Hi Sue ~ Thanks for your input. You have so often helped me and others here before. I agree about Ancestry and Rootsweb just doing a service and it not being all their fault, since it would be impossible to monitor. I personally wrote the person (at first very politely)who posted my data ( I had blindly shared with her MUCH data before it was even published) But she had begged me and begged me for it, and promised to use it privately. So I relented said ok and mailed it to her by snailmail, as it was a lot of material! To my dismay I accidentally found it all posted when I was searching Ancestry one day, which really shocked and surprised me, since she knew I was publishing a book soon.. I wrote her and asked why she did that when she had promised not to, and she merely laughed in my face. I told her after that she had violated the #1 rule in Genealogy and that is trust in sharing information. She said she posted my name as to the resource of the material, but because the book isn't published as of yet, and the earlier data hasn't been proven, I didn't want it posted. She took that right away from me which really angered me since I trusted her. Like you say, we just have to learn to be more careful. I need to learn to hold my cards closer to myself, so to speak. But it is people like the one mentioned that ruined it for others because they violate a trust when people share their research. Of course I will not sue her, for Copyright Violation, but that is what she did. I (over many years) Compiled thousands upon thousands of people to my Sargent Data of Otsego and South New Berlin. I was lucky enough to go from 200 people(from an ancestor's early book...which I DID NOT COPY verbatim but used as guide) to about 5,000 today. No other member of my line has done that.It was entirely my notes and my work, except for my cited sources, but my compilations. I have gone back to 1670 on this line and I did a lot of research myself and paid a lot of money out to research Libraries to get official documents etc.(she didn't) So when a person does this. It makes your heart sink a little I guess. I was very disappointed she would not cooperate and take it down so I wrote Ancestry@ Customer Solutions. They said it will take some time before anyone gets back on me about it, but I suspect they will not remove it. MY NSDAR material is copyrighted though...Is it not? She copied all that too and posted it with out my authorization. It may be ok in some peoples eyes but something isn't right when another can take all your work, and the $$ you put into a project and incorporate into theirs and just post it, ...Like they did the work. Guess I just got stung, and it won't happen again! I need to be more smart about it, and less trusting. Penny ----- Original Message ----- From: <SueMHR@aol.com> To: <NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:35 AM Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] Rootsweb > Another thought: I do not blame Rootsweb for allowing people to post > information on living people -- or copyrighted material -- or whatever. They do not > have time to inspect and edit every file. That would be an enormous task! > It is entirely the fault of the persons doing the posting. I do think, > however, that all of these sites -- Ancestry, Rootsweb, etc. -- should allow the > person whose information is posted without permission to be the one to request > it's removal -- rather than only being willing to remove it on the request of the > poster -- which is what most of them do. > > This has been an interesting discussion. If nothing else, perhaps it will > cause all of us to be much more careful. > Sue > > Susan M. Hillier Roe > Seal Beach, CA > SueMHR@aol.com > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the > world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." > Margaret Mead, 1901-1978 > > > ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list in digest mode send an email with > the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message > to the following address: NYOtsego-d-request@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.637 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 3/20/04

Rootsweb updated their policy regarding living persons. Go to here: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/announce.html#living Hopefully those of you who have had this problem can not correct it. Rene'

After your email yesterday, I went to rootsweb to see what their policy was I was apalled to find that they allow names of living persons to be listed on their world connect site. I don't understand how this can be allowed to happen, espeically with all of the problems with identity theft. Anyway, I think the only way that you will be able to contact the "owner" of that material is by email. And I agree that sometimes their email address bounces. I've also found that some of the information is upgraded, and this upgrade will be another site of information, sometimes you will find an upgraded email address. I also suggest that you try to find their phone number/address via the internet. Lots of times their is enough information on their site that will lead you to this. Especially if they are putting in "living" information of others they might have that information on themselves. Its a try anyway. And maybe if enough people got together and complained to rootsweb, they might change their policy. Its kind of ironic that they monitor lists and boards, but not world connect where more damage can be done. Just some thoughts. Rene' -------Original Message------- From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Date: 03/21/04 20:56:17 To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYOTSEGO] Legislation Ther were comments on proposed legislation relating to copyright material. I made a comment about what is revealed on certain sites. Today I had a chance to use a broadband connection and to my disgust found on the WorldConnect website the name of a brother-in-law who is very much alive. How does one complain to the owner(s) of that site so that the name can be deleted? I am concurrently attempting to contact the submitter but, unless I'm more successful that usual, I hardly believe there will be a response. In fact, often the e-mail addresses are no longer current. I found previously that the owner(s) of that site don't care whether the e-mail addresses are current. G. M. Freeman Felix Qui Nihil Debet ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list in digest mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-d-request@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Someone on Rootsweb WorldConnect actually posted MY snail mail address!!!! I politely wrote to him and asked him to remove it. No response. I wrote to Rootsweb and received a "sorry but that's between you and him" response. This was over a year ago. My address is still there. Nobody has contacted me or anything, but it's the principle of the thing. I also have a very extensive Fisk/DeForest genealogy. My belief has always been that if someone ON THOSE PAPERS requests the information, I see no reason not to give it to them. Besides that idiot above, only one other person has put everything on their WorldConnect site. I wrote to her and asked her to remove all living people and she graciously complied. Karen Eddy in CT

In a message dated 3/21/04 8:51:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, gmfree@juno.com writes: << found on the WorldConnect website the name of a brother-in-law who is very much alive. How does one complain to the owner(s) of that site so that the name can be deleted? >> I would say you have to go over the owner's head. I had a problem on a Yahoo site a couple of years ago. Nothing I did seemed to get anyone's attention so I started emailing Yahoo twice a day until they did something. I finally got it fixed as they were sick and tired of me.

Ther were comments on proposed legislation relating to copyright material. I made a comment about what is revealed on certain sites. Today I had a chance to use a broadband connection and to my disgust found on the WorldConnect website the name of a brother-in-law who is very much alive. How does one complain to the owner(s) of that site so that the name can be deleted? I am concurrently attempting to contact the submitter but, unless I'm more successful that usual, I hardly believe there will be a response. In fact, often the e-mail addresses are no longer current. I found previously that the owner(s) of that site don't care whether the e-mail addresses are current. G. M. Freeman Felix Qui Nihil Debet ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

As a layman I do not see the proposed legislation relating to copyright law as one which probably will, and should, bite the dust. A little more courtesy on the part of genealogy compilers as well as common sense realization that living persons should not have their mother's maiden exposed on public web sites, for example, would go a long way in avoiding disagreements and hassles. I've seen the name of a living person on a web site. I believe that one should be able to file a complaint with the site owner and have the offending material removed. G. M. Freeman Felix Qui Nihil Debet ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

So far I have not seen what the proposed legislation is all about but sometimes there are issues made to appear more serious than they are and I suppose it's trite to say that there are important issues often overlooked. I went to a web site and found my Mother's maiden name. A word to the wise: make up a name and record it somewhere that you can use as your mother's maiden name. It's not the bank's business nor that of any financial institution generally what my Mother's maiden name is. I have found family data on a nationally known web site from a fellow who refuses to respond to any inquiry. How did he get this stuff and why is he exposing my Mother's maiden name? Why did another person show a living family member on an easily accessed web site? I find these areas troubling. Why can't one file a complaint with Rootsweb WorldConnect, for example, and have the offending material removed by the submitter when it exists on that web site? G. M. Freeman Felix Qui Nihil Debet ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

We live in a litigious society, and yes, there are people who spend money on just this sort of thing. Not long ago a very reputable Ca. historian whom I knew personally as a lovely man and one of impeccable integrity was accused of plagiarism. His name was Stephen Ambrose - wrote of the Lewis and Clark Expedition and the Union Pacific R.R. etc. His son helped him do research. His son lifted a couple of paragraphs [one could argue if he took away from the original author's value or in fact enhanced the value of the original's author's work, but Stephen Ambrose was plastered all over the papers for weeks with negative publicity. Ambrose didn't have to be sued. His reputation was destroyed and about a year ago, not too long after the incident, he died of a heart attack; all because his son did not give attribution for a few sentences. But, all that Stephen Ambrose dedicated his whole life too, was destroyed in an eye blink. The one's I'd like to see get it in the shorts are the instructor's who unscrupulously take their students work and publish it as their own! marilyn ElaineDecker@cs.com wrote: >In a message dated 3/19/04 6:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, >schoolbell@ulink.net writes: > ><< attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, > but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always > practical to sue. >> > >Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer because >someone copied something from your genealogy online records? Wish I were that rich. > > >==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >

It is great to see this subject revisited every so often. One good way to prevent even the hint of impropriety is SOURCE CITATION................... When a researcher uses ANY information found ANYWHERE, it is that researcher's responsibility to cite the source where found. If the same information is found in a couple of different places, it is good practice to mention those as well. Researchers do not invent the information they write about. If they do not invent it and do not cite the source from which it was found, that use [as innocent as it may be] may constitute plagiarism, let alone copyright infringement. For the sake of intellectual honesty, source citation needs to be insisted upon. Our wonderful NYOTSEGO Rootsweb site already has a link to a useful source of Copyright Information. The link is: http://www.usgenweb.org/volunteers/copyright.html Wishing you all success with your projects, Leigh Leigh C. Eckmair, Historian Town of Butternuts & The Local History Collection THE Gilbertsville Free Library librarian@stny.rr.com http://www.gilbertsville.com/Library.htm

I agree. I also think that if you share your information with someone (email/snail mail) you have to be prepared that its going to travel on. Is this right? No. Unfortunately it has been proven time and again, that some people can't be trusted. Penny was being a very kind person to share her information, and its terrible that this person violated her trust. Whether she could win an infringement suit, I don't think so, but that's just my opinion based on what I know of copyright law. Just because all that person had to do was change some things and add their own information. Rene' -------Original Message------- From: Clifford Hayes Date: 03/20/04 06:15:41 To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYOTSEGO] Lists and copyrights It is a delight to me to see so much interest in HR 3261- and that is a national bill, not just for one or a few states. There are a lot of opinions on what is copyright and what is not. Also, it has been expressed that much in genealogy is in the public domain. Another opinion is that you cannot copy such information if it is in the originator's format. For genealogists, most of us use a publicly purchased format, including PAF and so many others What do you think it means (or should mean) if A copies the data from B's list but puts in in the format of another program? The basic data is the same, name, birth, death, marriage. And how do you make attribution to an original author? Examples in my own case: I had information on my ancestors, partly from my great grandfather's Bible. That was his data (before this all came into question). I then found further ancestors on a web site that did attribute the author. My query as to how to reach the author went unanswered. To further complicate the matter, I then found a lot of additional information on Rootsweb in one site and it was further substantiated by similar data in another Rootsweb site. Since I am placing this data in my PAF file (which is a different format from the others), 1. How do I attribute the data (do I do it for each person, one at a time, and if so, how?) or make a comment somewhere that I took data from these sources. I have no problem with making the attributions - in fact, I feel it is incumbent on me to do so in order that others can go to my sources to verify my accuracy in gathering the data. I feel that anyone that publishes their data on the internet does do in the interest of helping others gather data that is pertinent to their family and them without the need for attribution. To me that is different than taking an entire work or a major portion of it and republishing under someone else's name. Any comments, pro or con? Cliff Hayes ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Thats a great idea to post them. However, please be aware that these laws change, especially now that lots of people are using the internet. Interpretations and laws vary from lawyer to lawyer, state to state and country to country. Some good sites to look at are: www.copyright.gov/ www.whatiscopyright.org/ http://library.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getfile pl?file=/articles/pmsllp/pmsllp000049.html http://www.fplc.edu/tfield/aVoid.htm http://law.duke.edu/ip/ The biggest thing to know is that the burden of proof lies with the person or company claiming copyright infringement. This is NOT an easy thing to do especially with items of public knowledge, like genealogy. Someone can take your information, change the wording, change the form or order, then it becomes their intellectual property. Is this morally right? No. Is this legal? If the information is public knowledge, Yes. If the information is personal knowledge, like from a diary, No. If you have shared this personal knowledge with more than one person and that person shared it with someone else? Yes. -------Original Message------- From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Date: 03/19/04 20:54:07 To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. Elaine and others.... Guess it all depends how important of an issue it is for a person, and what "value" they place on the many years of their research and hard work.. For some it is the whole principle of the matter. Would you want to see a person prosecuted for coming into your house and robbing you of all your valuables? Of Course you would. I really see no difference. A crook is a crook. If data is copied and posted by another with out expressed permission of the author...It's stealing and in direct violation of copyrighted material. We have gone through this Copyright issue before on these lists. Sue Roe... didn't you post some good Copyright laws before on this list about 4 years ago?. I would re-forward them but I might be in violation(laughing) I kept them in a Misc folder for reference as they were so helpful! Is it ok if I repost them here or would you mind posting them again? They were excellent! Penny From: <ElaineDecker@cs.com> To: <NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. > In a message dated 3/19/04 6:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > schoolbell@ulink.net writes: > > << attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, > but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always > practical to sue. >> > > Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer because > someone copied something from your genealogy online records? Wish I were that rich. > > > ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 3/16/04 ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list in digest mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-d-request@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Good comments, Cliff! You've brought up some very interesting ideas for us to ponder. Jean Chapman Snow Cliff said: <It is a delight to me to see so much interest in HR 3261- and that is a national bill, not just for one or a few states. There are a lot of opinions on what is copyright and what is not. Also, it has been expressed that much in genealogy is in the public domain. Another opinion is that you cannot copy such information if it is in the originator's format. For genealogists, most of us use a publicly purchased format, including PAF and so many others. What do you think it means (or should mean) if A copies the data from B's list but puts in in the format of another program? The basic data is the same, name, birth, death, marriage. And how do you make attribution to an original author? Examples in my own case: I had information on my ancestors, partly from my great grandfather's Bible. That was his data (before this all came into question). I then found further ancestors on a web site that did attribute the author. My query as to how to reach the author went unanswered. To further complicate the matter, I then found a lot of additional information on Rootsweb in one site and it was further substantiated by similar data in another Rootsweb site. Since I am placing this data in my PAF file (which is a different format from the others), 1. How do I attribute the data (do I do it for each person, one at a time, and if so, how?) or make a comment somewhere that I took data from these sources.>

