Westchester County Genealogical Society (NY) Upcoming Meeting Hope you can make it to the Westchester County Genealogical Society (WCGS) Upcoming Meeting! It will be this coming Saturday at the Aldersgate Memorial United Methodist Church. The Westchester County Genealogical Society is please to present “The Story of the Standard House of Peekskill” a talk by Katharina Cerreta. Katharina Cerreta along with her husband Rick Cerreta purchased the Standard House in December of 1998 and finished restoration in 2000. The structure was built around 1855 and was used as a boarding house, tavern, and restaurant over the years. In 1998, it was an abandoned building on Peekskill’s riverfront and home to vagrants and vermin. In 2000, The Standard House was listed on the National Register of Historic Places and became Peekskill’s 1st local landmark in 2001. The meeting will be held at the Aldersgate Methodist Church, 600 Broadway in Dobbs Ferry (across from Mercy College on route 9). Guests are welcome ($3 donation is requested). There will be refreshments and genealogical networking starting at 9:30am. The meeting will be held at: When: Saturday, February 10, 2007 @ 10 a.m. Where: Aldersgate Memorial United Methodist Church, 600 Broadway (route 9), Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA – plenty of free parking For information about Westchester County Genealogical Society (Westchester Connection or Surname List), visit WCGS home page -- http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywcgs/ RESERVED THESE DATES FOR WCGS Future Meetings Mar 10, 2007 Ireland’s Forgotten Heroes: A Look at Ireland’s World War I Soldiers Tom Phelan Apr 14, 2007 Preserving Your Family’s Memories on DVD* at Grinton I. Will Library, 1500 Central Park Ave, Yonkers, NY Risa Neuwirth - LifeStory Productions May 12, 2007 Italian Immigration through the Ports of New York and New Orleans E.P. Vallone June 9, 2007 Incorporating Memoirs into Fiction Edith Glass

Bruce, There didn't seem to be anything here. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce A. Sherwood Sr." <keukakid16522@pngusa.net> To: <NYWESTCH@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 6:57 AM Subject: [NYWESTCH] The Scarsdale Inquirer, 11 Oct 1946 > Hi List, > > This is pages 9 - 20. Anyone requesting it may have it. I would ask that > articles be transcribed , or made available to the list. > > Bruce A. Sherwood , Sr. > keukakid16522@pngusa.net > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have you tried looking in New Brunswick, Canada? I found some STAPLES who received land grants in 1788, Christian names include: Francis, Henry & Thomas. Land grants were in the county of York, New Brunswick. The names on the list appear to be Loyalist surnames Also found some STAPLES in Saint John County in the 1860s-1890s. Also, Early Connecticut Marriages (prior to 1800) http://www.rays-place.com/marrage/fairfield-1st-cong.htm Debby -----Original Message----- From: nywestch-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nywestch-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of GENEAL Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:22 PM To: nywestch@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] GEOGRAPHY EXPERT I am trying to trace the lineage of William J Staples who died in NYC in 1883. His obit. reads born in New Rochelle. I have found the death of one son, identified his wife (Hannah) and established that he had 4 other children. Have not been able to identify his parents, which I need to connect him to my family line. The only people I have found in Westchester are a Jesse in S.Salem (1820), an Aaron and a Thaddeus in S Salem (1830) and an Aaron in West Chester and a Turner in Lewisboro (1840). My Staples lines came from Fairfield, CT thru Ulster County, NY. I do have some Thaddeus names in my line. Bill Staples ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rootsberggreen@aol.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] GEOGRAPHY EXPERT > What surname are you researching? > > Also, in 1820 there were also at least two > villages/communities/neighborhoods called Westchester, > one of which was in the Bromx. NY. > > Dan of Pennsylvania, USA > > --------------------------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ---------------------- > Need help on town identification in Westchester. In 1810-20-30 era. > Obituary > lists birthplace as New Rochelle in 1808. Only one person by this surname > in > Westchester in 1820 census but listed in South Salem. None in 1810 or > 1830. Any > possibility that these could be the same place due to name changes during > this period ? > > Thanks for any help, > > Bill Staples > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ *************************************** ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, This is pages 9 - 20. Anyone requesting it may have it. I would ask that articles be transcribed , or made available to the list. Bruce A. Sherwood , Sr. keukakid16522@pngusa.net

Bill I have a listing in the "History of the town of Lewisboro" book for a THADDEUS STAPLES 1785-1841. He is buried in the REYNOLDS CEM. in Cross River..That is the only bit of info. I see... hope it helpful..Sandee from NH

Hi Bill, Have you had the chance to view a present day map? That would give you the general idea of where these locales are. In 1883, the Bronx itself did not exist. Generally, the northern/eastern section was considered Westhcester County, and the southern/western section was part of Manhattan. South Salem is in the NE corner of Westchester, bordering CT. Lewisboro is south and slightly west of that. New Rochelle is again south and slightly west of that, and borders the LI Sound. The comparison of these three areas would be like a line traveling to 7pm. West Chester...never heard the term outside of PA. Barb S-GENEAL@comcast.net writes: > I am trying to trace the lineage of William J Staples who died in NYC in > 1883. His obit. reads born in New Rochelle. I have found the death of one > son, identified his wife (Hannah) and established that he had 4 other > children. Have not been able to identify his parents, which I need to > connect him to my family line. The only people I have found in Westchester > are a Jesse in S.Salem (1820), an Aaron and a Thaddeus in S Salem (1830) and > > an Aaron in West Chester and a Turner in Lewisboro (1840). My Staples lines > came from Fairfield, CT thru Ulster County, NY. I do have some Thaddeus > names in my line. > > Bill Staples

I am trying to trace the lineage of William J Staples who died in NYC in 1883. His obit. reads born in New Rochelle. I have found the death of one son, identified his wife (Hannah) and established that he had 4 other children. Have not been able to identify his parents, which I need to connect him to my family line. The only people I have found in Westchester are a Jesse in S.Salem (1820), an Aaron and a Thaddeus in S Salem (1830) and an Aaron in West Chester and a Turner in Lewisboro (1840). My Staples lines came from Fairfield, CT thru Ulster County, NY. I do have some Thaddeus names in my line. Bill Staples ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rootsberggreen@aol.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] GEOGRAPHY EXPERT > What surname are you researching? > > Also, in 1820 there were also at least two > villages/communities/neighborhoods called Westchester, > one of which was in the Bromx. NY. > > Dan of Pennsylvania, USA > > --------------------------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ---------------------- > Need help on town identification in Westchester. In 1810-20-30 era. > Obituary > lists birthplace as New Rochelle in 1808. Only one person by this surname > in > Westchester in 1820 census but listed in South Salem. None in 1810 or > 1830. Any > possibility that these could be the same place due to name changes during > this period ? > > Thanks for any help, > > Bill Staples > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Judy - Thanks for the leads. I believe the minister's name was Rogers, but have not been able to find it in my notes. I'll make a point of noting it when I next go back to the FHL to look at my films some more. I have written a query to the Presbyterian Archives in Philadelphia. They have acknowledged my query and tell me it'll be 4-6 weeks for an answer. For those who don't know, the URL for the Presbyterian Archives is http://www.history.pcusa.org/contact/ I found The Journal of the Reverend Silas Constant on HeritageQuest and found it quite interesting. It didn't give me the marriage date I'm seeking, apparently because Rev. Constant came upon the scene a year or two after my two subjects were supposed to have been married. However, it did confirm several marriage dates for the siblings of Elizabeth Dusenbury that are published in another source. Apparently they all lived in Peekskill or very close to it. So it confirmed what Perrine states regarding where Elizabeth was from; i.e., Peekskill, NY. The Elizabeth Wright that's found is a Wright by birth; she's not a Dusenbury. Also, I doubt that the Elizabeth Duzenbury that's listed in the Record of Baptisms, p. 387, is the one I'm looking for. My Elizabeth would have been a child ready for baptism ca. 1758, well before Rev. Constant. So, thanks again for the leads. I'll continue to look for my subjects in the area surrounding Peekskill and will report and breakthroughs. Dick Randt > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 14:45:58 EST >From: WOLF6PACK@aol.com >Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Seeking a Marriage Record for Jotham Wright & > Elizabeth Dusenb... >To: nywestch@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <cd7.833f698.32f64076@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >What is the name of the minister who went on hiatus? > >Also, I have researched all records at the Presbyterian church in Peekskill >and the earliest records they have start in 1826 for the 1st Presbyterian >Church. Other records held there are for the 2nd Presbyterian Church and the >Payson Presbyterian Church. > >I too would like to know if the early records are held somewhere. Have you >found out where the Presbyterian Archives is located? they might have some >answers. > >Have you checked the Journal of the Rev. Silas Constant? He was at the >Presbyterian Church in Yorktown. An Elizabeth Dusenbury, a child, was listed as >baptized there, no date. There is an Elizabeth Wright who joined the church in >1786, but she is listed as living out of parish. > >This book can be found on Heritage Quest. Many libraries have a subscription >to it, as does NYG&B. > >Judy Wolf > > > > >

If he belonged to St. Augustine's parish he may well be buried at the St. Augustine's cemetery in Ossining. It's been a while since I've had occassion to research at the Ossining Historical Society, but I think they have an index for the cemetery. You can try contacting them through their website: http://www.ossininghistorical.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: MzScarlettDigs@aol.com Date: Monday, February 5, 2007 12:32 pm Subject: [NYWESTCH] 1860-1870 Cemeteries Peekskill >Ossining To: NYWESTCH@rootsweb.com > I am seeking the cemetery for James McGann, who died in northern > Westchester > during this decade. > > He last belonged to St. Augustine's Parish in > Ossining, but previously lived in Peekskill and Verplanck. > > What cemteries might have been open in this area at this time. > > Thank you for your help, > Barb > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYWESTCH- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There is presently a street named Brandeth Street, in Ossining. B

Thanks, cuz.....please keep me posted. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Frank" <frank3@localnet.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > Sur nuff cuz. I did a posting on the Brandreth name site on Gen Forum. > We'll > see what happens. > Chas. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "quillpen1" <quillpen1@optonline.net> > To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:34 PM > Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > > >> Charles, >> >> I am related to the Brandreths thru my paternal Ward line. I am also >> related >> to the Minnerlys thru my paternal Smith line. All of these lines cross >> both >> by blood and marriage. >> >> If you ever find out why they all came over on the boat together and why >> they were in South Africa to begin with, please let me know. >> >> Brandreth was an Englishman.....and as you know our Minnerly name is >> Dutch. >> .....means she married a Dutchman but Elvira Martin sounds Irish to me. >> >> Maureen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "C. Frank" <frank3@localnet.com> >> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining >> >> >>> Jean, >>> Thank you for this info. What led me to wonder about Brandreth was >>> seeing >>> the name of the "factory" on a Census where some ancestors worked. Then >>> I >>> ran into an obit of Elvira (Martin) Minnerly; she was born in Cape Town, >>> South Africa in 1828 and came to Ossining with her parents when she was >>> 12, >>> I believe. The obit says they came over on the same boat as the late Dr. >>> Benjamin B. Brandreth and his family. >>> Just leads to more questions; what was there relationship? Why >>> emmigrate? >>> Wonder what South Africa was like in 1828? >>> Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jean Ann Lupinetti" <jeanann@bestweb.net> >>> To: <NYWESTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:13 PM >>> Subject: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The Westchester Historian (WCHS magazine) Vol. 81 #1 Winter 2005 is all >>>> about the Brandreth family complete with 15 plus photos! Back issues >>>> of >>>> the >>>> magazine are available for $5.00. Please see the following >>>> http://www.westchesterhistory.com/Pubs3.html if you want to order one. >>>> >>>> Jean Ann >>>> >>>> *************************************** >>>> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >>>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >>>> *************************************** >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> *************************************** >>> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >>> *************************************** >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *************************************** >> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >> *************************************** >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sur nuff cuz. I did a posting on the Brandreth name site on Gen Forum. We'll see what happens. Chas. ----- Original Message ----- From: "quillpen1" <quillpen1@optonline.net> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > Charles, > > I am related to the Brandreths thru my paternal Ward line. I am also > related > to the Minnerlys thru my paternal Smith line. All of these lines cross > both > by blood and marriage. > > If you ever find out why they all came over on the boat together and why > they were in South Africa to begin with, please let me know. > > Brandreth was an Englishman.....and as you know our Minnerly name is > Dutch. > .....means she married a Dutchman but Elvira Martin sounds Irish to me. > > Maureen > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C. Frank" <frank3@localnet.com> > To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:26 AM > Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > > >> Jean, >> Thank you for this info. What led me to wonder about Brandreth was seeing >> the name of the "factory" on a Census where some ancestors worked. Then I >> ran into an obit of Elvira (Martin) Minnerly; she was born in Cape Town, >> South Africa in 1828 and came to Ossining with her parents when she was >> 12, >> I believe. The obit says they came over on the same boat as the late Dr. >> Benjamin B. Brandreth and his family. >> Just leads to more questions; what was there relationship? Why emmigrate? >> Wonder what South Africa was like in 1828? >> Charles >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jean Ann Lupinetti" <jeanann@bestweb.net> >> To: <NYWESTCH-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:13 PM >> Subject: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> The Westchester Historian (WCHS magazine) Vol. 81 #1 Winter 2005 is all >>> about the Brandreth family complete with 15 plus photos! Back issues of >>> the >>> magazine are available for $5.00. Please see the following >>> http://www.westchesterhistory.com/Pubs3.html if you want to order one. >>> >>> Jean Ann >>> >>> *************************************** >>> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >>> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >>> *************************************** >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> *************************************** >> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >> *************************************** >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 2/5/2007 11:42:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cheap@simon.com writes: Thanks, Judy the first articule would not come up but the second one worked. sorry meant that to go private to Carol.

