Thanks, Cliff. My ex husband spoke fluent German (Swabish dialect ....which I've probably spelled wrong) and I also had a girlfriend who came over from Germany in 1954. I was a bridesmaid at her wedding and she called her veil a wail...along with other V/W pronunciations that were completely foreign to our ears. That's why it came to mind in this discussion. When I was growing up in the 40s and 50s in Pawling many of my peers had parents who spoke NO English. We had a lot of Italian families in Pawling at that time. The kids learned English quickly in school and translated for the parents. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Lamere" <clifflamere@nycap.rr.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:10 AM Subject: [NYWESTCH] Ramblings about Dutch > Maureen asked if the Dutch pronounce their W like a V as the Germans do. > > On another mailing list, someone had written that the sounds were not > identical in the two languages. I have a Dutch friend named Willem who > was a teacher, so I asked him that same question a few years ago. Their > pronunciation is as a VW, he said. > > To say the English letter V, as in veal, we start a 'hum' then push the > bottom lip away from the teeth while saying an EE sound. The V can come > in front of other vowels as in vat or vine. To make the VW sound you > should pick a vowel sound to use with it. To say Will as VWill, you > would put your teeth on the top of your bottom lip and start to 'hum' > the first part of the V sound. Then push the lips away from the teeth > while saying a WI sound. > > A few years ago I spent a lot of time writing a webpage on how Americans > would pronounce Dutch words, especially names. Although I can pronounce > German rather well, I do not know Dutch pronunciation. At various > times, I asked four Dutch speaking people to pronounce some words for > me. I could not put on paper what I was hearing, so I abandoned the > project when it was about 95% complete. > > I thought it would be useful for genealogists to realize that Catarina, > Catharina, Cataryna, and Catherine would have all been pronounced the > same by a Dutch person (COT-uh-REE-nuh), and therefore they could be > thought of as all the same name when sorting through records looking for > an ancestor. The early spelling variations were frequently created by > the person writing down the name, and what was written depended on that > person's education and primary language (English, Dutch, German). > > The Albany area of New York State was settled by the Dutch in the early > 1600s. Surprisingly, Dutch was still spoken in many Albany homes after > 1800, and business was still conducted in Dutch in 1800, although I > think that government business was entirely in English. > > The Dutch language did not survive as long in Westchester County. > Albany was much more isolated from New York City where the English had > the greatest influence. Albany's isolation was due to the fact that > there were no roads between the cities for a very long time. Traffic > and trade was by sail boat which was impossible in Winter and slow > during the other seasons. The portion of the Hudson River between the > cities is tidal, which causes the water to travel toward NYC part of the > day (falling tide), then flow back toward Albany later (rising tide). > It is not like a normal river where you could expect the flow to take > the boat downstream. The back flow toward Albany is a real benefit when > sailing in that direction, of course. > > The isolation meant that the Dutch language could flourish in the Albany > area. The Reformed church records were in Dutch for a long time. > Reformed church sermons were in Dutch even after 1800 in Albany. In > 1815 in two Reformed Churches in Albany, there was a need for two > sermons each Sunday, one in Dutch and one in English. > > For genealogical research in the Albany area, it would be helpful to > know how the Dutch pronounced names. For example, if an English woman > married a Dutch man and got married in a Reformed Church, her name could > be spelled in a Dutch way in the marriage register, but the > pronunciation of the name would be the same for the Dutch writer/scribe > as it was for the English woman. Spelling differences may not be as > important as they first seem. > > Cliff Lamere > > > > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message