There is a stand at the West side market that sells Irish food. Not sure if they have what you're looking for. I don't remember the name, but they are near the back and on the left (if you are at the W. 25th street entrance). By the way, there is a pub called "The Old Angle" I noticed near the market on W. 25th. Does anyone know if there are old photos of "The Angle" there? I could see from the street that it had old photo's on the wall. I need to make a point of checking it out. Lilly ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

<A HREF="mailto:Maryln 61">Maryln</A>, My wife,Carole said ,she was it at DAVE'S (22600 Shore Center Dr. Euclid) (216) 289-0506 EYE, would call the MAIN STORE: 3301 Payne Ave (216) 361-5130 There are six (6) store in the Cleveland area. 2700 Carroll Ave (OHIO CITY) 274-2940 3565 Ridge Rd. (at Dennison) 961-2000 7422 Harvard Ave. 441-0034 15900 Lakeshore Blvd 486-6458 Paul D-Euclid, O hi O

It's an urban legend that only Irish bacon in rasher form may be used to" chew the fat," dar'lun. Me mither did it frequently with Rath and Swift brands. :) J.R.B. Cleveland

This is related but not really genealogy! Does anyone know of a shop in the greater Cleveland area or a stand at the Westside Market which has rashers of Irish bacon? I have purchased rashers on line but figure with shipping fees, etc., it would be cheaper if I could purchase them locally. Thanks Mary Ellen Chambers Lakewood Ohio

Thanks, Paul. I'll go and look around. My WALSH g-g-grandparents are buried in what is the MORAN plot -- the deed is in Dad's strongbox in Florida. These names are new to me -- Matheis and Doran -- and of interest. Thanks. Warm regards, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: <DThreestrings@aol.com> To: <OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Death Notice costs at the Plain Dealer are HIGH In a message dated 4/7/03 9:55:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Karen@HiattFamily.com writes: EYE, Have WALSH,Matheis(Mathies) and Doran at St.John's & Joseph's Holy Trinty and St. Edward's Churches-Woodland Ave. Fr.Joseph Trapp,Fr.Brennan,& Fr.W.S.Krese Walsh-2526 & 2646 E 73rd Matheis-2539 East 73r Doran's East 68,67, 62& Woodland Ave The, MATHEIS, are buried dead center from the gate(that is alwaysLOCKED?) The monument is about 3-4 feet tall and looks like the "WASHINGTON" Monument. The shape is called an "OBELISK" There is an very old saying,"THE APPLE, DOES NOT FALL FAR FROM THE TREE" Paul-Euclid,O

Sorry, I do not see any connection here. Phil

Also, National Archives in Dublin will send birth, marriage and death certificates. They are on line and state cost and address for copies. Your ancestor was born after 1864 so he should have a Civil Record on file. Then again, there were many records burned during the 1916 Uprising/Irish Civil War when Four Courts were bombed. Worth a try. Wexford County Council is on the Wexford site and you could ask them for the address of the Records in the County. It probably is in Wexford Town but not sure. Each county seat has such a place. Mary Ellen Chambers

My Callaghan relatives in Cleveland seem to have variable spellings of their last name. Great great grandparents: Jeremiah O. Callaghan married Anne Collins on 28 Apr 1862 my A. Rappe probably at St. John's Cathedral. Great grandparents: Their daughter Mary Callahan (sp) married Michael Francis Keyes 18 Jun 1890 at St. Columbkill Church. etc., etc. Connections????? Lynne

Still looking for my great grandfather Michael Parle born 29 Nov 1865 in County Wexford as stated on his Petition for Citizenship in 1894 in Cleveland, Ohio. Parents unknown. Cleveland Parles don't seem to have a Michael amongst them....Help appreciated. Thanks. Lynne

Have you tried the Wexford Genealogy Centre at http://homepage.eircom.net/~yolawexford/genealogy.htm? With name and date of birth you may get a positive response which may cost a few dollars but may open a very large door. Regards, Dick Conoboy -----Original Message----- From: Lmsvo@aol.com [mailto:Lmsvo@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 9:00 AM To: OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: O'Neill Still looking for my great grandfather Michael Parle born 29 Nov 1865 in County Wexford as stated on his Petition for Citizenship in 1894 in Cleveland, Ohio. Parents unknown. Cleveland Parles don't seem to have a Michael amongst them....Help appreciated. Thanks. Lynne

In a message dated 4/7/03 9:55:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Karen@HiattFamily.com writes: EYE, Have WALSH,Matheis(Mathies) and Doran at St.John's & Joseph's Holy Trinty and St. Edward's Churches-Woodland Ave. Fr.Joseph Trapp,Fr.Brennan,& Fr.W.S.Krese Walsh-2526 & 2646 E 73rd Matheis-2539 East 73r Doran's East 68,67, 62& Woodland Ave The, MATHEIS, are buried dead center from the gate(that is alwaysLOCKED?) The monument is about 3-4 feet tall and looks like the "WASHINGTON" Monument. The shape is called an "OBELISK" There is an very old saying,"THE APPLE, DOES NOT FALL FAR FROM THE TREE" Paul-Euclid,O

In a message dated 4/6/03 12:49:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, paetlb@juno.com writes: > I honestly believe that all the Devers in Cleveland are in some way > related. Paet, Andrew Dever's family of Glenhest, Co. Mayo, Ireland (just NE of town of Newport) has Cleveland connections also. One son, Charles, came to Cleveland. Others were Ronald, Kathleen & Theresa. The Dever family were weavers. Their story is in the book "Glorious Glenhest, Memories of a Community", published in August 2000. Carolyn Corcoran

Karen: You might start by hoping the children born in Ohio were born in Cuyahoga County. You could ask the Archives to search for their birth records if the dates are known or even closely estimated. I have found "maiden" names for mothers on some of these records. Dennis Murphy Murphy's Public House http://www.alltel.net/~dmurphy595/index.html Dedicated to the Irish and German families of Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Hiatt" <Karen@HiattFamily.com> To: <OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice Hello, List -- I found the tombstone for my great-great grandparents, Patrick and Mary Walsh at St. John's Cemetery on Woodland in Cleveland. Her dates: 1832 to 1905. Patrick Walsh: 1826 to 1897 (but for him, we have a death notice: he lived at 139 Detroit Street; and died 6 July 1897). The Cuyahoga County Archives don't have a death certificate (Dad's list on the cemetery deed shows burial in April, 1905), but she's not in the Cleveland Public Library on-line database, under any of 4 spellings of WALSH. We'd surely like to know her maiden name! All four of their daughters married at St. Malachi's -- and Cousin Adrienne in Denmark got those dates from the Catholic Diocese, and some of the witnesses and priest's names. NOTHING about the parents, nothing about where they came from. We found out that the two older daughters were born in New York. Somewhere. The two younger daughters in "Ohio" -- somewhere -- thanks to the Census. So. Does anyone have a suggestion about where we can find some filmed newspaper archives for the Cleveland area for 1905? Or any OTHER suggestions? I'm just getting back to family research (my husband died in October) -- and I think I need a jump-start! Besides, Adrienne is writing to me and jiggling my elbow -- she's finding more information from Denmark than I'm finding in Cleveland! Thanks. Warm regards, Karen ______________________________

I agree with Judith. In my experience, the widowed mother often went to live with a married daughter. Have you already traced all of her children? Did you see if she was listed as living with one of them in the 1900 census? If not, why don't you give their names and perhaps someone can do a lookup for you in that census? If you are trying to find their origins in Ireland, have you also tried to determine if your Patrick is related to any of the other Walsh families living in Cleveland at that time? That's how I found out where my family originated in Ireland -- it took me years, but I finally found a biography of a nephew of my gr gr grandfather that listed his father's birthplace and gave a wonderful family history going back several generations in Ireland -- it even gave my ggggrandmother's maiden name! Now the REAL work begins ... tracing the family in Ireland. But at least I have a starting place. Janet in N.J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith" <jrosenbe@neo.rr.com> To: <OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 7:55 AM Subject: RE: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice > Hi there-- > > I have another suggestion. By 1905, death certs were commonly required. If > there was no cert at the CC Archives, perhaps she did not die in Cuy Co but > in another county. If that were the case, her death would be recorded > there. Were there any family in a nearby county that she might have been > visiting? Lots of Cleveland Irish wound up in Lorain, for example. In that > time period, the mother's maiden name and the name of her parents was often > provided, so it is worth pursuing-- even a trip to the Archives yourself to > double check. > > The necrology files are pretty reliable as well and they contain the death > notices/obits from the newspaper, so you may be hoping for something that > just was not published. And back then, only the barest facts were given-- > name & death date of deceased, where the viewing & burial was. Immediate > surviving family might be mentioned, deceased relatives were not-- no > background on employment or any of the niceties you see today. > > Judith in Ohio >

Hi there-- I have another suggestion. By 1905, death certs were commonly required. If there was no cert at the CC Archives, perhaps she did not die in Cuy Co but in another county. If that were the case, her death would be recorded there. Were there any family in a nearby county that she might have been visiting? Lots of Cleveland Irish wound up in Lorain, for example. In that time period, the mother's maiden name and the name of her parents was often provided, so it is worth pursuing-- even a trip to the Archives yourself to double check. The necrology files are pretty reliable as well and they contain the death notices/obits from the newspaper, so you may be hoping for something that just was not published. And back then, only the barest facts were given-- name & death date of deceased, where the viewing & burial was. Immediate surviving family might be mentioned, deceased relatives were not-- no background on employment or any of the niceties you see today. Judith in Ohio -----Original Message----- From: Karen Hiatt [mailto:Karen@HiattFamily.com] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 3:48 PM To: OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice Hello, List -- I found the tombstone for my great-great grandparents, Patrick and Mary Walsh at St. John's Cemetery on Woodland in Cleveland. Her dates: 1832 to 1905. Patrick Walsh: 1826 to 1897 (but for him, we have a death notice: he lived at 139 Detroit Street; and died 6 July 1897). The Cuyahoga County Archives don't have a death certificate (Dad's list on the cemetery deed shows burial in April, 1905), but she's not in the Cleveland Public Library on-line database, under any of 4 spellings of WALSH. We'd surely like to know her maiden name! All four of their daughters married at St. Malachi's -- and Cousin Adrienne in Denmark got those dates from the Catholic Diocese, and some of the witnesses and priest's names. NOTHING about the parents, nothing about where they came from. We found out that the two older daughters were born in New York. Somewhere. The two younger daughters in "Ohio" -- somewhere -- thanks to the Census. So. Does anyone have a suggestion about where we can find some filmed newspaper archives for the Cleveland area for 1905? Or any OTHER suggestions? I'm just getting back to family research (my husband died in October) -- and I think I need a jump-start! Besides, Adrienne is writing to me and jiggling my elbow -- she's finding more information from Denmark than I'm finding in Cleveland! Thanks. Warm regards, Karen ______________________________

We paid for a just-the-facts death notice in 2002, and it was $240. For one day. With one additional NAME (KING see HIATT). Incidentally -- it helps to have someone in your family INSIST that the funeral director SHOW you what they are faxing to the Plain Dealer, BEFORE they do it. We discovered that the first-day death notice had several mistakes -- because the Director did not use MY print-out list, but wrote out his own. I then had to call the PD myself, deal up the chain-of-command in order for them to take MY version -- then pay for it by credit card right then. I suppose we ought to write out our OWN death notices, for inclusion in the envelope with the living will/advanced care directives and life insurance policies. It helps to have a copy of the will in that envelope, too -- and I'm speaking from recent experience. Organization pays. Still -- you get through it, organized or not. Warm regards, Karen in cold and wet Rocky River, suburb of Cleveland, OH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Mac Suibhne" <maceltic@clover.net> To: <OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:42 PM Subject: RE: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice I know this is true in my family, when the husband died first he was younger meaning he died in his 40s, or 50s. His wife took care of the obit probably because more people knew him, family, friends, co-workers. By the time the wife died at a ripe old age the children felt that everyone she knew had already passed on so no obit was taken out. I have obits for many of my family men but very few for my family women. My grandma just died in April and my mom said 'no' to the funeral director as far as an obit went, Grandma was widowed 20 years and at 89 outlived all but one of her siblings. I convinced my mom it was only right to put it in the paper but even today a small obit in the Plain Dealer is $100.00 Cindy maceltic@clover.net -----Original Message----- From: Karen Hiatt [mailto:Karen@HiattFamily.com] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:48 PM To: OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice Hello, List -- I found the tombstone for my great-great grandparents, Patrick and Mary Walsh at St. John's Cemetery on Woodland in Cleveland. Her dates: 1832 to 1905. Patrick Walsh: 1826 to 1897 (but for him, we have a death notice: he lived at 139 Detroit Street; and died 6 July 1897). The Cuyahoga County Archives don't have a death certificate (Dad's list on the cemetery deed shows burial in April, 1905), but she's not in the Cleveland Public Library on-line database, under any of 4 spellings of WALSH. We'd surely like to know her maiden name! All four of their daughters married at St. Malachi's -- and Cousin Adrienne in Denmark got those dates from the Catholic Diocese, and some of the witnesses and priest's names. NOTHING about the parents, nothing about where they came from. We found out that the two older daughters were born in New York. Somewhere. The two younger daughters in "Ohio" -- somewhere -- thanks to the Census. So. Does anyone have a suggestion about where we can find some filmed newspaper archives for the Cleveland area for 1905? Or any OTHER suggestions? I'm just getting back to family research (my husband died in October) -- and I think I need a jump-start! Besides, Adrienne is writing to me and jiggling my elbow -- she's finding more information from Denmark than I'm finding in Cleveland! Thanks. Warm regards, Karen

I know this is true in my family, when the husband died first he was younger meaning he died in his 40s, or 50s. His wife took care of the obit probably because more people knew him, family, friends, co-workers. By the time the wife died at a ripe old age the children felt that everyone she knew had already passed on so no obit was taken out. I have obits for many of my family men but very few for my family women. My grandma just died in April and my mom said 'no' to the funeral director as far as an obit went, Grandma was widowed 20 years and at 89 outlived all but one of her siblings. I convinced my mom it was only right to put it in the paper but even today a small obit in the Plain Dealer is $100.00 Cindy maceltic@clover.net -----Original Message----- From: Karen Hiatt [mailto:Karen@HiattFamily.com] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 12:48 PM To: OH-CLEVELAND-IRISH-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Mary Walsh -- died 1905 -- need help finding death notice Hello, List -- I found the tombstone for my great-great grandparents, Patrick and Mary Walsh at St. John's Cemetery on Woodland in Cleveland. Her dates: 1832 to 1905. Patrick Walsh: 1826 to 1897 (but for him, we have a death notice: he lived at 139 Detroit Street; and died 6 July 1897). The Cuyahoga County Archives don't have a death certificate (Dad's list on the cemetery deed shows burial in April, 1905), but she's not in the Cleveland Public Library on-line database, under any of 4 spellings of WALSH. We'd surely like to know her maiden name! All four of their daughters married at St. Malachi's -- and Cousin Adrienne in Denmark got those dates from the Catholic Diocese, and some of the witnesses and priest's names. NOTHING about the parents, nothing about where they came from. We found out that the two older daughters were born in New York. Somewhere. The two younger daughters in "Ohio" -- somewhere -- thanks to the Census. So. Does anyone have a suggestion about where we can find some filmed newspaper archives for the Cleveland area for 1905? Or any OTHER suggestions? I'm just getting back to family research (my husband died in October) -- and I think I need a jump-start! Besides, Adrienne is writing to me and jiggling my elbow -- she's finding more information from Denmark than I'm finding in Cleveland! Thanks. Warm regards, Karen

Janet~ You are on target re: the use of obits in the late 19th century. They cost money which the poor immigrant didn't have. Also, people lived in ethnic neighborhoods throughout Cleveland. Word of mouth was a more reliable source of information and many of the immigrants were illiterate. The people who needed to know of a passing, were living quite close to the church and residence. Much of the time, the wake was held in the home of the deceased or a close relative. I remember the black wreaths and bunting on homes in St. Patrick's parish when I was a child. In 1948 my grandfather was waked in his home on W 47th. My Gran sat by the coffin throughout the night or some other female relative was there to let her rest. Mary Ellen Chambers

The Ohio Historical Society has old newspapers on microfilm. You can find the list on their web site and request the film through interlibrary loan at your local library (if you are outside the Cleveland area) I live in New Jersey and was able to get the film of Cleveland newspapers from the 1860s and 1870s. Be aware that there may not be an obituary that gives parents' names and place of birth like we have today. I think you had to pay to have an obituary placed and even then it often did not give the kind of information one finds later. My gr gr grandfather's brother was a city councilman in Cleveland and I found an article that told of his death, that the other councilmen assembled in chambers and then accompanied his body to the church, but not a word of his parents, survivors, or place of birth. Good luck! Janet in NJ

Karen~ I know that Fairview Library has old papers for research. The years are at least back to 1875. Western Reserve Historical Society also has papers. Just takes time at the Microfiche. Mary Ellen Chambers