In a message dated 2/5/2007 11:42:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cheap@simon.com writes: Thanks, Judy the first articule would not come up but the second one worked. I just did a search for Morgan House Poughkeepsie. It is freakin deakin cold here in Pok Town.. They said windchills about -15 during the day today. Judy

In a message dated 2/5/2007 2:11:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gizzi1213@optonline.net writes: If he belonged to St. Augustine's parish he may well be buried at the St. Augustine's cemetery in Ossining. To cover all bases. In the Peekskill area you would be looking at St Patrick /St Mary's Cem in Verplanck. I do not think the Assumption Cemetery in Cortlandt stared until later. Judy

Just so nobody gets confused, there was no Bronx in 1820. Bronx County didn't form till almost a century later (1914). A part of Westchester Co. was taken to form it. Cliff ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rootsberggreen@aol.com wrote: >What surname are you researching? > >Also, in 1820 there were also at least two >villages/communities/neighborhoods called Westchester, >one of which was in the Bromx. NY. > >Dan of Pennsylvania, USA > > > >

Charles, I am related to the Brandreths thru my paternal Ward line. I am also related to the Minnerlys thru my paternal Smith line. All of these lines cross both by blood and marriage. If you ever find out why they all came over on the boat together and why they were in South Africa to begin with, please let me know. Brandreth was an Englishman.....and as you know our Minnerly name is Dutch. .....means she married a Dutchman but Elvira Martin sounds Irish to me. Maureen ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Frank" <frank3@localnet.com> To: <nywestch@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > Jean, > Thank you for this info. What led me to wonder about Brandreth was seeing > the name of the "factory" on a Census where some ancestors worked. Then I > ran into an obit of Elvira (Martin) Minnerly; she was born in Cape Town, > South Africa in 1828 and came to Ossining with her parents when she was > 12, > I believe. The obit says they came over on the same boat as the late Dr. > Benjamin B. Brandreth and his family. > Just leads to more questions; what was there relationship? Why emmigrate? > Wonder what South Africa was like in 1828? > Charles > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jean Ann Lupinetti" <jeanann@bestweb.net> > To: <NYWESTCH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:13 PM > Subject: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > > >> Hi, >> >> >> >> The Westchester Historian (WCHS magazine) Vol. 81 #1 Winter 2005 is all >> about the Brandreth family complete with 15 plus photos! Back issues of >> the >> magazine are available for $5.00. Please see the following >> http://www.westchesterhistory.com/Pubs3.html if you want to order one. >> >> Jean Ann >> >> *************************************** >> Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ >> *************************************** >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am seeking the cemetery for James McGann, who died in northern Westchester during this decade. He last belonged to St. Augustine's Parish in Ossining, but previously lived in Peekskill and Verplanck. What cemteries might have been open in this area at this time. Thank you for your help, Barb

Thanks, Judy the first articule would not come up but the second one worked. Thanks, Carol L. Heap

Jean, Thank you for this info. What led me to wonder about Brandreth was seeing the name of the "factory" on a Census where some ancestors worked. Then I ran into an obit of Elvira (Martin) Minnerly; she was born in Cape Town, South Africa in 1828 and came to Ossining with her parents when she was 12, I believe. The obit says they came over on the same boat as the late Dr. Benjamin B. Brandreth and his family. Just leads to more questions; what was there relationship? Why emmigrate? Wonder what South Africa was like in 1828? Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Ann Lupinetti" <jeanann@bestweb.net> To: <NYWESTCH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: [NYWESTCH] Brandreth Pill Factory Ossining > Hi, > > > > The Westchester Historian (WCHS magazine) Vol. 81 #1 Winter 2005 is all > about the Brandreth family complete with 15 plus photos! Back issues of > the > magazine are available for $5.00. Please see the following > http://www.westchesterhistory.com/Pubs3.html if you want to order one. > > Jean Ann > > *************************************** > Have you checked out the Westchester County GenWeb site yet? > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywestch/ > *************************************** > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYWESTCH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >