I must say that for having just subscribed to this digest and having received others for awhile, that this is the most interesting conversation it has been my pleasure to receive. Having a possible connection to the Plantagenet line and knowing something of Charlemagne from history makes this so. I have been hearing more and more about 'grabbing' ancestors just for the sake of doing so and producing a genealogy that is untracable and therefore unprovable. What satisfaction this gives the collector I am not sure. I have found following the clues, solving the riddles, finding the elusive ancestor to be the most satisfying and being a genealogy detective very rewarding. It isn't just about finding the people, it's about using the history of the times as well. Through that we can learn much about what our ancestors dealt with, how they lived, and what they did through church and vocation are valuable knowledge to genealogists. If you find a famous ancestor in there, that was well documented for the times, what a treasure to hit upon! As for me, right now, I am stuck on a particular woman by the name of Barsha Cheney. She lived in Vienna, Oneida Co, NY in 1850 with what was most likely her son, William W. Cheney, her age at the time was 75. On the 1850 census the surname was spelled Cheeny, but this is the only place I have found that spelling used for this particular family. William married Betsy Eckel and they had several children, Louisa, George, Ephraim, Emiline, William, and Lorenzo. About 1862 the entire family moved to Iowa. What I don't know about this family is who was Barsha's husband/father (her given name may be suspect as well, it is the closest I could decifer from the census) William may have been born out of wedlock. I do know that both William and Barsha are recorded as being born in Vermont on that particular census. Another family that lived in the same place at that time were Lofft's. They tie in because Louisa Cheney married two Lofft boys. The first one, John, she married in NY, perhaps right in Vienna, and the second Robert (aka William--long story) after she had moved with her family to Iowa. The Lofft family was comprised of Edward, b. England, (father); Hellen, b. Ireland, (mother); children were William, Robert, John, Joseph, Charles, Edward, and daughter Francis. If anyone could please help me with any information on these two families, and especially Barsha, it would be most appreciated. Cindy Anderson