent, though. Now I did not do a real dig-dig type search but still -- it looks like Vincent might have been dead sometime after that 1870 census. I found other Vincents in the US but w/different birthyears, a bit farther removed that I like. I found some Matildas, some in OH, but rather farther-off birthyears, too (like Matilda Dill living in Hamilton co but b ca 1841 rather than 1852 when I think the one w/Vincent was born). Anyway... I did not search for Vincent's children, as that would take a while. I just thought it was interesting, my not finding Vincent w/family right off. Just figured I should post this thru since Vincent Dill started off right near where our Charles Dill w/Ann and Margaret were enumerated in 1870. Butler county and Hamilton county are right next door to each other. Hamilton in Butler county is at the bottom of the county maybe 5-10 miles from Hamilton county limits. I did not see Crosby on my Ohio atlas, but Groesbeck (that's the post office Ann, Charles and Margaret Dill were listed as served by on that 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census) is about mid-left in Hamilton county. If I'm judging right, there are only about maybe 15 miles between Groesbeck in H co and Hamilton in B county. I'm in Texas, looking at my 2003-definitely-needing-to-be-replaced-atlas. Y'all in Ohio, is that right -- the distance I think? Anyway, the Dill families in the 2 counties were not that far apart, tho living there different years. So, they could have been related. Figured I'd better add this, just in case... Pavla Chandler, TX ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE: Send a message to: OHBUTLER-L-request@rootsweb.com or OHBUTLER-D-request@rootsweb.com Put SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE (whichever you want to do) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== Search for surnames in the 1882 History of Butler County ~ http://surhelp-bin.rootsweb.com/surindx.pl?site=OHBUTLER
Vincent Dill is listed in the 1880 census as Dill Vinson and all the children were listed with the surname Vinson including his mother Hesther, Vincent died 1893 and is buried in City Cemetery, Bartholomew County, Columbus, Indiana. Tom Dill CHANDLERPRIME@wmconnect.com wrote: Hi again. Figured I was about to ignore some information myself, so thought I'd post it, too. This is regarding the Charles I found as a baby on the 1860 census w/father Vincent. I said I sort of eliminated this Charles per having found him again in 1870 w/father, alive and age 10. I was thinking this was not our Charles as our Charles was at the same time on the 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census. But it dawned on me I should not just eliminate this family, because you never know. So I went back, came across something interesting. At least, I think it's interesting. So, I'll post about it. 1860 St Clair twp, 1st Ward, N. Hamilton, Butler co, OH, enumerated 16 Jun 1860: 458 436 Vincent Dill, 24, M, Laborer, b OH Sarah, 22, F, b OH Margaret A, 4, F, b OH John J., 3, M, b OH Charles, 6/12, M, b OH William, 6/12, M, b OH (w/Charles' & Wm's names it says "twins.") Ok, this is the Charles I found as a baby, I think the only one I found for Hamilton/Butler counties in Ohio with the closest age (I think I remember right). I followed the family into 1870: 1870 Clay, Bartholomew co, Indiana, enumerated 14 Jul 1870: 149 144 Vincent Dill, 29, M, W, Farm Labour, b OH Matelda/Matilda, 18, F, W, Keeping house, b IN John, 13, M, W, at home, b IN Charles, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Wm, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Joseph, 0/12 or 6/12, M, W, b IN I'm not worried about it saying John was b in IN, nor about Vincent's age showing as it is. Some persons lied about their ages to spouses. Some did not even discuss it. Matilda might have been guessing his age. Who knows? But this was the only Dill family I found w/a Vincent at the head and the 3 boys' names right, w/ages pretty right. So, I figure first wife died & Vincent remarried this younger Matilda, then had another baby. It dawned on me that even though Charles here is 10 yrs old and our for-sure Charles was 10 same year living with Ann and Margaret Dill in a different county and state, you never know for sure. Sometimes people died & had to quickly go live with relatives, so... I checked enumeration dates. Vincent's family was enumerated 14 Jul 1870 in IN. Charles with Ann and Margaret were enumerated on 29 Jun 1870 in OH. So, unlikely it's the same Charles but I realized I had not compared the enumeration dates earlier. Anyway, I thought I'd look for Vincent/Matilda again in the 1880 census. I did not find Vincent, though. Now I did not do a real dig-dig type search but still -- it looks like Vincent might have been dead sometime after that 1870 census. I found other Vincents in the US but w/different birthyears, a bit farther removed that I like. I found some Matildas, some in OH, but rather farther-off birthyears, too (like Matilda Dill living in Hamilton co but b ca 1841 rather than 1852 when I think the one w/Vincent was born). Anyway... I did not search for Vincent's children, as that would take a while. I just thought it was interesting, my not finding Vincent w/family right off. Just figured I should post this thru since Vincent Dill started off right near where our Charles Dill w/Ann and Margaret were enumerated in 1870. Butler county and Hamilton county are right next door to each other. Hamilton in Butler county is at the bottom of the county maybe 5-10 miles from Hamilton county limits. I did not see Crosby on my Ohio atlas, but Groesbeck (that's the post office Ann, Charles and Margaret Dill were listed as served by on that 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census) is about mid-left in Hamilton county. If I'm judging right, there are only about maybe 15 miles between Groesbeck in H co and Hamilton in B county. I'm in Texas, looking at my 2003-definitely-needing-to-be-replaced-atlas. Y'all in Ohio, is that right -- the distance I think? Anyway, the Dill families in the 2 counties were not that far apart, tho living there different years. So, they could have been related. Figured I'd better add this, just in case... Pavla Chandler, TX ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE: Send a message to: OHBUTLER-L-request@rootsweb.com or OHBUTLER-D-request@rootsweb.com Put SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE (whichever you want to do) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Dear Ann, I have forwarded your email on to Gale Wallen in Illinois, as she and I together have been trying to figure out these Dills for three years. I have asked her to cc: me on whatever she sends to you, and if you don't mind, please cc: me on whatever you send to her. I will get back to you tomorrow night on what information I know and believe me, Gale and I both appreciate your getting involved in trying to solve this family mystery. My best to you, Barbara (nee Dill) Noble in Indiana Ann Trimmer <ann@trimmer.net> wrote: I've been digging in the Dills too and in 1850 and 1860 things are murky at best. The leap from 1900, where the Charles Dill we've been following is listed as having been born in July 1861, to the 1880 is really not giving us any proof this is the right Charles. That Ann Dill in 1880 in Crosby Twp, Hamilton Co, at 68, has Ann 68 Matthew 41 son(ie born abt 1839), Mary 38 dau ie b. abt 1842, Charles 20, son In the 1870 still in Crosby Twp, Hamilton Co You get Ann 58, Charles 10, son Margaret 33 dau(ie b. abt 1837). In 1860 and things are less clear. If you look for Ann, who seems to have been born about 1812, judging from the 1880 and 1870, then the only one who comes close in age , is 1860 MillCreek Twp, Hamilton Co Sarah Ann Dill 46 b abt 1814. Salinus 16 Elizabeth J 11 Mary 83 On this same page is Richard Dill 42 Ann 37, b. abt 1823 Harriet 13 Edmund W 10 Elizabeth J 9 Elvira 5 Also on this page is the family of James Dill. None of the known children, Margaret, Matthew or Mary show up here, although they could have left home. If you search for Charles (who according to the 1900 wasn't born, you run into Vincent's family and the 6 month old Charles, the twin. in St Clair Tpw, 2st Ward, Hamilton, Butler Co So I tried in 1850 for Ann and/or, the older siblings living with the Charles and Ann in the 1870 and 80 (Margaret b 1837, Matthew b. 1839 and Mary b. 1842.) Well 2 different Ann Dills show up The one is 1850 Green Twp, Hamilton Co John D Dill. 44 Ann 39 Cort? A 15 Margt 13 Mathew 11 Elias F 7 ok, both Margaret and Matthew are the right age BUT where is Mary? She should be 8! The other Ann Dills in 1850 are on the same page but 10 yrs apart. In Millcreek Twp, Hamilton Co Samuel Dill 40 Ann 36 Selanus 6 Elizabeth 2 Mary 73 and next door Richard Dill 34 Ann 26 Harriet 4 Edmund 3 Mary 1 and a whole list of laborers,living with them There are clearly the same 2 families in the 1850 and the 1860, but it sure isn't clear to me, which of these might be the Ann with a Charles, seen in 1870 and 1880. How can it be the Ann married to John D, when Mary is missing? The Charles Dill we've been following was born in July 1861 from the 1900 census. SO, assuming that is right, he can't be the twin born to Vincent in 1860. Maybe I've worn out, but I keep wondering how we know the Charles in 1900 is the one in 1880 and just which of the 1850 and 1860 Ann's match with 1870 and 1880. Ann ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== Butler County American History & Genealogy Project http://www.usgennet.org/usa/oh/county/butler Barbara
The Charles you found is from my side of the Dill's, Vincent Dill was my ggrandfather his father was James born in Del. to Vincent and Esther Dill, James had a brother Solomon who died in Miami Co. Ohio, James and his family settled in Bartholomew Co. In. Vincent Dill was married 4 times #1 Sarah Jane Willis, #2 Adaline Purvis, # 3 Matilda ??, # 4 Louisa Rebecca Stephens John J. Dill was my grandfather. Tom Dill Colorado Springs. Co. CHANDLERPRIME@wmconnect.com wrote: Hi again. Figured I was about to ignore some information myself, so thought I'd post it, too. This is regarding the Charles I found as a baby on the 1860 census w/father Vincent. I said I sort of eliminated this Charles per having found him again in 1870 w/father, alive and age 10. I was thinking this was not our Charles as our Charles was at the same time on the 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census. But it dawned on me I should not just eliminate this family, because you never know. So I went back, came across something interesting. At least, I think it's interesting. So, I'll post about it. 1860 St Clair twp, 1st Ward, N. Hamilton, Butler co, OH, enumerated 16 Jun 1860: 458 436 Vincent Dill, 24, M, Laborer, b OH Sarah, 22, F, b OH Margaret A, 4, F, b OH John J., 3, M, b OH Charles, 6/12, M, b OH William, 6/12, M, b OH (w/Charles' & Wm's names it says "twins.") Ok, this is the Charles I found as a baby, I think the only one I found for Hamilton/Butler counties in Ohio with the closest age (I think I remember right). I followed the family into 1870: 1870 Clay, Bartholomew co, Indiana, enumerated 14 Jul 1870: 149 144 Vincent Dill, 29, M, W, Farm Labour, b OH Matelda/Matilda, 18, F, W, Keeping house, b IN John, 13, M, W, at home, b IN Charles, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Wm, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Joseph, 0/12 or 6/12, M, W, b IN I'm not worried about it saying John was b in IN, nor about Vincent's age showing as it is. Some persons lied about their ages to spouses. Some did not even discuss it. Matilda might have been guessing his age. Who knows? But this was the only Dill family I found w/a Vincent at the head and the 3 boys' names right, w/ages pretty right. So, I figure first wife died & Vincent remarried this younger Matilda, then had another baby. It dawned on me that even though Charles here is 10 yrs old and our for-sure Charles was 10 same year living with Ann and Margaret Dill in a different county and state, you never know for sure. Sometimes people died & had to quickly go live with relatives, so... I checked enumeration dates. Vincent's family was enumerated 14 Jul 1870 in IN. Charles with Ann and Margaret were enumerated on 29 Jun 1870 in OH. So, unlikely it's the same Charles but I realized I had not compared the enumeration dates earlier. Anyway, I thought I'd look for Vincent/Matilda again in the 1880 census. I did not find Vincent, though. Now I did not do a real dig-dig type search but still -- it looks like Vincent might have been dead sometime after that 1870 census. I found other Vincents in the US but w/different birthyears, a bit farther removed that I like. I found some Matildas, some in OH, but rather farther-off birthyears, too (like Matilda Dill living in Hamilton co but b ca 1841 rather than 1852 when I think the one w/Vincent was born). Anyway... I did not search for Vincent's children, as that would take a while. I just thought it was interesting, my not finding Vincent w/family right off. Just figured I should post this thru since Vincent Dill started off right near where our Charles Dill w/Ann and Margaret were enumerated in 1870. Butler county and Hamilton county are right next door to each other. Hamilton in Butler county is at the bottom of the county maybe 5-10 miles from Hamilton county limits. I did not see Crosby on my Ohio atlas, but Groesbeck (that's the post office Ann, Charles and Margaret Dill were listed as served by on that 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census) is about mid-left in Hamilton county. If I'm judging right, there are only about maybe 15 miles between Groesbeck in H co and Hamilton in B county. I'm in Texas, looking at my 2003-definitely-needing-to-be-replaced-atlas. Y'all in Ohio, is that right -- the distance I think? Anyway, the Dill families in the 2 counties were not that far apart, tho living there different years. So, they could have been related. Figured I'd better add this, just in case... Pavla Chandler, TX ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE: Send a message to: OHBUTLER-L-request@rootsweb.com or OHBUTLER-D-request@rootsweb.com Put SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE (whichever you want to do) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
Hi again. Figured I was about to ignore some information myself, so thought I'd post it, too. This is regarding the Charles I found as a baby on the 1860 census w/father Vincent. I said I sort of eliminated this Charles per having found him again in 1870 w/father, alive and age 10. I was thinking this was not our Charles as our Charles was at the same time on the 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census. But it dawned on me I should not just eliminate this family, because you never know. So I went back, came across something interesting. At least, I think it's interesting. So, I'll post about it. 1860 St Clair twp, 1st Ward, N. Hamilton, Butler co, OH, enumerated 16 Jun 1860: 458 436 Vincent Dill, 24, M, Laborer, b OH Sarah, 22, F, b OH Margaret A, 4, F, b OH John J., 3, M, b OH Charles, 6/12, M, b OH William, 6/12, M, b OH (w/Charles' & Wm's names it says "twins.") Ok, this is the Charles I found as a baby, I think the only one I found for Hamilton/Butler counties in Ohio with the closest age (I think I remember right). I followed the family into 1870: 1870 Clay, Bartholomew co, Indiana, enumerated 14 Jul 1870: 149 144 Vincent Dill, 29, M, W, Farm Labour, b OH Matelda/Matilda, 18, F, W, Keeping house, b IN John, 13, M, W, at home, b IN Charles, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Wm, 10, M, W, at home, b OH Joseph, 0/12 or 6/12, M, W, b IN I'm not worried about it saying John was b in IN, nor about Vincent's age showing as it is. Some persons lied about their ages to spouses. Some did not even discuss it. Matilda might have been guessing his age. Who knows? But this was the only Dill family I found w/a Vincent at the head and the 3 boys' names right, w/ages pretty right. So, I figure first wife died & Vincent remarried this younger Matilda, then had another baby. It dawned on me that even though Charles here is 10 yrs old and our for-sure Charles was 10 same year living with Ann and Margaret Dill in a different county and state, you never know for sure. Sometimes people died & had to quickly go live with relatives, so... I checked enumeration dates. Vincent's family was enumerated 14 Jul 1870 in IN. Charles with Ann and Margaret were enumerated on 29 Jun 1870 in OH. So, unlikely it's the same Charles but I realized I had not compared the enumeration dates earlier. Anyway, I thought I'd look for Vincent/Matilda again in the 1880 census. I did not find Vincent, though. Now I did not do a real dig-dig type search but still -- it looks like Vincent might have been dead sometime after that 1870 census. I found other Vincents in the US but w/different birthyears, a bit farther removed that I like. I found some Matildas, some in OH, but rather farther-off birthyears, too (like Matilda Dill living in Hamilton co but b ca 1841 rather than 1852 when I think the one w/Vincent was born). Anyway... I did not search for Vincent's children, as that would take a while. I just thought it was interesting, my not finding Vincent w/family right off. Just figured I should post this thru since Vincent Dill started off right near where our Charles Dill w/Ann and Margaret were enumerated in 1870. Butler county and Hamilton county are right next door to each other. Hamilton in Butler county is at the bottom of the county maybe 5-10 miles from Hamilton county limits. I did not see Crosby on my Ohio atlas, but Groesbeck (that's the post office Ann, Charles and Margaret Dill were listed as served by on that 1870 Crosby, Hamilton co, OH census) is about mid-left in Hamilton county. If I'm judging right, there are only about maybe 15 miles between Groesbeck in H co and Hamilton in B county. I'm in Texas, looking at my 2003-definitely-needing-to-be-replaced-atlas. Y'all in Ohio, is that right -- the distance I think? Anyway, the Dill families in the 2 counties were not that far apart, tho living there different years. So, they could have been related. Figured I'd better add this, just in case... Pavla Chandler, TX
There were lessons to be learned on how to research, what all to pay attention to on census information and how important being thorough is. The helpers on the Dill search used good reasoning and thoroughness to find a lot of information. All of us can use their thought process in our research.
Hi Barbara, Here's some info I found on the other children of the Dill family on the SS index and Ohio Death index on Ancestry. If you already have it, just delete. - Norma Ohio Deaths, 1958-2000 Record[] about Lulu A Hutchinson Name: Lulu A Hutchinson Age at Death: 76 Date of Death: 4 Jul 1971 City of Death: Dayton County of Death: Montgomery Volume: 20550 Certificate: 054284 Date of Birth: Est. 1895 Gender: Female Marital Status: Widowed Race: White City of Residence: Dayton County of Residence: Montgomery State of Residence: Ohio Country of Residence: United States Census Tract: 0510 Hospital of Death: Long-Term Care Facilities Certifier: Physician Autopsy: No autopsy Name: Cecelia Schubert Age at Death: 76 Date of Death: 18 Sep 1972 City of Death: Clermont County County of Death: Clermont Volume: 21005 Certificate: 067117 Date of Birth: Est. 1896 Gender: Female Marital Status: Married Race: White County of Residence: Clermont State of Residence: Ohio Country of Residence: United States Hospital of Death: Long-Term Care Facilities Certifier: Physician Autopsy: No autopsy Name:Leroy Dill SSN:565-16-8684 Last Residence:91106 Pasadena, Los Angeles, California, United States of America Born:12 Apr 1900 Died:Feb 1979 State (Year) SSN issued:California (Before 1951 )
Barbara, I know it's not Charles Dill. It is his son, Carl Dill. Norma At 05:52 AM 1/16/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Thank you, Norma, but this is not my Charles E. Dill. My Charles was >raised in OH and died sometime before 1910. His wife, Jennie, is listed in >the 1910 census as "widowed." Thanks for trying, though. We will solve >this mystery someway, somehow, someday. > > Barbara in Indiana > >Norma Adams <njadams@cinci.rr.com> wrote: > Hi, >I found the obit for Carl Dill online in the Preble Co. library site. >http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/search.cfm > >Put Dill in the search box. > >It says he was born in Welsh, Louisiana and reared and educated in Aurora, >In. He died in 1970. Brother Roy and sisters survived him. > > >Norma > > >==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== >Search for Butler County family names ~ >http://surhelp-bin.rootsweb.com/surindx.pl?site=OHBUTLER2 > > > > > >Barbara > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== >To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE: Send a message to: >OHBUTLER-L-request@rootsweb.com or OHBUTLER-D-request@rootsweb.com >Put SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE (whichever you want to do)
My dear Norma, After reading all the emails from you and Ann Trimmer regarding my Dill family, I finally realized that you had found the obit for my Charles E.Dill's youngest son!! What a great find!! I had my brain so concentrated on the father, Charles E., that I never thought to do research on his children. Now I can perhaps work backwards from Carl Dill. Regarding the information you found for me on Carl's brothers and sisters from Ancestry, no, I did not have any of that information either. I am so appreciative on what you've done for me regarding my elusive Dill family. Barbara in Indiana Norma Adams <njadams@cinci.rr.com> wrote: Hi, I found the obit for Carl Dill online in the Preble Co. library site. http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/search.cfm Put Dill in the search box. It says he was born in Welsh, Louisiana and reared and educated in Aurora, In. He died in 1970. Brother Roy and sisters survived him. Norma ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== Search for Butler County family names ~ http://surhelp-bin.rootsweb.com/surindx.pl?site=OHBUTLER2 Barbara
Thank you, Norma, but this is not my Charles E. Dill. My Charles was raised in OH and died sometime before 1910. His wife, Jennie, is listed in the 1910 census as "widowed." Thanks for trying, though. We will solve this mystery someway, somehow, someday. Barbara in Indiana Norma Adams <njadams@cinci.rr.com> wrote: Hi, I found the obit for Carl Dill online in the Preble Co. library site. http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/search.cfm Put Dill in the search box. It says he was born in Welsh, Louisiana and reared and educated in Aurora, In. He died in 1970. Brother Roy and sisters survived him. Norma ==== OHBUTLER Mailing List ==== Search for Butler County family names ~ http://surhelp-bin.rootsweb.com/surindx.pl?site=OHBUTLER2 Barbara
Hi, Norma. Glad you found Carl Dill's obit. That confirms his tie to Louisiana & also ties him to brothers Roy (Leroy) and Chelsie. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough for me to say this is the same Carl as Charles/Jennie's son, brother to Leroy, Chelsey, etc. I'm glad my email to Hamilton & Butler co lists went through. Strange, cause my copies from both lists have not come thru to me yet. This is not my line but I'd gotten curious, so looked to help, too. I figure Barbara probably has also seen your message about the obit, too, since she posted to both lists. Hopefully, she'll put a bit more info through about her folks. Thanks again, Norma. Pavla Chandler, TX
Hi, I found the obit for Carl Dill online in the Preble Co. library site. http://www.pcdl.lib.oh.us/marriage/search.cfm Put Dill in the search box. It says he was born in Welsh, Louisiana and reared and educated in Aurora, In. He died in 1970. Brother Roy and sisters survived him. Norma
Hello, Barbara. I too took a look at that 1910 Hamilton, Butler co, OH census, the Dill family. Yes, Jennie was widowed but also, it lists Karl as being born in Louisiana, not in Indiana. What resource were you going by to believe he was born in Indiana? A few more questions and comments, too: a. The source you have for Karl being b IN? Death certif? Obituary? Other? b. The youngest child of Charles/Jennie was born ca 1903, Karl. So Charles died between 1900 and 1903, a smaller range to search. Okay, I wanted to see if later censuses than the 1910 would give Karl's birth place as Louisiana, too, or Indiana. So I checked 1920 censuses. I did not find any Karl/Carl Dills having been born 1903 give or take 5 years either direction, born in Indiana. However, I did find a Carl E. Dill b ca 1903 in Louisiana. This Carl was in the Marines: 1920, Eastern District, Santa Domingo, Dominican Republic: Carl E. Dill, Private, living in Ohio; city/town: Norwood, address 1907 Lexington Avenue; Male,White, 17 or 19 (think 17, tho), Single, born Louisiana, father b U.S., mother b Louisiana. The father b US, mother b LA does not concern me, because Carl lost his father right around the time of his birth and possibly his mother fairly young, too, so he might not have known. Note: Norwood is in Hamilton county, which would have made sense for your family, given that the Dills were originally there when they married and began their family. Okay, I wanted to know if this was the right Carl or not, so I wanted to look for connections to his siblings, specifically Leroy, cause Leroy's name would not have changed with marriage. I looked for Leroys in the 1920 census, too. Interestingly enough, I found one indexed as "Leson or Leroy" Dill, born in Louisiana, also. This one was in the service, too, also the Marines: 1920 UAF or UAS, New York, Seaport: Navy Yard, Puget Sound, Wash. (I know it says Navy Yard but across from Leroy's name it definitely says Marines.) Leroy (definitely Leroy) Dill, Corporal, residing: Ohio; city: Norwood; address: 1907 Lexington Ave.; Male, White, 22, Single, b Louisiana, father b Unknown U.S.; mother b Unknown, US Okay, I don't believe in coincidences too much, not with genealogy. This one listed the exact same address in the same city and same state as Carl did. So they Are related. So, I went looking for any other of the family or siblings, but this time in Norwood, Hamilton county. I mean, someone had to be living at a 1907 Lexington, right? Since the girls could/would have changed names with marriage, I went with first names only. I found a few Lulus in Norwood but none listed as living on Lexington. So, I checked Cecelias next. None matched too well, so I looked for Cecilias, just different spelling. I found several single w/wrong last names but 1 possibility (**) living on Lexington: 1920 Millcreek Twp, Precinct C/G/6?, Norwood Ward 1, Hamilton co, OH: Jake McEwen, Head, M, W, 42, M, b OH, parents b Scotland(Scotch), Ohio; Polisher and Buffer, Aluminum Co. Cecilia, wife, F, W, 23, M, b OH, parents b OH; But, get this: Ok, they list house number, then number of dwelling, then number of family, right? They're on Lexington Avenue and guess the #. It's 1907; they are family 8. Ok, so per this, I say the Karl, Leroy and Cecilia are related, obviously. Anyway, while I know many young men joined the military, I wondered why I could NOT find Jennie anywhere, definitely not under DILL but I also looked by first name only (Jennie/Jenny) for someone that might match up somehow. I did find several Jennies and all, even some in Norwood. But, the ones I found had different last names but were still single, living with fathers. One was married but living with father; that father was not a Frazee, which you said was Jennie's maiden name, nor a Dill either. So, I did a death certificate index search & found a Jennie Dill who died in 1913 in Butler county. So, if this is your Jennie, that would explain the boys being in the service also, etc. I don't know if these are yours or not but suspect strongly they are, especially with that original 1910 census giving Karl's birthplace as Louisiana. Anyway, I'll do a bit more looking for you but need to know first a definite on that birthplace for Karl. If you have some definite proof he was born in Indiana, then Charles' death probably was there. If Karl was really b in Louisiana, then Charles' death was prob there instead. Need to know that, so as to know which state to look in for Charles' death. Looking forward to hearing back from you! Like I said, I'll help look for a death record but first need to know where to look, at least the state! Looking for the death record/etc of course will tie in to finding Charles' family, parents, etc.! Happy hunting, all! Pavla Chandler, TX