Hi Virginia, and list, Pat Lewis often provides an accurate description of NYC during her earlier lifetime, and I was curious about her sources, too. [Look at the archives for NY-Irish; Pat was the first person to post years ago.] Do you know that I was NYC-Orphanages list admin? It's personally near and dear to me. I've interviewed many former residents of "homes." There are many 1st person accounts in the archives of the NYC-L and NYC-Orphanges lists. Nuns may have rescued people at various institutions, BUT the Catholic church received per capita, per "inmate" monies from NY State for doing so [Albany NY records], AND people were often abused further by their so-called rescuers. (It's a damn good thing that "the meek shall inherit the earth.") I'm speaking of Catholic and non-denominational orphanages, Orphan Trains, elderly homes, homes for unwed mothers, TB institutions, psych hospitals, facilities for mentally challenged, etc. Too many perverts thrived on abusing society's disenfranchised. I'm not saying all nuns, but nuns were sadistic abusers and even "assisted murders," besides public humiliation and psychological abuse. These transgressions occurred in Ireland [see "Magdalene Laundries" & mass graves of infants near unwed mothers' homes.] and metro New York City. The Catholic Church in metro NYC would have folded decades ago had lawsuits been file against sisters as well as priests. And, Catholic "asylums" [were anything but] chronically overworked nuns. One sister might supervise a dorm floor of two hundred children at night, after teaching all day. No wonder we witnessed knuckle beaters and even pugilistic nuns! The "saintly" sisters were certainly overwhelmed ad nauseam, unlike priests who were revered and lived comfortably. As I said, this is a topic near and dear to my heart. Barb (Irish & Catholic) [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: VLB via <[email protected]> To: Pat Lewis <[email protected]>; ny-irish <[email protected]>; ny-irish <[email protected]> What is the source of this account? I'm curious. I do know that Catholic sisters provided a refuge for many thousands of children from terrible situations, including child abuse and even death. The children in those institutions were the lucky ones compared to those left to fend for themselves on the street--and they were many. For factual information, you might like to read 'Habits of Compassion, Irish Catholic Nuns and the Origins of New York's Welfare System, 1830-1920' by Maureen Fitzgerald. It's based on her PhD dissertation at the University of Wisconsin and is fully documented. Virginia =========================== > From: Pat Lewis <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: IRISH POOR > Date: October 20, 2015 3:20:09 PM EDT > To: [email protected] > > THE IRISH POOR DIDN'T DO MUCH BETTER OVER HERE IN THE USA…THERE WERE PLACES SIMILAR TO THESE "NON-JAILS) WITHIN THE RC CHURCH OWNED AND RUN BY NUNS HERE IN THE USA. ALL YOUR OWN CLOTHING WAS TAKEN AWAY, MAYBE GIVEN TO A RELATIVE BUT NOT NECESSARILY SO, > YOU WERE GIVEN CLOTHING DONATED BY MANUFACTORIRES IN DIFFERENT SIZES, DRESSES, SKIRTS AND BLOUSES…THE DRESSES WORN ON SUNDAY AND HOLIDAYS, YOU DID GET TO WEAR YOUR OWN UNDERWEAR THO….AND YOU WASHED IT EVERY NIGHT HOPING DRY IN THE MORNING, MOST PEOPLE HAD TWO SETS . YOU MADE YOUR OWN BEDS AND KEPT YOUR AREA NEAT AND CLEAN OR THINGS WERE THROWN AWAY. FAMILY COULD LEAVE AN ALLOWANCE, USUALLY NOT MORE THEN $10, FOR ANYTHING YOU NEEDED OR WANTED TO BUY, SHAMPOO, PERSONAL SOAP, NO MAKE UP THO….AND SOME CANDY, BACK WHEN IT WAS 5 CENTS. CHRISTMAS PRESENTS WERE OPENED AND IF NOT APPROVED, SENT BACK OR THROWN AWAYAND NOT ALWAYS A CARD TO SAY WHO FROM. YOU COULD WRITE LETTERS TO FAMILY, BUT ALL WAS READ FIRST BEFORE MAILING..IF NOT APPROVED IT DIDN'T GET MAILED. THIS WAS BACK IN THE 18850-1960 TIIME PERIOD > VISITING DAY WAS ONE PERSON AT A TIME, A CHOICE BETWEEN WHICH PARENT FIRST , IF YOU HAD ANY THAT WOULD VISIT. THIS WAS A PLACE FOR GIRLS ONLY….I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THE BOYS PLACES BUT THERE WAS NO COMMUNICATION OR VISITING WITH THEM. > YOU WORKED IN DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS TO LEARN A TRADE AFTER EACH SCHOOL WAS OUT AT 3PM, THEN WORKED TO 5:30, THEN DINNER AT 6. > THEN HOMEWORK DONE AND BEDTIME AT 9! THERE WAS THE CLEANING DE''T , ART DEP'T, HAIR, AND MANICURE , THE KITCHEN AND LAUNDRY…YOU WOULD BE ASSIGNED AS THE MAIN NUN CHOSE. > > TODAY THINGS ARE DIFFERENT, I THINK. OU DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE DONE ANYTHING BAD, STEAL, ROB, FIGHT ETC… FAMILY BREAK UP WAS THE USUAL REASON.