Hello members of the NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY mailing list, currently hosted on Rootsweb/Ancestry servers. My name is Peter and I have been the list administrator of this list since it was abandoned. I have no idea when it was abandoned nor who the previous admin was. On 7th January 2020, Rootsweb informed all list admins that they will not be providing any mailing list services after 2nd March 2020, except to keep the archives available (see RW email appended below). In other words, all lists will cease to be. If members want to keep this list active, they will need to host it on a new server. A number of such servers exist, such as groups.io, FaceBook, google groups. I personally do not wish to remain the admin of this list, so one of the members will need to step up as a new administrator if they want to keep this list alive. As a side comment, I think that many of the smaller lists were created on a person's whim in Rootsweb's heyday, and are probably past reviving. I can't remember when the last post to this list was. If there are any questions, please post them to the list, but do it quickly as time is running out quickly. Cheers Peter ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beginning March 2nd, 2020 the Mailing Lists functionality on RootsWeb will be discontinued. Users will no longer be able to send outgoing emails or accept incoming emails.  Additionally, administration tools will no longer be available to list administrators and mailing lists will be put into an archival state. Administrators may save the emails in their list prior to March 2nd. After that, mailing list archives will remain available and searchable on RootsWeb. As an alternative to RootsWeb Mailing Lists, Ancestry message boards are a great option to network with others in the genealogy community. Message boards are available for free with an Ancestry registered account. Thank you for being part of the RootsWeb family and contributing to this community. Sincerely, The RootsWeb team ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello subscribers to the nz-adoption-genealogy mailing list. All Rootsweb mailing lists have been nearly dead for the last two or so years. In February this year, Rootsweb upgraded the software that runs their 30,000 or so mailing lists, and after a few teething problems, the system is now up and running. The archives of past posts are gradually being restored, but this may take months. Subscribers may notice minor differences. The main difference for you is that you can register as a subscriber and then be able to adjust options for how you receive emails (e.g. single posts or digests in plain or MIME format, halt mail while on holidays and a few more things). Or you can leave things as they are. As a reminder, the purpose of this mailing list is  for New Zealanders who have adoption questions related to their family research For questions about the operation of this list, please contact the list administrator at nz-adoption-genealogy-owner@rootsweb.com <mailto:nz-adoption-genealogy-owner@rootsweb.com> To post to this list or respond to a post, use the email address      nz-adoption-genealogy@rootsweb.com Your list is back up so if you want to keep this list active and going, please post your queries or information to the list. Cheers Peter Lakeman Temporary List Admin

Have you looked on the birth microfiche for any likely candidates? You'll find them in genealogy groups and libraries around the country, including the NZ Society of Genealogists' library (called the Family Research Centre or FRC) in Panmure and Auckland Public Library in the city (just trying to think of what might be convenient for you from Remuera). You might get lucky and be able to spot an entry under your mother's surname, but if the baby was adopted out it could well be that the entry is listed under the adopted name, which isn't going to help you. On the other hand, now that you have posted what you know, the person may be looking for information too and find your post in the archives, and then they have your contact details. Good luck! :-) Kind Regards, Wendy Sue Britton said the following on 14/02/2014 1:06 p.m.: > Thanks Ray, but the birth is under the 100 years threshold. > > SUE BRITTON M.B.A. (Dist), A.C.A. > BURSAR > T +64 9 520 7776 | E s.britton@kings.school.nz > > KING'S SCHOOL > 258 Remuera Road Remuera Auckland NZ > Private Bag 28914 Remuera 1541 > T +64 9 520 7770 | F +64 9 520 7771 > www.kings.school.nz > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of The Lewis > family > Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 4:51 p.m. > To: nz-adoption-genealogy@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NZ-ADOPT] looking for child born to May HYDE > > G'day Sue > > You might be able to find out by going to the NZ BMD archives which are > available online at the following URL: > https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Lewis > Hazelmere Western Australia > > On 13/02/2014 11:42 AM, Sue Britton wrote: >> I believe my mother had a child in New Zealand (somewhere in the North >> Island) about 1947. >> >> >> >> Her full name was May Naumai HYDE.

Thanks Ray, but the birth is under the 100 years threshold. SUE BRITTON M.B.A. (Dist), A.C.A. BURSAR T +64 9 520 7776 | E s.britton@kings.school.nz KING'S SCHOOL 258 Remuera Road Remuera Auckland NZ Private Bag 28914 Remuera 1541 T +64 9 520 7770 | F +64 9 520 7771 www.kings.school.nz -----Original Message----- From: nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of The Lewis family Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 4:51 p.m. To: nz-adoption-genealogy@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NZ-ADOPT] looking for child born to May HYDE G'day Sue You might be able to find out by going to the NZ BMD archives which are available online at the following URL: https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/. Hope this helps Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia On 13/02/2014 11:42 AM, Sue Britton wrote: > I believe my mother had a child in New Zealand (somewhere in the North > Island) about 1947. > > > > Her full name was May Naumai HYDE. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I believe my mother had a child in New Zealand (somewhere in the North Island) about 1947. Her full name was May Naumai HYDE. Can anyone point me in the right direction to search please. Thanks Sue

G'day Sue You might be able to find out by going to the NZ BMD archives which are available online at the following URL: https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/. Hope this helps Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia On 13/02/2014 11:42 AM, Sue Britton wrote: > I believe my mother had a child in New Zealand (somewhere in the North > Island) about 1947. > > > > Her full name was May Naumai HYDE.

G'day Frances Beginning at the beginning, do you have a record of Cecil's birth from the NZ BMD registers which are available online at the following URL: https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/. I believe that if you can prove a familial link you may also be able to obtain an adoption birth certificate by contacting the NZ department of Child Youth and Family through their website at http://www.cyf.govt.nz/. However, it is possible that there was no formal adoption process in NZ at that time but that the Samaritan Hospital may have placed your cousin through its own system. Whether the hospital records exist in an archive somewhere I wouldn't know but you might be able to find out at http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ which is an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT records archive site. Please note the capitals because Samaritan Hospital may not have been required to lodge its records as I presume it was a private organisation. A word of caution here as there are a number of people and organisations which may offer help to find your cousin and any descendants. Please be careful! Hope this helps in your research. Raymond V J Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia On 20/10/2013 8:47 AM, Gary and Frances Davey wrote: > I am looking for a child adopted in Christchurch, New Zealand in 1898. Mothers name was Elizabeth Watkins,<snipped>

I am looking for a child adopted in Christchurch, New Zealand in 1898. Mothers name was Elizabeth Watkins, age 21. At birth the boy was named Cecil Valentine Watkins. He was born at the Samaritan home in ChCh on February 10, 1898. Elizabeth was my Grand mother's sister. If anyone has information or suggestions, please contact me. Thank you...Frances

Thank you Carrie i will email her Christine On 29 April 2013 14:05, Carrie <carrie.kim@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > My mum was adopted in timaru around the same time, she was born in 44 and > adopted at two yrs old, also she found her birth parents years later. > She may be able to help you or at least give you some advise in the right > direction. > She may even know your cousin. > > Her name is Jan, her email is > tocusfabs@yahoo.com.au > > Carrie:)e subject and the body of the message > >> > >>

