Lauren I could disagree with you about our ancestors paying to disclose information - at least in the census. Census takers went around - did not require people to go anywhere to given information. And the federal census was not for taxes, it was for apportionment of legislators. But that could be a long philosphical debate on the role of the government, etc. Should the government provide more free services? if so, it will take more taxes. There is no free lunch; somebody must pay. There may be merit in more services for more taxes, but the present populace of the US seems to be opting for the opposite, which has a different kind of merit. Instead, I would rather point out that you would not be paying for the data. You would paying for someone to extract, organize, and provide that data to you. Should these people (not government workers at ancestry.com) donate their time to you and everyone else? If they should donate their labor, what is their incentive for performing that labor so that the information is available? And if looking in a government office, is it incumbent upon the rest of the taxpayers to pay for the government employee to take time and effort to locate and provide data that is to benefit to you and not the rest of taxpayers? I am sympathetic to your disability and lack of funds, but that hardly changes the principle of paying for someone's labor. So I think your complaints are off base. Having said that, there are "volunteers" who will provide free help, who will donate their time, and sometimes expenses, to provide people with information they want or need. They do their best work when they are not approached with an attitude that someone is "entitled" to free help. Many RootsWeb county lists have volunteers; the Oswego list is relatively small and may not. But if there are volunteers, they often get considerable numbers of requests. They cannot necessarily turn things around very quickly. One lady I know (another list- CA) has to drive 30 miles to town to go through records for other people. She does not do this every day; she does it about every two weeks. She is doing it free, but she still feels guilty when she goes on vacation and cannot get to things for a month and a half. The LDS folks have a number of volunteers, more perhaps at Family History Centers than on-line. Their time is normally donated, but the LDS church provides support for genealogists simply by obtaining, organizing, and housing data. That really means that the LDS members who support the LDS church are paying to help out both LDS and non-LDS genealogists. Let's be nice, not demanding and whining, to these people or they may stop helping. I cannot remember, and do not have a record of, one of the widest volunteer groups' URL. But if you search for "random acts of kindness" and "genealogy" you'll find a lot of people in a lot of places who help others. Some may have ready access to census records; some probably pay their own money to subscribe to ancestry.com so they can help others. And one or another has some kind of access to an amazing array of information in different places. Try them out. Larry In a message dated 10/21/03 5:05:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << Hello - I am against paying for information our ancestors 'paid to disclose'. Each time they provided their personal and specific information they then were taxed. Our ancestors paid dearly to give the government data demanded. Therefore I believe the data belongs to the families not the government. And when we need it - it should be returned freely.... also I am disabled from birth, forced to work, as a result, I continue to loose the health previously had. Now, I 'must' survive on limited disability funds I 'paid dearly' to have. I am against unrelated people demanding money from 'us' so 'we' can get back' family information. Strange but that's how I feel. I am especially angry with places like ancestry.com. It seems to me they established a business with a specific intent 'take our money' for information our ancestors were obligated to provide. I heard it's unconstitutional to tax us. I don't have the facts on that, but I think the tax system is 'on it's face unfair' and inherently deprives many citizens of their right to the pursuit of happiness, as they must live in poverty or near poverty 'just' to satisfy an irrational and impersonal government. But I appreciate that you took the time to write me with your thoughts and advise. I am especially intrigued by the library information. I shall contact them to see if I can access the sites 'at home' via their connections... A BIG 'Thank you' Lauren Rowe Syracuse Onondaga County NY *** a woman wrote me this morning with instructions on 'how' to get the information from the LDS site. I can't wait to try it. She 'did it' and sent me the results - so it seems 'one' can obtain the information from the net...yippee -----Original Message-- From: jeanpayton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 2:45 PM To: [email protected] Re: [NYOSWEGO] records request help Dear Lauren You will be unable to get any info off the net from the LDS in Utah. You have to go through their family history centers in your area. They have centers in just about every place you can think of. Look in your yellow pages for the LDS near you. Call them and see if they can be of help to you. Are you looking for Census Records? online sources pay sites www.ancestry.com you can access their Census Records. Another pay site for census records are www.genealogy.com another pay site www.kindredkonnections.com, www.Godfrey.org is another pay for site, www.NewEnglandAncestors.com. The above sites all have good records well worth the fees. if you can find out from your local library what online services they offer that you can obtain at home through their website such as Ancestry.com or Heritagequest.com. Most libraries are online now and offer free services from home. I am sure that Syracuse Library has access online all you need to get is a library card from them which can give you access to many online programs that they offer. So if I can be of any further help to you let me know and I will see what I can find for you. Jean Payton --- Original Message --- From: "jaturner" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected] Friday, October 10, 2003 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NYOSWEGO] records request help > I don't know how to get it off the net, but you might try the telephone. > Look in the phone book for the nearest LDS church and ask for their Family History Center. I have found the people (generally volunteers) who work there helpful to anyone who needs information and/or help. > Jan T > ----- Original Message ---> From: Lauren Rowe <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected] Tuesday, October 07, 2003 4:22 PM > Subject: [NYOSWEGO] records request help > > Listers: I wonder is anyone out there familiar with the process for obtaining LDS > > records? Hopefully you know how to get them on the net as I am disabled. > > I know: head of house (Hiram Ashael VanDusen); LDS batch > 8715903, sheet 69, source call # 1396356, film 170624 p 133 repts: Hiram b > Montague Lanark Ontario Jan 26 1831; relative: Burten W. Ritenburgh (submitter ?) > > >>