While I do not make any claim to be descended from Charlemagne, the storied emperor of the west, I would only go so far as to say that while there are certainly many invalid claims to decent from him and from Alfred the Great and William of Normandy and various and sundry other medieval magnates, there are also quite a few that appear to be valid enough. The reason I think has to do with Charles Martel, Charemagne's grandfather. He was a natural son of Pippin of Heristal, mayor of the paplace to various and sundry Merovingian kings (this is all French history) and his father's wife, Plecturde, when Pippin died, natrally enough wanted to promote her own progeny in place of those of a rival. Charles Martel, who apparently was not raised in the palace was imprisoned and gained a rather violent and war like disposition (prisons were rougher then). Coupled with an impecable sense of strategy he broke out, acquired his step mother's royal treasure and proceeded to take over Germany and France piece by piece and with great vioence (stopping the Arab invasion of Europe at Tours in 732 AD). The local nobility and gentry, many of whom supported his step mother's claims or those of a rival house, he replaced with his relatives and followers, initiating a Carolingian tradition that was to persist another 300 years. A local magnate or baron greatly enhanced his security by marrying a Carolingian or the daughter of one. Since Charles was the third one to really follow this policy, most of the nobility of France and Germany can trace its "roots" to Charlemagne (Since Charlemagne had a number of children who in turn hhad a number of children and the Carolingians were never exterminated the way a lot of royal dynasties were but went out with a whisper so to speak) they literally have hundreds of millions of descendants at this point (Assuming one generaltion per 25 years a person born today today mathematically speaking would have ancestors in the number of 2 times itself 50 times less one person. The odds on a person of European extraction, particularly the British Isles or Western Europe, not having a Carolingian ancestor, ie Charlemagne, are remote) The Carolingians are known to history to have been ancestors of the Angevins, the Dukes of Brittany and their subordinate counts, the Norman house, the Poitevin House, the Savoyards, the Dukes of Flanders and all of the other sorts whose younger sons followed William to England in 1066. Even before that there were a couple of Carolingian women who were married to Saxons who were felt to merit such a match (times were different). The old Carolingian custom of securing your lords favor by marrying one of his daughters was continued under the Normans and Plantagenets and Tudors for the next 400 years. There were literally hundreds of families who had a drop or two of Carlemmagne's blood by 1600 and it was not thought at that point to be anything impressive (Ties to more recent monarchs, Plantagenet and Tudor, and their magnates were more useful in those days). We know they were useful because in the Tudor period combination of the development of the nglish wool trade with the low countries which had been developing since the 1300's and the arrival of the Rennaissance transformed British society and economy and a number of families who did not have the necessary connections or could not prove them fabricated them. This is always an area to be careful of when looking at the Heraldic Visitations that went on in that era to establish just who was supposed to be who. Most of them are legitimate enough and a little boring but if you take some of them at face vale you have people with French Norman ancestors in England or Scotland in the 800's or 900's and that simply was not the case. Such skullduggery notwithstanding, younger sons of the nobility and more often of the gentry began to enter trade and some of them became enamoured of the new Calvinist doctrines that were appearing at Cambridge and elsewhere. Some of these people were part of the great Puritan, Quaker and other migrations that came to America in the 1600's and 1700's. I won't try here (on the Oneida page) to say which ones I would think are right or wrong and I don't think my opinion would be of much value as that is not particularly my specialty (though it is an interest) However the Book The Plantagenet Ancestry of Edward III and Phillipa of Hainault by George Moriarity (published back in the '50's I think) is pretty good I think though much material has since been expanded by other researchers, primarily Medieval historians. Weiss Ancestral Roots of 60 colonists is pretty standard and they used to reissue that every few years when they found that a pedigree could not be supported or when they found a new connection. Also, Falaise Roll is quite interesting for its information on the French ancestries of Norman knights and soldiers whoi came with aor afte William I to England (Moriarity didn'T like the English information and they generously put his criticism of the work in a postscript so that readers would get both sides of the story). Those three works are pretty sound. There are a lot of unsound works out there (Including one I suspect by the reigning head of the House of Stewart, a young Belgian named Michael, ad the only part I take issue with is that I have never heard of the Breton ancestors of the Stewards of Dol and Dinan prior to the year 900, but then maybe that information was handed down in his family. For 1000 years. That's a joke.) Certainly for the Oneida page, the relevance of Charlemagne, except as a conversation topic among us, is probably limited. But I would only go so far as to say that while it is always wise to view any claim to a pedigree dating back 1250 years with a certain healthy caution, such pedigrees do exist even in America (I will say Moriarity demonstrated his tie to Charlemagne through Edward III and thence through the Neville family fairly convincingly) The key thing is always I believe to approach each piece of information with an open mind and such background as we can bring to the study of that information so that we can make a judgment as to whether we are able to believe it or not. No doubt the best American pedigrees to Charlemagne are supported by documentation at every step. Many pedigrees of 100 or 150 years are much harder to document given the hard conditions on the American frontier. I have a couple of Oneida ancestors [Harriet Balkeslee of Kirkland b. 1804 and Giles Judson of Vernon born 1824] from the first half of the nineteenth century that are proving more of a challenge to find parents for than connecting to Charlemagne would likley be and though I have my ideas about it I am going to sternly resist the temptation to assume more than I ought to and with all of your help I hope to properly identify these people. That is the most improtant priciple which peoples observations have reinforced for me in this intersting exchange. My problems are a lot more recent than Charlemagne. I wrote the foregoing mainly because I enjoy early medieval history as well as genealogy and it was a chance to talk about it [which does not come often]. In return I have received from the others who commented a reminder that it is important to be cautious about trusting far flung and fabulous assertions of relationship and undocumented sources that I promise personally to take to heart. Grady Loy

Hi all, The relationship to Charlemagne really isn't that far fetched. We probably all are. According to a lecture from a former pres. of our genealogical society statistically we all must be related. If you figure you have two parents, four grandparents, then 8, then 16, then 32 etc. it doesn't take that long to get up into very large numbers. Eventually you get to a number that is larger than the population on the earth at that time in history. So we all can't have unique sets of ancestors. And if you have a European ancestor you could probably trace them back to Charlemagne and others. Now the proof and original documents might be a little harder! For me I would like to find my Oliver Hazard Perry Carman born in Utica, N.Y. in 1834. Anyone know of him? Carol Carman CCarman114@aol.com

The Charlamaigne thing is hardly "news". Many years ago someone created a whole book of "descendants" of Charlemagne in it one could find lines that led to almost everyone who ever lived - most of us ignored it than and most of us ignore it now! Genealogy is full of chuckles, having them on the internet neither enhances nor diminishes them!! As for bogus pedigrees they have abounded, always. Can you imagine what will happen in 100 years when descendants try to follow blood lines where the female parent uses one surname and the male parent uses another and the child can have either surname or a combination of both while there are multiple marriages for most everyone involved, not to mention adoption!! what a nightmare. Makes the Charlemaigne problem seem tame since that elicits chuckles rather than hair-pulling. Agnes > >Hmm, My doctor (now retired) in Concord, MA told me he believed he >was descended from Charlemagne! And his name was Leroy P. Houck! > >Rick >Merrill . How many bogus Pedigrees are going to be bandied about because of >> the excitment overcoming a little common sense , I have already seen one guy >> that got himself back to ' Charlemagne ' in 750 whatever , Can you just >> imagine the problems for the Future Genealogist ...... , Phil in Lynnwood >> WA USA >>

Hmm, My doctor (now retired) in Concord, MA told me he believed he was descended from Charlemagne! And his name was Leroy P. Houck! Rick Merrill Ps60yo@aol.com wrote: > on this date in 1830 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was > founded by Joseph Smith in Fayette N Y ..... you should all wish them a Happy > Anniversary ! , BUT , please not on the list .... And while I am on the > subject of the LDS , I really hope all you people now searching their > website for your relatives use a little restaint , > Please don`t assume that every body with your Surname is connected to you , > I am dreading the Outcome of all these research projects that are taking > place ... How many bogus Pedigrees are going to be bandied about because of > the excitment overcoming a little common sense , I have already seen one guy > that got himself back to ' Charlemagne ' in 750 whatever , Can you just > imagine the problems for the Future Genealogist ...... , Phil in Lynnwood > WA USA > > ==== NYONEIDA Mailing List ==== > Contact the List Manager at judjack@rocketmail.com or judjack@hotmail.com For List Rules visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/1006 click on Mailing List Visit the Oneida Co NYGenWeb Page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyoneida

Hi all, I have a William MURPHY born 19 July 1848 in Florence, NY. His father was born about 1800 in County Limerick in Ireland and died Mar 6 1900 I believe in Florence. I believe his name was also William. His mother was Nora Bohen born about 1811 in County Cork in Ireland and died 1877 I believe in Florence. This data was taken from a note I have that William Murphy wrote. I have searched the census for 1850 and 1860 without finding a positive match. I have his death certificate listing his birth date as 1850 with the data supplied by his wife. Does anyone on this list have any connection to this William Murphy? Thank You, Don Houck

on this date in 1830 the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was founded by Joseph Smith in Fayette N Y ..... you should all wish them a Happy Anniversary ! , BUT , please not on the list .... And while I am on the subject of the LDS , I really hope all you people now searching their website for your relatives use a little restaint , Please don`t assume that every body with your Surname is connected to you , I am dreading the Outcome of all these research projects that are taking place ... How many bogus Pedigrees are going to be bandied about because of the excitment overcoming a little common sense , I have already seen one guy that got himself back to ' Charlemagne ' in 750 whatever , Can you just imagine the problems for the Future Genealogist ...... , Phil in Lynnwood WA USA

These Whitaker brothers were in Colesville, NY around 1828. Can anyone tell me what Whitaker line they are from? Joyce Tanno Hansen pandjhansen@home.com MZ

Greeting Oneidans! I was wondering if Camden had a newspaper of its own in the 1860s and on, or if perhaps the Rome Sentinel would be better for trying to get an obituary for Caroline COOPER COLE who was from North Bay. She was married to Thomas GOODING COLE Jr. Sept. 15, 1872. She died at McConnellsville May 14, 1882(probably giving birth to Homer who apparently died as well). Their eldest child was my paternal grandfather Edward Alden COLE. I would appreciate any help I can get as this is a brick wall. Regards, David in N.W. Florida a native Oneidan

Does anyone have a Rhoda Eddy b. 1806 in NY? She married Alvin Denison and she is buried in Wright Settlement Cemetery. EOMO@aol.com

My GGG grandmother was Hannah Eddy, who was born 12 May 1769. She married Simeon Meacham, a Rev. War Vet. She died 31 Dec. 1803. This would make her probably one generation older than your George. I have not yet begun to research her line, but there were other Eddy families living near her and her husband in Paris, Oneida Co., NY in 1800. Her son, George Washington Meacham, was born 18 June, 1799 (about 6 months before Pres. George Washington died). I can't tell you much, but when I start looking for Hannah's line, I'll begin in Western (Warren), Worcester County, MA. That is where Simeon Meacham was born. George W. Meacham moved to Cass Co., MI, in the 1820's. His father and probably his stepmother, Lydia Calkins (or Palkins) also went to Cass. Co., somewhat later. You may check and see if there are Eddy's there. Wish I could tell you more. Erva Hitchcox Barton My gggg grandfather was George W. EDDY (I'm betting a nickel that the W. stands for Washington) who was born in 1801 in New York.

Hello List, I am a descendant of John Lambert MARTIN and Maria FISKE. They were married in 1838 and went on to produce thirteen children. They lived outside of Clinton their entire lives. People with family names of MARTIN, WILKINSON, BLISS, HALL, PARMELEE, and WHITE, may be descended from him. I am trying to reach any living descendants to fill in missing information. I have quite a lot already, so I may be able to help you if you see a connection. Sincerely, Russ Martin Formerly of Clinton, N.Y.