Thank you Les i never thought of that Christine On 29 April 2013 16:44, Les Greer <les.greer@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Hi Christine A lot of babies born in Dec didn`t get registered until Jan > next year. If the baby was born on a Friday night and there were Public > holidays on Monday and Tuesday you can see how it can run into the next > month. The adoption orders would probably been at least three months after > the birth from my experience in the 1960s wishing you luck Les Greer > ubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Christine A lot of babies born in Dec didn`t get registered until Jan next year. If the baby was born on a Friday night and there were Public holidays on Monday and Tuesday you can see how it can run into the next month. The adoption orders would probably been at least three months after the birth from my experience in the 1960s wishing you luck Les Greer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christine Nagel" <nagelchristine87@gmail.com> To: <NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 11:46 AM Subject: [NZ-ADOPT] Birth date > Good morning all my first time on this site. > > My cousin who was adopted in 1946/47 in Timaru died 2 years ago and his > family would like to find out more about his natural parents. > His birthday was always celebrated within the family also his wife and > sons > in Jan. 1947 but on looking into records he was born in Dec.1946. > Is this normal and would the Jan. date be the adoption date. > Thank you for any help. > Christine > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My mum was adopted in timaru around the same time, she was born in 44 and adopted at two yrs old, also she found her birth parents years later. She may be able to help you or at least give you some advise in the right direction. She may even know your cousin. Her name is Jan, her email is tocusfabs@yahoo.com.au Carrie:) Sent from my iPhone On 29/04/2013, at 1:56 PM, Christine Nagel <nagelchristine87@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you Ray will do this > Christine > > On 29 April 2013 12:20, The Lewis family <lewisfamily@iinet.net.au> wrote: > >> G'day Christine >> >> You can get a copy of his original birth certificate from the New >> Zealand authorities but I think it has to be a blood relation, son, >> daughter if the person concerned has died. A copy of the Adoption >> (Birth) certificate is also available. >> >> Hope this helps >> >> Ray Lewis >> Hazelmere Western Australia >> >> On 29/04/2013 7:46 AM, Christine Nagel wrote: >>> Good morning all my first time on this site. >>> >>> My cousin who was adopted in 1946/47 in Timaru died 2 years ago and his >>> family would like to find out more about his natural parents. >>> His birthday was always celebrated within the family also his wife and >> sons >>> in Jan. 1947 but on looking into records he was born in Dec.1946. >>> Is this normal and would the Jan. date be the adoption date. >>> Thank you for any help. >>> Christine >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Ray will do this Christine On 29 April 2013 12:20, The Lewis family <lewisfamily@iinet.net.au> wrote: > G'day Christine > > You can get a copy of his original birth certificate from the New > Zealand authorities but I think it has to be a blood relation, son, > daughter if the person concerned has died. A copy of the Adoption > (Birth) certificate is also available. > > Hope this helps > > Ray Lewis > Hazelmere Western Australia > > On 29/04/2013 7:46 AM, Christine Nagel wrote: > > Good morning all my first time on this site. > > > > My cousin who was adopted in 1946/47 in Timaru died 2 years ago and his > > family would like to find out more about his natural parents. > > His birthday was always celebrated within the family also his wife and > sons > > in Jan. 1947 but on looking into records he was born in Dec.1946. > > Is this normal and would the Jan. date be the adoption date. > > Thank you for any help. > > Christine > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning all my first time on this site. My cousin who was adopted in 1946/47 in Timaru died 2 years ago and his family would like to find out more about his natural parents. His birthday was always celebrated within the family also his wife and sons in Jan. 1947 but on looking into records he was born in Dec.1946. Is this normal and would the Jan. date be the adoption date. Thank you for any help. Christine

G'day Christine You can get a copy of his original birth certificate from the New Zealand authorities but I think it has to be a blood relation, son, daughter if the person concerned has died. A copy of the Adoption (Birth) certificate is also available. Hope this helps Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia On 29/04/2013 7:46 AM, Christine Nagel wrote: > Good morning all my first time on this site. > > My cousin who was adopted in 1946/47 in Timaru died 2 years ago and his > family would like to find out more about his natural parents. > His birthday was always celebrated within the family also his wife and sons > in Jan. 1947 but on looking into records he was born in Dec.1946. > Is this normal and would the Jan. date be the adoption date. > Thank you for any help. > Christine > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Phyllis Maud Shaw was adopted by the Shaw family moving from Kaiapoi to Melbourne about 1892. I assume she was born in New Zealand South Island. Marriage certificate gives her birth date as 9th March 1890. It also states her mother was Maud Foster but no such person has been found. Her father was Dr John Shaw Hayes who lived in Temuka at about this time. His subsequent wife and daughter knew of Phyllis who was brought up by John's cousin's wife in Melbourne as her own. No birth certificate was able to be produced when Phyllis wanted to get married. The story of whom Phyllis's mother was, vary between the members of the family and of cause none of that generation are still alive. Possibilities are The maid who could not keep the child. The girl friend who found herself expecting before they had time to get married and who died soon after child birth. And the way-would daughter of the cousin who was packed off to England to start again and the kindly cousin's wife who took the child in was really the grandmother. I have searched the NZ birth records without a likely match. I have searched the NZ death records without a likely mother's death. The Dr and his wife did call to Melbourne in 1893 on the way back to NZ from Ireland. Was this to visit the child or to pay for the child's care or to deliver the child from somewhere else? I was wondering if anyone would have any idea of where else I should look for an identification of Phyllis's mother? Or a birth details? Della Palmer

