Kirk, My records show that Grietje Westercamp gave birth to Pieter while unmarried. She claimed that the father was the miller of Wiltwyck, Pieter Jacobszen, although he claimed that the child was not his. He did not marry her. This child, Pieter was Baptized in the Kingston Dutch Reformed Church, the text stating: 1662 Oct 01; Pieter Jacobsen, Grietjen Hendricks Westercam; Pieter; Saertje Staets, Willempje Jacobs, Pieter Hillebrantsen Not knowing if you are familiar with the records, it would read, date, father, mother, child, and the rest were witnesses. If you need any further info, please let me know. Hope this helps, Amy Gonzalez ----- Original Message ----- From: "H. HORSTMAN" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [NYUlster] latin phrase, WESTERCAMP > Thanks to everyone for their responses. It seems that > we have a consensus that the phrase means "neither a > virgin nor a widow". I accept that it may refer to a > woman who had previously conceived out of wedlock. > That makes for a more interesting story anyway. Would > the baby have been baptized by a minister? > > Could the phrase also refer in any way to some type of > divorce? > > I am refering to Kingston Marriages #13, Jan Gerretsen > to Grietjen Hendricks Westercamp in 1664. The reason > I am curious is because I notice that almost 2 years > earlier in 1662, there was a baby Pieter born to > Pieter Jacobsen and a Grietjen Hendricks Westercam > (KIngston Baptism #21). > > Kirk Horstman > --- Marge Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Neither a virgin nor a widow." > > I believe it refers to the fact that the person had > > an illegitimate child. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "H. HORSTMAN" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:46 AM > > Subject: [NYUlster] latin phrase > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me the translation of the > > following > > > phrase that appears in Kingston Marriages: > > > "Est nec virgo nec vidua"? > > > Kirk > > > > > > > ______________________________