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    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] What is this occupation please!!
    2. Emaress Nova
    3. If the occupation was for a male it might be "collier" a coal miner. My God provides my every need according to His riches in glory. Amen From: Trevor Tomasin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] What is this occupation please!! Hi Diane No idea - sorry On 18/11/2012 11:30, Diane wrote: > Hi there, Diane here I am new to this list. > > I have an occupation that LOOKS LIKE: > > collsda!!! > > I know that this isn't right, what could it be please all you clever > people out there.  It is on a marriage certificate of 1901. > > Thanks very much for answering. > > Diane Cheers ;-) Trev www.hm-waterguard.org.uk - for the HMC&E Waterguard web site. I DON'T wish to be involved in Facebook, Linkden, MySpace, Bebo or Twitter etc. - So DON'T ask!     This e-mail, and any attachments to it, have been automatically checked for 'nasties', and found to be clean, by the latest Kaspersky Labs Internet Security software. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/18/2012 03:08:09
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] advocate (Canada 1755) ; The Honourable; Esquire; Gentleman, Gentlewoman
    2. paynescrossing
    3. For what it may be worth here are three entries from W.J. Byrne (1923) Dictionary of English Law Esquire. Strictly speaking, the only persons entitled to the description of esquire are: (i) the eldest sons of knights, and their eldest sons in perpetual succession, and all the sons of baronets; (ii) the eldest sons of younger sons of peers in like succession; (iii) esquires created by the Crown's letters patent or other investiture, and their eldest sons; (iv) esquires by virtue of their office, such as justices of the peace and barristers at law and attorneys in colonies where every attorney is also a barrister; (v) foreign peers. Every Knight of the Bath has the privilege of creating three esquires at his installation. Gentleman; Gentlewoman. When a man of independent means is not entitled to the affix "esquire" and is of no occupation, he is usually described in legal documents as "gentleman" but no precise meaning in the law can be attached either to that word or to the word "gentlewoman." The latter word is not used in legal documents to describe even a woman of respectable social position who has no particular occupation. If unmarried, she is described as "spinster"; if a widow, she is described as "widow"; and if married, she is described as "wife of A. B." Honourable. This title is applied to the younger sons, but to none of the daughters, of earls, and to all the children of viscounts and barons; to all past and present Maids of Honour to the Queen; to all Justices of the High Court; to the Scottish Lords of Session; to the Lord Provost of Glasgow during office; and to members of Governments and of Legislative Councils in India and the Colonies. Where this title is applicable to the son of a peer, it is applied also to his wife or widow. These uses of the word are officially recognised. Regards On 27 April 2010 21:56, <[email protected]> wrote:

    04/29/2010 11:12:40
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] OCCUPATIONS Digest, Vol 4, Issue 6
    2. I just found out that one of my Canadian ancestors was listed in an Ontario Canada list as 'advocate', in 1755. Which leads me to wonder about how the term is applied . On a two-page list of voters there were several (about five of 65 or so), some listed as only 'gentleman' . Of those named 'advocate', one of these people was addressed as (surname),Hon., (given-name) without using a traditional term of esquire . I, then surmised that it could be an elected title. I'm wondering if it was a registration of someone serving as a salesman or an attorney . Any ideas on this ? Dave

    04/27/2010 01:56:43
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] Silversmith/Jewllers
    2. I have just found my 3rd Gt Grandfather in 2 census after many years of looking! I know from his son's marriage certificate that Edward Blandford (possibly Edward Christina Blandford) was a Jewller, thought to have been born in the Birmingham area around 1794 - 1797, and moved to the St Margrets, Westminster, Middx. area where he lived until he died in 1858 at 2 Hopkins Row. He was here in 1851 and probably before that. Can anyone help me with any more details? Thanks, Chris

