I too am looking for a Norris connection. Need info on parents of Barbara Ann Norris, born 7 May 1824, who married James Mullvain in 1839 in Coshocton Co. Her parents names are William Norris and Sarah Shay. Any help appreciated. Patti

Dear John (and all), I don't do e-mail on Sunday, so hadn't read any more messages until this morning. You have no need to apologize as I know you are just trying to be helpful. And quite frankly, I would consider it a great service if you wanted to do the index look-ups as members request them so I can work on getting the A-C deed abstract book ready to go to press. I have a small window of time right now which might allow me to do it. Thanks to you for responding so nicely to this situation. I have been impressed with your kindness over the years. Lorraine I. Quillon lorraineq@juno.com P.S. to the whole list--Thank you all for being so understanding. I do hope the book is of help to as many people as possible. On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 08:09:35 -0700 "jlewis15" <jlewis15@email.msn.com> writes: > Please let me apologize to all, but I will be doing no more look-ups > in the > Will Abstract book that I recently purchased....I seemed to have > stirred up > a contraversy(Sic) that I had no intention of causing....I f you > write me > privately, I will give you the address of this book, as it is very > reasonably priced, and quite full of important infomation....Again, > I > apoligize to those that I may have caused some distress..... > > John Lewis > > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Dear John, I am not sure why your offer would create controversy. If you quote pages and pages of info, there can be a copyright question, but you were not doing that. Huron Co. OH's rootsweb list has simplified this copyright question by requesting that all people who request info limit their request to two names per request, even if they have 10 people with the same surname they are researching. Huron Co. also gives the book name and page so that good family historians can confirm the info (and we all know that books can contain their own typos) by requesting the legal documents from the county or ordering a LDS microfilm of the original documents. You could also give the requesting person the book number (A,B, or C) and page and even remind folks to confirm the info themselves. The important thing to those you help is that you are pointing them in a POSSIBLY correct direction. I say "possibly" only because I have come across transcription errors and even name errors written by the county recorders themselves: example #1: The Coshocton county recorder listed an 1823 land sale as John Douglass to James Abraham, however the document itself was James Douglass to James Abraham with no mention of a John anywhere. All books I've found so far list this sale as John Douglass because they used the county recorder's master list/index. There was an unrelated John Douglass in the county at the time and maybe John and the county recorder were friends (my guess only) and so an honest recording error was made. I found it only because I knew the sale occurred 1816-1824 and took a chance and ordered the LDS film of the original documents. example#2: a justice of the peace first recorded the 1819 marriage of Mary Douglass to John Upson and then later recorded it (correctly) as Mary Douglass to Jesse Upson. Both marriages were listed for the same date. The justice of the peace was related to Mary and lived only a few miles away, so you would have thought he would know the groom's name. Also, jp's recorded marriages AFTER they were performed, not before. Yet if a person didn't look at it for themselves, the wrong husband might be listed in a family chart. (In case anyone is wondering,Jesse had no brother or cousin named John in the area, so Mary didn't change her mind.) Douglass is one of the families I am searching. Not only are there lots of them, even in 1800 in relatively unsettled OH, they weren't all related. Some were Irish and some Scots! One in particular seems to have an aversion to ever being mentioned, but I know he was there. So any help I can get from all sources is much appreciated. Folks who have resources and time to share are "genealogy angels" and much appreciated by 99.9% of those of us online. I deeply appreciate each and every one of you! Finally, if someone recommends a book to those of us online, which you didn't but some others have, I ALWAYS order it via interlibrary loan through my local library before I purchase it. This has saved my 100's of dollars because often there is nothing on my families, other times there is a reference or two (which I photocopy along with the title page), and every once in awhile there is enough info that I order the book myself or ask the library if they would consider purchasing a copy (their budget is limited, but bigger than mine). I appreciate your offer to do lookups and hope you will reconsider withdrawing your help. Patti, in WA state

Please let me apologize to all, but I will be doing no more look-ups in the Will Abstract book that I recently purchased....I seemed to have stirred up a contraversy(Sic) that I had no intention of causing....I f you write me privately, I will give you the address of this book, as it is very reasonably priced, and quite full of important infomation....Again, I apoligize to those that I may have caused some distress..... John Lewis

Folks, there is a difference between just telling someone if their names are in the book, and just giving away in the info in a wholesale manner. I recently pd $30 for a book that had no mention of any of my ancestors...so wasted that. It would have been nice to know there was no mention of them before I bought the book. If you're going to do be doing large scale look-ups for people, please have the decency to take the traffic off the list. It's not only irritating, takes up space and waste the time of other people, you need to think about what you can be opening yourself up to legally. I never post myself as a reference for look-ups. If I do see someone post a query that I can answer out of one of my books, and I have a free moments, I just e-mail them privately with the information and a request not to pass my name along. Nancy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/

Does there happen to be any listing for A John E.Sauers in belmont county/ Thanks in advance tobergs@att.net

Can anyone in Belmont tell me if there were City Directories. If so, is there anyone who can do a lookup for me? I am looking for a George Samuel Johnston or Johnson married to Ana (McKirahan) Johnston. I am hoping that they were in Belmont onthe 1900 Census. I know that they were there in 1885 because my grandfather (their son) was born there that year. His name was John William. Other children were Mabel and Ethel? I believe that there was also a C.L. Shuttleworth married to a Sara Jane (Johnston) And a Mahala (Johnston) married to a James Crozier. Many of these Johnston's came from Taylor, CO. West Virginia. Thank you, Sally Havens

Dear List Members, I have heard from several of you and appreciate your input. Would everyone feel comfortable with generally reporting the name(s) in the index of an in-print book but not having the main body of the text copied out? I would personally be fine with that approach. In order to avoid any aggravation to the List, please send additional comments directly to me. I didn't want this to become a bothersome "issue." Just needed to explain the view from my window and learn about others'. Thanks! Lorraine lorraineq@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

On Saturday, August 5, 2000, Carolyn Graham <cragra@hotmail.com> wrote: > But isn't getting a look-up somewhat like going to the library and either > copying in long hand or photo-copying those pages you need? There is a distinction, having to do with the number of parties involved: you (#1) making copies of pages from an author's work (#2) for your personal research (#1, again) is specifically acceptable in copyright law as "fair use". You (#1) making copies of pages from an author's work (#2) for someone else (#3) is not fair use. The basic reason is that the latter, if repeated over and over, can extensively cut into an author's sales of the work. By limiting the results of copying to the copier, a "happy medium" is established. Another "happy medium" of fair use has to do with the amount/"importance" of material that is copied, as part of a larger work you are creating. Specifically, you can quote another's work within your own work -- up to a point. That point is usually defined in the courts based on how much monetary damage the author can establish. An occasional look-up for someone from a book is not going to result in a lawsuit. But I sometimes wonder about people who are copying information about a large number of families from some reference work, and publishing it as is on a mailing list, usually with little or no commentary. I think the author would have the right to sue, though it might not be worth the effort. A third aspect of this is that information itself cannot be copyrighted, only its presentation can. So you can take information from a book or CD and put it in your own words, and it won't be a copyright violation. But of course this takes more effort and is thereby self-limiting. (I always do this anyway when providing a look-up.) Finally, public records are not copyrightable. So if the book in question is merely duplicating public records in the same format, then you can copy away. You may be cutting into the author's sales that way, but it's not like they did all the work themselves. S R C A cott obert ranston nderson phssra@physics.emory.edu Administrator, {C{offield,ollosky,ranston,ummins},OHGuerns}-L@RootsWeb.com USGenWeb Coordinator, http://www.usgennet.org/usa/oh/county/guernsey/

Lorraine: I appreciate your concerns. I am disabled, limited income, and cannot get to libraries, courthouses, cemeteries . . . I chose genealogy to keep my mind and body as active as possible for as long as I can. When I first started family research, I was so gung ho and purchased many books, CD's, etc., but found nothing. Now I, too, ask before buying -- and I am most happy to search my material to help others. I am so grateful for those folks online who help -- then I know my dollars will be well-spent on my particular lines of research. And thanks to the one respondent on donating the extra books to the gen society. I wish you luck in your endeavors. Maybe someone can come up with a better idea to benefit all. Barb

Nancy, no Falconers listed! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Albritton" <nannera@home.com> To: <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [OHBELMON-L] Belmont Co Will Abstracts > Hi, again, John. Would there by any chance be any Bumgardners, Fortners > or Falconers in that Will Abstract book you've got? I'm particularly > interested in Nicholas Bumgardner and the father of Sarah Fortner (it is > said her last name was really Falconer). When you get a chance - no big > hurry. > > Thanks, John > > Nancy > Peoria, IL >

No Fortners listed---John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Albritton" <nannera@home.com> To: <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [OHBELMON-L] Belmont Co Will Abstracts > Hi, again, John. Would there by any chance be any Bumgardners, Fortners > or Falconers in that Will Abstract book you've got? I'm particularly > interested in Nicholas Bumgardner and the father of Sarah Fortner (it is > said her last name was really Falconer). When you get a chance - no big > hurry. > > Thanks, John > > Nancy > Peoria, IL >

>If it reduces chances that people will buy the book, that seems somewhat >unfair to the author and publisher.< I don't know about anyone else, but when I find a book that has quite a bit of info I can use, I buy it. For only a page or two, I don't. But isn't getting a look-up somewhat like going to the library and either copying in long hand or photo-copying those pages you need? Is there something I'm not seeing here? I know several people who have written books on their particular family line and then donated the books to various libraries, just so someone else would be able to benefit from the information in these books. Of course, if you make a living writing books you might not be donating them to libraries. :-) I'll be interested to hear what y'all think! Carolyn ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

I recently purchased the book "Will Abstracts, Belmont Co., Ohio Vol A, B, & C (1810-1827) Can do some look-ups for interested parties....... This book by Lorraine Indermill Quillon John Lewis in Modesto Ca Researching Beach, McPherson, Lewis, Garritt, Ogilbee or Ogilbay, & Ault in Belmont Co., Oh

Lorraine, I understand how you feel. Personally, I can tell you, I will buy a book if I know that there is a particular surname listed in the book. Too many times, I have bought a book thinking surely there will be someone in it I'm looking for, only to discover I wasted my money. Those books I plan on donating to our Historical Society. But books with surnames of interest to me I keep. I will not buy a book any more without knowing at least one of my surnames is listed in it somewhere. Often when a surname of interest is listed, eventually I will discover a connection if not right away then later. I don't believe however in giving away "the store." I am a graphic designer and have had to threaten suit to be paid for layouts a prospective client copied without my consent or paying for it. Amy Gilreath does the same thing in Shenandoah County as you. I wrote her personally and asked if her deed or will books contained the surnames, Powell, Joy, Brook or Way. She gave me the list and I ordered all of them. She also gave me a list of books for Frederick County which contained those names. I intend to buy those as well. I don't believe is is proper for those to ask for look-ups for anything other than surnames on material currently published and available. Now while I have you on the line. Do any of the surnames listed above appear in any of your deed and will books. As you know, I bought the most recent deed book but did not know the others were out. I will happily buy any books you have containing these surnames. Keep up the good work, Charlotte Lewin macslewin@aol.com

In a message dated 8/5/00 5:07:16 AM Central Daylight Time, OHBELMON-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > I recently purchased the book "Will Abstracts, Belmont Co., Ohio Vol A, B, & > C (1810-1827) >> Do you have any ASHTONs, CLINEs or DEVAULTs in your list? Thanks! Sharon

Dear List Members, At the risk of initiating a whirlwind of controversy, may I paint a picture for you? I am a stay-at-home mother of five children, two of whom are college age and the youngest of whom is eleven on Monday. My husband just retired, which means our income has changed significantly. I operate a home-based word processing service specializing in family history preservation--helping people prepare manuscripts for publication, computerizing genealogical records, etc. The charge for that work is $15.00 per hour, discounted from my normal rate of $18.00 per hour for non-family history material. The time required to prepare an abstract manuscript is considerable and done at a sacrifice of more lucrative work. That is why there are probably relatively few of this type of publication. However, my motivation to provide easier access to these records along with a secondary hope of making some income to supplement our family's support encourages me to make that commitment. At this point, two books have been published and a third is nearing completion. I don't know how many of you have had manuscripts published, but the royalties are only slightly better than what we pay in tithing to our church. Then they have to be reported as income and Uncle Sam takes his cut. So the final result is fairly minimal. When well-meaning individuals buy a copy of the book and offer to do free look-ups and then make the material available at no charge, that is definitely a disincentive for authors to make the sacrifices involved in providing the resources. If it ultimately encourages sales of the book (and I don't know whether it does or not), that would be fine. If it reduces chances that people will buy the book, that seems somewhat unfair to the author and publisher. I am open to instruction in this matter, so your observations would be welcomed. Most sincerely, Lorraine I. Quillon lorraineq@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Lorraine raises an important point. Although I agree in theory, I believe that she under-estimates the "free advertising" value of these offers for look-ups. Very, very few people can afford to purchase a reference-type book without some sort of an idea what is in the book. If I needed to buy a cook-book on Mexican Food, I certainly wouldn't just order a cookbook without prior knowledge of its contents. The same applies to genealogical-type reference books. Recently I offered to do limited "look-ups" from 2 VA deed books that I purchased. I included the source information and gave the on-line URL of the book-seller's web-site. I received 22 requests for look-ups, 18 of which produced results for the requestor. Out of the 18, I got 4 replies thanking me for doing the look-up and adding that they had ordered at least one of the books. It is very, very possible that others checked out the web-site and perhaps ordered books, or will in the future. I'm not in advertising, and know little on the subject, but it seems like this is a wonderful source of "free advertising" that can produce sales. A list subscriber who offers look-ups in their book(s) is doing a very time-consuming favor for others; and I doubt very much that it is the cause of poor or reduced sales to the book-seller. Posting the entire book, or otherwise infringing on the copyright is a totally different matter. Sharyl

I've never contacted the Moose, but the Mason's have been a wealth of information for me. Unable to find the death date of my great grandfather, but knowing his son and grandson to have been Masons, I contacted the organization at the state level, by calling the local chapter and getting the phone #. I called, and,he had indeed been a member. The supplied his death date, which enabled me to get his death certificate, and as they say, "the rest is history"...so,call your local Moose and see what they have to say. Sandra -----Original Message----- From: Martha Johnson <ab775@seorf.Ohiou.Edu> To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Friday, August 04, 2000 9:47 PM Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Loyal Order of Moose No. 12 >I just noticed underneath an obit that I have photocopied for a relative >is a notice to members of Loyal Order of Moose No. 12 (in Bellaire, OH) to >"meet at the hall to attned the funeral of ________." (my relative) > >Have any of you ever requested anything form the organization that >might be of genealogical importance? > >If so, how should I go about it? > >Martha > >

In a message dated 8/5/00 5:07:16 AM Central Daylight Time, OHBELMON-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > I recently purchased the book "Will Abstracts, Belmont Co., Ohio Vol A, B, & > C (1810-1827) Thanks for the offer John, Is there anything for William Barrett or James Lindsey or Elisha Higgens Lucas in your book. Sondra