Sue--- You have very well summed up a lot about our times. I think it will take more than a natural pendulum swing to get things back on track. 9-11 worked quite well for a few days in attempting to start things moving back to some level or normalcy. But, people forget too quickly. I live in CA and I don't think that most people here even are concerned about what happened in NYC, Pentagon, and PA in September 2001. It may take a cataclysmic event to restore humanity back to where it was in earlier times. George Hoyt in CA ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

The more I read your emails the more I realize that Westchester must be Dutch haven! All of those Dutch names- wow. Do any of you connect with Leggetts? Sue

My Wards were shipbuilders. There are photos of several of the early Wards and the ships they built at the Ossining Historical Society. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Maxwell" <suemaxwell@comcast.net> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] family history and world history > In one line I have ship captains; also their descendants love to live on > coastal areas and love water activities, even today. If you read world > history, you find out the the name Swain was introduced into the British > Isles by the Danish Vikings. I always wondered why my grandmother loved > fishing so much; I have tons of photos of her parents fishing, boating, > sailing etc. My uncle, one of her sons, wants to build a boat and sail out > of NYC. His gg grandfather sailed into NYC on a boat as a ship captain- > the circle goes around! > > Also, I think of the courage of our ancestors, way back, who kept looking > for better circumstances, and kept moving west and finally came here- a > real sacrifice for many- some were not content with what they had- some > today want to improve life in other ways, also. Always wanting to make > life better. > > Sue > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sue, Thank you for your beautifully written reasons for the drastic changes we see in our society today! Hopefully the pendulum will swing back one day soon to healthier times. Jean ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

would the man that asked me to read about a historical personage and compare him with Washington, please contact me- I just spent the entire afternoon deleting emails and can't find his- probably because the title doesn't give a hint- thanks- Sue

Yes, Judy, I agree. I spend many hours on my computer, but not on the internet. It is on my e-mail in list such as this one where I have met many wonderful cousins and friends, and engaged in fascinating conversations, both of this sort and sharing information to solve a genealogical problem. Barbara Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: "WOLF6PACK@aol.com" <WOLF6PACK@aol.com> To: nywestch@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2007 3:50:38 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Early records In a message dated 9/2/2007 1:04:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GWGEHoyt@aol.com writes: I would speculate that I have found less than 10% of my genealogy needs on the internet exactly, but what I have found are some of the nicest distant cousins a person could ever wish to have and some very wonderful new friends and fellow researchers. Regina & I were just chatting this week about how we met in person a long time ago after helping a couple from England with their research when they came to visit the places we had located for them. Judy Wolf ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour *************************************** Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ *************************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm with Judy and George. I fid very little genealogy on the internet. For that matter, I am not overly impressed with researching at the FHL, although I still go there. Although the microfilms are wonderful, I would rather find the original records in person, and am terribly upset that so many are only available on microfilm. At least a microfilm of an original record is a good source. I am such a purist that I really dislike abstracts of deeds and wills. I would much rather have trasncriptions, or at the very least lenghty extracts. Even the boilerplate language used often tells something about the transaction that is totally lacking in an abstract. I spend all the time I can on weekdays at county clerks and Surrogates offices copying the deed and will books, then transcribing them when I come home. I don't get nearly the time I would like as those are work days, but I take every little bit of time available. For example, I have had to be in New York County Surrogate's Court a lot lately so when I go I take as much extra time as I can to go downstairs to the archives, even if it is only half an hour. When I am lucky, I can squeeze in half a day, being there already. Today I spent in a family cemetery transcribing tombstones (I'm feeling sunburnt). I have tombstones photgraphed from all over the place. I take my laptop and my digital camera, and transcribe directly onto the laptop. I map the part of the cemetery I am transcribing, or the section where the particular stones are located if only doing selected ones, and photograph each one. What I need is to figure out how to use my GPS to mark the graves. Now I do a lot of measuring. My cemetery kit--always in my car--contains a 100 ft tape measure and one of the old-fashioned folded wooden ones for when I have no help to hold the tape. By always checking out what I find on the internet or in printed genealogies, I have found many errors, most printed over and over as they are copied repeatedly without anyone checking the accuracy of the statements. The fun then is to first prove the error, and then determine and prove the correct information. Yes, Judy and George, there is no substitute for good field work. It is not only more accurate, but it gives you a tremendous high when you finally find that tombstone, or that birth record, or whatever. I recently saw a transcription of Newtown, Connecticut old records. I had been to the town hall there and had seen and copied the records for myself. The translation did them no justice. All nicely typed out was no substitute for the original handwritten copies with entries all over the pages, often rather helter-skelter. I didn't mean to get on such a soap-box; you just hit on one of my pet topics. Barbara Barbara L. de Mare, Esq. Historian, genealogist and attorney 155 Polifly Road Hackensack, New Jersey 07601 (201) 567-9440 office BarbaradeMare@yahoo.com (home) http://historygenealogyesq.blogspot.com/ ----- Original Message ---- From: "GWGEHoyt@aol.com" <GWGEHoyt@aol.com> To: nywestch@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 2, 2007 1:03:02 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Early records Friends-- I agree with Judy. You cannot expect to find all of your genealogy on the internet. It still takes the in-person on-site effort of looking at gravestones, old newspapers, etc., which are not available on the internet. I would speculate that I have found less than 10% of my genealogy needs on the internet. George ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour *************************************** Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ *************************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

George- I am afraid that I agree- it will take something cataclysmic. But I also know that there are people who are aware and are preparing. But the majority of the population will be unprepared. That has happened more than once in history- in one day, powerful civilizations can totally disappear from off the face of the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps we have gotten to proud, as did others in the past. A book I am really struggling to read ( the most difficult one I ever read) called "The Fourth Turning," was written in 1997. It talks about repeating cycles in history that allow you to see where you are in your present cycle. The cycle is broken up into four periods spanning a long generation of about 80-100 years: Founding, Awakening, Unraveling, Crises. When they wrote it they said, "America is unraveling." They also said, based upon former cycles, that before 2005, there would be a cataclysmic event that would throw us into the Crises period. And after 9/11, here we are waiting to see what the real crises will be- a crises has to be of such consequence that it causes the society to rearrange things so that it won't occurr again- to have to find a solution. The book is extremely complex, and i can't wait to get to the end and go on to something else. I don't agree with all they say, but it is really fascinating to see them compare cyclic periods. The predicted that the upcoming major crises event would occur around or before 2025, and would be the worst this country experienced, and that it COULD be an opportunity to turn things around for the better- or a total disaster. I prefer to think that we can prepare to make things better. And what is going on, can not last, as it is all self destructive- all of the problems we are facing will eventually burn out, because they are so destructive that we will either self destruct as a society or we will regroup and reorder ourselves in the right way. Sue

I think I am on too many lists- my email is getting confusing looking! It is hard to keep up with all of them, yet all is so interesting. I am rewording the survey just a bit, so that there are no questions that can be answered with just a yes or no. I will put it on, occasionally, so that new people can respond if they wish. I have really appreciated your responses, for even though I am at the beginning of my degree in history, I want to know what the end will be, as I read. I have the schools agreement to let me emphasize family history, and as I have thought about it I thought so much about the process and what occurs- it is just amazing. So here goes. 1)How did you become interested in doing family history? 2)Has your involvement increased your interest in history? If so, in what way? 3) Has your study of ancestors, or historical figures of their times inspired you to be a better person in any way? Please explain, if you desire. 4) Are others in your family interested in your research? Do you have anyone to pass your research on to after you can no longer do it? If not, what will you do about that? 5) Have any family projects developed out of your involvement with research? Please explain.. 6) Have you used this vehicle to improve your self, family, community, or any other area? If so, please explain. 7) How has this increased your understanding of the importance of history? 8)How has this increased your understanding of your place in the family, in the community and in history? 9) Have you become more patriotic, more aware of the original purposes of our countries founding? If so, in what ways. 10) Has your interest in reading about history, or any subjects related to your research increased, and in what ways? 11) Do you have a sense of being the family historian? Do you feel that this is a real role that is of equal value as other roles in society? How do you see your role as a valuable contribution? 12) What methods do you use to record your history? 13) Have any hobbieds developed as a result? What kind? Do you emphasize certain types of history or certain time periods- have you become a specialist in any way?. 14)Will you contribute your research, in any way, to public historical knowledge? Please explain 15) What kinds of projects have developed as a result of your efforts? 16) Have you discovered new historical information, or been able to add to or correct historical information in anyway? Please explain. 17) How would you respond to what Emerson said:"There is no history, only biography?" Thanks bunches to any of you who are willing to answer the questions- Sue

