Greetings, Orange County fans: Last October, I received a tip from this very list regarding the "Hillside Cemetery [Middletown, Orange, NY] Civil War Graves Project" at http://home.sprynet.com/~nonfarby/oo1~1.htm. Sure enough, one of the veterans whose grave has been lost is "H. D. PARRET". He's actually "Horace D[enton?] PARET", my G3GF! Thanks to the kind person who pointed me to the site. I e-mailed the Civil War Graves Project Committee chair last October, Frank S COLEMAN, to advise him of the identification and to volunteer to draft a professional looking map of the cemetery to replace the hand-drawn one on the website. I never heard from the man. I'm wondering, if he's no longer involved with this project, whom should I contact? If he's changed e-mail addresses, could someone please contact him and give him my e-ddress? Thanks again, Julia

Mr Mike ~ If you're going to be looking up older NYS places, the French's gazetteer may come in handy for you. Reprints are still on sale today, but you can find several versions online for free download at GoogleBooks (it's even indexed): 'Gazetteer of the State of New York: embracing a comprehensive view of the[...]' By John Homer French, Frank Place http://books.google.com/books?q=editions:LCCN01015805&id=6xYsdWHqZpQC&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=7 It's not perfect. For instance, Frantzdale, literally smack on the border between Ulster and Sullivan Counties, a D & H Canal village, isn't mentioned. Nevertheless, the book can be very helpful. I checked the index - no Oakee, or Oakes, for that matter - maybe they came along after the book was published. I find an Oatka (or Allens) Creek, tributary of the Genesee River, flowing in Genesee, Monroe, and Wyoming Counties, but no associated villages of that name. Have fun hunting, Julia --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Mike Greatorex <mgreato@jmgreatorex.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: ...Does anyone know where this place is? Mike

http://newyork.hometownlocator.com/ny/ulster/oakes.cfm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Greatorex" <mgreato@jmgreatorex.freeserve.co.uk> To: <nyorange@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] NY State Records at Albany > Lois, cant find Oakes in Ulster, CO, can you pinpoint it? > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lois Franceschi" <ljfljf@psyber.com> > To: <nyorange@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] NY State Records at Albany > > >> >> There was an Oakes in Ulster County, NY. Don't know if this is what you >> are looking for. >> >> http://www.livgenmi.com/1895/NY/Index/o.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There was an Oakes in Ulster County, NY. Don't know if this is what you are looking for. http://www.livgenmi.com/1895/NY/Index/o.htm

Dick, tks for yr email. Just to let you know, I have just emailed the Onondaga Library and asked for a look up. Fingers crossed on this one. Regards and Thanks Mike Greatorex Harrogate, England Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Hillenbrand" <nygenes@gmail.com> To: <nyorange@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] NY State Records at Albany > > Mike Greatorex, > > You can go, or have someone go to the New York State Archives to look > them up but bear in mind the NYS index starts in 1880. There were no > laws previous to that date that required vital records to be recorded. > There is one exception in that they tried to implement a VR program > in 847 but it is very spotty, and lacking. The ones that do exist > only span 1847, 1848 and 1849 and they are scattered hither and yon. > You have to search for them at the county level. > > The Onondaga County Public Library in Syracuse, New York has a copy of > the microfiche index set of the master statewide VR index, and they > have offered to do free look ups with some limitations. > > I wrote about it on my blog that you may read here: > http://www.unyg.com/blog/index.php/tag/nys-vital-records/ > > Hope that helps. > > Dick Hillenbrand > Upstate New York Genealogy > www.unyg.com > > > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Mike Greatorex > <mgreato@jmgreatorex.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >> A question, is it possible to go to the NY State Records, which I think >> is in Albany, and search >> the Birth/Marriage and Death indexes like we do over here in England. The >> indexes provide >> only a little detail but once you have identified a likely candidate, you >> can then order a copy >> of the certificate, be it Birth/Marriage or Death. >> >> Have just been looking at the State website and to be honest its not >> cheap so was looking to >> see if its possible to search the records first, before committing money >> to the Records office. >> >> Regards >> >> Mike Greatorex >> Harrogate, England >> Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange >> Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. >> http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/ >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Julia: Sorry to hear you are sick. There is no hurry on the Obit. You get better first. I just got over one myself and it took about 2 1/2 weeks. Bill Forshay - San Antonio, TX ________________________________ From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> To: Orange List <NYORANGE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 11:27:00 PM Subject: [NYORANGE] Regarding: FORSHAY obit Hi - I finally was in Middletown on Friday evening WITH time to spend at the library AND with the search info on me. Sadly, however, one of the few microfilm tapes they are missing from their Times-Herald Record series is the Dec 16-31, 1979 tape. ARGHHH! The librarian suggested I try the library at SUNY Orange (used to be Orange County Community College), also in Middletown. I planned to do that this coming week, but I've spent the day coming down with my husband's cold, so I'm not sure I can make it that soon. I'll try the college library as soon as I can. Sniffle, Julia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to all for suggestions, (now I need a RAOGK) . I will follow up the various tips passed to me. Thankfully I'm looking for early 20th C records which appear to be no problem. Thanks again Mike Greatorex Harrogate, England Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/

Hi - I finally was in Middletown on Friday evening WITH time to spend at the library AND with the search info on me. Sadly, however, one of the few microfilm tapes they are missing from their Times-Herald Record series is the Dec 16-31, 1979 tape. ARGHHH! The librarian suggested I try the library at SUNY Orange (used to be Orange County Community College), also in Middletown. I planned to do that this coming week, but I've spent the day coming down with my husband's cold, so I'm not sure I can make it that soon. I'll try the college library as soon as I can. Sniffle, Julia

A question, is it possible to go to the NY State Records, which I think is in Albany, and search the Birth/Marriage and Death indexes like we do over here in England. The indexes provide only a little detail but once you have identified a likely candidate, you can then order a copy of the certificate, be it Birth/Marriage or Death. Have just been looking at the State website and to be honest its not cheap so was looking to see if its possible to search the records first, before committing money to the Records office. Regards Mike Greatorex Harrogate, England Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/

Hello, again! Read this blog, the associated comments, and links. You'll get a good overview of NYS vital records; it isn't the easiest state in which to get them. http://ny-genes.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-to-obtain-copies-of-vital-records.html Also, once you are ready to order a document, you'll see why it's a waste of money to request an abstract from a local Town Clerk and why you should order the records from Albany in spite of the longer wait. I don't know if the info about getting index look-ups still pertains, but perhaps you could ask a favor from a list person who lives near a library that holds the index or use a Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness (RAOGK) request. http://www.raogk.org/ Best of luck - I really admire your persistence from afar! Julia --- On Fri, 1/22/10, Mike Greatorex <mgreato@jmgreatorex.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: ...NY State Records...Birth/Marriage and Death indexes... Mike

Yes, you can look at the microfiche indexes free in Albany and several other cities around the state, including New York City, but you must go in person or hire someone to look for you. I made the trip and was impressed by the facility but unfortunately didn't find what I was looking for. -----Original Message----- From: nyorange-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nyorange-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Greatorex Sent: Friday, January 22, 2010 3:02 PM To: NY Orange Co List Subject: [NYORANGE] NY State Records at Albany A question, is it possible to go to the NY State Records, which I think is in Albany, and search the Birth/Marriage and Death indexes like we do over here in England. The indexes provide only a little detail but once you have identified a likely candidate, you can then order a copy of the certificate, be it Birth/Marriage or Death. Have just been looking at the State website and to be honest its not cheap so was looking to see if its possible to search the records first, before committing money to the Records office. Regards Mike Greatorex Harrogate, England Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mike Greatorex, You can go, or have someone go to the New York State Archives to look them up but bear in mind the NYS index starts in 1880. There were no laws previous to that date that required vital records to be recorded. There is one exception in that they tried to implement a VR program in 847 but it is very spotty, and lacking. The ones that do exist only span 1847, 1848 and 1849 and they are scattered hither and yon. You have to search for them at the county level. The Onondaga County Public Library in Syracuse, New York has a copy of the microfiche index set of the master statewide VR index, and they have offered to do free look ups with some limitations. I wrote about it on my blog that you may read here: http://www.unyg.com/blog/index.php/tag/nys-vital-records/ Hope that helps. Dick Hillenbrand Upstate New York Genealogy www.unyg.com On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Mike Greatorex <mgreato@jmgreatorex.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > A question, is it possible to go to the NY State Records, which I think is in Albany, and search > the Birth/Marriage and Death indexes like we do over here in England. The indexes provide > only a little detail but once you have identified a likely candidate, you can then order a copy > of the certificate, be it Birth/Marriage or Death. > > Have just been looking at the State website and to be honest its not cheap so was looking to > see if its possible to search the records first, before committing money to the Records office. > > Regards > > Mike Greatorex > Harrogate, England > Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabamha, USA. > http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

A big Thank you from California. I also noted in the published will book that some of the names are left out of the index. Phoebe In a message dated 1/15/2010 6:47:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, k2mi@frontiernet.net writes: So I spent 2 hours at surrogate court, creating an index (see below) showing which years are included for each liber from 1787 to 1900, by checking date of probate for the first and last entries for each liber. Feel free to pass this on to anyone who might get some help from it.

Sue, That's a great story but you didn't tell us who your Granny was. That info might help some folks. Phoebe in CA In a message dated 1/15/2010 12:39:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, goldsage@aol.com writes: Marty and Julia et al. While I haven't had the honor of spending any time in the records office in Goshen, I have sent others in to do the work for me - because like Julia, I am a neophyte when it comes to digging in these places. The ace in the hole was a friend of mine who works with the Warwick Historical Society and knew what I was looking for. Femi just happened to be digging in the files at Goshen for something else and found a document that warmed the cockles of my little heart. This document was my GGGGgrandmother, filing for her dower rights after my GGGGgrandfather died in 1818. You see he had left the farm to the boys, and she was none-too-pleased about it, as it appeared her eldest son was mismanaging the place. The instrument she filed was an ADMEASURE. Apparently the admeasure proceedings opened a rift. This son left for Ohio in 1829 leaving one brother who moved upstate. Their mother sold the land in 1838 and moved to PA with her youngest daughter. So yes, you will find instruments that were filed by women. I am working in the records of England these days, and have found several wills circa 1600 written by women, although they are fewer than men. If there is no male heir in the family the lands are often left to the daughters and then they must be responsible for passing the legacy on, which is usually done with a will. Sometimes the wills in England are nuncupative, and while I haven't run across any like that in America, I am sure that they exist. What Does Nuncupative Will Mean? A verbal will that must have two witnesses and can only deal with the distribution of personal property. A nuncupative will is considered a "deathbed" will, which is often written down after the death by the witnesses and the probated. Also, don't discount land record searches. They may be the only way you will know what happened to the family. I was looking in Ohio for the land records in Brownhelm, and while there were references to the records being there, the staff was not finding them. Then I found a very obscure notation about the records I was seeking. I gave the record to another researcher who had some tenacity. She went into the records office and when they told her they didn't exist, she said, "May I look in your basement?" Lo and behold, the records had been unceremoniously tossed into the basement and were not part of the modern database. In the past someone had become lazy and left them stranded down there with the moisture. The records have now been returned into the database. Sometimes land records are the only way to find a marriage. In Iowa, (same family) there are no official marriage records before 1880. The only clue we had to this particular marriage was persistent hearsay. Again, Providence looked upon us kindly, when in a deed was found in the courthouse, the name of the bride emerged. SHE LIVED! Moral of the story . . . keep looking. It's out there somewhere. Sometimes intuition and persistence is a great tool. Sue Simonich In a message dated 1/15/2010 11:59:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, k2mi@frontiernet.net writes: Julia (and others), Regarding the gap between liber 2 and liber 27...even the chief clerk could not answer that one. Remember...that happened more than a century before her time. My guess is that 1 to 26 were skipped because A to Z takes 26 libers, but if so...why did they create 1 and 2 which overlap two earlier ones? I have no idea why they did that, nor do I know which wills were duplicated (if any). I just know the first and last years of libers 1 and 2.. When I am asked to copy wills, I copy everything available for that individual, since the supplementary records may contain additional names of family members. For instance, my great great grandfather died when his wife was 3 months pregnant, so there was no possible way for him to name the last child in a will. Re: "Early Orange County Wills (1731 - 1830)" - it was created by humans, and I found one will that was missed by this book. OCGS has another book covering probate records of the same era, if you'd care to stop by and take a look at it. In general, though, if no will for an individual was listed in that book, the odds are very high that it doesn't exist. As for Julia's other questions, all I can add is that every case is individual, and my experience has been that even wealthy people died intestate. Some wealthy people did not have any probate records at all. Why not??? Perhaps others would care to share their experiences with probate records. Marty Irons Goshen NY k2mi@frontiernet.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some years back, working from a little info I'd found, a will abstract, Marty Irons searched for me but found no will. Not long after I again whined on a message board or mail list like this one, surname or county, and a er distant relative sent me a copy of the will details. I know what that told me. At a small community library I'd helped found and 2nd a genealogy group, we find out that some folks think that historical documents or records with their family surname on them must of course belong to them, so they just take them. Same goes for the scraps in courthouses and basements, I've seen it. That makes my teeth itch.

Thank you, Sue, for the valuable info! I remember reading that Ulster County's dower book still exists, but only recently found out the difference between "dower" and "dowery" - I always thought they were synonyms. I never saw the terms "admeasure" or "nuncupative", before, so thanks. And great job with those Ohio records. I'm glad you were able to intervene when you did.  Warmly, Julia --- On Fri, 1/15/10, goldsage@aol.com <goldsage@aol.com> wrote: ...you will find instruments that were filed by  women...  Sue

What a relief! I was so embarrassed to mention my will & probate challenged-ness, that it never occurred to me that I wasn't the only one with questions. Thanks, Mr Irons. --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Marty <k2mi@frontiernet.net> wrote: ...Perhaps others would care to share their experiences with probate records. Marty

Marty and Julia et al. While I haven't had the honor of spending any time in the records office in Goshen, I have sent others in to do the work for me - because like Julia, I am a neophyte when it comes to digging in these places. The ace in the hole was a friend of mine who works with the Warwick Historical Society and knew what I was looking for. Femi just happened to be digging in the files at Goshen for something else and found a document that warmed the cockles of my little heart. This document was my GGGGgrandmother, filing for her dower rights after my GGGGgrandfather died in 1818. You see he had left the farm to the boys, and she was none-too-pleased about it, as it appeared her eldest son was mismanaging the place. The instrument she filed was an ADMEASURE. Apparently the admeasure proceedings opened a rift. This son left for Ohio in 1829 leaving one brother who moved upstate. Their mother sold the land in 1838 and moved to PA with her youngest daughter. So yes, you will find instruments that were filed by women. I am working in the records of England these days, and have found several wills circa 1600 written by women, although they are fewer than men. If there is no male heir in the family the lands are often left to the daughters and then they must be responsible for passing the legacy on, which is usually done with a will. Sometimes the wills in England are nuncupative, and while I haven't run across any like that in America, I am sure that they exist. What Does Nuncupative Will Mean? A verbal will that must have two witnesses and can only deal with the distribution of personal property. A nuncupative will is considered a "deathbed" will, which is often written down after the death by the witnesses and the probated. Also, don't discount land record searches. They may be the only way you will know what happened to the family. I was looking in Ohio for the land records in Brownhelm, and while there were references to the records being there, the staff was not finding them. Then I found a very obscure notation about the records I was seeking. I gave the record to another researcher who had some tenacity. She went into the records office and when they told her they didn't exist, she said, "May I look in your basement?" Lo and behold, the records had been unceremoniously tossed into the basement and were not part of the modern database. In the past someone had become lazy and left them stranded down there with the moisture. The records have now been returned into the database. Sometimes land records are the only way to find a marriage. In Iowa, (same family) there are no official marriage records before 1880. The only clue we had to this particular marriage was persistent hearsay. Again, Providence looked upon us kindly, when in a deed was found in the courthouse, the name of the bride emerged. SHE LIVED! Moral of the story . . . keep looking. It's out there somewhere. Sometimes intuition and persistence is a great tool. Sue Simonich In a message dated 1/15/2010 11:59:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, k2mi@frontiernet.net writes: Julia (and others), Regarding the gap between liber 2 and liber 27...even the chief clerk could not answer that one. Remember...that happened more than a century before her time. My guess is that 1 to 26 were skipped because A to Z takes 26 libers, but if so...why did they create 1 and 2 which overlap two earlier ones? I have no idea why they did that, nor do I know which wills were duplicated (if any). I just know the first and last years of libers 1 and 2.. When I am asked to copy wills, I copy everything available for that individual, since the supplementary records may contain additional names of family members. For instance, my great great grandfather died when his wife was 3 months pregnant, so there was no possible way for him to name the last child in a will. Re: "Early Orange County Wills (1731 - 1830)" - it was created by humans, and I found one will that was missed by this book. OCGS has another book covering probate records of the same era, if you'd care to stop by and take a look at it. In general, though, if no will for an individual was listed in that book, the odds are very high that it doesn't exist. As for Julia's other questions, all I can add is that every case is individual, and my experience has been that even wealthy people died intestate. Some wealthy people did not have any probate records at all. Why not??? Perhaps others would care to share their experiences with probate records. Marty Irons Goshen NY k2mi@frontiernet.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Julia (and others), Regarding the gap between liber 2 and liber 27...even the chief clerk could not answer that one. Remember...that happened more than a century before her time. My guess is that 1 to 26 were skipped because A to Z takes 26 libers, but if so...why did they create 1 and 2 which overlap two earlier ones? I have no idea why they did that, nor do I know which wills were duplicated (if any). I just know the first and last years of libers 1 and 2.. When I am asked to copy wills, I copy everything available for that individual, since the supplementary records may contain additional names of family members. For instance, my great great grandfather died when his wife was 3 months pregnant, so there was no possible way for him to name the last child in a will. Re: "Early Orange County Wills (1731 - 1830)" - it was created by humans, and I found one will that was missed by this book. OCGS has another book covering probate records of the same era, if you'd care to stop by and take a look at it. In general, though, if no will for an individual was listed in that book, the odds are very high that it doesn't exist. As for Julia's other questions, all I can add is that every case is individual, and my experience has been that even wealthy people died intestate. Some wealthy people did not have any probate records at all. Why not??? Perhaps others would care to share their experiences with probate records. Marty Irons Goshen NY k2mi@frontiernet.net

And remember. Just because someone tells you that the state (any state) didn't begin to register marriage records does not mean there are no records. Sue mentioned Iowa as an example of no marriage records prior to 1880. Look in the county records. i have a copy of my great great grandparents marriage record from 1856 in Oskaloosa County, Iowa. They do exist, you just have to search for them. Lois in Auburn, CA