Dear Margaret, Sorry, she was born 1932 not 1952 (LOL)! My OBC has the Court note about the adoption on it. I was referring to the Maternity Home records - assuming basic medical stuff and maybe social stuff like info. about her parents and perhaps my father. I doubt if anything survived from Redroofs after it closed in 1973 unless it was sent up to the Bethany system. I have all the info. the Adult Adoption Office can provide - I was just hoping that someone out there might have a clue about who my father might have been. Even with only one parent I've been able to construct a huge and fascinating Family Tree!! My half- brothers and sisters know hardly anything about their ancestry and are next to useless about info. on even their maternal aunts whom I'm hoping may have info. about their sister's boyfriends. Thank for replying to my post. Cheers, Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: <nz-adoption-genealogy-request@rootsweb.com> To: <nz-adoption-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 10:00 AM Subject: NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 (LIZ STANLEY) > 2. Re: Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 (Margaret Armstrong) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 13:52:13 +0300 > From: "LIZ STANLEY" <estanley@otenet.gr> > Subject: [NZ-ADOPT] Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 > To: <NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <B58EB7ADEE07495C885AED8CF8D1D615@lizav68myypwz4> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" > > Dear listers, > I was born Diane Wendy KENNEDY at "Redroofs" Dunedin on 10 May 1951 and > adopted out as Christine Elizabeth CUTLER in JAN 1952. I have obtained my > original Birth Certificate but only my mother is mentioned: Joan Mary > KENNEDY born 18 SEP 1952 in Dunedin. She is still alive but denying my > existence to her other 8 !! children. I can't understand why she didn't > just put a veto in place with the Adoption Agency if she didn't want to > have anything to do with me. Apparently there was no Adoption file but > these didn't come in till the early 60s. When "Redroofs" closed in 1973 > records were just left lying around under the stairs!! So much for > privacy. > Obviously I am looking for some clue to my father!! > Cheers, > Liz Stanley > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 23:24:37 +1200 > From: "Margaret Armstrong" <margaret@megadyne.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [NZ-ADOPT] Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 > To: <nz-adoption-genealogy@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000001cd6020$ef805f40$ce811dc0$@co.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Liz > > I doubt that I can help but your email is a little puzzling. You say you > were born in May 1951 and adopted out in Jan 1952 and your birth mother > was > born Sep 1952 - after you were born??? > > You said that there were no Adoption Files as they didn't come in until > the > early 60's. Were you referring to the Adoption records from Redroofs? I > was of the understanding that all adoptions went through the Courts and I > have one dated 1896 that went through the Magistrates Court in > Christchurch. > > Do you knows if the records from Redroofs have survived? > > The Registrar-General at Births, Deaths & Marriages in Wellington holds > all > adoption records. I was able to get photocopies of the court record, > affidavit etc but because yours is so recent that may not be an option. > > However, do get back to me with more info and I may be able to guide you > along but I doubt that the father's name will be shown. There was no > father > named on the one I have. > > Regards > Margaret Armstrong (Auckland, NZ) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LIZ > STANLEY > Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 10:52 p.m. > To: NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY@rootsweb.com > Subject: [NZ-ADOPT] Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 > > Dear listers, > I was born Diane Wendy KENNEDY at "Redroofs" Dunedin on 10 May 1951 and > adopted out as Christine Elizabeth CUTLER in JAN 1952. I have obtained my > original Birth Certificate but only my mother is mentioned: Joan Mary > KENNEDY born 18 SEP 1952 in Dunedin. She is still alive but denying my > existence to her other 8 !! children. I can't understand why she didn't > just > put a veto in place with the Adoption Agency if she didn't want to have > anything to do with me. Apparently there was no Adoption file but these > didn't come in till the early 60s. When "Redroofs" closed in 1973 records > were just left lying around under the stairs!! So much for privacy. > Obviously I am looking for some clue to my father!! > Cheers, > Liz Stanley > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY list administrator, send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY mailing list, send an email > to NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3 > *************************************************** >

Hi Liz I doubt that I can help but your email is a little puzzling. You say you were born in May 1951 and adopted out in Jan 1952 and your birth mother was born Sep 1952 - after you were born??? You said that there were no Adoption Files as they didn't come in until the early 60's. Were you referring to the Adoption records from Redroofs? I was of the understanding that all adoptions went through the Courts and I have one dated 1896 that went through the Magistrates Court in Christchurch. Do you knows if the records from Redroofs have survived? The Registrar-General at Births, Deaths & Marriages in Wellington holds all adoption records. I was able to get photocopies of the court record, affidavit etc but because yours is so recent that may not be an option. However, do get back to me with more info and I may be able to guide you along but I doubt that the father's name will be shown. There was no father named on the one I have. Regards Margaret Armstrong (Auckland, NZ) -----Original Message----- From: nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nz-adoption-genealogy-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LIZ STANLEY Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012 10:52 p.m. To: NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY@rootsweb.com Subject: [NZ-ADOPT] Dianne Wendy KENNEDY adopted Jan 1952 Dear listers, I was born Diane Wendy KENNEDY at "Redroofs" Dunedin on 10 May 1951 and adopted out as Christine Elizabeth CUTLER in JAN 1952. I have obtained my original Birth Certificate but only my mother is mentioned: Joan Mary KENNEDY born 18 SEP 1952 in Dunedin. She is still alive but denying my existence to her other 8 !! children. I can't understand why she didn't just put a veto in place with the Adoption Agency if she didn't want to have anything to do with me. Apparently there was no Adoption file but these didn't come in till the early 60s. When "Redroofs" closed in 1973 records were just left lying around under the stairs!! So much for privacy. Obviously I am looking for some clue to my father!! Cheers, Liz Stanley ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NZ-ADOPTION-GENEALOGY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear listers, I was born Diane Wendy KENNEDY at "Redroofs" Dunedin on 10 May 1951 and adopted out as Christine Elizabeth CUTLER in JAN 1952. I have obtained my original Birth Certificate but only my mother is mentioned: Joan Mary KENNEDY born 18 SEP 1952 in Dunedin. She is still alive but denying my existence to her other 8 !! children. I can't understand why she didn't just put a veto in place with the Adoption Agency if she didn't want to have anything to do with me. Apparently there was no Adoption file but these didn't come in till the early 60s. When "Redroofs" closed in 1973 records were just left lying around under the stairs!! So much for privacy. Obviously I am looking for some clue to my father!! Cheers, Liz Stanley

G'day again everybody Firstly, thanks to Wendy and Mike for their prompt and helpful replies to my request for help. As you will realise New Zealand is "terra incognita" for me as far as genealogy is concerned. However, I am no longer surprised at the disdain with which conception and birth outside marriage was greeted both in Australia and New Zealand. Recent television programs have highlighted what Australia forced unmarried mothers to undergo immediately after giving birth as late as forty years ago. It looks like New Zealand had the same attitude. I will follow the leads which Wendy and Mike have supplied. If I knew more, my wife and I could take another holiday in New Zealand and visit the various places to carry out the necessary research. We would get another chance to see some of the natural beauty and dependent upon where the research led get to see places that we hadn't seen before. Perhaps a lottery win would be the solution. Regards and Best Wishes Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia