OOPS!!!! Boy, is my face red. Sorry, I didn't proof it before I sent it out. John Biggins was born 1779 "in VA", so Delilah was born around 1800. Of course at that time, "VA" was just across the river! I'm still trying to put together who John & Thomas' parents were. Thanks again! Pam On Thu, 09 November 2000, "Sandra Ferguson" wrote: > > Pam, You need to include dates when posting family data.....we have no way > of knowing where to look for these people without some sort of time frame. > Approximate dates will do, but dates of some sort should always be included > in a query. I have lots of Ohio resources, but don't know if they will be > of any help, without knowing when your family was in Belmont. > -----Original Message----- > From: Pam Mike <pam_mike@looksmart.com> > To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: Thursday, November 09, 2000 3:49 PM > Subject: [OHBELMON-L] New to list > > > >Hello list! > >My name is Pamela Biggins Mike. I'm trying to find info on the surname > BIGGINS. The earliest Belmont County Biggins I have is Delilah Biggins who > married a Morris. Delilah's parents were John Biggins and Sarah "Sallie" > Orrison. John had a brother named Thomas. Does anyone know anything about > this family? Thanks! > > > >Pam in VA > > > > > >Can't find what you're looking for? > > > >The LookSmart Live! community will help you find it and reward you for > helping others. http://live.looksmart.com > > > > Can't find what you're looking for? The LookSmart Live! community will help you find it and reward you for helping others. http://live.looksmart.com

Hello list! My name is Pamela Biggins Mike. I'm trying to find info on the surname BIGGINS. The earliest Belmont County Biggins I have is Delilah Biggins who married a Morris. Delilah's parents were John Biggins and Sarah "Sallie" Orrison. John had a brother named Thomas. Does anyone know anything about this family? Thanks! Pam in VA Can't find what you're looking for? The LookSmart Live! community will help you find it and reward you for helping others. http://live.looksmart.com

Thought I'd share this: > THE FOLLOWING CUMBERLAND CO.PA CHURCH RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE FOR SEARCH FREE > UNTIL 11/16/2000: > THE SITE ADDRESS IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS LIST. HAVE FUN! > > CUMBERLAND COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA CHURCH RECORDS > > Cumberland County was formed in 1750 from Lancaster County. This database > includes the following church records for the area: > > --- Pastoral Records of John C. Bucher, 1763-69 > --- Marriage Bonds from the J. Zeamer Collection, 1761-63, 1784 > --- Carlisle Gazette and the Western Repository of Knowledge, Marriages and > Deaths, 1786-1800 > --- Big Spring Presbyterian Church, Newville, 1737-1898 > --- Bobenmayer (St. Peter's) Church, Upper Frankford, 1796-1863 > --- First Evangelical Lutheran Church, Carlisle, 1788-1923 > --- Marriage Licenses Issued by John Agnew, Esq., Carlisle, 1771-89 > --- Marriages and Baptisms from Rev. Cuthbertson's Register, 1751-91 > --- Meeting-House Springs, 1742-48 > --- Middle Spring Presbyterian Church Marriages, 1786-94 > --- Middle Spring Presbyterian Church Session Book, 1742-48 > --- Poplar (St. John's) Evangelical Lutheran Church, Shiremanstown, 1787-1800 > --- German Reformed Church, Shippenstown, 1770-1800 > --- St. James Episcopal Church, 1755 > --- St. Stephen's (Longsdorf's) Evangelical Lutheran Church, New Kingston, > 1778-1801 > --- First Presbyterian Church Marriages, Carlisle, 1785-1800 > --- Trindle Spring Lutheran Church, 1792-1800 > --- Ziegler's Church, Mifflin Township, 1797-1800 > > Source Information: Lineages, Inc., comp. "Cumberland County, Pennsylvania > Church Records." [database online] Provo, UT: Ancestry.com, 2000. Original > data: > Transcribed from LDS Family History Library copies of church records for this > locality. For more information, see the Family History Library Catalog (FHLC) > for FHL 974.843 K2w. > > To search this database, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/search/rectype/inddbs/4921.htm > ____________________________________________________________________

Hello, All, I'm trying to find out the background of Grant Morton, Sr., born 1865 in Ohio. He married Carrie Rufer and they had three sons - Frank, David, Grant Jr., and one daughter, Hazel. They lived in Bellaire during the 1910 census and up until about 1940 that I know of. Would appreciate any information. Thanks, Patricia Morton Radtke prxword@aol.com

Mary Lappen is listed in Wheeling Township, on the 1810 Tax list for Belmont County.....I don't imagine she would be listed as such, if her husband had been alive, so I would think that Wm.. was dead by 1810. -----Original Message----- From: Jlktrees@aol.com <Jlktrees@aol.com> To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Saturday, November 04, 2000 5:02 PM Subject: [OHBELMON-L] WOODS/LAPPIN marriage >In 1815 Mary Lappin married William Woods in Belmont Co. OH. I believe this >is a second marriage for her as a William Lappit/Lappin married Mary Edwards >in 1803 and then no further sign of him. Does anyone know anything about >this family? Would appreciate some health Thanks, Jerilyn > >Jerilyn Lappin Koskan >Cook Co., Illinois >jlktrees@aol.com > > > > > >FTM user > >Searching BREWER, COOK, DAVIDSON, DUSATKO, DYE, FISHER, GRAY, GREENE, HANNA, >KIRK, KOSKAN, LAPPIN, LEAK/LEEK, MITCHELL, MONROE, MONTGOMERY, OATES, PORTER, >PUFFENBARGER, SLUSHER, SMITH, STARBUCKS, STARKEY, TODD, WADSWORTH, WILSON, >and many more. > >

In 1815 Mary Lappin married William Woods in Belmont Co. OH. I believe this is a second marriage for her as a William Lappit/Lappin married Mary Edwards in 1803 and then no further sign of him. Does anyone know anything about this family? Would appreciate some health Thanks, Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois jlktrees@aol.com FTM user Searching BREWER, COOK, DAVIDSON, DUSATKO, DYE, FISHER, GRAY, GREENE, HANNA, KIRK, KOSKAN, LAPPIN, LEAK/LEEK, MITCHELL, MONROE, MONTGOMERY, OATES, PORTER, PUFFENBARGER, SLUSHER, SMITH, STARBUCKS, STARKEY, TODD, WADSWORTH, WILSON, and many more.

Hi I have been trying to nail down various Leek families in eastern Ohio for several years and what a chore it is. Is there anyone out there who can tell me who the following Leek people were listed in these marriages in Belmont Co. OH? Elizabeth Leek Israel Given October 25, 1832 Samuel Leeke Katherine Nuzum March 23, 1838 Rebecca Leeke Otho French, Jr. October 18, 1838 Thomas Leeke Elizabeth Johnston July 2, 1846 Ann Maria Leeke Barnet W. Coen August 29, 1847 James F. Leek Eliza Coulter October 19, 1847 Are these siblings? Are they cousins? Who are their parents? Where did they move to from Belmont Co. OH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jerilyn Jerilyn Lappin Koskan Cook Co., Illinois jlktrees@aol.com FTM user Searching BREWER, COOK, DAVIDSON, DUSATKO, DYE, FISHER, GRAY, GREENE, HANNA, KIRK, KOSKAN, LAPPIN, LEAK/LEEK, MITCHELL, MONROE, MONTGOMERY, OATES, PORTER, PUFFENBARGER, SLUSHER, SMITH, STARBUCKS, STARKEY, TODD, WADSWORTH, WILSON, and many more.

Hi Listers, I hope someone on the list that is familiar with the Bellaire landmarks, and history, can help with this question. On a recent research trip we were exploring Bellaire. On N. Guernsey St. we saw a quite thick looking smoke stack, near/on property that looked like an factory. I don't remember now if it looked occupied. On top was a sign that said something to the effect of "Bellaire the American Town." While viewing some of the Wheeling newspapers on micro, I saw a notation (paper dated 8/11/1894) about the big stack at Bellaire Nail Works completed and was 127 feet high, and the foundation added another 12-15ft more to the heighth. Could this be the same stack? Also, can anybody tell me what would have been Barnards first addition (1899) to the city of Bellaire? Or Barnards 3rd addition to Bellaire, abt 1902? Thanks for any imput. Nancy Reynolds in TN Researching: WOOD, CURTIS, McDONALD, RYLAND, McGUIRE, RIGGS

Sandra, Thanks for the information. It's very interesting. Although we were light headed as children, when we got older our hair turned to dark brown. All of us, my Dad, his sisters, etc. We have light complexions with dark hair. There was a special on the history channel about the Scots-Irish that I taped and they were called dark Irish on there. Julia >From: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@intelos.net> >Reply-To: "Sandra Ferguson" <ferg@intelos.net> >To: "Julia Swanson" <flickymom@hotmail.com>, <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> >Subject: Scots- Irish >Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 10:22:57 -0500 > >This is just another of the theories behind the term, black Irish. In >reality, the Scots that emigrated to Ireland, were just that....Scots.... >and as such, in all probability were fair people, as the Scots usually were >, because of their genetic makeup. To understand how the Scots got to >Ireland one must understand a bit of British history. > The English always had "trouble" with the indigenous Irish peoples, >and >King James I, decided that the best way to quell rebellion was to place >protestant settlers in certain areas of Catholic Ireland. So, in about >1600 >he sent thousands of Scottish Presbyterian folks into the Antrim area of >Ireland, primarily in the area of Co. Down , Londonderry along with Antrim. > These areas prospered and the Irish were driven almost completely from >the areas, lands were cleared and settled. Then, under the rule of James >II >and the Stuarts, times changed, and it became the Presbyterians who were >being persecuted in Scotland, and many joined their fellow Presbyterians >in Ireland. There was, however, no intermarriage with the Catholic Irish, >and these Scots, who became known as Scots-Irish , were primarily Saxon >in >bloodline, while the Irish were Celts. Their language, education, history, >habits, religion, manner of life, and general appearance were very >distinctive, and different from the Irish. It is said that a visitor could >pick out the Scots communities with "his eyes". > In the mid 1700s, these Scots-Irish Presbyterians began emigrating to >the colonies in answer to the increasing taxes and regulations placed upon >them by the British government, and by 1729, 6000 >had come to PA, and before the middle of the 18th century it is estimated >that 12000 arrived annually for several years. Certain areas of Ireland >were >almost completely depopulated by their exodus. > Thus, you can see that these Scots-Irish would have had no reason to >have been called "black".....but it's interesting to see what many theories >there are for the term. > Sandra > -----Original Message----- >From: Julia Swanson <flickymom@hotmail.com> >To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> >Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 9:54 AM >Subject: Re: [OHBELMON-L] Re: Our Irish Ancestors > > > >My uncle always said we were black Irish which to him meant Scots-Irish. > >Julia > > > > > >>From: James Wiley <jrwiley@raex.com> > >>To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com > >>Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Re: Our Irish Ancestors > >>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:20:33 -0500 > >> > >> Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Black irish > >> > >>"… found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term > >>Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and > >>has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a > >>U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new > >>to them." > >> > >> > >>First, my apologies to anyone whose time I waste with this > >>discussion, but I rise to the occasion because the general > >>related topic has also arisen on another genealogy list, and as > >>with that list I hope I might add something useful to the > >>discussion and to genealogy in general, possibly fanciful tales > >>and ship wrecked Spaniards not excluded, of course. > >> > >> >From prewritten history of the British Isles, before even > >>Geoffery of Monmouth, something of a historian in loose terms, > >>from whom Shakespeare stole his theme for one of his better > >>plays, the mythos and actual history of the peoples of the Isles > >>is colored (if you will) with many references to black or dark > >>skinned Britons. > >> > >>Very briefly, it seems there have been dark complexioned people > >>in the Isles for quite some time. The story of Tristan and > >>Isolda, or ol' Geoffrey's version of the tale possibly was taken > >>from oral traditions of a dark skinned princess (Isolt the Fair, > >>or Isolt of the Fair Hands). That is, the Isles' history is > >>replete with references to darker complexioned peoples, long > >>before the demise of the Spanish Armada. In tales of King Arthur > >>legends, Iseult was wife of King Mark, with more variances on the > >>tales. Prehistoric people migrating in reed boats from north > >>Africa is more likely a probability than a fictional tale of > >>operas. > >> > >>So - from times before written history of the Isles, the notion > >>of "different" people have fascinated our ancestors of the area. > >>Purity of races or groups of people is the real fiction. From > >>blue faced Picts, who merged with the Scots, to red-haired > >>descendants of Celts and Scandinavian invaders, we're quite a > >>"colorful" group, we Britons and Britain's descendants. > >> > >>I have no idea if this adds anything to the discussions or not. > >>But when you get stumped for finding your ancestors' ancestors, > >>reading old, even ancient history is pretty fun sometimes. > >> > >>jim > >> > > > >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

Hi Sandra, I would also be interested in: > 9-20-1877 > Mr. A. Porterfield If you would like you may send it to this address (CATCH@megsinet.net). Thanks a bunch!! Tami A. (Brewer) Church researching: BREWER, BIRCH, BRADY, BRIGGS, WATSON, GROHOSKI, PULASKI, PORTERFIELD, ECKLER, and many others!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Nancy L Boman <nboman825@juno.com> To: <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [OHBELMON-L] Abstracts from the Belmont Chronicle > Hi Sandra, As per your offer would you let me know (at > your convenience) what it says about the following? > They may tie in with my family. Thanks a million. > Please send to my other address: > NBGEN @ juno.com > > 9-20-1877 > Mr. A. Porterfield > > Sept 27, 1877 > Mrs Hannah Watson > > Oct. 4, 1877 > John Watson > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >

Hi -- I was hoping someone would be able to help me find copies of Belmont County declaration(s) of intent and/or naturalization documents from the 1840's. I have the listing from the Minutes of the Court of Common Pleas which shows where one of the naturalization records can be found, however county hall informs me that they don't have it. I'm at one of those "rock wall" points and was hoping these documents could boost me over. I'm happy to cover any expenses, of course. Please reply by e-mail address below (don't pester the list!) if you can help (please!!!) -- Tim Capstack laurantim@earthlink.net

Hi Sandra, As per your offer would you let me know (at your convenience) what it says about the following? They may tie in with my family. Thanks a million. Please send to my other address: NBGEN @ juno.com 9-20-1877 Mr. A. Porterfield Sept 27, 1877 Mrs Hannah Watson Oct. 4, 1877 John Watson ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

This is just another of the theories behind the term, black Irish. In reality, the Scots that emigrated to Ireland, were just that....Scots.... and as such, in all probability were fair people, as the Scots usually were , because of their genetic makeup. To understand how the Scots got to Ireland one must understand a bit of British history. The English always had "trouble" with the indigenous Irish peoples, and King James I, decided that the best way to quell rebellion was to place protestant settlers in certain areas of Catholic Ireland. So, in about 1600 he sent thousands of Scottish Presbyterian folks into the Antrim area of Ireland, primarily in the area of Co. Down , Londonderry along with Antrim. These areas prospered and the Irish were driven almost completely from the areas, lands were cleared and settled. Then, under the rule of James II and the Stuarts, times changed, and it became the Presbyterians who were being persecuted in Scotland, and many joined their fellow Presbyterians in Ireland. There was, however, no intermarriage with the Catholic Irish, and these Scots, who became known as Scots-Irish , were primarily Saxon in bloodline, while the Irish were Celts. Their language, education, history, habits, religion, manner of life, and general appearance were very distinctive, and different from the Irish. It is said that a visitor could pick out the Scots communities with "his eyes". In the mid 1700s, these Scots-Irish Presbyterians began emigrating to the colonies in answer to the increasing taxes and regulations placed upon them by the British government, and by 1729, 6000 had come to PA, and before the middle of the 18th century it is estimated that 12000 arrived annually for several years. Certain areas of Ireland were almost completely depopulated by their exodus. Thus, you can see that these Scots-Irish would have had no reason to have been called "black".....but it's interesting to see what many theories there are for the term. Sandra -----Original Message----- From: Julia Swanson <flickymom@hotmail.com> To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [OHBELMON-L] Re: Our Irish Ancestors >My uncle always said we were black Irish which to him meant Scots-Irish. >Julia > > >>From: James Wiley <jrwiley@raex.com> >>To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com >>Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Re: Our Irish Ancestors >>Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:20:33 -0500 >> >> Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Black irish >> >>"… found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term >>Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and >>has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a >>U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new >>to them." >> >> >>First, my apologies to anyone whose time I waste with this >>discussion, but I rise to the occasion because the general >>related topic has also arisen on another genealogy list, and as >>with that list I hope I might add something useful to the >>discussion and to genealogy in general, possibly fanciful tales >>and ship wrecked Spaniards not excluded, of course. >> >> >From prewritten history of the British Isles, before even >>Geoffery of Monmouth, something of a historian in loose terms, >>from whom Shakespeare stole his theme for one of his better >>plays, the mythos and actual history of the peoples of the Isles >>is colored (if you will) with many references to black or dark >>skinned Britons. >> >>Very briefly, it seems there have been dark complexioned people >>in the Isles for quite some time. The story of Tristan and >>Isolda, or ol' Geoffrey's version of the tale possibly was taken >>from oral traditions of a dark skinned princess (Isolt the Fair, >>or Isolt of the Fair Hands). That is, the Isles' history is >>replete with references to darker complexioned peoples, long >>before the demise of the Spanish Armada. In tales of King Arthur >>legends, Iseult was wife of King Mark, with more variances on the >>tales. Prehistoric people migrating in reed boats from north >>Africa is more likely a probability than a fictional tale of >>operas. >> >>So - from times before written history of the Isles, the notion >>of "different" people have fascinated our ancestors of the area. >>Purity of races or groups of people is the real fiction. From >>blue faced Picts, who merged with the Scots, to red-haired >>descendants of Celts and Scandinavian invaders, we're quite a >>"colorful" group, we Britons and Britain's descendants. >> >>I have no idea if this adds anything to the discussions or not. >>But when you get stumped for finding your ancestors' ancestors, >>reading old, even ancient history is pretty fun sometimes. >> >>jim >> > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > >

My uncle always said we were black Irish which to him meant Scots-Irish. Julia >From: James Wiley <jrwiley@raex.com> >To: OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Re: Our Irish Ancestors >Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:20:33 -0500 > > Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Black irish > >"… found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term >Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and >has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a >U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new >to them." > > >First, my apologies to anyone whose time I waste with this >discussion, but I rise to the occasion because the general >related topic has also arisen on another genealogy list, and as >with that list I hope I might add something useful to the >discussion and to genealogy in general, possibly fanciful tales >and ship wrecked Spaniards not excluded, of course. > > >From prewritten history of the British Isles, before even >Geoffery of Monmouth, something of a historian in loose terms, >from whom Shakespeare stole his theme for one of his better >plays, the mythos and actual history of the peoples of the Isles >is colored (if you will) with many references to black or dark >skinned Britons. > >Very briefly, it seems there have been dark complexioned people >in the Isles for quite some time. The story of Tristan and >Isolda, or ol' Geoffrey's version of the tale possibly was taken >from oral traditions of a dark skinned princess (Isolt the Fair, >or Isolt of the Fair Hands). That is, the Isles' history is >replete with references to darker complexioned peoples, long >before the demise of the Spanish Armada. In tales of King Arthur >legends, Iseult was wife of King Mark, with more variances on the >tales. Prehistoric people migrating in reed boats from north >Africa is more likely a probability than a fictional tale of >operas. > >So - from times before written history of the Isles, the notion >of "different" people have fascinated our ancestors of the area. >Purity of races or groups of people is the real fiction. From >blue faced Picts, who merged with the Scots, to red-haired >descendants of Celts and Scandinavian invaders, we're quite a >"colorful" group, we Britons and Britain's descendants. > >I have no idea if this adds anything to the discussions or not. >But when you get stumped for finding your ancestors' ancestors, >reading old, even ancient history is pretty fun sometimes. > >jim > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.

These names appear on the one page of this book of abstracts. If interested in any of them, let me know and I'll tell you what it says about them. 9-20-1877 George Deitz and James Craig Samuel Heaton Julius Koehler Isaac Taggart Dr. J.K Habensock Ms. Emma Turk John Reeve Ms Bell Irwin Mr. A. Porterfield Rev. J. K. Moore Mr. W.H. Tannehill Ms. Jessie thompson Dr. John D. Hobenseck Ms Emma Turk Sept 27, 1877 Mr. David Grimes Mr. Samuel Kirk Catharine J. Amos Mr. W. T Caldwell Mary Price James ;Price Rev. R. G. Campbell D. A Hollingsworth Mrs Hannah Watson Sally Heaton Oct. 4, 1877 Mrs. Ella Bulett John Watson E. cole James Foley

FYI from OHHURON-L@rootsweb.com ----- Original Message ----- > Forwarded from another list: > > You only thought you were confused before. If a reference is made to a > person having been born in Virginia as early as 1728 or as late as 1863, it > could mean that he or she was born in any part of: > > Illinois from 1781 to Statehood in 1818; > Indiana from 1781 to Statehood in 1816; > Kentucky from 1775 to Statehood in 1792; > Maryland from 1775 to Statehood in 1792; > North Carolina from 1728 to 1799; > Ohio from 1778 to Statehood in 1803; > Pennsylvania from 1752 to 1786; > Tennessee from 1760 to 1803; > or all of West Virginia from 1769 to 1863. > > Mary McG > in Tennessee > > ______________________________

Subject: [OHBELMON-L] Black irish "… found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new to them." First, my apologies to anyone whose time I waste with this discussion, but I rise to the occasion because the general related topic has also arisen on another genealogy list, and as with that list I hope I might add something useful to the discussion and to genealogy in general, possibly fanciful tales and ship wrecked Spaniards not excluded, of course. >From prewritten history of the British Isles, before even Geoffery of Monmouth, something of a historian in loose terms, from whom Shakespeare stole his theme for one of his better plays, the mythos and actual history of the peoples of the Isles is colored (if you will) with many references to black or dark skinned Britons. Very briefly, it seems there have been dark complexioned people in the Isles for quite some time. The story of Tristan and Isolda, or ol' Geoffrey's version of the tale possibly was taken from oral traditions of a dark skinned princess (Isolt the Fair, or Isolt of the Fair Hands). That is, the Isles' history is replete with references to darker complexioned peoples, long before the demise of the Spanish Armada. In tales of King Arthur legends, Iseult was wife of King Mark, with more variances on the tales. Prehistoric people migrating in reed boats from north Africa is more likely a probability than a fictional tale of operas. So - from times before written history of the Isles, the notion of "different" people have fascinated our ancestors of the area. Purity of races or groups of people is the real fiction. From blue faced Picts, who merged with the Scots, to red-haired descendants of Celts and Scandinavian invaders, we're quite a "colorful" group, we Britons and Britain's descendants. I have no idea if this adds anything to the discussions or not. But when you get stumped for finding your ancestors' ancestors, reading old, even ancient history is pretty fun sometimes. jim

found this on the internet.....seems to indicate that the term Black Irsih means quite different things to different people, and has no actual definition; The Black Irish seem to be mainly a U.S. thing. The Irish natives I've heard from say the term is new to them. People talk about the Black Irish as though they constituted a mythical race on a par with the lost tribes of Israel. But in fact all they mean (usually) is that somebody named McNulty has dark, and in the classic case black, hair. Even if we make the dubious assumption that dark hair genes were completely absent in the original Gaels, it seems likely that the incidence of dark-haired folk in a nation whose population only slightly exceeds that of the city of Los Angeles could be accounted for strictly by routine mixing due to immigration, trade contact, and so on. But you can see how exciting an explanation that makes. So people have come up with all kinds of fanciful tales instead. The wildest notion is that black hair is evidence of Spaniards marooned in Ireland following the wreck of the Armada. As we've had occasion to discuss in the past, the number of shipwrecked Spanish sailors who remained in Ireland for any length of time was trivial. I have also heard it said the black Irish were the first settlers of Ireland--maybe the Phoenicians. The red Irish, meanwhile, were descendants of the Normans, and the blond Irish are descended from the Vikings. One of many drawbacks to this theory is that it seems to leave the Gaels completely out of the picture. A more plausible but still essentially unprovable take on this idea is that black hair is a vestige of an indigenous population of short dark-haired types overrun by the fair-haired Gaels. Supposedly there are more black Irish in the western part of the country, which fewer Gaelic invaders reached. Other theories indicate a mix with the black race, and others think that an infusion of American Indian blood is the basis of the term. There is archaeological and, I'm told, linguistic evidence of pre-Gaelic settlement. But how it was concluded that they were short and black-haired I do not know. Seems like a silly thing to make a fuss over in any case. - -

Seeking information on the Lewis family Belmont Co. Carlton Lewis b. abt 1818 probably in Belmont Co. m. Mariah Green 1845 Belmont Co. I am looking for parents of both Carlton Lewis and Mariah Green. Also, was wondering if any one has heard of "Black Irish" people? Do you know what this means? Judy

1850 Census: Smith Twp Belmont County Page 254 Carrelton Lewis 32 yrd Carpenter B. Ohio Mariah - wife - 30 - b. Ohio Lydia 4yrs Female b. Ohio Thomas 2 yrs Male b. Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Weaver, Judy" <JWeaver@DoanePetCare.com> To: <OHBELMON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:10 AM Subject: [OHBELMON-L] LEWIS and GREEN Family 1818 - 1850 > Seeking information on the Lewis family Belmont Co. > > Carlton Lewis b. abt 1818 probably in Belmont Co. m. Mariah Green 1845 > Belmont Co. > > I am looking for parents of both Carlton Lewis and Mariah Green. > > Also, was wondering if any one has heard of "Black Irish" people? Do you > know what this means? > > Judy >