I am submitting this to a few different New York lists, so please forgive me if you receive duplicates. This is a big time shot in the dark, but I'm leaving no stone unturned. I am trying to knock down my brick wall. My gggg grandfather was George W. EDDY (I'm betting a nickel that the W. stands for Washington) who was born in 1801 in New York. When he was young, his parents died and he was left in the care of an uncle who was apparently cruel to him. He left and went to sea for 7 years. When he returned, he spent some brief time in North Carolina and then Virginia where he married Lucinda "Lucy" TAYLOR (daughter of Solomon Taylor and Sarah LANGSTON) around 1828-1830. They spent some time in White Co. TN, where my ggg grandfather, John A. EDDY was born and soon moved again and settled in Allen Co, KY. I am guessing that my George's father's name was either George or John, as my George named his first son John A. and his second son, George W. I have been doing some 1800 census lookups in New York and have found a few different John EDDYs. Two of which were living in Oneida County. This is why I'm looking here. I'm trying to get further back than this. Since I know his parents died when he was young, I'm assuming they were dead by or around 1810 or so. I don't know if there were other siblings of George, who were living with this uncle also or not. Does this sound familiar to anyone out there? Does it fit any family situations at the time. I would like to hear from anyone who has EDDYs during this time. Also, if anyone has any suggestions as to where I might go next I would welcome them? Thank you in advance. I look forward to hearing from you.

This was in reply to my earlier post asking about Peacocks - and I thank Roy for this help. Does anyone know who might have put up these stones - is there any Pioneer Settlers group who could have done so? Is there any one who can check a copy of "Our County and Its People" which is about Oneida County, for the surname 'Peacock'. I have a one page extract from that publication's family sketches that concerns Adelbert G. Gypson - who was a Peacock descendant. Agnes E. Cloninger aggie@rmci.net _________________________________ >From: Roy Crego <rcrego@nac.net> >Agnes, > >There are some Peacocks buried at West Branch Cemetery, Town of Lee, >Oneida Co. that came from Yorkshire. >The rather new headstones read: > >Jonathan Peacock >1752 - 1828 >York, England >Pioneer Settler of Oneida Co >1805 > >Mabel Robinson >1759 - 1830 >York, England >Wife of Jonathan > >Jonathan is probably the J. Peacock on page 462 of the 1810 Census of >Oneida Co. > >Hope this is of interest. > >Roy >

Agnes, There are some Peacocks buried at West Branch Cemetery, Town of Lee, Oneida Co. that came from Yorkshire. The rather new headstones read: Jonathan Peacock 1752 - 1828 York, England Pioneer Settler of Oneida Co 1805 Mabel Robinson 1759 - 1830 York, England Wife of Jonathan Jonathan is probably the J. Peacock on page 462 of the 1810 Census of Oneida Co. Hope this is of interest. Roy ---------- From: Agnes E. Cloninger[SMTP:aggie@rmci.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 5:14 PM To: NYONEIDA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYONEIDA-L] Gypson and or Nalton Matthew William NALTON b 1836 d 1866 in Westmoreland m Zilpha GYPSON 19 Mar 1857 in Westmoreland, Oneida Co., NY. She was the daughteer of Benjamin Gypson and Ellen Peacock who had been born in Yorkshire England and came to the US with some children but Zilpha was born here. Would like to know if anyone is searching the NALTON's,who might know more about Matthew, or anybody connected to either of these families. Have info to share. Nalton's were also English. There were several Matthew Naltons with father's named Thomas living about the same time in the same area, but need to know which is which Agnes E. Cloninger aggie@rmci.net ==== NYONEIDA Mailing List ==== Contact the List Manager at judjack@rocketmail.com or judjack@hotmail.com For List Rules visit http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/1006 click on Mailing List Visit the Oneida Co NYGenWeb Page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyoneida

Matthew William NALTON b 1836 d 1866 in Westmoreland m Zilpha GYPSON 19 Mar 1857 in Westmoreland, Oneida Co., NY. She was the daughteer of Benjamin Gypson and Ellen Peacock who had been born in Yorkshire England and came to the US with some children but Zilpha was born here. Would like to know if anyone is searching the NALTON's,who might know more about Matthew, or anybody connected to either of these families. Have info to share. Nalton's were also English. There were several Matthew Naltons with father's named Thomas living about the same time in the same area, but need to know which is which Agnes E. Cloninger aggie@rmci.net

Here's a piece from "Jesse Berst's AnchorDesk", which I receive every day, that is worthy of your attention. I also just heard about it over the radio program I'm currently listening to. Regards,JB >__________Berst Alert____________________ > READ THIS FIRST! VIRUS ATTACK -- > "MELISSA" BRINGS DOWN MICROSOFT, INTEL, OTHERS > >http://www.anchordesk.com/a/adt0329ba/3233 > > Stop what you're doing. Read this story. Then take > immediate steps to protect yourself. The malicious > "Melissa" virus spread throughout the Internet over > the weekend, forcing major companies to shut down > their email systems. Our team has assembled a survival > kit to protect you and your company. Full instructions > and links at the site.

Sorry, hit the wrong button. I'm trying to track down any type of information on my greatgrandparents and my grandfathers siblings. From what I've been told by my father that all seemed to have spelled their last names differently and it's making the search very difficult. If any of the following sounds familar to anyone please contact me. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. 1. Anthony (Antoni) Skabowski b.Poland d. NY married Antonette ? b. Poland d. NY summer of 1957 (family supposedly had a farm somewhere in Upstate NY) Children: Tess, Margie, Estelle, Joseph(Josef,Jozef),Steven(Stephen,Stefen),Ann Jean, Frances(is), and Stanley (my grandfather) I know that Stanley was born 2/3/1903 in Jersey City, NJ. Don't know anything about any of the other children.My grandfather changed the spelling of his last name so not sure what to ask for when i try and request a birth certificate. Stanley was a policeman who used to walk the beat according to my father. My father says that all the little children used to call him Uncle Stanley. My grandfather died 6/3/1960 in Brooklyn and is buried at St. John's in Middle Village. Stanley married 11/29/1923 to Florence Louise Bolchon b. 8/15/1904 in Brooklyn,NY d. 3/25/1995 in Millville,NJ. Stanley and Florence had 3 children, Richard, Stanley(my father) and Claire. What I'm really hoping for is that someone will recognize these names and either know something or someone who does. Never know, maybe a relative of grandfathers siblings. Any help appreciated. Loretta Schabowsky Sutton in Millville, Cumberland Co., NJ Searching-Skabowski,Schabowsky,Bolchon(Bolchonus),Luby(Lubowski)

I'm trying to track down any type of information on my greatgrandparents and my grandfathers siblings. From what I've been told by my father that all seemed to have spelled their last names differently and it's making the search very difficult. If any of the following sounds familar to anyone please contact me. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. 1. Anthony (Antoni) Skabowski b.Poland d. NY married Antonette ? b. Poland d. NY summer of 1957 (family supposedly had a farm somewhere in Upstate NY)

Cherry writes> > Do any of you helpful people at this newsletter know where a letter of intent > to become a citizen and citizenship papers would have been filed around > 1855-1860? Cherry, You can e-mail the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) for state of New York, they will do a 5 year search. archives@newyork.nara.gov NARA will respond with a snail mail letter usually in 3 to 4 weeks if they can or cannot find the person you are searching for. Give them as much info as possible, i.e. persons name, address at time of filing (if known), date of birth, etc. Here is a sample e-mail I have been using: Dear NARA, I am seeking the 1st papers (Declaration of Intent) and immigration certificate of John Doe (person you are looking for). His DOI should have been filed between this date to this date. John Doe 123 Main St. Anytown, NY Date of Birth- 12 Feb 1855 Please e-mail me on the out come of your search and notify me of the cost to get a copy of his records. Thank you in advance. Your Name address e-mail address day time phone number Hope this helps. Edwin Ernest Coad III Orlando, Florida eecoad@iag.net Researching: COAD, CARNE, HARRIS, VAUGHAN, OWEN(S), BOSLEY, HUGHES, WILLIAMS

Do any of you helpful people at this newsletter know where a letter of intent to become a citizen and citizenship papers would have been filed around 1855-1860? Thomas McCurn was a resident of Lee Center, Town of Lee at that time. Also, does anyone know if there is an index being taken of St. Peter's Cemetery in Rome? Thanks Cherry McCurn