    04/26/2010 07:30:46
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] A new website - www.familynotices.org
    2. Nigel Penton Tilbury
    3. Posted with the kind permission of the Listowner. You are cordially invited to visit www.familynotices.org, a totally non-commercial & privately-owned site. Following the death of a close family member, I was surprised at the charges levied by the local newspaper for posting just a small obituary. The same applies to birth, engagement, marriages notices et al. It made me think through the whole 'public notices' thing and I created FamilyNotices.org which is an on-line repository for all such, with no fees or charges to view, search or post. Unlike a newspaper this has the advantage of being world-wide, free and doesn't get thrown away! Please feel free to help yourself and post anything which is relevant and appropriate - and it doesn't have to be current. Details of 'Auntie Millie born in 1896' is just as relevant as a modern-day wedding notice. If you like it, please tell your friends, for anyone is welcome to post good news or sad news. .........& if you don't, just tell me! Cheers for now, Nigel ______________________________________________ FamilyNotices.org - the free online repository for all notices of Births, Deaths, Marriages, Engagements, Anniversaries and Missing Persons Doing it for free - unlike the newspapers ! Visit www.familynotices.org Follow us on Twitter www.twitter.com/familynotices ______________________________________________

    04/07/2010 03:25:25
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver
    2. Brenda MacCulloch
    3. I have ancestors in the 1800's London, England who were Wood Carver's and had either father's, brothers or Uncles' who were Stone Mason's. It seems to me that the two occupations relied on each other, as stone buildings needed wooden doors and pillar's etc. brenda hamitlon, new zealand > > 2010/1/5 john robson <[email protected]>: > >> can anyone help to educate me in the trade of wood carver. > >> 1891 in Newcastle on Tyne, in all census's he listed himself as a >> wood >> carver (once as a carver in wood). > >> I assume that he would have served an apprenticeship to this trade >> as I > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >

    01/06/2010 12:25:27
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver
    2. john robson
    3. Hi Brenda, that would be a good idea, keeping the family in work and knowing that workmates can be trusted. That would suggest that chasing up siblings in the family is worthwhile. A number of the children of my gggrandfather who became gardener to a prosperous businessman moved all over the country as servants in to other wealthy families. --- On Wed, 6/1/10, Brenda MacCulloch <[email protected]> wrote: From: Brenda MacCulloch <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver To: [email protected] Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 6:25 I have ancestors in the 1800's London, England who were Wood Carver's  and had either father's, brothers or Uncles' who were Stone Mason's. It seems to me that the two occupations relied on each other, as stone  buildings needed wooden doors and pillar's etc. brenda hamitlon, new zealand > > 2010/1/5 john robson <[email protected]>: > >> can anyone help to educate me in the trade of wood carver. > >> 1891 in Newcastle on Tyne, in all census's he listed himself as a  >> wood >> carver (once as a carver in wood). > >> I assume that he would have served an apprenticeship to this trade  >> as I > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >  with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and  > the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    01/06/2010 10:06:25
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver
    2. john robson
    3. --- On Tue, 5/1/10, paynescrossing <[email protected]> wrote: From: paynescrossing <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 8:36 Hi John and list I can't educate you in the trade nor help with your particular ancestor. Have you checked the trade directories for the period/locations? For England & Wales go to: http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/ Hi, Thanks for your reply, you've given me a lot to think about there. Directories will be my first approach. John

    01/05/2010 01:08:19
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver
    2. paynescrossing
    3. Hi John and list I can't educate you in the trade nor help with your particular ancestor. Have you checked the trade directories for the period/locations? For England & Wales go to: http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/ Wood carving was a trade with appenticeships (you'll have to ask the relevant lists for the areas you are interested in if the indentures have survived) proceeding to becoming a journeyman then on to master. Since your man simply lists himself as wood carver (not master wood carver) it is a reasonably (but rebuttable) presumption that he was a journeyman and not a master who might have employed others. Apprenticeship? He may have been indentured to a wood carver but it is possible that he learnt his trade from other than a wood carver or by a wood carver employed in a business who used the skill as part of a group of craftsmen, for example, a firm of a cabinet maker (a generic term in the furniture trades for those making all kinds of furniture who also might employ general cabinet-makers, chair-makers, bedstead-makers, upholsterers, French polishers and sawyers), a shipwright (the carving of a ship's figurehead was a specialised skill) or a carpenter and joiner or other wood worker or artisans who might work in wood as well as other materials (eg sculptor). As I understand it, he wold not have learnt technical drawing but would have worked from either models or books of illustrations (no measurements). The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography lists a number of persons who either began their lives as wood carvers or were masters of the craft: Gibbons, Grinling (1648–1721), woodcarver and sculptor ...Gibbons,Grinling1648–1721, woodcarver and sculptor, was born on 14 April 1648 in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, one of ... Banks, Thomas (1735–1805), sculptor ...he was born in 1739) Banks returned to London to be apprenticed to the mason and woodcarver William Barlow. He may have assisted Barlow with chimney-pieces for the Mansion House, London, ... Burnet, James M. (1788–1816), landscape painter ...His elder brother was the painter and engraver John Burnet. He was first apprenticed to a woodcarver, but also attended evening classes held by John Graham at the Trustees' Academy in ... Waldron, Francis Godolphin (bap. 1743, d. 1818), actor and playwright ...known about his family circumstances. An early nineteenth-century source suggests that he was apprenticed to the woodcarver Hayworth (the uncle of Samuel De Wilde, who later painted his portrait in character). ... Flaxman, John (1755–1826), sculptor, decorative designer, and illustrator Click here to see image ...artists represented on the façade of the Victoria and Albert Museum, London.William Flaxman 1753, sculptor and woodcarver, was probably born in London in 1753, eldest of three children of John Flaxman ... Rattee, James (1820–1855), woodcarver and mason ...Rattee,James1820–1855, woodcarver and mason, was born at Fundenhall, Norfolk. Of his parents, nothing is known. He ... Gibson, John (1790–1866), sculptor ...the cabinet-makers Southwell and Wilson. After a year with the firm he was working as a woodcarver, ornamenting furniture.When he was about sixteen Gibson visited the workshops of the marble masons .. Quite a few more began lives as the children of wood carvers, I will record only one here: Sir Humphrey Davy. The Morning Chronicle (London, England) ran a famous series of lengthy "letters" on "Labour and the Poor" in 1849-1850 which have been collected a published as Anne Humpherys (ed) "Voices of the poor: selections from the Morning Chronicle 'Labour and the poor' (1849-1850)" ISBN 0714629294 which is a wonderful resource for descriptions of the of trades in Victorian England. Here is a small transcription of one letter: "OF THE FURNITURE WORKERS. LETTER LXIII. "Having now set forth the earnings and condition of the Wood-workers who are engaged in the construction of our houses, I shall treat of those who are engaged in the furnishing of them. "Cabinet-making is the one generic term applied to the manufacture of every description of furniture. Upholstery is, however, a distinct art or handicraft, dealing with different materials. The cabinetmaker is a pure wood-worker; and that, perhaps, of the very highest order. Being generally engaged upon the most expensive woods, his work is required to be of the most finished and tasty description. The art is constantly calling forth a very high exercise of skill, ingenuity, and invention. It is a trade which perhaps, more intimately than any other, is mixed up with the fine arts. Parqueterie is mosaic work in wood; as wood-carving, in its higher branches, is sculpture in wood. The upholsterers, who confine themselves to their own proper branch, are the fitters-up of curtains and their hangings, either for beds or windows ; they are also the stuffers of the chair and sofa cushions, and the makers of carpets and of beds ; that is to say, they are the tradesmen who, in the language of the craft, " do the soft work "-or in other words, all connected with the cabinet-maker's art in which woven materials are the staple. "The cabinet-maker's trade of the best class, where society-men are employed, is now divided into the General and Fancy Cabinet-makers. There are also the ('hair-makers and the Bedstead-makers. The General Cabinet hand makes every description of furniture apart from chairs or bedsteads. " A general hand," I was told by an intelligent workman, " must be able to make everything, from the smallest comb-tray to the largest bookcase. If lie can't do whatever lie's put to, he must go." He is usually kept, however, to tile manufacture of the larger articles of furniture-as tables, drawers, chiffoniers, sideboards, wardrobes, and the like. "The Fancy Cabinet-maker, on the other hand, manufactures all the lighter or more portable articles of the trade, and such as scarcely come under the head of furniture. In the language of the craft he is a " small Yorker," and makes ladies work-bones and tables, tea-caddies, portable desks, dressing cases, card, glove, gun, and pistol cases, cribbage-boards, and such like. "The Chairmaker constructs every description of chairs and sofas, but only tile frame-work : the finishing, when stuffed backs or cushions, or stuffing of any kind, is required, is the department of the upholsterer. "The Bedstead-maker is employed in the making of bedsteads ; but his work is considered less skilled than that of the other branches, as the woodcarver or the turner's art is that called upon for the formation of the handsome pillars of a bedstead of the best order." ... "The cabinet-maker's trade is generally learned by apprenticeship, and the apprentices to superior masters are often the sons of tradesmen, and are well-educated lads. There is no limit to the number a master may take, but the great firms in the honourable trade take very few, while the masters not in the honourable trade will, I am informed, take very many (one has eleven), and even put run-away apprentices to work. " They go for one thing, sir," a cabinet-maker said to me, " to get things done for half-price ; it's little matter how." "A journeyman can have his own son apprenticed to him, but only one at a time. "The payment of the journeyman cabinet-maker is, both by the piece and by the week, 32s. a week, being the minimum allowed by the rules of the society as the remuneration for a week's labour, or six days of ten hours each. The prices by piece are regulated by a book, which is really a remarkable production. It is a thick quarto volume, containing some 600 pages. Under the respective heads the piece-work price of every article of furniture is specified ; and immediately after what is called the "start" price, or the price for the plain article, follows an elaborate enumeration of extras, according as the article may be ordered to be ornamented in any particular manner. There are also engravings of all the principal articles in the trade, which further facilitate the clear understanding of all the regulations contained in the work. The date of this book of prices is 1811, and the wages of the society men have been unchanged since then. The preparation of this ample and minute statement of prices occupied a committee of masters and of journeymen between two and three years. The committee were paid for their loss of time from the masters' and the journeymen's funds respectively; and what with these payments, what with the expense of attending the meetings and consultations, the making and remaking of models, the cost of printing and engravings, the cabinet-makers' book of prices was not compiled, I am assured, at a less cost than from £4,000 to £5,000." Regards 2010/1/5 john robson <[email protected]>: > can anyone help to educate me in the trade of wood carver. > 1891 in Newcastle on Tyne, in all census's he listed himself as a wood > carver (once as a carver in wood). > I assume that he would have served an apprenticeship to this trade as I

    01/05/2010 12:36:26
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] wood carver
    2. john robson
    3. Hi all, can anyone help to educate me in the trade of wood carver. My gggrandfather John Coleman was born about 1822 in Macroom, County Cork. I have traced him through the census from 1851 in Kelso, Roxboroughshire to 1891 in Newcastle on Tyne, in all census's he listed himself as a wood carver (once as a carver in wood). I assume that he would have served an apprenticeship to this trade as I believe it involved at least understanding technical drawing but whether he gained his trade in Ireland or Scotland is yet to be discovered. As he was 30 in the 1851 census he would have been an established tradesman. What kind of work would he have done, I assume from some of the addresses in the census's that he was better off financially than the average man, in 1861 he was living in Clayport Street in the centre of Alnwick Northumberland and in 1871 in Clayton Street in Newcastle on Tyne. Would there be a record of his apprenticeship in Ireland or in Scotland if he came there as a boy. Any help would be greatly appreciated. John Robson

    01/04/2010 10:00:03
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. paynescrossing
    3. Hi Beryl & list Sorry, I don't think I can answer so precise a question about one individual. Perhaps he thought of himself as a writing clerk rather than a muslin manufacturer? Perhaps he was employed and then bought into the business? Perhaps this was his profession before entering business? Perhaps these are two different people with the same name? Perhaps ... ? Writing clerks were employed in business and in government. As to social status, the King's Secretaries of State had writing clerks (see below) but writing clerks were down the line from office holders and their secretaries but perhaps above that of other office clerks: "Mr Widdows (who may be styled the writing clerk) transcribes all papers for the King's hand, and enters them when signed : is reckoned Mr Cooke's clerk and to be paid by him at £50 a year, besides 2/6 out of each signature that passeth and pays, as the office keeper receives 2/6 more. And as he comes and goes at Mr. Cooke's hours, so in his absence what business happens is to be done by some of the other clerk's." F. M. Greir Evans "Emoluments of the Principal Secretaries of State in the Seventeenth Century" The English Historical Review (1920) Vol. 35, No. 140 pp. 513-528 at p 526. Here's a quote from 1891 (again, American): "Though the skill of a physician will always differ from that of a writing clerk or a hodman, that difference in quality is no security that the difference in value of the kinds of work shall continue." J. A. Hobson "The Element of Monopoly in Prices" The Quarterly Journal of Economics (1891) Vol. 6, No. 1 pp. 1-24 at pp19-20. So here a writing clerk is being compared to a brick carrier (a trade's assistant, not a qualified tradesman himself). Describing a person at the end of the C18th: "Instead, Talbot, in the lowly position of writing clerk, ..." Michael Durey "Lord Grenville and the 'Smoking Gun'" The Historical Journal (2002) Vol. 45, No. 3 pp. 547-568. Again, from this quote we get the sense that this job was a junior or assistant position: "In ... 1834, the first mathematical master at Winchester, Walford, was appointed .... Till 1861 he was the only mathematical master for the whole school (then 150 or so) except for a writing clerk who cleaned slates, etc." "Report of the Mathematical Association Committee on the Teaching of Mathematics in Public and Secondary Schools" The Mathematical Gazette (1919) Vol. 9, No. 143 pp. 393-421 at p 405. Writing clerks appear to have eventually been replaced by typists and carbon paper. Hope this helps. Regards 2009/12/31 J&B Henry <[email protected]>: > So, would this occupation be something that a co-owner of a business would do?

    12/31/2009 07:08:45
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. J&B Henry
    3. Thank you for your help in understanding this occupation term. Truly, very interesting! Beryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "paynescrossing" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland Hi Beryl & list Sorry, I don't think I can answer so precise a question about one individual. Perhaps he thought of himself as a writing clerk rather than a muslin manufacturer? Perhaps he was employed and then bought into the business? Perhaps this was his profession before entering business? Perhaps these are two different people with the same name? Perhaps ... ? Writing clerks were employed in business and in government. As to social status, the King's Secretaries of State had writing clerks (see below) but writing clerks were down the line from office holders and their secretaries but perhaps above that of other office clerks: "Mr Widdows (who may be styled the writing clerk) transcribes all papers for the King's hand, and enters them when signed : is reckoned Mr Cooke's clerk and to be paid by him at £50 a year, besides 2/6 out of each signature that passeth and pays, as the office keeper receives 2/6 more. And as he comes and goes at Mr. Cooke's hours, so in his absence what business happens is to be done by some of the other clerk's." F. M. Greir Evans "Emoluments of the Principal Secretaries of State in the Seventeenth Century" The English Historical Review (1920) Vol. 35, No. 140 pp. 513-528 at p 526. Here's a quote from 1891 (again, American): "Though the skill of a physician will always differ from that of a writing clerk or a hodman, that difference in quality is no security that the difference in value of the kinds of work shall continue." J. A. Hobson "The Element of Monopoly in Prices" The Quarterly Journal of Economics (1891) Vol. 6, No. 1 pp. 1-24 at pp19-20. So here a writing clerk is being compared to a brick carrier (a trade's assistant, not a qualified tradesman himself). Describing a person at the end of the C18th: "Instead, Talbot, in the lowly position of writing clerk, ..." Michael Durey "Lord Grenville and the 'Smoking Gun'" The Historical Journal (2002) Vol. 45, No. 3 pp. 547-568. Again, from this quote we get the sense that this job was a junior or assistant position: "In ... 1834, the first mathematical master at Winchester, Walford, was appointed .... Till 1861 he was the only mathematical master for the whole school (then 150 or so) except for a writing clerk who cleaned slates, etc." "Report of the Mathematical Association Committee on the Teaching of Mathematics in Public and Secondary Schools" The Mathematical Gazette (1919) Vol. 9, No. 143 pp. 393-421 at p 405. Writing clerks appear to have eventually been replaced by typists and carbon paper. Hope this helps. Regards 2009/12/31 J&B Henry <[email protected]>: > So, would this occupation be something that a co-owner of a business would do? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    12/31/2009 06:59:52
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. J&B Henry
    3. ----- Original Message ----- From: "paynescrossing" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland Hi Beryl & list Sorry, I don't think I can answer so precise a question about one individual. Perhaps he thought of himself as a writing clerk rather than a muslin manufacturer? Perhaps he was employed and then bought into the business? Perhaps this was his profession before entering business? Perhaps these are two different people with the same name? Perhaps ... ? Writing clerks were employed in business and in government. As to social status, the King's Secretaries of State had writing clerks (see below) but writing clerks were down the line from office holders and their secretaries but perhaps above that of other office clerks: "Mr Widdows (who may be styled the writing clerk) transcribes all papers for the King's hand, and enters them when signed : is reckoned Mr Cooke's clerk and to be paid by him at £50 a year, besides 2/6 out of each signature that passeth and pays, as the office keeper receives 2/6 more. And as he comes and goes at Mr. Cooke's hours, so in his absence what business happens is to be done by some of the other clerk's." F. M. Greir Evans "Emoluments of the Principal Secretaries of State in the Seventeenth Century" The English Historical Review (1920) Vol. 35, No. 140 pp. 513-528 at p 526. Here's a quote from 1891 (again, American): "Though the skill of a physician will always differ from that of a writing clerk or a hodman, that difference in quality is no security that the difference in value of the kinds of work shall continue." J. A. Hobson "The Element of Monopoly in Prices" The Quarterly Journal of Economics (1891) Vol. 6, No. 1 pp. 1-24 at pp19-20. So here a writing clerk is being compared to a brick carrier (a trade's assistant, not a qualified tradesman himself). Describing a person at the end of the C18th: "Instead, Talbot, in the lowly position of writing clerk, ..." Michael Durey "Lord Grenville and the 'Smoking Gun'" The Historical Journal (2002) Vol. 45, No. 3 pp. 547-568. Again, from this quote we get the sense that this job was a junior or assistant position: "In ... 1834, the first mathematical master at Winchester, Walford, was appointed .... Till 1861 he was the only mathematical master for the whole school (then 150 or so) except for a writing clerk who cleaned slates, etc." "Report of the Mathematical Association Committee on the Teaching of Mathematics in Public and Secondary Schools" The Mathematical Gazette (1919) Vol. 9, No. 143 pp. 393-421 at p 405. Writing clerks appear to have eventually been replaced by typists and carbon paper. Hope this helps. Regards 2009/12/31 J&B Henry <[email protected]>: > So, would this occupation be something that a co-owner of a business would do? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    12/31/2009 06:56:48
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. paynescrossing
    3. Hi Beryl and list A "writing clerk" appears to have been a person who transcribed into a fair hand letters for signature by another, perhaps for the principal of the business. Here's an American writing in the 1940s and concerning a larger bureaucracy but it gives you the idea: "Before the introduction of the typewriter to the Federal government about the beginning of this century, a principal clerk drafted a letter in longhand. Necessary changes were made in that draft by his division chief, bureau head, head of agency, and anyone else concerned. Before or after the letter was received by the head of the agency, a smooth copy of it was prepared by a writing clerk. It was this copy that was usually mailed." Emmett J. Leahy "Records Administration and the War" Military Affairs (1942) Vol 6 (2) pp97-108 at p104. If the search of the archives lead you to this thread: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/OCCUPATIONS/2002-07/1026159274 I can't agree with that. At the relevant time, court proceedings were recorded by the Clerk of the Court, quite a different profession. Legal documents were written out in fair hand (often in multiple copies) by a person called a scrivener. Regards 2009/12/30 J&B Henry <[email protected]>: > Hi, > I've check out your list archives on the subject of what a writing clerk's responsibilities were but do have an additional question.  I've also checked out <clip>

    12/30/2009 05:09:47
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. J&B Henry
    3. Hi, Thank you for your reply. So, would this occupation be something that a co-owner of a business would do? In this case there are 3 co-owners of the one business (sewed muslin manufacturers). My ancestor is listed in the 1865 city directory as a co-owner (names listed with the business - not just employed by it) and yet he had given his occupation in the marriage record of the same year as a writing clerk. Beryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "paynescrossing" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 7:09 AM Subject: Re: [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland Hi Beryl and list A "writing clerk" appears to have been a person who transcribed into a fair hand letters for signature by another, perhaps for the principal of the business. Here's an American writing in the 1940s and concerning a larger bureaucracy but it gives you the idea: "Before the introduction of the typewriter to the Federal government about the beginning of this century, a principal clerk drafted a letter in longhand. Necessary changes were made in that draft by his division chief, bureau head, head of agency, and anyone else concerned. Before or after the letter was received by the head of the agency, a smooth copy of it was prepared by a writing clerk. It was this copy that was usually mailed." Emmett J. Leahy "Records Administration and the War" Military Affairs (1942) Vol 6 (2) pp97-108 at p104. If the search of the archives lead you to this thread: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/OCCUPATIONS/2002-07/1026159274 I can't agree with that. At the relevant time, court proceedings were recorded by the Clerk of the Court, quite a different profession. Legal documents were written out in fair hand (often in multiple copies) by a person called a scrivener. Regards 2009/12/30 J&B Henry <[email protected]>: > Hi, > I've check out your list archives on the subject of what a writing clerk's responsibilities were but do have an additional question. I've also checked out <clip>

    12/30/2009 03:13:42
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] Writing clerk; 1860; Ireland
    2. J&B Henry
    3. Hi, I've check out your list archives on the subject of what a writing clerk's responsibilities were but do have an additional question. I've also checked out the various websites that list old occupations in the UK but still didn't find an answer for my question. My ancestor's job as a "writing clerk" wasn't in the legal profession but in a manufacturing firm. Would that mean that he did secretarial duties ie payroll, invoicing, inventory, etc? This would be in the 1860s in Belfast. Thanks Beryl

    12/29/2009 08:06:47
    1. Re: [OCCUPATIONS] PAVIOURS
    2. Hello, I would think ut quite possible to have more than one paviour in the village. If there was work available in the neighbourhood it might be that several members of the family would take jobs. Maybe the reason that George's father is absent is that he was away working in a nearby town.A paviour or paver would have been in demand in areas where there was a lot of building going on, as there often was at the period in history. Good luck with your search. Brenda --- On Thu, 4/9/08, Pete Dale <[email protected]> wrote: From: Pete Dale <[email protected]> Subject: [OCCUPATIONS] PAVIOURS To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 4 September, 2008, 2:37 PM I'm looking for information about how common was the occupation of 'Paviour' around 1840. My gt grandfather George Dale was born in Smallwood, Cheshire in 1838, the son of George Dale (Paviour) and Mary Dale nee Dean (acc to his birth certificate). In 1841 Mary (aged is living without George, but there is no sign of his death. There are two older children aged 7 and 5 In the same township was a family headed by Samuel Dale, Paviour including his son George Dale, also a Paviour, aged (according to later censuses) about 18. The ages look wrong for this George to be the father of the child, but in a township of just over 200 people it seems odd that there would be 3 paviours, two of them named George Dale. Can anybody either confirm or refute this? Many thanks, Pete Dale ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    09/04/2008 11:18:58
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] PAVIOURS
    2. Pete Dale
    3. I'm looking for information about how common was the occupation of 'Paviour' around 1840. My gt grandfather George Dale was born in Smallwood, Cheshire in 1838, the son of George Dale (Paviour) and Mary Dale nee Dean (acc to his birth certificate). In 1841 Mary (aged is living without George, but there is no sign of his death. There are two older children aged 7 and 5 In the same township was a family headed by Samuel Dale, Paviour including his son George Dale, also a Paviour, aged (according to later censuses) about 18. The ages look wrong for this George to be the father of the child, but in a township of just over 200 people it seems odd that there would be 3 paviours, two of them named George Dale. Can anybody either confirm or refute this? Many thanks, Pete Dale

    09/04/2008 08:37:42
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] CRAMPTON William
    2. robinamckenzie
    3. 1. CRAMPTON William (1): Gt. grandfather (a) Naval service: Eng. Census 1861 = Ordinary Seaman. How do I get his service record? (b) Ships Steward: Eng. Census 1881. Is there a list? (c) London Publican: Is there a list? 2. CRAMPTON William (2): Gt. Uncle (a) Naval service: HMS Centurion. How do I get a service record? Thanks.

    08/24/2008 11:03:12
    1. [OCCUPATIONS] Millers
    2. Eileen Smith
    3. An ancestor was described on the 1841 census in Liverpool as being a miller by occupation--he was later described as a corn miller. Can anybody tell me please if millers served an apprenticeship? Also, does anybody know of any flour or corn mills in Liverpool during the period 1820--1880? Thank you-Eileen

    07/31/2008 03:40:20