Don't know if this is of help, however I found a Joseph and "Ellen" with family including Edward born 1875, in Utica in the 1880. Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Race Age Birthplace Occupation Father's Birthplace Mother's Birthplace Joseph SMITH Self M Male W 39 NY Boiler Maker FRANCE FRANCE Ellen SMITH Wife M Female W 33 NY Keeping House IRE IRE Maggie SMITH Dau S Female W 8 NY NY NY Clara SMITH Dau S Female W 6 NY NY NY Edward SMITH Son S Male W 5 NY NY NY Emma SMITH Dau S Female W 3 NY NY NY Joseph SMITH Son S Male W 2 NY NY NY Charles SMITH Son S Male W 5M NY NY NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Source Information: Census Place Utica, Oneida, New York Family History Library Film 1254904 NA Film Number T9-0904 Page Number 138D Jenn In a message dated 6/16/2004 10:07:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Edward Smith, son of Joseph and Bridgett Ellen Cragen Smith, was born about 1875 in Utica. He died in Feb. 1940 in Utica. Wife was Elizabeth Kratzenberg who survived him. I'm seeking living descendants and ancestry of Edward. issue: Lillian M. Mauthe, Pearl Kunkel, Esther DeGraff. Bridgett Cragen was born ca 1845 in Ireland and died 28 Feb. 1889. She was the dau. of Patrick Cragen and Honora (Nora)___Cragen. I have additional information on the family of Patrick and Honora. I've been unable to identify Honora's maidenname. She was b. ca 1818 in Ireland and d. 23 Nov. 1889 in Utica. Witnesses of her will were Maggie Mc Namara and Mary Mahar. Maggie Mc Morrow also signed a deposition in her Honora's Will. I need to identify these women. Dee ==== NYONEIDA Mailing List ==== Contact the List Manager at [email protected] Oneida Co Surname page http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~myplace/oneida.html List Rules http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~myplace/mailing.html Oneida Co Genealogical & Historical Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyoneida/