Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Black irish "… found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new to them." First, my apologies to anyone whose time I waste with this discussion, but I rise to the occasion because the general related topic has also arisen on another genealogy list, and as with that list I hope I might add something useful to the discussion and to genealogy in general, possibly fanciful tales and ship wrecked Spaniards not excluded, of course. >From prewritten history of the British Isles, before even Geoffery of Monmouth, something of a historian in loose terms, from whom Shakespeare stole his theme for one of his better plays, the mythos and actual history of the peoples of the Isles is colored (if you will) with many references to black or dark skinned Britons. Very briefly, it seems there have been dark complexioned people in the Isles for quite some time. The story of Tristan and Isolda, or ol' Geoffrey's version of the tale possibly was taken from oral traditions of a dark skinned princess (Isolt the Fair, or Isolt of the Fair Hands). That is, the Isles' history is replete with references to darker complexioned peoples, long before the demise of the Spanish Armada. In tales of King Arthur legends, Iseult was wife of King Mark, with more variances on the tales. Prehistoric people migrating in reed boats from north Africa is more likely a probability than a fictional tale of operas. So - from times before written history of the Isles, the notion of "different" people have fascinated our ancestors of the area. Purity of races or groups of people is the real fiction. From blue faced Picts, who merged with the Scots, to red-haired descendants of Celts and Scandinavian invaders, we're quite a "colorful" group, we Britons and Britain's descendants. I have no idea if this adds anything to the discussions or not. But when you get stumped for finding your ancestors' ancestors, reading old, even ancient history is pretty fun sometimes. jim