Kathleen said: <I appreciate this new information-- and I do plan to read the bill. Just wanted to allay some fears, I hope, that the copyright law for writers has always maintained a practice of what is called "fair use." You give credit to the original author in your manuscript (now "database" it seems) and you are allowed to quote or use a limited portion of their information. > I read the same original paragraph (which is now traveling through many of the lists I subscribe to) in Dick Eastman's Newsletter. When I forwarded it to my editor and the Writers' Group I teach, I said "From Dick Eastman's Newsletter." I notice on some other lists it's just been quoted with no attribution. So much for fair use, eh? Maybe that's what this law is about. And re Penny Kresl's concern - she said <You are so right. I, being a somewhat trusting person, shared a huge portion of my database (abt 1,000), to a cousin I found I was remotely related to...> and Penny later found it spread all over Ancestry.com's World Connect. Some of this may be do to beginners' ignorance, but it's very bad practice. I too had connected with a distant cousin some years ago and shared information with her. Later I found my data on FTM's site (whatever it's called), including private material about my immediate family that I myself would NEVER have put on the internet! I was furious and wrote her, because as I remembered, it even included my mother's maiden name, which is often used by banks or credit cards to identify you (I've since changed that identification to something safer!). So I think she withdrew that info. But that may be partly the reason I still have not sent my own Gedcom to RootsWeb, though I must say, the main reason is that I keep wanting to go back and clean up any errors before I do, and have not had time. Still...! Jean Chapman Snow

It is a delight to me to see so much interest in HR 3261- and that is a national bill, not just for one or a few states. There are a lot of opinions on what is copyright and what is not. Also, it has been expressed that much in genealogy is in the public domain. Another opinion is that you cannot copy such information if it is in the originator's format. For genealogists, most of us use a publicly purchased format, including PAF and so many others. What do you think it means (or should mean) if A copies the data from B's list but puts in in the format of another program? The basic data is the same, name, birth, death, marriage. And how do you make attribution to an original author? Examples in my own case: I had information on my ancestors, partly from my great grandfather's Bible. That was his data (before this all came into question). I then found further ancestors on a web site that did attribute the author. My query as to how to reach the author went unanswered. To further complicate the matter, I then found a lot of additional information on Rootsweb in one site and it was further substantiated by similar data in another Rootsweb site. Since I am placing this data in my PAF file (which is a different format from the others), 1. How do I attribute the data (do I do it for each person, one at a time, and if so, how?) or make a comment somewhere that I took data from these sources. I have no problem with making the attributions - in fact, I feel it is incumbent on me to do so in order that others can go to my sources to verify my accuracy in gathering the data. I feel that anyone that publishes their data on the internet does do in the interest of helping others gather data that is pertinent to their family and them without the need for attribution. To me that is different than taking an entire work or a major portion of it and republishing under someone else's name. Any comments, pro or con? Cliff Hayes

Exactly! -------Original Message------- From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Date: 03/19/04 19:46:27 To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. In a message dated 3/19/04 6:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, schoolbell@ulink.net writes: << attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always practical to sue. >> Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer because someone copied something from your genealogy online records? Wish I were that rich. ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Marilyn, You said it much better than I. I have also considered writing a book on my cemetery and census compilations but this information is so precious - to me anyway, that I just can't go that route. Some people can afford the books, lots can't, or don't know that the book is even out there. I feel so much better putting it on the county or town websites for everyone to share. I agree that when some take your information verbatim without credit given is a little irksome - I've found some of my information on different websites too. I have to tell myself that its for a good purpose and go on my way. What I have found with the attorneys that I've consulted with is providing proof that your copyright was violated. Not that easy when doing a family tree, compiling census information or cemetery info, etc. Most of us use the same formats, so who's to say that they did or didn't do it first? Interesting conversation. Rene' -------Original Message------- From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Date: 03/19/04 19:17:58 To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. Rene' and Elaine, If you collect your own data or some people just re-arrange other people's format [which to me is stinky] then you originate your own document. No one can copyright public documents and call them their own. If they go to the recorder's office and compile death, birth, marriage records they can copyright their list. They cannot copyright the information. You can go and do exactly the same thing, compile your own list from that very same material. I see that you say this in your second paragraph. You just can't copy the info from their list and provide it in their format. I have people quote my book all the time and that is in fact why I wrote it. I wanted it to be a jumping off point for people to start their own research into African American history in Sacramento. I can't say that everyone gives me attribution when they are using my facts and occasionally this bother's me. One African American Web site used my material flagrantly but they added to it - no attribution is given and these people putting together the web site are from a local university and should know better. But I wrote my book as a community service and I don't want my ego to get in the way of the purpose for which I wrote the book. But basically anything, according to the 1976 copyright laws, that you pen or that you put on your computer is your intellectual property and is copyrighted as soon as it leaves your pen or is on your computer. My husband is an attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always practical to sue. Thank you for the response! marilyn Rene' wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > >No, it isn't just for NY. And as you can see its a VERY touchy subject. > >Basically what it comes down to, is that information written by someone is >considered their copyright. Information that you find on the web and >elsewhere is copyright. You can't copy someone's material and repost it >anywhere, in the same form as you took it. > >Information that is public knowledge, like birth dates, death dates, census >material etc, is public knowledge, you can take this information and put it >in your own words and forms and you don't violate a copyright. But if you >copy this information word for word then you violate a copyright. > >However, there are many variations to this rule, such as a book that has >been written, you can post that material after so many years. The amount of >years depends on several things, could be so many years after the authors >death, or so many years since the copyright was renewed (this mostly >pertains to words like Avon), or so many years after the book, etc was >written. > >This is just a loose generalization of copyright law. If you are concerned >about copyrights, its best to hire a lawyer, because there are so many >aspects and interpretations of copyright law. > >Another example is this message, I could consider anyone copying this >verbatim as copyright infringement, but in all reality it wouldn't hold up >in a court of law. > >Hope this helps some, >Rene' > >-------Original Message------- > >From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com >Date: 03/19/04 09:25:32 >To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. > >Hi Elaine, >I am not up to speed on what is going on with this new copyright law, >does this effect only N.Y.? >Thanks! >marilyn > &gt;ElaineDecker@cs.com wrote: > > > >>In a message dated 3/18/04 10:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> >> >&amp;gt;cliff.hayes@earthlink.net writes: > > >><< If you really want to see the proposed legislation, you can view it by >>going to >>http://thomas.loc.gov/ and in the place to type in the bill you are >>interested in, put "HR3261", then click on search. >> >> >>Read what is really said about the bill in the halls of Congress: >> >>http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat092303.html >> >> >> >> > > > >==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, >unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following >address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list in digest mode send an email with >the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message >to the following address: NYOtsego-d-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. 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Elaine and others.... Guess it all depends how important of an issue it is for a person, and what "value" they place on the many years of their research and hard work.. For some it is the whole principle of the matter. Would you want to see a person prosecuted for coming into your house and robbing you of all your valuables? Of Course you would. I really see no difference. A crook is a crook. If data is copied and posted by another with out expressed permission of the author...It's stealing and in direct violation of copyrighted material. We have gone through this Copyright issue before on these lists. Sue Roe... didn't you post some good Copyright laws before on this list about 4 years ago?. I would re-forward them but I might be in violation(laughing) I kept them in a Misc folder for reference as they were so helpful! Is it ok if I repost them here or would you mind posting them again? They were excellent! Penny From: <ElaineDecker@cs.com> To: <NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. > In a message dated 3/19/04 6:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > schoolbell@ulink.net writes: > > << attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, > but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always > practical to sue. >> > > Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer because > someone copied something from your genealogy online records? Wish I were that rich. > > > ==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 3/16/04

In a message dated 3/19/04 6:32:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, schoolbell@ulink.net writes: << attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always practical to sue. >> Can you imagine spending thousands of dollars to hire a lawyer because someone copied something from your genealogy online records? Wish I were that rich.

Rene' and Elaine, If you collect your own data or some people just re-arrange other people's format [which to me is stinky] then you originate your own document. No one can copyright public documents and call them their own. If they go to the recorder's office and compile death, birth, marriage records they can copyright their list. They cannot copyright the information. You can go and do exactly the same thing, compile your own list from that very same material. I see that you say this in your second paragraph. You just can't copy the info from their list and provide it in their format. I have people quote my book all the time and that is in fact why I wrote it. I wanted it to be a jumping off point for people to start their own research into African American history in Sacramento. I can't say that everyone gives me attribution when they are using my facts and occasionally this bother's me. One African American Web site used my material flagrantly but they added to it - no attribution is given and these people putting together the web site are from a local university and should know better. But I wrote my book as a community service and I don't want my ego to get in the way of the purpose for which I wrote the book. But basically anything, according to the 1976 copyright laws, that you pen or that you put on your computer is your intellectual property and is copyrighted as soon as it leaves your pen or is on your computer. My husband is an attorney. He may be only one of a few attorney's who think this way, but he says while you may have the legal edge, that it isn't always practical to sue. Thank you for the response! marilyn Rene' wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > >No, it isn't just for NY. And as you can see its a VERY touchy subject. > >Basically what it comes down to, is that information written by someone is >considered their copyright. Information that you find on the web and >elsewhere is copyright. You can't copy someone's material and repost it >anywhere, in the same form as you took it. > >Information that is public knowledge, like birth dates, death dates, census >material etc, is public knowledge, you can take this information and put it >in your own words and forms and you don't violate a copyright. But if you >copy this information word for word then you violate a copyright. > >However, there are many variations to this rule, such as a book that has >been written, you can post that material after so many years. The amount of >years depends on several things, could be so many years after the authors >death, or so many years since the copyright was renewed (this mostly >pertains to words like Avon), or so many years after the book, etc was >written. > >This is just a loose generalization of copyright law. If you are concerned >about copyrights, its best to hire a lawyer, because there are so many >aspects and interpretations of copyright law. > >Another example is this message, I could consider anyone copying this >verbatim as copyright infringement, but in all reality it wouldn't hold up >in a court of law. > >Hope this helps some, >Rene' > >-------Original Message------- > >From: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com >Date: 03/19/04 09:25:32 >To: NYOTSEGO-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [NYOTSEGO] The facts of the new copyright bill. > >Hi Elaine, >I am not up to speed on what is going on with this new copyright law, >does this effect only N.Y.? >Thanks! >marilyn > >ElaineDecker@cs.com wrote: > > > >>In a message dated 3/18/04 10:42:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> >> >&gt;cliff.hayes@earthlink.net writes: > > >><< If you really want to see the proposed legislation, you can view it by >>going to >>http://thomas.loc.gov/ and in the place to type in the bill you are >>interested in, put "HR3261", then click on search. >> >> >>Read what is really said about the bill in the halls of Congress: >> >>http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat092303.html >> >> >> >> > > > >==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list in list mode send an email with the word, >unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message to the following >address: NYOtsego-l-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >==== NYOTSEGO Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe from this list in digest mode send an email with >the word, unsubscribe,in the subject field & body of the message >to the following address: NYOtsego-d-request@rootsweb.com > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >