Thanks for replying to the LIST, Diane. Jim Hartigan ----- Original Message ----- From: D Thomas To: [email protected] ; Jim Hartigan Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 5:31 PM Subject: Re: St. Mary's Jim, Thank you for your responses. I will check into it when I next visit Syracuse. I've spend many hours up in that library in the past. I agree about teaching kids respect, moreso this current generation. I have a Rev. War ancestor buried in the cemetery in Dewitt, behind the fire department and the P & C. Beer parties seem to go on there always. I cried when I saw the ruins of toppled over monuments and trash. I complained to the town of Dewitt, which was like blowing in the wind! Deaf ears. I had suggested that perhaps P & C might put up motion detector lites in the back to illuminate the cemetery when an "intruder" approached. After all, cock roaches don't like the light. Yet when I declined the hill, wiping away tears a man approached me and said, "ya know there's a Rev. War veteran buried up there". I told him, I knew that and that he was an ancestor. I had come to put flowers up there, and couldn't believe the amount of rubble and beer bottles up there, ! as well as discarded underwear. I was appauled. I spoke to one fireman and he said they tried to keep an eye on the cemetery, chasing off kids that sometimes get up in there. There's no gate up that little hill. Even the Kinne Cemetery down the road has had stones knocked over and stones destroyed with baseball bats or the like. I think lessons need to be given to kids as our parents taught us. Absolutely no running in a cemetery, and we walked between the rows, not leapfrogging over the stones. Thanks for your time, Jim. I appreciate it. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hartigan To: D Thomas Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:03 AM Subject: Re: St. Mary's Diane: The cemetery on the hill with the wrought iron fence was prob. old St Mary's. If you arrange to meet with Carl Roesch at Diocesan Archives you will see the list of those buried there. I do not know what happened to indiv. head stones, etc. and there are no names on the monument at New St. mary's. I have a 1960's newspaper pix & article of how the diocese tried to communicate with the descendants of the dead, most of whom were never reached because they allowed the cemetery to become a briar patch, moved away, etc. but mostly indifference. A lot of our immigrant ancestors could barely afford the plot let alone a monument. The record was crude and poorly recorded with minimum info. But this & St Joseph's were the only consecrated ground for a 15 mile radius. St Joseph's is on the flats of the North Side and my knowledge of it is not as complete. Assumption cemetery has the common grave with the monument. I believe the local history room , 5th floor library & research room of Onon Hist Assoc. have that listing. If you want the whole story I suggest you post my reply and your reply to the list. Jim Hartigan Camillus, NY Old St. Mary's is covered by the VA hospital. The sore subject goes on because the machinery and low wage personnel used to maintain our cemeteries are slowly and prematurely wearing them down. When a monument is jostled or topples it is neglected in spite of perpetual care. INDIFFERENCE is a killer of cemeteries. This is an open invitation for beer parties etc.and further destruction by the younger generation who was not taught respect and to honor their ancestors. Jim H ----- Original Message ----- From: D Thomas To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:53 AM Subject: St. Mary's Jim, I remember as a child visiting these cemeteries with my mother. I was shocked to read this about the Catholic cemeteries!! My Mom was adopted after the death of her parents; both tragic. He was beheaded on the railroad track in East Syracuse a few months before my mother's birth. Her mother, was on the way to a Billy Sunday and was killed by a drunk driver, pushing another daughter out of the way of the vehicle. Anyway, her adopted parents were Catholic, and there were other friends I guess, that were buried in St. Mary's & St; Joseph's. I moved out of NY back in the 70's, then back to Syracuse in the '80s and out again in the 90's. Since I lived out in the suburbs, I really didn't know the city of Syracuse and where certain buildings were, even though I had worked for a few years in Syracuse, near the MONY towers. However, I did not know that St. Marys & St. Joe's sold off the property. I had been brought to St. Mary's hospital with a school injury. Was the cemetery next to the hospital?? Were either of these cemeteries on a slight hill with black wrought iron fencing? I have this continual dream about this cemetery and my mom visiting it, but I am not sure what cemetery it was. The common monument you mentioned, could you tell me more about it? Are all the names and information listed on the monument? Were all the old headstones just .... destroyed? Is there something more I can find out/ read about these changes at the cemetery? I'm seeing more and more of that happening, especially when town/city expansion is lucrative. They recently dug up an old slave cemetery in MD, removing only a small number of "caskets" to make way for more townhouse. Yet someone I know, stated he had walked that cemetery years ago and presented a copy to the historical society as well as the local library and he had the only other copy. Well, his son went to the H.S. and the library where they were donated, and guess what.... no copies to be found. They said they never had record of donation of that information. Politics, I'm sure. Sorry to go on, but this is becoming a very sore subject to me, cemeteries being sold when the "deeds" for the plots of land were already given to others. We, and family generations before, have paid for our plots; our stones, perpetual care, that I find isn't perpetual at all, etc. and there is no comfort in knowing that the grandchildren may not be able to find their families even a few years from their own burials. So, if you could guide me as to where to find out more about these cemeteries, I would be grateful. Perhaps on my next visit to Syracuse in the Spring, I can look into it more, if I knew where to begin. Thanks for your time. Dianne Thomas