hi im just responding to the news report i have not seen the news report. i have only heard about on the site . A couple of years ago i set out to do something for my father that he had been wanting to do for a very long time almost 40 years or more. when he was married to his first wife they had a still born child a son times were very tough and he could not afford a stone or really a service for this infant the only thing he did do was buy a plot and a coffin and the baby was put in the ground he says the same day the baby was born his first wife a few years later died and then my father meet and married my mother and had me etc. all my life on memorial day we have gone to st marys and put graves on my ancester we have a family plot of four graves that have 6 people on them because my aunt and uncle have there grandchildren on top of them. the grandchildren died years after them but the cemetary were very generous in allowing the grieving parents of these children to be placed in safety with there grandparents. as for the other grave it is up on the children hill that no matter hoe many times i go there seeing all those little graves of children and believe me there are alot my eyes can not help but fill with tears but every year we go there and put flowers behind a grave that did not have my brothers name but only the memory of a man in his grieve remembers buring his child as i got older i saw it as my duty as a loving daughter to ease this mans grieve over not being able to put a stone on his sons grave so i set about doing just that i called st mary cemetary and the only thing i could tell them was that his name was Mathew Hemingway and that he died in the early 1960's because my father is much older now and does not remember as much the very next day st mary's called me back very nice people told me that they found Mathew they in turn told me the day and year he was buried which was in 1960 they then told me his parents names which were very correct and not info that i had sh! ared with them .i thank them and about a year later i took my father up to the grave to show him the stone on his son grave after all these years it gave him some peace and surprise surprise the stone was in the exact spot that we had been puting flowers for all of these years so i have to say that st mary's as a very great office personnal and if feel very strongly that if those two baby's are together the are there for a reason and not anything else sorry if i took up to much space but i felt it was a story that had to be told yours, donna barnes ' loving sister of mathew
> Cemetery laws have changed over the years and I’m not really up on > them, but I do know at one time two bodies could be buried in the same grave. This is definitely true at some of the Catholic cemeteries in Chicago. One of my ancestor's plots has 6 graves, but 12 burials (1870-1930s), all the same family. I was really surprised, but the cemetery guy explained that it was very common because of the scarcity of land for cemeteries. That prepared me for my next find... a plot with 12 graves and 36 burials (1860-1920s). These were mostly members of the same family, but also some people who were apparently friends or members of the same church. Jeanne
I don’t live in Syracuse, have never been to St. Mary’s Cemetery, and didn’t see the story on the T.V. news. I really hope the reporter of this story has done his, or her, homework well before they jumps to conclusions. I do genealogy and history research at one of the bigger cemeteries in New York and the fact that two still born children were buried in the same grave with an apparent stranger dose not surprise me that much. Things that seem strange to us now, may have made sense back then. Many times in our cemetery I’ll see a person (a lot of times a baby) buried in a family plot who has no connection with that family. People researching this family can’t understand who this person is and why they are buried in their family’s plot. But if you dig deep in the city records it could be a neighbor’s child and they couldn’t afford a burial so the family let them bury the person in their plot. Or, the person could have been from the same church and couldn’t afford a burial. Today not many people would do that, but long ago this happened more than you may think. Cemetery laws have changed over the years and I’m not really up on them, but I do know at one time two bodies could be buried in the same grave. Mothers who died at childbirth is a good example of that. That could still be permitted today, I’m not sure. I do know you can have one full body and one cremation in the same grave today. I don’t know if there was any wrong doing or not at St. Mary’s, but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions yet. At our cemetery, a few years ago, we had someone come in at night and bury a cremation without owning a lot. Sometimes strange things go on in cemeteries without the cemetery knowing. Ed
I tried your web site and was told it didn't exist any longer. Jean
In response to your email and to the News Report on WSTM Channel 3 last night, I have attempted to find the location of two stillborn infants and was successful. They died in 1923 and 1924. They are buried in a baby's section in St. Agnes. I found the news report to be quite harsh. There is a second part tonight, so I hope it further explains, but somehow I doubt it. The tone I saw last night was one of "let's see if we can cause another controversy in the Catholic Church." The individuals who are currently working at St. Mary's Cemetery and St. Agnes Cemetery are not the individuals who were in charge back in 1956. The current employees in all of the Cemeteries I have been going to for over 6 years doing my family Genealogy have been great! I also have had good luck contacting funeral homes when I need information. They also are very gracious. I wasn't alive in 1956, so I cannot comment on the individuals who were involved at that time. I can speak of my family's two stillborn infants. On their death certificates, one informant was an RN, the other was my Grandfather. Both infants were buried the day after they were born. Both are in a baby's section in one of the Catholic Cemeteries and were cared for by McCarthy Funeral Home. Did this family obtain the death certificate for their Mother's stillborn infant? It would be interesting to see who was the informant. I do know that Catholics were to be buried in concencrated ground, so stillborn infants born to Catholic parents or parent, should be buried in a holy place, such as one of the Catholic Cemeteries. I also have found out that if a Catholic person loses a limb to an amputation, that body part also should be buried in a Catholic Cemetery, or other ground blessed by a Priest. I do wonder if in 1956 if the hospital, or the mother or father chose to do anything with the stillborn infant. Possibly they gave the funeral home the exclusive rights to care for the infant the way they normally did. Did the family pay for the stillborn infant to be buried? Or, did the Director of the funeral home, Mr. Quinn, take the responsibility for all of the stillborn infants because no one else would? The new report said he did this service "free of charge" If the Mr. Quinn, Director of the funeral home, was the only one who cared for these stillborn infants enough to give them a proper Baptism, funeral and eternal home in a Catholic Cemetery (in this case) all families should be grateful that their stillborn infant was treated with respect and love. They were not placed in a dumpster. (How many people have done that with their newborn infants?) They were not treated as medical waste and disposed of in that matter either. They were a person and they were buried. I have learned of others who have not been buried, who have died many years ago, but the families never followed through. They are still waiting for an eternal resting place. At least these stillborn infants were given a proper burial. Now, did the Ryder family agree to have these infants buried in their plot? I don't know. Was there some type of familiarity between these families? I don't know. Was Mr. Ryder buried by the same funeral home, I don't know. Was the cost of the stillborn infants burial in Mr. Ryder's grave paid for separately? There are many instances where one plot with 6 graves have one or two graves purchased by someone who is not related. Let me explain. Say the Smith family purchased graves number 1, 2, 3, and 4... but Mr. Jones purchased graves 5 and 6 in lot 142 in section 209. So, it would look like Mr. Jones was buried in the Smith lot, but not really. Also, people are not buried in the same order of the grave numbers either. It all depends on how the family wants people placed in the ground near each other. I recently discovered that one of my relatives decided to give two burial plots back to the Cemetery for the use of someone who would otherwise not be able to afford to purchase a place to be buried. His brother who was killed tragically in the early 1900s at age 18 is buried there along with his mother, who died in 1927. Then there was this woman who only lived in Syracuse for 4 months. She was from South Carolina. It appears she was also of a different race than my family. I couldn't discover a connection. But then I saw this letter that spoke of this nice donation. I think its great that they are buried together. Could the Ryder family have agreed to do the same thing? Could they have said yes to burying two stillborn infants with their loved one? Unless his next of kin is still alive, we will probably never know. The two sisters who were on TV should have thought about the fact that their sibling was indeed buried, and buried under the stillborn infant's family name. They are not an unknown, they were treated as a person. The infant was not treated like trash. The infant was given a proper burial after being baptized. Mr. Quinn did treat that infant as a person and with respect and love. The infant was not abandoned or forgotten. It should be a relief that the infant was not lost forever. The infant can be located. The infant is buried with a name. I am not sure if the Mother is still alive or not. If she is, she should be asked what arrangements she and her husband made at the time of the birth for the stillborn infant. If they didn't make any arrangements, then she should be grateful that someone cared, Mr. Quinn, to see that the stillborn infant was properly cared for. He did this service "free of charge" according to the news report, remember. If the Mother and Father didn't pay for a burial, they really cannot complain about what happened to their stillborn infant. The real fault may lie with the hospital, not the Cemetery or the Funeral Home. Rest in Peace Anne Ruggeri Brewerton, NY
Hi all, On the local NBC station here in Syracuse, there was a report this evening about the fact that two stillborn babies were buried in the very same grave as another person who died the next day -- apparently unbeknownst to the family of the stillborn child. This happened in St. Mary's Cemetery back in 1956. It sounds like there will be a bit of an investigation into whether that situation occurred at other times as well. I don't know if anybody from this list has ever tried to find the grave for a stillborn at St. Mary's before, but if you have and you were unsuccessful, this practice may very well be the reason why. As I myself have no ancestors who ever lived in this area, I've never really had much of a reason to go to St. Mary's before, but it is very close to where I live, so I once went there to test out a new digital camera back in 2002. Oh, the reporter who related the story said that a search for relatives of the man in whose grave the two stillborns were buried had not been located. His name (if I recall correctly) was William RYDER. If any of you are related to this William RYDER, I'm sure the reporter would love to contact you for a reaction from the family. -- Mary Taffet in Syracuse (where I can almost see the driveway again, though the front sidewalk is still covered in snow)
Hello Folks: I have had a number of people ask about how to find the website for Histories of Onondaga County. I had perviously posted the site as www.GenealogyCD.com but that site no longer works. You can now locate the publisher at: http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=85443626&ssPageName=L2. The contents of the disk is posted below: Bill Casey PO Box 36 Apulia Station, NY 13020 [email protected] 315 683-5674 http://www.fabiusny.org Genealogy & History of ONONDAGA COUNTY, NY 4019 Pages of Information CD Contents Onondaga, or, Reminiscences of earlier and later times : being a series of historical sketches relative to Onondaga, with notes on the several towns in the county and Oswego Syracuse N.Y.: Stoddard and Babcock, 1849, Clark, Joshua V. H., 805 pgs. .. History of Onondaga County, New York : with illustrations and biographical sketches of some of its prominent men and pioneers Syracuse, N.Y.: D. Mason, 1878, Clayton, W. W., 610 pgs. .. Onondaga's centennial : gleanings of a century Boston: The Boston History Company, 1896, Bruce, Dwight H., 1996 pgs. .. Mortuary records with genealogical notes of the town of Spafford, Onondaga County, New York Syracuse, N.Y.: Onondaga Historical Association, 1917, Collins, George Knapp, 286 pgs. .. Revolutionary soldiers resident or dying in Onondaga County, N.Y. : with supplementary list of possible veterans based on a pension list of Franklin H. Chase, Syracuse, N.Y. Syracuse, N.Y.: McDonnell Co., 1913, Beauchamp, William Martin, 309 pgs. .. Historical account of the origin and progress of the Onondaga County Orphan Asylum, established in 1841 : located in the city of Syracuse, N.Y. Syracuse, N.Y.: Standard Pub. Co., 1876, 13 pgs. A Bit about the CDs These Cds offer the home researcher the opportunity to own resources, at a reasonable price, which are usually only available in regional history libraries or unavailable at all due to their fragile or deteriorating condition. Each CD-ROM contains actual page images from the original books. They are produced by scanning the original texts making them not only excellent resources but archival copies available for future generations. The age of most of these text make them unreadable under normal conditions as well as very expensive to own due to their limited distribution. Unless stated otherwise they are not text searchable. They contain an extensive bookmark feature that makes it very easy to find the pages you want. Additionally adobe now offers, on the PC version, a feature called the "paper catcher". It will convert about 98% (according to adobe) of all pdf images into searchable text. It uses a process called OCR (Optical Character Recognition) which "reads" the image and converts it into text. With this new feature you can convert individual pdf files to a searchable text. For further information please contact adobe at <A HREF="http://www.adobe.com/support/readguide.html">http://www.adobe.com/support/readguide.html</A>. CD Editions are delivered by first class mail, on Compact Disk. They will be in Adobe Acrobat® (pdf) or HTML Format, depending on the edition. If you do not have a copy of Adobe Reader it is supplied on each CD. CDs work with both major operating systems -- Windows and MAC OSX This CD-ROM uses Adobe Acrobat reader. If you do not have Adobe Acrobat Reader it is provided, Free of charge, on every CD.
In the 1865 census "index" it lists Joseph Neider vistation # 195 Charles J. Neider visitation # 196 If anyone has the 1865 census and could do a lookup it is very much appreciated! I am trying to determine if my ggg grandmother was still alive at that time. She would have been 75 yrs old. Thank You! Carol
Sheri, I'm going to try and delete all the space entities in your message so that it is more readable, but might not be successful in that effort. Anyways, while I don't have a copy of that book, I know someone who does -- I got a copy of another entry from her. I will give you her name and contact information off-list (when I get home this evening); I found her through the NYC-ROOTS mailing list. -- Mary Taffet [email protected] On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 [email protected] wrote: > Encyclopedia - 1875 - 1936 > > > This is a long shot -- There is FRED JEWELL listed in the above book -- > 2 volumes . Before I go running around to find these - thought I would > give the list a shot. If anyone has this would you please send me the > info in the article on HIM . > > thanks list > sheri > >
Encyclopedia -&nbsp; 1875 - 1936&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This is a long shot --&nbsp; There is& nbsp; FRED JEWELL listed in the above book -- 2 volumes . Before I go running around to find these - thought I would give the list a shot . If anyone has this would you please send me the info in the article on HIM . thanks list sheri
Good idea! This book is also available on microfilm at your local LDS Family History Center. Go to FamilySearch.com to find the film number. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [NYOnonda] 1878 Book > Before you buy this book, you might try looking at it in CD version. It is > available from GenealogyCDs.com. for under $20. > > > > Bill Casey > Fabius Historical Society > PO Box 36 > 1136 Berry Road > Apulia Station, NY 130200036 > [email protected] > http://www.fabiusny.org > >
Before you buy this book, you might try looking at it in CD version. It is available from GenealogyCDs.com. for under $20. Bill Casey Fabius Historical Society PO Box 36 1136 Berry Road Apulia Station, NY 130200036 [email protected] http://www.fabiusny.org
Anita, I live outside of tampa and would love to have that book if it is reasonable. Thank You. Carol
I was at the Tampa (Fl.) Antiquarian Books & Collectibles yesterday and the owner showed me this book on Onondaga County, printed in 1878: ... History of Onondaga County, New York. With illus. and biographical sketches of some of its prominent men and pioneers. By Prof. W.W. Clayton. Published in Syracuse, N.Y., D. Mason & Co., Printers Journal Office, 1878. 430 pp. of sketches and plates of portraits of citizens, their homes, map, etc.. front. plates (part fold) portraits, map. This is the history of Onondaga County from 1615-1878. While the binding is in poor condition and will need to be rebound, some pages are loose, the pages themselves appear to be in very good condition and the portraits and descriptions are wonderful. Some show the citizens with their house or farm pictured. Very nice maps. I have an 1894 Biographical Review of the Leading Citizens of Madison County (which I am slowly transcribing at: http://mysite.verizon.net/ingallsa/biotitl.htm but I must say this book is even better than that. If anyone is interested in this book, or may know of who might be, please pass on this information. The owner can be contacted directly at Tampa Antiquarian Books & Collectibles, 6306 North Armenia Ave., Tampa, Fl. 33604, (813) 871-3919. No e-mail there ... the owners are retiring soon and run a very crowded old fashioned bookstore. If anyone talks to them, but wants to see a photo of the book, I'll be glad to go back with my digital camera and send on some photos. It is truly a treasure. Anita Ingalls
I am looking for Andy Zachow he sent me a letter about the Clemens family. Every time I send him an email at [email protected] it is sent back undeliverable. If any one knows him please have him email me. Thank you Sandy
George B. Congdon (He was born in Otisco, Onondaga County, New York, April 9, 1835.) Regions: Otisco, Onondaga Co., NY; Beaver Dam, Dodge Co., WI Source: An Illustrated History of the State of Wisconsin by Tuttle, 1875. Can view at http://darcisplace.com/darci/congdon.htm Darci --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.572 / Virus Database: 362 - Release Date: 1/27/2004
Where does one check for information at the House of Providence? Thanks Lauren -----Original Message----- From: Darlene Brant [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYOnonda] RE: Thomas Gilmore/ Margaret Cullen Hi, I am seeking information on Thomas GILMORE and his wife Margaret CULLEN . They had one know child my grandfather William Richard GILMORE. His death record states he was born 17 Nov 1894 in Split Rock . A check for a birth record in the Onondaga Co Vital Records office came back with no record. Margaret had 2 known sisters Anna and Helen CULLEN. William also spent time in the House of Providence Orphan Asylum from 18 Feb 1898 - 22 Jan 1908 when his Aunt Miss Anna Cullen got him. A further check of the House of Providence show no further information. Any information helpful. Thank you. Darlene Widger-Brant [email protected] ______________________________
I am researching the families listed above and would appreciate any info you might have. Thanks---Toni
Hello all: It has been quite some time since I made a blatant pitch to remind one and all of the wondrous resources for all of Central New York that are found on my web pages for Cazenovia, Fenner and Nelson (Madison Co., NY) History Pages. It is a RootsWeb page, but not being a county page I often get overlooked. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyccazen/ I've recently added a number of new web pages containing a portion of my vast collection of newspaper notes, and I am always adding new materials. My greatest effort of late is just keeping the pages up to date and correct, so be sure to keep coming back for a visit to see what else I've added in the way of new pages, or updates to older pages! The pages are fully indexed on www.google.com, and I have an up-to-date search function on my front page. The sheer bulk of material is the only drawback to doing a search for what you are after! Dan W.
In a message dated 2/6/2004 8:23:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I am seeking information on Thomas GILMORE and his wife Margaret CULLEN . They had one know child my grandfather William Richard GILMORE. His death record states he was born 17 Nov 1894 in Split Rock . A check for a birth record in the Onondaga Co Vital Records office came back with no record. Have you tried the Town Clerk's office in the TOWN of Onondaga? Some of the towns began keeping vital records before the County of Onondaga and the State of New York did. Diane Wilson Flynn