Oh, this was cool! There definitely seemed to be a connection for the females in my family. My grandmother, Evelyn was born in 1912 and her name was #11 in the 1910's. My mom's name (Joyce) peaked in the 1930's and she was born 1941. I was born in the 1960's -- the peak for Lisa (#1). I went to school with A LOT of Lisa's! On the flip side, my sister Caroline was named after my mom's maternal grandmother. Caroline wasn't very popular when she was born, but is in the top 100 now. I'll have to check the boy names in my family. I wish something like this existed for the 1800's! Lisa

Hi Cathy: I don't know whether being "Irish" is necessarily a barometer for why or how someone died young or lived a long useful life. If you were doing a study of one particular area, where conditions were the same for all, perhaps you would see a pattern emerge that would be interesting sociologically and medically. But, I fear that given the diversity of environments that one could encounter as an immigrant to the United States, you may emerge at the other end with just too many variables and contributing factors. Not to mention that all Irish do not necessarily have the same genetic background. Depending on where your Irish ancestors came from in Ireland, they could have Scottish or English ancestry or perhaps Norman or Viking ancestry. Ireland was invaded so many times by so many other groups that it would be hard to sort this out first before you even began to look at what the influences of their being in the United States, Australia, Canada, or elsewhere might be. With that said, it is an interesting thought and if you are doing it for your own family it can be a very important window on your family's health history and disease patterns. Even so, however, you are probably only going to be able to do this (with any real reliability) for the 20th Century. I think that for this information to be helpful to you or to others you have to break down the cause of death into at least two parts; natural and unnatural. Disease or Accident? Also, where did they live? In a cramped tenement in a city or on a farm? The time period when someone died is very important. What century and within that, what decade? Were there antibiotics available? Was there even Aspirin in production then? Was there an epidemic (flu, smallpox, measles...) or an outbreak of environmentally produced illnesses (malaria...)? Was an illness related to dietary or sanitary habits? Was an illness due to an occupational hazard (lead or mercury poisoning...)? There are almost too many variables to list. But, if you (not you personally, everyone) don't take the historical context into account you are most likely going to miss the bigger picture. Drownings were common because people didn't know how to swim. In fact, for most, a bath was thought to be the direct road to illness because they thought getting wet was what caused a cold, the flu, etc. Suicide was common because there was no medical relief for physical or mental illnesses. Childbirth could be very deadly. Poverty was a huge contributor. Sanitation, or lack thereof, was a huge contributor. And so on and so forth. My husband's gggrandfather died walking home from work. He froze to death because he didn't have good clothes to protect him from the elements. His death certificate reads: "Frozen." He was 24 years old. Luckily (for my husband) he was already married and had two kids by then! 1862. My own (fully Irish) father is 86 now and disease free. His mother lived to within a few days of her 90th Birthday and died of age related disease. His father died of pneumonia at a very early age (he was 9y) of 38y. His paternal grandmother lived to be 100y 25d and died of age related disease. His paternal grandfather lived to be 83 and died of age related illness. His maternal grandmother died young at 47y due to chronic asthma and bronchitis combined with heart disease. His maternal grandfather died at age 59y of TB. Although all of these deaths occurred in the 20th Century, the decade for each tells much more about "why" they died when they did. There is no real pattern here; each is a separate case in time. Diseases that are easily cured today were deadly back then. A common cold could lead to pneumonia and death relatively quickly. In the case of my grandfather, it was a matter of two days from onset to death. Christmas Eve 1928. The farther back you go, particularly before the 20th C., the more skeptical you also have to be about the diagnosis of the cause of death. The just didn't have the diagnostic tools that they have today. If the heart stopped beating did it automatically mean the person had a heart attack and that is why they died? Not necessarily. A very common "cause" on hundreds of death certificates that I've seen simply said "exhaustion" or "senile debility." One even said "worn out." Many others said "old age." The truth is that whoever was attending probably just made his best guess unless the physicality of the illness was obvious. There are some very interesting websites that outline medical history, epidemics, etc. A google search will bring up lots of them. For medical terminology, a good site is: http://www.paul_smith.doctors.org.uk/ArchaicMedicalTerms.htm There are many others that will get you started with understanding the terminology used (depending on when the death occurred). There are also other places where you might find health related information on your ancestor, particularly if they did have a chronic illness. Censuses sometimes include notes about a person's health or disability. And, if your ancestor died during a census year you may be able to find a mortality schedule (depending on the decade) that gives some further details about their death. Last but not least, do a few searches in historical newspapers about health issues in the decade your ancestor died. Very often they will report fully on deaths due to heat stroke, storms, fires, floods, shipwrecks, epidemics, etc. It's a terrific way to get a clear picture on what the issues of their day were. Hope this helps some. Best regards. Nancy. NLColeman@worldnet.att.net Nassau NYGenExchange www.genexchange.org/county.php?state=ny&county=Nassau www.genealogypro.com/ncoleman.html

Cathy, Please post the exact address for the website ...in the www. Format Elizabeth, also in sunny Naples, Florida...originally from Queens Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4548/

Here is a really neat URL that you can use to find out how popular your ancestor's names were at the time they were born. Try your own name and your children's names, too. Just wait for it to load and then put a name in the upper left corner. The year graph is at the bottom, and the % of popularity is at the right. It's fun! I did all my names, and found that some older names are coming back into usage recently. Click here: The Baby Name Wizard's NameVoyager Thank you very much, Cathy in Sunny Florida, Native of Brooklyn, NY Ongoing Surname Searches as of Jan. 2005 A U S T I N / BALLI N / D R I S C O L L / EZEKIEL F U L L E R / HRADEL K O Z I S K I / K U P E C Z M C L E N D O N / M U R P H Y / N A G L E / R U P P E R T / R Y A N S T E P H E N S / SOBOL / W I L L I A M S / W A L L A

Carol, There really is no other way to do a look up of a grave in Calvary other than to ask the cemetery office just as you did. If I may make two suggestions: Send a letter to the Cemetery office. Call the executrix again, tell her what happened when you called the cemetery and ask her if she would please give you a copy of the death certificate. If you were not named in the will, she is not obligated to do so, but she might. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4548/

For those having difficulty, here's the URL. I googled and got to the website. Thanks Cathy! That was interesting and fun! http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/lnv0105.html Sue Elizabeth V Cardinal <evc1369@comcast.net> wrote: Cathy, Please post the exact address for the website ...in the www. Format ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

Elizabeth You're welcome. I haven't tried any of the courses yet, but since they're free, I thought they would be worth checking out. I'm teaching a beginning genealogy class at my local adult school this spring so I wanted to look into some formal "training". I've learned a lot researching my own family but it's not the same as helping someone with their own. I'm only familiar with the countries I've searched. Lisa * * * * Lisa Thompson TAC Angel #482 Stamp sets for only $2 -- ask me how! lisajt@mchsi.com or visit: http://www.theangelcompany.net * * * * Great men cultivate love.... only little men cherish a spirit of hatred - Booker T. Washington

Hello Everyone: Those of you who are working on your lines back to your 1600s American Ancestors will find the 1600s Ancestors Data Base to be of great help. I have recently posted several hundred new Ancestors to the Data Base bringing the total to over 29,000 entries both men and women. Also listed are several National Societies who have proven many of the Ancestors you will find here. There are also a few new Reference Works that contain many more lines. The entries are coded to indicate to which Society or Reference Work has at least one of their proven lines. Several of the National Societies have over 20 different lines from a single Ancestor. WHEN YOU ENTER THE 1600s ANCESTORS DATA BASE be sure to look at the top of each data page for the link that takes you to the "Data Base Information Page". There you will find the list of codes and how to use them. This is MUST reading if you are to understand the Data Base and how to use it. We are constantly updating the Data Base with Additional Ancestors and references as time permits. More work has been devoted to updating listings of the female Ancestors by going back and including marriage dates. This takes much time and we still have a lot of work to do there. You will find the 1600s Ancestor Data Base at; http://www.firstfamilies.org/db/ For those of you who are AOL members you may have trouble connecting to many pages that may come up with a message such as "Page Does Not Exist" and you should cure that by using your browser feature of Copy and Paste the URL to your browser and pressing your enter key. Everyone has free access to the Data Base and to all our posted pages. Enjoy and Happy Hunting Ryan Jackson Data Base Manager America's First Families

Roughly three (3) months ago, I contacted the executrix of my 1st cousin's estate to find out where my cousin was buried. She informed me that both my 1st cousin, Margaret Mary Sutherland, and her mother, Hannah M. Sutherland, were buried in a plot in the Calvary Cemetery in Queens. I then called the cemetery and was informed that neither of them were buried there. I'm sorry to say that I never had the pleasure of knowing my 1st cousin as I did not realize she even existed. Margaret Mary Sutherland was born 29 Sept 1907 in Brooklyn, Kings Co., NY, and she died on 26 Mar 1999 in Brooklyn, Kings Co., NY. I have no idea what her mother's date of birth was or her death date. I know that the mother was born in Ireland and she died in Brooklyn, Kings Co., NY. If anyone is going out to the Calvary Cemetery, I sure would appreciate a look up for these two relatives. Carol Sutherland McClellan Ohlweiler Jacksonville Beach, FL

Thanks Lisa...I think I will give one of the courses a try. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4548/

<<That certainly made sense for you, but I was researching the families of two great grand uncles, not close enough for strong sentiments :-) and I have no idea who the deed holder might be.>> Yes, it did and the fee was nominal even for the time frame. I have other family members buried in Calvary. A great grandfather bought quite a few graves as he was an undertaker and years ago, they were permitted to buy them and use them for their customers etc. etc. As I do not have the deeds to the other graves, I did not and will not pay any of the charges even though as a direct descendant I am entitled to use the graves. I also "inherited" and have the deeds for numerous graves in the oldest section of Pinelawn that have never been used. I would like to sell them but the cemetery says I must prove all the other descendants are deceased or release ownership to me. An impossible situation. My great grandmother, after the death of my great grandfather also bought shares of Pinelawn ...stocks...and I still get dividends quarterly. She bought those 100 years ago almost to the day. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4548/

Brigham Young University offers free online courses in genealogy. You have to register but there is no cost. There are general genealogy courses as well as courses that cover specific nationalities (immigrants from Germany, France, etc.). http://ce.byu.edu/is/site/special_offers/freecourses.cfm Lisa

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: falk Classification: Cemetery Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/WUB.2ACI/1150.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: i have tried everything... the news paper story about his death says he is buried in st michaels in queens in a family plot... i have called several times and have been told there is only one falk there and it is not frank....he is burried some where with his first wife and possably a young child...and possibly may .francis and frank ..his children....i have been looking for frank falk for about 25 years.... joan

In a message dated 2/16/2005 6:36:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, evc1369@comcast.net writes: > That was almost twenty years ago and so they charged me the fee for > perpetual care which was quite reasonable. > > I did it for sentimental reasons as we do not intend to use the grave....but > then you never know who might need it .....as the deed holder, I can permit > anyone to be buried there. > That certainly made sense for you, but I was researching the families of two great grand uncles, not close enough for strong sentiments :-) and I have no idea who the deed holder might be. GMcC NJ

<<They also sent me a bill for unpaid upkeep for $1800! It appears to be standard practice when anyone inquires about a grave, nice try, but I didn't pay that one. Gwen>> I can't begin to tell you how many of those I have had. If you inquire they will tell you no one can be buried there until the back fees are paid....however; they will negotiate with you or they did with me on my great grandmothers grave. That was almost twenty years ago and so they charged me the fee for perpetual care which was quite reasonable. I did it for sentimental reasons as we do not intend to use the grave....but then you never know who might need it .....as the deed holder, I can permit anyone to be buried there. Elizabeth V. Cardinal evc1369@comcast.net http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Garden/4548/

In a message dated 2/16/2005 6:46:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, CercaPenna@comcast.net writes: > Once there they were very > helpful (I can't say they were as helpful over the phone). I asked if they > could tell me who else was in the grave and the women pulled out a large > ledger book from underneath the counter and looked it up there. She gave me > > 8 names and didn't charge me for the information. > > Stefanie > My experience was they were very helpful over the 'phone and told me how many were in the grave but I had to send $35.00 to get the details which considering I had thought one person was buried there was I was happy to pay. They also sent me a bill for unpaid upkeep for $1800! It appears to be standard practice when anyone inquires about a grave, nice try, but I didn't pay that one. Gwen

Then let me add. My great-grandfather James Morrow was born in Ballynode in County Monaghan and died in Annahagh South which is west of Monaghan Town near Clones. They had a farm there near the old Stone Bridge Presbyterian Church. He is buried in the First Monaghan Presbyterian Church. The stone is "gone," but he is still in the church records. His wife, Anna Woods, was born in Ballybay, County Monaghan and she died in Oakland, California. She is buried in the Mountain View Cemetery as is my great-grandmother. One by one their children migrated to California coast, although I have very few of the immigration records. All lived and died in the San Francisco bay area. I only knew one of this generation, my Uncle Tom who was a wonderful craftsman, carpenter and wood-carver. When he immigrated to the US in 1889, he hand carried a table that he had made, broken down into small pieces. My parents have this prominently displayed in their home. Use what you want. I am definitely a genealogy addict, and would be thrilled to inspire someone else. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: <CAnne16560@aol.com> To: <NYQUEENS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [QUEENS] Curious about life spans of IRISH ancestors > Thanks Barb, your collection of stats on your IRISH family is just great. > It > gives me a lot of the information I was looking for. With your permission, > I > am going to reprint it to Gen-Newbie for others to see because I think it > will > benefit them, too. > > Thank you very much, > Cathy in Sunny Florida, > Native of Brooklyn, NY > > > Ongoing Surname Searches as of Jan. 2005 > > A U S T I N / BALLI N / D R I S C O L L / EZEKIEL F U L L E R / HRADEL > K O Z I S K I / K U P E C Z > M C L E N D O N / M U R P H Y / N A G L E / R U P P E R T / R Y A N > S T E P H E N S / SOBOL / W I L L I A M S / W A L L A > > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Thanks Barb, your collection of stats on your IRISH family is just great. It gives me a lot of the information I was looking for. With your permission, I am going to reprint it to Gen-Newbie for others to see because I think it will benefit them, too. Thank you very much, Cathy in Sunny Florida, Native of Brooklyn, NY Ongoing Surname Searches as of Jan. 2005 A U S T I N / BALLI N / D R I S C O L L / EZEKIEL F U L L E R / HRADEL K O Z I S K I / K U P E C Z M C L E N D O N / M U R P H Y / N A G L E / R U P P E R T / R Y A N S T E P H E N S / SOBOL / W I L L I A M S / W A L L A

My Irish Great Grandmother, Elizabeth Morrow, lived to the age of 78. She was born 1/6/1866 in County Monaghan and died in California in 1/9/1944. Her father James Morrow died in Ireland. He lived from 1815 until 1887, 72 years. Her mother immigrated to the US after his death. She was born in County Monaghan in 1822 and died in California in December 18. 1918 when she was 96 years old. Her brothers all came to the US: James: 11/1/1847 -9/4/1919 , 72 years John: 1850 - 10/27/1933, 83 years William: 1/22/1852 - 8/2/1930, 78 years Hugh: 7/30/1856 - 8/11/1948, 92 years (he got married at age 77. He lied and said that he was 64) David: 2/18/1859 - 2/23/1925, 66 years Thomas: 2/20/1867 - 5/18/1958, 91 years Her sisters both immigrated to the US: Catherine: 1840 - 1/26/1902, 62 years Jane: 4/20/1853 - before 1880, 27 (don't know why) So far I don't know why any of these people died, but I have emailed my father and will try to add the information at a later date. From my father, who is now 83: My grandmother died when I was in my early 20's, so I have recollections of her for more than 20 years.. She was fairly tall and heavy set, as were most of her siblings. I don't recall her ever being ill. I do remember her complaining of high blood pressure, but I don't know the details. She died at home after being bed ridden for no more than a few days. I think the cause of her death probably was a stroke. She was in her late 70's when she died. She remained robust and active during her entire life. My grandmother's older sister, Mary, was shorter in stature than my grandmother but was also "heavy set". I didn't know Mary as well as I knew my grandmother, but I don't remember Mary ever being sick or complaining of any illness. Like my grandmother, she died at home after being bedridden for only a few days. My guess is that she also died from a stroke. Mary was close to 80 when she died. I knew 3 of my grandmother's brothers fairly well. I don't know specific causes of death for any of them. Tom and Joe were large men, about 6 feet tall, Hugh was smaller, probably not over five and a half feet tall and of slender build. Tom and Joe were muscular and always seemed healthy to me. All three of them lived into their late 80's or early 90's. I don't know the cause of death for any of them but I do know that Hugh and Joe died in there own homes after short illnesses whereas Tom died in a nursing home after being bedridden for about a year. All three of them had serious eye problems in there later years, probably cataracts. Hugh was totally blind for five or more years before his death. Tom and Joe were each partially blind before their death. My great grandmother Morrow died shortly before I was born so I don't know details of her death but I do remember my father and others talking about her. She was close to 100 when she died. She had been blind for some time prior to her death, walked with difficulty, used a cane or crutches to get around, but remained mentally alert until the end. We seem to be a fairly healthy bunch of stubborn Irishmen! Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: <GwenM10100@aol.com> To: <NYQUEENS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [QUEENS] Curious about life spans of IRISH ancestors > In a message dated 2/16/2005 9:44:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > CAnne16560@aol.com writes: > >> "How long did your >> IRISH great-grandparents live to be?". >> Mine only lived into their late 60's, which in my opinion is way too >> short, >> and I would like to know why. How long did yours live to be, and why? >> What >> diseases/illinesses did they have? Please give full names, birth/death >> dates, last >> place lived, age at onset of disease, cause of death/age at death, and >> where >> >> buried. This range of questions might give clues to other newbies like >> me. >> > > IMHO you are unlikely to collect sufficient volume of information by > this > method to support any meaningful conclusions. Also,for the younger list > members, the date of deaths for their great grandparents may be so > relatively > recent as to merit continued privacy. > However, for those interested in demographics in general and average > lifespan > of ethnic groups in particular vast amounts of data as been collected > over > time by many agencies (try a google search or ask your local librarian) > > When the Social Security administration formulated their program > (effective > in 1936) and set the benefit age at 65 it was in the expectation that most > beneficiaries would not live more than a couple of years beyond that, > whereas the > life expectancy of a baby girl born today exceeds 80 years. Advances in > life > expectancy have escalated in the most recent three decades. > > For folks born in 1880 Living into their late 60s would be an average or > better life span. > > GMcC > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

This is a repost. Anyone planning to do any research at Brooklyn, Surrogate Court ? I am looking for a custody Case record 1902/1903, where a child was returned to her parent, from a Catholic Orphanage. Please contact me off list. Vince Tennessee