We are stuck and need help. Our Irish ancestors seem to have left so little record of their existence that I'm losing hope of making any progress at all. They moved back and forth between Nassau and Chatham and seem to have 'fallen through the cracks' of time ... most of their significant events happened in the early 1880s, just before Columbia and Renss. Counties began keeping records. Maybe someone on the list has an idea for us to pursue. My great great grandfather, Thomas Maguire, was listed on the 1880 Nassau, NY census (#175) at age 65, Laborer, as father-in-law in the family of Daniel and Ella Crenby. We're pretty confident that 'Crenby' is a census error and is rightfully Crowley. Daniel Crowley witnessed the August 14, 1870 marriage of James Maguire, son of Thomas and my great grandparents, to Mary Hogan . The marriage event is listed in the records of St. John the Baptist Church (Catholic) in Valatie. James was about 25, Mary about 20. A Thomas McGuire died in the Alms House in Ghent, NY at age 77. This Thomas fits in every way our profile for my great grandfather. Born in Ireland between 1815 and 1817, coming to America between 1857 and 1859, he died of typhoid fever, very much unknown. James and Mary were listed on the 1880 Nassau census with 3 small children, who were all born in or around Chatham, NY. My grandfather, Thomas Edward McGuire, was born on June 12, 1880, evidently in the Nassau area, too late to have made the census. Not long after his birth -- although we don't know how long -- both James and Mary died. Three of the orphans were 'taken in by other Irish families,' possibly related families. James, Jr. was taken in by Sullivan, Ellen by Heeney, my grandfather Thomas by Dugan. There is no record of what happened to the fourth child, Mary. Maybe she died with the parents, or, and what I believe is a likely scenario, she is the Mary Maguire who died of diptheria in Valatie on March 15, 1885 at age 12 3/4. Except for the marriage notation for James and Mary Hogan, the death record for Thomas in the Alms House, and a baptism notation (January 26, 1875) for Ellen at St. John's, the trail is cold. Records simply don't go back far enough. This young Irish couple with 3 small children and an infant in a brief ten years of their beginning a life together were dead, and like their parents, left little to know them by. Death records for the adult children yield no information other than the names and Irish birth of the parents, James and Mary. With the death of my great grandparents, everything about them was lost. Or seems to have been. We know that Thomas, with wife Mary (last name unknown) and at least 3 children, came to U.S. between 1857 and 1859. We can't find any ship's list with their names. The family was listed on the 1865 Nassau census when my great grandfather James was 20. If we are to ever learn anything more about my ancestors, their origins in Ireland, the ship they came over on, anything more at all, we need help. We need fresh ideas, some steering. Our last hope is in finding a death certificate for Ellen (Helen Clare MaGuire) Maguire (or McGuire) who was taken in by a Heeney family and who married Eugene Heeney by Catholic Clergy in Valatie on 25th November, 1899. They lived in Kinderhook. Her husband Eugene is buried in the Kinderhook cemetery in a family plot but my (Great) Aunt Nell is not buried there with him. We know she died after October 24, 1958, having attended the funeral of my grandfather Thomas. She would have been 82 at the time. She was born in 1876 (or 1875) in Chatham. I can't order the Death Certificate for Ellen Maguire Heeney without knowing the year of her death, and am unable to get to the Archives in Albany. If anyone happens to be searching the archives and comes across her name, would you let me know? My feeling is that of the children, Ellen could have been the one with some knowledge of her parents, James and Mary. My hope is that her Death Certificate might contain their roots in Ireland. My second hope is that someone may know of the existence of records in Nassau or Rensselaer County for the transfer of orphaned children to private homes. Would the families taking them in have had to go through a special process, something formal, or might they have simply assumed responsibility for the children with no formal happenings at all? Of course, if James and Mary were both already seriously ill at the time my grandfather was born, the children could have been 'farmed out' as we used to say, with caring others, and then simply remained in those homes. Is that possible? Would the State or County have had any say or interest? Thomas and James both worked in the mill in Malden Bridge. Would there be mill records somewhere? My final thought is to be put in touch with Crowley and/or Hogan families ... :) ... that's really reaching, I know, but maybe I'd find the one descendant with even a bit of oral history about these elusive Maguire/McGuire ancestors. If anyone has any idea at all for me for a next step, I'd be grateful to hear. Miki in Vermont