Thanks for the help and inspiration Bob & Gail. Gleaned these facts from hard copied documents. I'd like to find Peter's German birth place circa 1836 & NYC passenger list circa 1853. US CENSUS says Prussia, but NATZ says Hesse Darmstadt. Peter KRAMER ( 16 Sept 1836- 234 April 1897) BIRTH DOB: Sept 19 1836 [exact from DC 4/23/1897] Parents: Peter & Katharina KRAMER [exact from DC 4/23/1897] MARRIAGE: New York, NY [Family Search] 1858, June 28; Age 21, almost 22 LIVED New York, NY 44 years, or since about 1853 [exact from DC 4/23/1897] Renounced Loyalty to "Duke of Hesse Darmstadt" [1860/MAY NATZ] DEATH: New York, NY [have DC 4/23/1897] 543 East 84th St, NY, NY 10028 Barb [email protected]