http://www.h-net.org/lists/ This is the main website for the Univ. of Michigan lists. If yuo scroll down, you will see a long list of subjects. Click on H-Connecticut or any of them. You will see the most recent messages. Over on the left of the page is the discussion logs...and a way to susbcribe. I found the Ct. and NJ lists fascinating. I don't contribute much anymore...just ask questions but I read them all. Deb Ed Maul <rowdyrebel@optonline.net> wrote: Hi, Don't know about the history lists you mention. Can you send the HTTP's. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Hanna" To: Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:46 AM Subject: [NYWESTCH] family history vs world history effect of one on the other ideas anyone > I am looking forward to a good, intellectual discussion of family history vs world history...I would like to hear what other folks think about the relationship between world or local history and their family history. How did one affect the other? Can you see any themes or ideas from generation to generation? I have seen several .........religion for one is a continuing theme...the evolution within the family or the abrupt changes from generation to generation...and what was happening to churches in America in the 1600 and 1700s.... > You all know, I assume, about the history listserves on H-net...one is from Ct., another from New Jersey....they are there for free lance, professional and other history buffs, to share ideas about history and family....they are also a great resource for information...and idea...... > Deb H. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message *************************************** Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ *************************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

In a message dated 9/2/2007 1:04:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GWGEHoyt@aol.com writes: I would speculate that I have found less than 10% of my genealogy needs on the internet exactly, but what I have found are some of the nicest distant cousins a person could ever wish to have and some very wonderful new friends and fellow researchers. Regina & I were just chatting this week about how we met in person a long time ago after helping a couple from England with their research when they came to visit the places we had located for them. Judy Wolf ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Maybe there are a number of reasons our society is on a destructive path: the breakup of the family and the loss of spiritual values being first on my list; the use of manipulative "images" in advertising ( which started in the late 1800's), the invention of education as needing to be entertaining; the loss of good quality basic subjects in school that are a challenge to a young person; the denigration of our country's heros and founders; and the mixing of boys and girls together in classes creating an interest in relationships too early; the advent of peer group values replacing family relationships and values; the loss of respect for just about everything including oneself; the loss of spiritual values replaced by humanistic values; violence and sex on tv and the computer and the newspaper and the magazies- every place you look it is there.There are so many reasons, and like you say- we are fortunate that there are some children who have not fallen into these traps. But even with the best young people, I find that the way they dress is disturbing and indicative of peer group influence, emphasis on the body rather than what you are inside, and the effect of the media on this generation. I am sick of looking at bodies with either not much on them or sloppy trashy clothing and bluejeans. I know alot of people like bluejeans, but after living in two other countries besides this one, I feel like I am looking at a Chineese Communist commune uniform- everyone wears them- no variety- everyone dresses the same- blujeans and teeshirts.( I was the same way growing up, and my grandmother used to say- set your own style- because she came out of an era where they did- and i thought it was crazy- but now I wear what I like, whether it is the style or not) Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: <GonyaJL@aol.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] family history vs world history effect of one on theother ide... >I say "Amen" to George's comments! > > Eons ago I was an elementary school teacher and although it was hard work, > it was most gratifying! The children in those days were generally eager > to > listen, to follow directions and to learn. They were on the most part > polite, > and they had respect for teachers and their parents. > > Today my daughter teaches High School English - she loves her Advanced > Placement students, but the others (majority) are a sad and pitiful lot! > They > have absolutely no incentive to do anything other than disrupt the class, > defy > their teachers, and skip school. They don't connect their future with > what > they are not learning today! Why? Too many parents don't care either -- > entertainment is the name of the game! Scary to think these kids are our > future > (thank God there are a lot of good ones, though!) How has this all come > about? Please tell me! > What ever happened to the CCC and the WPA? I believe those organizations > gathered up many people who were not making it and put them to work. > They > learned good work habits, discipline, clean, healthy living and got paid > for it! > A good deal! > > Jean > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In one line I have ship captains; also their descendants love to live on coastal areas and love water activities, even today. If you read world history, you find out the the name Swain was introduced into the British Isles by the Danish Vikings. I always wondered why my grandmother loved fishing so much; I have tons of photos of her parents fishing, boating, sailing etc. My uncle, one of her sons, wants to build a boat and sail out of NYC. His gg grandfather sailed into NYC on a boat as a ship captain- the circle goes around! Also, I think of the courage of our ancestors, way back, who kept looking for better circumstances, and kept moving west and finally came here- a real sacrifice for many- some were not content with what they had- some today want to improve life in other ways, also. Always wanting to make life better. Sue

Westchester County Genealogical Society (NY) Upcoming Meeting MEETING NOTICE The first meeting of the 25th year of the Westchester County Genealogical Society will be “History of the Catholic Church in NY – 200th Anniversary” a talk by the Msgr. Thomas J. Shelley Ph.D. on Saturday, September 8, 2007 at 10am. Msgr. Shelley is a Catholic priest of Archdiocese of NY and a Professor of Historical Theology at Fordham University. He also teaches Church History at Saint John Neumann Residence. Msgr. Shelley is the author of many books, including Dunwoodie: The History of St. Joseph’s Seminary, The History of the Archdiocese of New York, Greenwich Village Catholics: St. Joseph's Church, 1829-2002, and Empire State Catholics. MEETING INFO: WHEN: Saturday, SEPTEMBER 8, 2007 @ 10 a.m. WHERE: Aldersgate Methodist Church, 600 Broadway in Dobbs Ferry (across from Mercy College on route 9) Guests are always welcome. There will be refreshments and genealogical networking starting at 9:30am. For information about Westchester County Genealogical Society (Westchester Connection or Surname List), visit WCGS home page -- _http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywcgs/_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywcgs/) RESERVED THESE DATES FOR WCGS Future Meetings Oct 13, 2007 Researching Family Roots and DNA Elizabeth M. Macfarlane Nov 10, 2007 Crossing the Ocean with the Internet Leslie Huber Dec 8, 2007 Holiday Party – Special Interest Groups / Study Group Meeting Jan 12, 2008 Women of the House (Co-sponsored by Friends of Philipse Manor Hall) *** Meeting to take place at Philipse Manor Hall, 29 Warburton Ave, Yonkers Jean Zimmerman Feb 9, 2008 Identifying Photos from Costumes *** Meeting to take place at Yorktown Community& Cultural Center, 1974 Commerce Street, Yorktown Heights, 914-962-2970 Laura Lee Keating Mar 8, 2008 The Trail Our Ancestors Followed in Becoming Citizens Joseph Lieby Apr 12, 2008 Every Age Has a Story to Tell Peter Savigny from Heirloom Biography May 10, 2008 The Story of Sybil Ludington - American Revolutionary War Hero – the Female Paul Revere Vincent D'Aquino June 14, 2008 An Object of Great Importance: The Hudson River During the American War for Independence Christopher DiPasquale ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

I say "Amen" to George's comments! Eons ago I was an elementary school teacher and although it was hard work, it was most gratifying! The children in those days were generally eager to listen, to follow directions and to learn. They were on the most part polite, and they had respect for teachers and their parents. Today my daughter teaches High School English - she loves her Advanced Placement students, but the others (majority) are a sad and pitiful lot! They have absolutely no incentive to do anything other than disrupt the class, defy their teachers, and skip school. They don't connect their future with what they are not learning today! Why? Too many parents don't care either -- entertainment is the name of the game! Scary to think these kids are our future (thank God there are a lot of good ones, though!) How has this all come about? Please tell me! What ever happened to the CCC and the WPA? I believe those organizations gathered up many people who were not making it and put them to work. They learned good work habits, discipline, clean, healthy living and got paid for it! A good deal! Jean ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

George -- You had nothing to do with what your ancestors did! Each and every family is a cross-section of the fabric of humanity. We all have those we are proud of and those who we are not proud of -- the leaders and the followers, the intelligent and the stupid, those whom everyone admired and loved, and those we wish we could eliminate from our records. One of my ancestors was a murderer, but I found it fun to learn about a grandmother who collected husbands and diamond rings! My husband was appalled when I informed him that his paternal great grandparents had never married! He also had a great uncle who deserted from the Union Army during the Civil War! Horrors! My mother-in-law never mentioned her sister who died in a mental institution -- she was ashamed of her! That about blew me away! I would have loved the poor woman and kept her memory alive! Well, such is the way of the human race! We never know what we are going to find in delving into family history, but your family is no different from any others! Jean ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Friends-- I agree with Judy. You cannot expect to find all of your genealogy on the internet. It still takes the in-person on-site effort of looking at gravestones, old newspapers, etc., which are not available on the internet. I would speculate that I have found less than 10% of my genealogy needs on the internet. George ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Friends, In the past there was the concept of self-reliance. (Work or Starve). This concept has changed dramatically in recent years. Today, too many people rely on the government for help. It used to be the responsibilities of churches or families. (My parents and my aunts/uncles helped my grandparents when they needed it.) I believe this is a major change today from the attitude of people in the past. Secondly, a theme of Christianity throughout most of the people prevailed in earlier times. While there may have been differences between the Congregationalists, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc., there was the common thread of Jesus Christ and the Bible. So, while they were different from each other, in many respects they were also the same !!! George ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

Thanks, George.......and thanks to Jean too. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: <GWGEHoyt@aol.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] family historians > Maureen-- > AMEN..... > George > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the > all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Placing marriage and death notices in newspapers was more prevalent in the early/mid 1800s, and especially decent (those with information we want and need) obits became more popular during the Civil War. In the 1700s I have felt like I hit the jackpot if I found any mention of individuals having died at all. You might find a mention so and so died last week, last month in a newspaper IF you are lucky. Don't forget, paper was a precious commodity in those early years. That includes my research efforts in newspapers from Dutchess, Putnam, Westchester, Orange and Ulster Counties. Wills and deeds are a better bet for finding that information for earlier individuals, or church records if they survived, floods, fires, being misplaced or from the ravages of the Revolutionary War, many times churches abruptly closed as Ministers fled, records vanished. Methodist Ministers rode circuits so those records could easily be lost or be in other churches that they ministered at, written down as the Minister found time to record it. Folks also traveled to the church where they knew the Minister would be on a certain date to have whatever service they needed performed. People might also travel to other relatives' homes in other towns or counties to use a Minister there. I have been to almost every church in the Peekskill area and done lengthy research in their record books. I have seen the same people show up not only in the different churches of the same denomination, but jumping back and forth between other religions. I have seen notes saying what church they removed to or came from, even mentions of a dislike of the pew they were assigned. Some may not like a certain preacher or had been reprimanded by their church for something they had done. Or they could have moved to a new residence and another church was more convenient than walking across town to attend services. This is why everyone must realize you will not find all you need on the Internet. There are times you must do onsite research or hire someone to do it. I have traveled all over New York State, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania and West Virginia to do research. Still on my onsite research to do list is Kansas, Ireland, Germany and Italy. Judy Wolf ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour