are you able to scan the document to us - someone might be able to decipher? Michelle Harte Whakatane, New Zealand [email protected] --- On Thu, 19/5/11, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: From: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: [NZ-AUCKLAND] A place name I cannot read. To: [email protected] Date: Thursday, 19, May, 2011, 3:50 AM I am looking for more help please! I have found reference in some old papers to " a  Lukentua (?) Nursery, Dairy Flat, Auckland I am almost certain that I have the name of the nursery  incorrect, but the handwriting is very hard to decipher. I would be very grateful if anyone with local knowledge of the  area can tell me what the correct name is, and if anyone has any information on  the area, that would be a bonus. The Nursery was in operation around 1890 Thank you, Elsbeth ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am looking for more help please! I have found reference in some old papers to " a Lukentua (?) Nursery, Dairy Flat, Auckland I am almost certain that I have the name of the nursery incorrect, but the handwriting is very hard to decipher. I would be very grateful if anyone with local knowledge of the area can tell me what the correct name is, and if anyone has any information on the area, that would be a bonus. The Nursery was in operation around 1890 Thank you, Elsbeth

Hi I wonder if anyone can help me? I have obtained a copy of a will which mentions a Gt Uncle of mine farming at Lot 307 in the Parish of Pukentua (I think that's the spelling, please correct me if not) in 1890 and a few years prior to that. Does anyone know anything about this area. its whereabouts or what the land is used for now? I'd be so grateful for any information. Elsbeth

Searching the above name. In particular James (Jim ) William CROSS. born Wales 1912. Spent some time in Australia, before moving on. Would like to make contact with anyone with same interest. Nancy N.Z.

Hello Wayne. I am not sure that this is connected with your question, but when I was a kid growing up in Australia, the US city of San Francisco was always known as "Frisco" -- sort of a contraction of FRancISCO. Many years later when I travelled to that city, there was a continuous campaign by the locals, to educate other Americans who visited their city, this way: "Welcome to San Francisco. Please don't call it Frisco". So on that basis, I could have surmised that the postal service was expected to deliver his card en-route through San Francisco. BUT that would not account for his using the same terminology when writing from just a few miles away in England. Perhaps it was a code between the two of them? Ray in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > On the subject of postage I have postcards from the early 1900s written by > my grandfather to his fiance in England with the hand written words 'Via > Frisco' written on the top left hand corner. The same words appear on > postcards to the same fiance when he was back in England writing to her > from only a few miles away. > > Can anyone enlighten me on this please? > > Wayne McBride

Hi all. On the subject of postage I have postcards from the early 1900s written by my grandfather to his fiance in England with the hand written words 'Via Frisco' written on the top left hand corner. The same words appear on postcards to the same fiance when he was back in England writing to her from only a few miles away. Can anyone enlighten me on this please? Wayne McBride

Thanks to everyone for the help on dating and identifying my postcards, lots of avenues for further research there, should keep me out of mischief. Elsbeth

I originally thought 'via San Francisco'. But if it's only a few miles in England. Maybe he'd already written it on the postcards when he was away. This might help - http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/2009-12/1261974507 Lots of mentions on google. Cheers Andy Support Shelterbox for disasters - http://www.shelterbox.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:36 AM Subject: [NZ-AUCKLAND] Via Frisco > > Hi all. > > On the subject of postage I have postcards from the early 1900s written by > my grandfather to his fiance in England with the hand written words 'Via > Frisco' written on the top left hand corner. The same words appear on > postcards to the same fiance when he was back in England writing to her > from only a few miles away. > > Can anyone enlighten me on this please? > > Wayne McBride > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Elsbeth I take it that these postcards you are trying to date were not posted, else the cancellation date stamp would give you the date. The "postcard mania" is usually dated 1901-1913. 1901 because that is when the "universal penny postage" was adopted in NZ. The first postcards date from 1870 but became more popular as German printing technology enabled their cheap reproduction. The campaign in the Empire for a "universal penny postage" led to a number of British colonies offering a discount rate for postcards (in NZ, half the standard letter rate). Mass production of the cards came to an end with the War. Postcards remained popular but their volume declined. You can read more about the penny post in this article from 1911: http://www.philatelicdatabase.com/new-zealand/the-evolution-of-the-penny-postage-in-new-zealand/ There are "cartophilic" clubs and societies around the place (they collect all sorts of cards including cigarette cards as well as postcards). http://australiancartophilic.org.au/information.html I understand that the March 2010 (Vol 90 No. 1) issue of the "New Zealand Stamp Collector" contains an article by A. P. Berry, "New Zealand and the Postcard" which might be worth seeking out at your local library or philatelic society. Sadly, the author passed away recently. Many public collections (libraries, museums) will hold postcards but they may not be well catalogued. Perhaps this is of interest: http://www.wcl.govt.nz/heritage/constable.html Or maybe your postcard is listed here? http://digital.liby.waikato.ac.nz/nzc/photos/history/index_4.html Regards

Brenda (from Hamilton) suggested that " if you tell us your family surnames, that is those who may have brought the NZ post cards over to the ?? UK ?? Then you may be surprised at the help you get" so here goes.... I think the postcards were bought back to the UK by my Taid (Welsh Grandfather) when he visited NZ at the end of the !9thC (around 1898) His name was Robert Owen Roberts They are both listed as The Northern Steam Ship Company's Annual Summer Cruise. There is one of Crocodile Rock, Whangaroa and another of A Kauri Forest. (The pictures were taken by Winklemann) Any further info on the cards or the area, would be most welcome. Elsbeth

Hi Elsbeth, if you tell us your family surnames, that is those who may have brought the NZ post cards over to the ?? UK ?? Then you may be surprised at the help you get. Cheers, Brenda Hamilton NZ On 19/04/2011, at 11:42 AM, Nancy Finn wrote: > Hi Elsbeth. > > Have a look at "Google" Different colours of Penny Stamps are listed. > Going back to the 1840 +. > > Nancy N.Z. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message >

Thank you very much to everyone who has given me ideas how to search for the postal rates of long ago! I think it's pretty certain that these post cards I have must pre date 1870, which means I shall now have to rethink who it was that brought them over to the UK. Thanks again. Elsbeth

Hi Elsbeth. Have a look at "Google" Different colours of Penny Stamps are listed. Going back to the 1840 +. Nancy N.Z.

Hello Andy. What great links you provided here. Thanks very much. regards: ray in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Hedgcock" <[email protected]> > http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/ > > http://www.nzpf.org.nz/frameset.html

Hi again Elsbeth. I googled for "Papers Past" "New Zealand", clicked on the relevant result/s, then when the home page appeared, I SEARCHED for the entire phrase postage rates There were over 300 hits. Try it for yourself, and work through them, and maybe something there might help you. Here is a link to one of the result pages -- for 1870 I think it was -- showing NO special rate for postcards, and showing 2d (tuppence / twopence) as the standard letter rate within NZ --- but only 1d (one penny) WITHIN THE SAME TOWN. http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TS18701121.1.4&e=-------10--1----2%22postage+rates%22-- I don't know if that might help you, or hinder you -- as i had not expected to find a differential rate between the same town and the rest of the country. Anyway, see what you might find by replicating the search. It may be that "postal rates" instead of "postage rates"; or "rates of postage" might bring more or better results. regards: ray in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> > Thanks to Sandra and Ray for their feedback. > > Yes, Ray, you are correct I am trying to find out between what years the > postal rate for a postcard was 1d in NZ. > > The postcards are unstamped, so there is no narrowing the field down by > identifying the sovereign's head. > > My search continues! > > Thanks for your help though. > > Elsbeth

http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/ http://www.nzpf.org.nz/frameset.html Either of these might be able to help... Cheers Andy Support Shelterbox for disasters - http://www.shelterbox.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [NZ-AUCKLAND] Thank you > Hi again Elsbeth. > > I googled for "Papers Past" "New Zealand", clicked on the relevant > result/s, > then when the home page appeared, I SEARCHED for the entire phrase > postage rates > > There were over 300 hits. > > Try it for yourself, and work through them, and maybe something there > might > help you. > > Here is a link to one of the result pages -- for 1870 I think it was -- > showing NO special rate for postcards, and showing 2d (tuppence / > twopence) > as the standard letter rate within NZ --- but only 1d (one penny) WITHIN > THE > SAME TOWN. > > http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TS18701121.1.4&e=-------10--1----2%22postage+rates%22-- > > I don't know if that might help you, or hinder you -- as i had not > expected > to find a differential rate between the same town and the rest of the > country. > > Anyway, see what you might find by replicating the search. > It may be that "postal rates" instead of "postage rates"; or "rates of > postage" might bring more or better results. > > regards: ray in oz > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > > >> Thanks to Sandra and Ray for their feedback. >> >> Yes, Ray, you are correct I am trying to find out between what years the >> postal rate for a postcard was 1d in NZ. >> >> The postcards are unstamped, so there is no narrowing the field down by >> identifying the sovereign's head. >> >> My search continues! >> >> Thanks for your help though. >> >> Elsbeth > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Sandra: if I understand Elsbeth's question correctly; whilst your thought gives a cut-off year, I think that she is really asking if anyone knows between what years or dates the COST to send a POSTCARD was ONE PENNY. That is, with inflation, there might be expected to have been increases in that cost, perhaps to a penny farthing, a penny halfpenny, a penny three farthings, two pence, and so on. I expect that changes in postal rates might have been advertised in public newspapers or in gazetteers, etc. Perhaps NZ has a postal service historical archives somewhere which might contain this detail. HTH: ray in oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Somers" <[email protected]> > Hi Elsbeth > > 1d would be prior to 10th July 1967 when we changed to decimal currency in > NZ ................but how early??!! > > Can you describe the stamp and/or postcard and I'll try to help > > Sandra > Auckland NZ Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 2:49 AM > > Hi! I am trying to date some old postcards from Auckland, and it occurred > to me that this might be possible by the postal charge due on them. I > wondered if anyone can help me. > > The postage required on the is 1d (an old penny) Is there anyone on this > list who can tell me roughly during which years this rate was operational > for postcards. > > Thank you > > Elsbeth

Thanks to Sandra and Ray for their feedback. Yes, Ray, you are correct I am trying to find out between what years the postal rate for a postcard was 1d in NZ. The postcards are unstamped, so there is no narrowing the field down by identifying the sovereign's head. My search continues! Thanks for your help though. Elsbeth

Hi Elsbeth 1d would be prior to 10th July 1967 when we changed to decimal currency in NZ ................but how early??!! Can you describe the stamp and/or postcard and I'll try to help Sandra Auckland NZ @aol.com Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 2:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NZ-AUCKLAND] old postage rates Hi! I am trying to date some old postcards from Auckland, and it occurred to me that this might be possible by the postal charge due on them. I wondered if anyone can help me. The postage required on the is 1d (an old penny) Is there anyone on this list who can tell me roughly during which years this rate was operational for postcards. Thank you Elsbeth ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi! I am trying to date some old postcards from Auckland, and it occurred to me that this might be possible by the postal charge due on them. I wondered if anyone can help me. The postage required on the is 1d (an old penny) Is there anyone on this list who can tell me roughly during which years this rate was operational for postcards. Thank you Elsbeth