One book wrote that my maiden ggg-aunt was married and had a kid, there were 27 other women with the same name in Orange County, at that time period, and he decided she was the one. He got indigent, when I questioned his book and his source. (Oh, I have notes somewhere, yeah) I have her actual will naming her brother's children as heirs, and the family bibles. But people with will believe his book (he's not a historian!!, just someone selling an undocumented book.) Don't trust any unsourced book. Its like rootsweb, they copy someone else's tree and say here, here is my tree, junk!!!! I have been researching for over thirty-five years, and respected sources like "Barber" and "Coleman" are full errors. Annie ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4c144e55529085da5dm08vuc

By the same token, don't you wish that all the "historians" were thorough, honest and professional when they commit the "real" story to paper? I have debunked my share of family lore but also come face to face with a woman who published a history that included my branch of the family, and told me herself that she "stuck" my ancestor with a certain family by a different surname "because he didn't fit anywhere else." Hardly "proof" enough for me to abandon the records I have and my digging to uncover my family's roots. When I questioned this "author" about her sources she told me herself that she destroyed her research notes when she sent her manuscript to the publisher. I don't believe that either, regardless of how famous this woman is or how widely the "history" sold. I think in the face of these discrepancies, all we can do is document them and move on. If I have family history I hang on to every single story and cherish every word. Sometimes I get different versions of the same events and I just hang on to them both. What if the version that came down in the family was the only one that turned out to be right? What if my ancestor was the eye witness that was missing from the other research and our story completes the picture? I also think that when it comes to historical events there are other, sometimes even current, researchers to consult outside of genealogical circles that may be able to point you in another place to look for information. Universities and living historians are helping me now with my Revolutionary War soldier. Another source that's been helpful was the curator of a museum dedicated to a particular battle. I provided them with both sides of the story and asked them to help me. With the military records in hand and as much supporting documentation as possible, I've found these people more than willing to help someone that could even possibly be a descendant of a participant of that battle. They've been gracious and sensitive and so far willing to assist without asking me for money either. Maybe it's time to introduce some of those historians to the documents your family holds?? What if the ones you have help them, too?? Brace yourself though for the possibility that you may have documentation that generations of your family have revered that could never have been correct. That happened to me with my Revolutionary War soldier. The flip side however is that in finding the truth I found out more about the man that I'd ever hoped. Knowing the pieces I have now are not someone else's interpretation makes it easier for me to accept that my 4g grandfather was not exactly the person our family documentation said he was. He was so much more. Yep, and he's still one of my biggest brick walls.... -------------------------------------------------- From: "juliasgenes" <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:09 PM To: <nyorange@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Orange Co. Baptists & Joseph Brant > Ah, ya gotta love those families stories! If only they were grounded in > fact, it would save a lot of research time. > > On my father's side, my GF was supposedly the cousin of Kaiser Wilhelm. > Not even remotely true. I would still note that the Brant encounter is a > family story even if the evidence has proved it wrong: that's a fun thing > to add and what I plan to do, too, with the Kaiser. That the stories are > wish fulfillment also throws a very human light on the ancestors. > > Oh, and my uncle told the mother of 2 of his Philippine children before he > abandoned them that he was the cousin of Johnny Weissmueller. But that > wasn't so much a family story as it was a bald-faced lie. My cousins were > quite disappointed when they found out it wasn't true. > > (Though it's quite possible that my uncle may have been a stunt double in > at least 1 Tarzan film. The first wife he abandoned knows that he worked > on films after they moved to CA. There's no way of knowing if he ever even > met Weissmueller and the film credits back then were pretty skimpy. I > checked with a film historian and Weissmueller biographer who told me that > records weren't kept on who worked on what film.) > > I guess everyone has the urge to boost their importance to some degree. My > uncle had a greater urge than most. > > > --- On Sat, 6/12/10, Goldsage@aol.com <Goldsage@aol.com> wrote: > > Thanks. I have read several of those. My evidence comes from family > records. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks. I have read several of those. My evidence comes from family records. In a message dated 6/11/2010 9:14:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, juliasgenes@yahoo.com writes: Gee, Sue, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I've read that Joseph Brant was NOT at the Wyoming Massacre. Due to his fearsome reputation among the Americans, he was thought to be everywhere at once. The WM was not the barbaric scene that some contemporaneous Americans described. Only combatants were injured and killed, not non-combatants, women, and children. It was used as fearful (and effective) propaganda. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Wyoming_Valley_massacre http://www.galafilm.com/chiefs/htmlen/mohawk/ev_wyoming.html There's a somewhat similar story told about Joseph Brant rescuing a fellow Mason: "...Lt. Col. William Stacy of the Continental Army was the highest ranking officer captured during the Cherry Valley massacre. Several accounts indicate that during the fighting, or shortly thereafter, Col. Stacy was stripped naked, tied to a stake, and was about to be tortured and killed, but was spared by Brant. Like Brant, Stacy was a Freemason. Stacy was reported to have made an appeal as one Freemason to another, and Brant intervened. (Allan W. Eckert, a modern-day historian, speculates that the Stacy incident is “ more romance than fact”, though he provides little basis for his speculation.)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Brant Don't feel badly, Sue - I got interested in the Brants and William Johnson because family legend said we descended from Johnson via his children with Molly, but no dice. (My brother is still holding out for "Cousin" Walter Johnson, the famous baseball pitcher, though.) I recommend: * Isabel Thompson Kelsay's "Joseph Brant, 1743–1807, Man of Two Worlds." There are older public domain biographies available for download online which are fine, but none have the scholarship and depth of Kelsay. As a sort of trilogy, these books will add to a well-rounded view of important events that took place in pre-Revolutionary & Revolutionary New York and surrounding areas. These three allied people were extremely influential in shaping the history of the Revolution and the emerging nation: Molly Brant, Joseph Brant, and Sir William Johnson - * Earle Thomas: "The Three Faces of Molly Brant: A Biography". There are also online webpages and essays available about Molly. * Fintan O'Toole: "White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of America". Likewise, there are public domain works available online. I'm currently reading: * Alan Taylor's "The Divided Ground: Indians, Settlers, and the Northern Boderland of the American Revolution", so I guess that would make my recommendations a 'quadology' .^_^. Taylor examines Joseph Brant's outlook on the ownership of lands by the Iroquois juxtaposed with that of his old schoolmate, Samuel Kirkland. The land issue was a big reason that the Americans rebelled (stamp acts, taxes, and non-representation were not the whole picture). They longed for that Iroquois homeland in a manifest destiny kind of way while the British attempted to keep it intact for the Indians. Molly Brant is given her due for the role she played as Iroquois matriarch in the British and Iroquois side of the war. And don't get me started about the Connecticut Yankees that forced their way into the Wyoming Valley and the Delaware Valley, claiming them for CT! That's one of the reasons the Iroquois were upset with the settlers. Can you tell that I find this era interesting? Because if not, I could go on... --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Goldsage@aol.com <Goldsage@aol.com> wrote: ...He was spared during the Wyoming Massacre, and in fact, was informed the night before by Chief Joseph Brant, to leave his new church or perish. Both men were Free Masons, so this may have had something to do with their relationship... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

AAARRGGGGHHHH! as Charlie Brown would say. This is EXACTLY * EXACTLY * EXACTLY what the genealogy journals are for - to correct and debunk errors in the records and published books. Why not write an article for inclusion in a scholarly journal, such as "The American Genealogist (Tag)", the "New England Historical and Genealogical Register" (interests are much wider than NE), the "College of William and Mary Quarterly" or those at the state or local level, or for a special focus journal? The journal websites should have guidelines for writers posted or you can contact the editor for guidance. There are online e-zines that look for content, too. If you feel unsure about writing for a journal, create a free blog (at "Blogger" or "Wordpress") and post your findings there to get the corrected info propagating through the web (be sure to allow the blog to be available to search engines - that should be a question you answer when you join up). At the very least, the Local Historian for the area/battle/whatever in question would likely appreciate a report from you. If you have been careful and saved all your notes, YOU CAN DO IT! I look forward to seeing your byline. http://www.cyndislist.com/magazine.htm And arrange for all your records to be stored at a library, society, or archive well before you have a chance of expiring or all that stuff could very well end up in a landfill somewhere. Not even in the recycling bin! --- On Sat, 6/12/10, Karen <kprice401@msn.com> wrote: ...a woman who published a history that included my branch of the family, and told me herself that she "stuck" my ancestor with a certain family by a different surname "because he didn't fit anywhere else."...

Jenny, I remember seeing a book or 2 on county histories of the area that are in public domain, but due to current reprintings, they weren't available to read. It's been a few years since I've looked, however, so maybe there are newer uploads available. Perhaps general histories of PA might have something? I also had a hard time finding anything online regarding the Pennamite Wars (1769 & 1784, more like an angry altercations between the Yankees and the Pennsylvanians) and never did find anything very enlightening. But it's been a while since I looked. * The Susquehanna Company records, along with lots of other mentions of the company, are online & download-able through the Pennsylvania Archives database - free at Footnote, though you need to register. Many of the 800+ proprietors are named, if not all. Read from the beginning as the list kept growing and some proprietors sold their shares. Joseph Skinner, mentioned early on before he was murdered, is a GF. Also see: * http://www.cslib.org/susqsettlers.htm  - backgound, a bibliography, and be sure to follow the links for lists of the settlers * http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813514940/ref=cap_pdp_dp_2/184-9424682-6044329 - I haven't read this book, but it supposedly has info on dealings between the Leni Lenape ("Delawares") and the Susquehanna Company * The O'toole's Johnson biography has something about the situation as Sir William attempted an arbitration between PA, CT, and the Iroquois Confederacy. * http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/mg/mg344.htm  - archived records Is your summer beach reading settled on now? --- On Sat, 6/12/10, Jenny Inskeep <jenny.inskeep@cox.net> wrote: ...any reading in particular on those Ct Yankees and the Wyoming Valley? Jenny

Ah, ya gotta love those families stories! If only they were grounded in fact, it would save a lot of research time. On my father's side, my GF was supposedly the cousin of Kaiser Wilhelm. Not even remotely true. I would still note that the Brant encounter is a family story even if the evidence has proved it wrong: that's a fun thing to add and what I plan to do, too, with the Kaiser. That the stories are wish fulfillment also throws a very human light on the ancestors. Oh, and my uncle told the mother of 2 of his Philippine children before he abandoned them that he was the cousin of Johnny Weissmueller. But that wasn't so much a family story as it was a bald-faced lie. My cousins were quite disappointed when they found out it wasn't true. (Though it's quite possible that my uncle may have been a stunt double in at least 1 Tarzan film. The first wife he abandoned knows that he worked on films after they moved to CA. There's no way of knowing if he ever even met Weissmueller and the film credits back then were pretty skimpy. I checked with a film historian and Weissmueller biographer who told me that records weren't kept on who worked on what film.) I guess everyone has the urge to boost their importance to some degree. My uncle had a greater urge than most. --- On Sat, 6/12/10, Goldsage@aol.com <Goldsage@aol.com> wrote: Thanks. I have read several of those. My evidence comes from family  records.

Julia, Can you recommend any reading in particular on those Ct Yankees and the Wyoming Valley? Jenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "juliasgenes" <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> To: <nyorange@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Orange Co. Baptists & Joseph Brant > Gee, Sue, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I've read that Joseph Brant > was NOT at the Wyoming Massacre. Due to his fearsome reputation among the > Americans, he was thought to be everywhere at once. The WM was not the > barbaric scene that some contemporaneous Americans described. Only > combatants were injured and killed, not non-combatants, women, and > children. It was used as fearful (and effective) propaganda. > http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Wyoming_Valley_massacre > http://www.galafilm.com/chiefs/htmlen/mohawk/ev_wyoming.html > > There's a somewhat similar story told about Joseph Brant rescuing a fellow > Mason: > > "...Lt. Col. William Stacy of the Continental Army was the highest ranking > officer captured during the Cherry Valley massacre. Several accounts > indicate that during the fighting, or shortly thereafter, Col. Stacy was > stripped naked, tied to a stake, and was about to be tortured and killed, > but was spared by Brant. Like Brant, Stacy was a Freemason. Stacy was > reported to have made an appeal as one Freemason to another, and Brant > intervened. (Allan W. Eckert, a modern-day historian, speculates that the > Stacy incident is “more romance than fact”, though he provides little > basis for his speculation.)" > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Brant > > Don't feel badly, Sue - I got interested in the Brants and William Johnson > because family legend said we descended from Johnson via his children with > Molly, but no dice. (My brother is still holding out for "Cousin" Walter > Johnson, the famous baseball pitcher, though.) > > I recommend: > > * Isabel Thompson Kelsay's "Joseph Brant, 1743–1807, Man of Two Worlds." > There are older public domain biographies available for download online > which are fine, but none have the scholarship and depth of Kelsay. > > As a sort of trilogy, these books will add to a well-rounded view of > important events that took place in pre-Revolutionary & Revolutionary New > York and surrounding areas. These three allied people were extremely > influential in shaping the history of the Revolution and the emerging > nation: Molly Brant, Joseph Brant, and Sir William Johnson - > > * Earle Thomas: "The Three Faces of Molly Brant: A Biography". There are > also online webpages and essays available about Molly. > > * Fintan O'Toole: "White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of > America". Likewise, there are public domain works available online. > > I'm currently reading: > > * Alan Taylor's "The Divided Ground: Indians, Settlers, and the Northern > Boderland of the American Revolution", so I guess that would make my > recommendations a 'quadology' .^_^. > > Taylor examines Joseph Brant's outlook on the ownership of lands by the > Iroquois juxtaposed with that of his old schoolmate, Samuel Kirkland. The > land issue was a big reason that the Americans rebelled (stamp acts, > taxes, and non-representation were not the whole picture). They longed for > that Iroquois homeland in a manifest destiny kind of way while the British > attempted to keep it intact for the Indians. Molly Brant is given her due > for the role she played as Iroquois matriarch in the British and Iroquois > side of the war. > > And don't get me started about the Connecticut Yankees that forced their > way into the Wyoming Valley and the Delaware Valley, claiming them for CT! > That's one of the reasons the Iroquois were upset with the settlers. Can > you tell that I find this era interesting? Because if not, I could go > on... > > > --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Goldsage@aol.com <Goldsage@aol.com> wrote: > > ...He was spared during the Wyoming Massacre, and in fact, was informed > the night before by Chief Joseph Brant, to leave his new church or perish. > Both men were Free Masons, so this may have had something to do with their > relationship... > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

K Powell wrote: > I'm so glad you reminded me to mention that there's a need to search Ulster County for some of what became Orange county ... prior what was it, about 1800? > > 1798 if I remember right - the same year Rockland was formed, in any case. Draw a line due west from the Cornwall/New Windsor town line to the Delaware, and everything north of that was originally part of Ulster.

Gee, Sue, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I've read that Joseph Brant was NOT at the Wyoming Massacre. Due to his fearsome reputation among the Americans, he was thought to be everywhere at once. The WM was not the barbaric scene that some contemporaneous Americans described. Only combatants were injured and killed, not non-combatants, women, and children. It was used as fearful (and effective) propaganda. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Wyoming_Valley_massacre http://www.galafilm.com/chiefs/htmlen/mohawk/ev_wyoming.html There's a somewhat similar story told about Joseph Brant rescuing a fellow Mason: "...Lt. Col. William Stacy of the Continental Army was the highest ranking officer captured during the Cherry Valley massacre. Several accounts indicate that during the fighting, or shortly thereafter, Col. Stacy was stripped naked, tied to a stake, and was about to be tortured and killed, but was spared by Brant. Like Brant, Stacy was a Freemason. Stacy was reported to have made an appeal as one Freemason to another, and Brant intervened. (Allan W. Eckert, a modern-day historian, speculates that the Stacy incident is “more romance than fact”, though he provides little basis for his speculation.)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Brant Don't feel badly, Sue - I got interested in the Brants and William Johnson because family legend said we descended from Johnson via his children with Molly, but no dice. (My brother is still holding out for "Cousin" Walter Johnson, the famous baseball pitcher, though.) I recommend: * Isabel Thompson Kelsay's "Joseph Brant, 1743–1807, Man of Two Worlds." There are older public domain biographies available for download online which are fine, but none have the scholarship and depth of Kelsay. As a sort of trilogy, these books will add to a well-rounded view of important events that took place in pre-Revolutionary & Revolutionary New York and surrounding areas. These three allied people were extremely influential in shaping the history of the Revolution and the emerging nation: Molly Brant, Joseph Brant, and Sir William Johnson - * Earle Thomas: "The Three Faces of Molly Brant: A Biography". There are also online webpages and essays available about Molly. * Fintan O'Toole: "White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of America". Likewise, there are public domain works available online. I'm currently reading: * Alan Taylor's "The Divided Ground: Indians, Settlers, and the Northern Boderland of the American Revolution", so I guess that would make my recommendations a 'quadology' .^_^. Taylor examines Joseph Brant's outlook on the ownership of lands by the Iroquois juxtaposed with that of his old schoolmate, Samuel Kirkland. The land issue was a big reason that the Americans rebelled (stamp acts, taxes, and non-representation were not the whole picture). They longed for that Iroquois homeland in a manifest destiny kind of way while the British attempted to keep it intact for the Indians. Molly Brant is given her due for the role she played as Iroquois matriarch in the British and Iroquois side of the war. And don't get me started about the Connecticut Yankees that forced their way into the Wyoming Valley and the Delaware Valley, claiming them for CT! That's one of the reasons the Iroquois were upset with the settlers. Can you tell that I find this era interesting? Because if not, I could go on... --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Goldsage@aol.com <Goldsage@aol.com> wrote: ...He was spared during the  Wyoming Massacre, and in fact, was informed the night before by Chief Joseph  Brant, to leave his new church or perish. Both men were Free  Masons, so this may have had something to do with their relationship...

Julia, thank you for the advice, will also submit to Sullivan list. Pat Coyne In a message dated 6/11/2010 1:15:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nyorange-request@rootsweb.com writes: Today's Topics: 1. Advice, please! (Dave & Liz DuBois) 2. Re: Minisink Cemetery help needed (MARTY) 3. Re: Advice, please! (Goldsage@aol.com) 4. Westchester County Genealogical Society (NY) Upcoming Meeting (PMDofWP@aol.com) 5. Re: Advice, please! (Richard VanHouten) 6. Re: Advice, please! (Goldsage@aol.com) 7. Re: WILLIAM COYNE, circa 1840, (juliasgenes) 8. Re: Advice, please! (Dave & Liz DuBois) 9. Gertrude Barber headstone transcritions (juliasgenes) 10. Re: Gertrude Barber headstone transcritions (juliasgenes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 00:23:14 -0700 From: Dave & Liz DuBois <ddubois@sinclair.net> Subject: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! To: "ORANGE COUNTY, NY" <nyorange@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <4C1092E2.3000809@sinclair.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed In my quest for information on the Hezekiah MEAD family, living in Orange County, I wanted to contact the historian for Warwick BUT I find there is both a town and a village named Warwick and each one has their own historian. How do I determine which person I should be writing to? Many thanks! Liz ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:25:32 -0400 From: MARTY <k2mi@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Minisink Cemetery help needed To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4C10D9BC.1060207@frontiernet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Elizabeth Whitaker born 1793 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=whitaker&GSfn=elizabet h&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSst=36&GScnty=2013&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=17260024& Agnes Chandler born 1793 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=chandler&GSfn=agnes&GS byrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSst=36&GScnty=2013&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=46071700& Liz, you can search for the other Wisner girls at findagrave.com by clicking on "include maiden name". http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gs& Marty findagrave.com contributor since 2007 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:51:57 EDT From: Goldsage@aol.com Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! To: nyorange@rootsweb.com, sgardner@ansernet.rcls.org, sgardner@rcls.org Message-ID: <9104f.3ebd1797.394247fd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sue Gardner is the deputy historian. She is at the library in Warwick. _sgardner@ansernet.rcls.org_ (mailto:sgardner@ansernet.rcls.org) In a message dated 6/10/2010 12:25:34 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ddubois@sinclair.net writes: In my quest for information on the Hezekiah MEAD family, living in Orange County, I wanted to contact the historian for Warwick BUT I find there is both a town and a village named Warwick and each one has their own historian. How do I determine which person I should be writing to? Many thanks! Liz ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:29:12 EDT From: PMDofWP@aol.com Subject: [NYORANGE] Westchester County Genealogical Society (NY) Upcoming Meeting To: NYDUTCHE@rootsweb.com, NYROCKLA@rootsweb.com, NYORANGE@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <7281f.14037e3a.3942c138@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Westchester County Genealogical Society (NY) Upcoming Meeting The next meeting is this coming Saturday. MEETING INFO: WHAT: Writing the Family Narrative - A talk by Tony Lauriano WHEN: Saturday, June 12, 2010 @ 10 a.m. WHERE: Aldersgate Methodist Church, 600 Broadway in Dobbs Ferry (across from Mercy College on route 9) Tony Lauriano has been lecturing in New York and New Jersey on Genealogy since his retirement as Director of Finance for Catholic Hospitals in Brooklyn/Queens Dicoese in 2005. Lauriano brings a high quality of research effort and detail into his genealogy research. During his lectures, Tony provides research tips that require little or no travel but can be accomplished via the internet as well as through the postal mail. This talk will present suggestions on how to produce a family narrative that will be well received by using family stories and the data collected through your research. Guests are always welcome. Coffee and conversation precede the meeting at 9:30 a.m. For information about Westchester County Genealogical Society (Westchester Connection or Surname List), visit WCGS home page -- _http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywcgs/_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~nywcgs/) Hope to see you on Saturday!! ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:22:45 -0400 From: Richard VanHouten <richvh@citlink.net> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4C119DF5.5040206@citlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dave & Liz DuBois wrote: > In my quest for information on the Hezekiah MEAD family, living in > Orange County, I wanted to contact the historian for Warwick BUT I find > there is both a town and a village named Warwick and each one has their > own historian. How do I determine which person I should be writing to? > > Many thanks! > The town is older than, and contains, the village. In New York, villages are urban areas smaller than a city that have been incorporated, but remain part of the town they are formed out of. Towns are originally rural subdivisions of a county. If your Hezekiah Mead was a farmer, he would most likely not have been in Warwick village. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 23:13:54 EDT From: Goldsage@aol.com Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <84b57.67e4a62d.394303f2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" It wouldn't hurt to check both places. The town historian was my gold mind, although she passed away about five years ago. Also when I was working in that area, the Bellvale also seemed to be interchangeable with Warwick. Have you checked with the Orange County Genealogical Society in Goshen for more information? They have a wonder group of volunteers who do some fantastic research. I am forever in their debt and will be a life member. They are by far the best and most generous society I have worked with in N.Y. Here is their web site in case you haven't seen it. OCGSNY.org. There is a new book coming out that you might want to check on from OCGS. It's Orange County Jury Lists Volume One 1798-1825, by Kenneth Dunning. This might be a great tool in your research. I know I am going to order a copy. Sue Simonich In a message dated 6/10/2010 7:23:05 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, richvh@citlink.net writes: Dave & Liz DuBois wrote: > In my quest for information on the Hezekiah MEAD family, living in > Orange County, I wanted to contact the historian for Warwick BUT I find > there is both a town and a village named Warwick and each one has their > own historian. How do I determine which person I should be writing to? > > Many thanks! > The town is older than, and contains, the village. In New York, villages are urban areas smaller than a city that have been incorporated, but remain part of the town they are formed out of. Towns are originally rural subdivisions of a county. If your Hezekiah Mead was a farmer, he would most likely not have been in Warwick village. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:20:36 -0700 (PDT) From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] WILLIAM COYNE, circa 1840, To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <929388.84585.qm@web110016.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Barryville is in Sullivan County and PJ is also quite close to Sullivan - lots of interaction. If you haven't already, post on the Sullivan list, too. Couldn't hurt. (Are you a chef specializing in Thanksgiving? Mmmmmm!) --- On Wed, 6/9/10, ButtrbaII@aol.com <ButtrbaII@aol.com> wrote: ...searching for information on a William Coyne...Believe William is? brother to Thomas G. Coyne, born 1837 Barryville... Pat ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:32:58 -0700 From: Dave & Liz DuBois <ddubois@sinclair.net> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <4C11BC7A.8070204@sinclair.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sue, Thank you for both of your responses. I have contacted the OCGS for their help. I've been a member for many years, hoping to find a very elusive Joseph Smith who lived in the Orange County area and then moved to Elmira, NY where he died in 1846. I'll check with the town and village historians for Hezekiah Mead. I keep hoping something new will emerge! Thanks for your good advice! Liz ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT) From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> Subject: [NYORANGE] Gertrude Barber headstone transcritions To: Sullivan List <NYSULLIV@rootsweb.com>, Orange List <NYORANGE@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <913635.94751.qm@web110013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was recently told about the work of Gertrude Barber and her mission to transcribe headstones, will indexes, some family Bibles, and newspaper items from Rockland County up into central NYS. Thanks! I recently discovered hat on HeritageQuest, they have armfuls of Ms Barber's typescript pamphlets from the 1930s-1940s online and download-able, 50 pages at a time. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE COPYRIGHT STATUS IS, as all these works fall with copyright protection. Perhaps she or her estate has given HQ permission, or because they are considered facts, which are not copyrightable, I don't know. When I get around to it, I plan to try to contact HQ about this. Anyhow, to get to HQ, ask your local librarian how to do this. You can access HQ from home, usually though your library's website - if they subscribe. Yours, Julia ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 22:15:34 -0700 (PDT) From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Gertrude Barber headstone transcritions To: nyorange@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <852142.46363.qm@web110001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I neglected to mention that I've been told that Barber had her fair share of errors in her typescripts. ------------------------------ To contact the NYORANGE list administrator, send an email to NYORANGE-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the NYORANGE mailing list, send an email to NYORANGE@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of NYORANGE Digest, Vol 5, Issue 71 ***************************************

I'm so glad you reminded me to mention that there's a need to search Ulster County for some of what became Orange county ... prior what was it, about 1800? > Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 09:24:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: juliasgenes <juliasgenes@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [NYORANGE] Advice, please! > > That's an excellent point you make, K Powell. NYS has what > seems like 1000s of counties. They kept being carved from > bigger ones or dissolved or land traded back and forth > between them - it was a real organic process. > > For a really cool animated map showing the evolution of NYS > counties, see "New York County Formation Maps" (just click > the little PLAY button):http://www.familyhistory101.com/maps/ny_cf.html > ?Note that among the twelve original Province of New York > counties is Dukes County - composed of Martha's Vineyard, > Nantucket, and the Elizabeth Islands!!! (Cape Codders never > believe me about this.) NY also included Vermont for a time, > so some NY records during that time period are held by > Vermont & vice versa. > > Isn't this fun? I wish ALL states at this site had > animations. > Julia .^_^. > > > --- On Fri, 6/11/10, K Powell <grannytoad@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > ...Elmira by then was part of Chemung Co but hadn't been > for long, had earlier been Tioga Co, where there's even a > Smithville...

Liz: The Old School Baptist Church and my ancestor the Elder James Benedict, who was the founder of the same, had a mission in life to spread the word of the gospel. Somewhere in my files, there is an article that discusses the many people who were leaving Warwick to do the work of the Lord. Some tried and failed in different locations, while others were successful. Elder James Benedict, (whose own father was also a preacher in CT.) was supposedly well respected by the Indians. He was spared during the Wyoming Massacre, and in fact, was informed the night before by Chief Joseph Brant, to leave his new church or perish. Both men were Free Masons, so this may have had something to do with their relationship. Many of the old colonials were freemasons, just as our Founding Fathers were. You may find info on the Free Mason web site about your ancestor. Elder Benedict's daughter, Jemima married into the Newberry family. Yes, they were Baptists, but religion in one time frame doesn't necessarily mean that they were always Baptists. Old School Baptists now days are almost extinct. Important founding families in the early colonial period of Warwick often came out of Duchess Co. My Newberrys all left Orange Co. beginning around 1820-1830, with the exception of the girls who married into local families. The migrations began, some say, because of the climate change and some say it was economic. Some of the Newberry brothers went back to Duchess Co. some to PA, and others to upstate N.Y. My ancestor James Newberry migrated to Ohio by way of Pennsylvania in 1819 and there he fell in with the Mormons. The Baptists honed in on Pennsylvania and moved through there first thing. Author/Historian Donna Bingham Munger has also done a wonderful series of books following land records. These detail families, townships and counties._http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Cp_27%3ADonna%20Bingha m%20Munger&field-author=Donna%20Bingham%20Munger&page=1_ (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=i:stripbooks,p_27:Donna%20Bingham%20Munger&field-author=Don na%20Bingham%20Munger&page=1) The boundary lines for N.Y. were fluid in those decades and didn't become static until later, especially on the southern and eastern reaches of the state. Some migrations were major, so check the Land Bounty Records for your ancestor. Try this web site _http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/_ (http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/) Land bounty rights were widely exercised during these movements. In the War of the Revolution, people were reimbursed with land bounties for property they may have lost in Connecticut or rewarded for their military service. Families of veterans were allowed to carry and apply these bounties in the northwestern territories and on the Connecticut Western Reserve in Ohio. My point is, leave no stone unturned. Checking more than one historian, i.e. town vs. village, will net you some gems. Often one crucial piece of evidence will turn up in an unexpected place. Another example of this turned up in my Iowa research. There were two courthouses in Lee County, IA. Both needed to be searched, and yes, both held important information. Information knows no boundaries or preferred archive. Cheers, Sue Sue, If 'my' Joseph Smith was related to the LDS one, they'd likely be cousins of some sort. My ancestor was a deacon in the Baptist church and when he moved to Elmira, he was active in the Baptist church there. In the obit for one of his daughters he was referred to as having been a "prominent citizen of Orange County". Do your books show him at all? Liz

K Powell <grannytoad@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I knew it wasn't that one, another Smith line I'm related to, they > went from MA to VT to Susquehannah PA to NY to OH &c. > > Baptist? 7th Day? The Hill bunch I'd mentioned came from MA through RI > generations then to Dutchess Co NY, then across the Hudson to Wallkill > ... before some moved up to Tioga/Chemung. The Smith line moved via > paddling his canoe & family up the Susquehanna to Tioga Co, NY, but > still not "the" polygamy Joe Smith. Definitely in the "for what its worth" category: Neither Joseph Smith (1805-1844), the founder and prophet, nor Joseph Smith (1832-1914), his son, were responsible for the doctrine of polygamy. That was introduced some 8 years after the death of Joseph Smith, Sr. In fact, Joseph Smith, Jr, preached against the doctrine of polygamy [p 568], stating that "it was wrong -- wrong in the sight of God, and against the teachings of the standard books of the church.". Mary Audentia (Smith) Anderson wrote in 1929: [p 75] Joseph Smith, Sr, founded the church in 1830, which was reorganized in 1852, and has been presided over by his descendants. "None of these are, or ever have been, identified with the church in the West which bears a similar name and to some of whose doctrines and practices, introduced after the death of the founder in 1844, they are unalterably and uncompromisingly opposed." See: "The Ancestry & Posterity of Joseph Smith and Emma Hale" by Audentia Smith Anderson; Independence, Mo.: Herald Pub. House, (1929) Best regards, Pam Sears

I knew it wasn't that one, another Smith line I'm related to, they went from MA to VT to Susquehannah PA to NY to OH &c. Baptist? 7th Day? The Hill bunch I'd mentioned came from MA through RI generations then to Dutchess Co NY, then across the Hudson to Wallkill ... before some moved up to Tioga/Chemung. The Smith line moved via paddling his canoe & family up the Susquehanna to Tioga Co, NY, but still not "the" polygamy Joe Smith. > Excerpted from  "The Ancestry & Posterity of > Joseph Smith and Emma Hale" > by Audentia Smith Anderson (1926) > > Founder, first president and Prophet of the Church of Jesus > Christ of > Latter-day Saints (Mormons). > In 1826 Joseph Smith [born 23 Dec 1805 in Sharon, Windsor, > VT] made the > acquaintance of Emma, the daughter of Isaac and Elizabeth > (Lewis) Hale, > well-to-do farmers living near Harmony (now Oakland), > Susquehanna Co., > PA. They were married at S. Bainbridge (now Afton), > Chenango Co., NY, in > the home of Esquire Tarbell, who performed the ceremony. > They lived > successively near _PALMYRA_ and Manchester, NY, and > Harmony, PA, where > in 1830 he was deeded twenty-eight acres of land by his > father-in-law, > copy of the transfer being still in the land offices of > that county. > Soon after this they moved to Kirtland, Lake Co., OH, and > in 1837, to > MO, and were among those who were forcibly driven from > Caldwell Co. in > 1838. In the spring of 1839 they established their home in > Commerce, now > Nauvoo, Hancock Co., IL, where they passed the rest of > their lives. > > > Best regards, > Pam Sears

Julia, For those of us on the west coast the idea of overlapping villages and towns is a bit confusing. When I saw that there was a town clerk and town historian, as well as a village clerk and a village historian listed for Warwick...well, it was difficult to know who would be the most likely source of information! Another Mead researcher went through the Orange County deeds several years ago without finding our folks, or so they say. I have not seen the deed indexes. Complicating the situation is the fact that while the Meads were in Warwick (1790, 1800), they seem to have been closer to the Orange/Rockland county line. When Rockland County was formed, they were on the Rockland side of the border. Our next step is a thorough search of the Rockland deeds and probates. And further muddying the waters is our growing realization that there were likely 3 Hezekiah Meads...3 generations. The middle one fought in the Rev. War but no one has joined the DAR based on his service. He is mentioned in many other DAR record applications, but none by a direct descendant. We've never visited New York...and we should as my father's family lived there from the Rev War until he and his parents moved to California in the 1930s. My thanks to all for helping me! Liz On 6/10/2010 10:34 PM, juliasgenes wrote: > Both??? > > The Village of Warwick (mercantile district& residential streets) is surrounded by the Town of Warwick. Towns in NY aren't like what you think of when you picture "small towns". They are usually larger, more rural bodies, several making up a county. They are what many other states call a "township". (I don't know if gigantic NYC, made up of 5 counties, has any Town organization.) > > At Marty Irons' urging, I went to the OC Surrogate Court in Goshen and found a small handful of the many folks I HOPED to find, but it was cool nevertheless and remarkably pain free. Thanks, Marty!!! > > While I was looking through the index book for L-Z, 1787-1898, I cruised past "Mead" and stopped to look. Between Mead/Meads/Meade, there are a bunch. The oldest is Nathaniel Mead of Cornwall, died 1807. The next listing chronologically was Josiah, d 1826. Maybe Marty can get some of the records if you want, as he seems to have the run of the place. He charges very little for the effort. > > Warwick is a very pretty Village AND Town, if you ever get to visit. > > Julia > > > --- On Thu, 6/10/10, Dave& Liz DuBois<ddubois@sinclair.net> wrote: > > ...there is both a town and a village named Warwick and each one has their > own historian. How do I determine which person I should be writing to? > > Liz > >

Thanks for straightening out my aging memory. Elmira - Palmyra, I should have looked it up first, but my library for that subject is in boxes in storage. Sue In a message dated 6/11/2010 6:05:37 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pjsears@stratos.net writes: Sue wrote: > Hi Liz: > > Boy, I wonder if this Joseph Smith you are looking for is related to the > family of Joseph Smith the founder and prophet of the LDS Church. It might > be a good lead to follow, because the Prophet Joseph Smith was involved at > Elmira, N.Y. I have some books that might help determine if this is the > case. There maybe be members of the LDS Church on the message board too, who > might have more info. ??? Check out family search for his pedigree. I am > sure it is prominent elsewhere on the web too. I > Sue To which Julia replied: > Are you sure he didn't move to PALMYRA? .^_^. > > Just kidding, of course. > > --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Dave & Liz DuBois <ddubois@sinclair.net <http://newmail.core.com/src/compose.php?send_to=ddubois%40sinclair.net>> wrote: > > ...Joseph Smith...moved to Elmira, NY > > Liz Excerpted from "The Ancestry & Posterity of Joseph Smith and Emma Hale" by Audentia Smith Anderson (1926) Founder, first president and Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). In 1826 Joseph Smith [born 23 Dec 1805 in Sharon, Windsor, VT] made the acquaintance of Emma, the daughter of Isaac and Elizabeth (Lewis) Hale, well-to-do farmers living near Harmony (now Oakland), Susquehanna Co., PA. They were married at S. Bainbridge (now Afton), Chenango Co., NY, in the home of Esquire Tarbell, who performed the ceremony. They lived successively near _PALMYRA_ and Manchester, NY, and Harmony, PA, where in 1830 he was deeded twenty-eight acres of land by his father-in-law, copy of the transfer being still in the land offices of that county. Soon after this they moved to Kirtland, Lake Co., OH, and in 1837, to MO, and were among those who were forcibly driven from Caldwell Co. in 1838. In the spring of 1839 they established their home in Commerce, now Nauvoo, Hancock Co., IL, where they passed the rest of their lives. Best regards, Pam Sears ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYORANGE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's an excellent point you make, K Powell. NYS has what seems like 1000s of counties. They kept being carved from bigger ones or dissolved or land traded back and forth between them - it was a real organic process. For a really cool animated map showing the evolution of NYS counties, see "New York County Formation Maps" (just click the little PLAY button):http://www.familyhistory101.com/maps/ny_cf.html  Note that among the twelve original Province of New York counties is Dukes County - composed of Martha's Vineyard, Nantucket, and the Elizabeth Islands!!! (Cape Codders never believe me about this.) NY also included Vermont for a time, so some NY records during that time period are held by Vermont & vice versa. Isn't this fun? I wish ALL states at this site had animations. Julia .^_^. --- On Fri, 6/11/10, K Powell <grannytoad@yahoo.com> wrote: ...Elmira by then was part of Chemung Co but hadn't been for long, had earlier been Tioga Co, where there's even a Smithville...

Dick, Thanks! I have that will and the probate records. In fact, that was the link that tied together those children with Joseph Smith. Until I found that about 10 years ago, all I knew was 'Smith'...not even a first name! Cheers, Liz On 6/11/2010 1:04 AM, Rich Hill wrote: > Liz, > > According to Sampubco.com there is a will on file in Chemung County for a > Joseph Smith of Elmira in the 1840's time period that would fit your guy. > Have you checked with the Surrogate's court there? > > Sampubco would only have the will from micriofilm. I would get the whole > estate file from Elmira. > > Dick Hillenbrand > Upstate New York Genealogy > www.UNYG.com/ > > > > > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 2:47 AM, Dave& Liz DuBois<ddubois@sinclair.net>wrote: > >> Sue, >> >> If 'my' Joseph Smith was related to the LDS one, they'd likely be >> cousins of some sort. My ancestor was a deacon in the Baptist church >> and when he moved to Elmira, he was active in the Baptist church there. >> In the obit for one of his daughters he was referred to as having been a >> "prominent citizen of Orange County". Do your books show him at all? >> >> Liz >> >> On 6/10/2010 10:17 PM, Goldsage@aol.com wrote: >>> H >>>

Aha! There you are, Dick! Greetings. --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Rich Hill <richhill58@gmail.com> wrote: ...will on file in Chemung County for a Joseph Smith of Elmira in the 1840's time period... Dick

Go to the NYS Library - Digital Collections.http://www.nysl.nysed.gov/scandocs/ Search for "Portrait and Biographical Record" - it features a slew of OC residents and in several volumes divided into 3 sections each, all download-able. The Index is inadequate; it only lists the names of the people who head the articles, not the myriad collateral people mentioned. Use digital searching for them. (By doing so, I discovered that my my G3GF, Joseph R Frantz, was a grocer in Frantzdale, divided by the border of Sullivan & Ulster Counties, now called Spring Glen.) Other books of historic & genealogical interest are downlad-able there, too. You may also find other helpful Orange County histories online at digital repositories like InternetArchive, GoogleBooks, and Cornell's New York State Historical Literature Collection, among others. OC church histories may have something about your Smith. Inquiry at the OC Genealogical Society to see if they have something for you or know where you could find the info. Joseph Smith isn't an easy name to pursue, especially with that overshadowingly famous  JS out there - it's even worse than John Johnson - and not Sir William's son! The best, Julia --- On Fri, 6/11/10, Dave & Liz DuBois <ddubois@sinclair.net> wrote: ... "prominent citizen of Orange County".  Do your books show him at all? Liz