FYI I viewed these certificates at the Archives, but did not purchase them. 1) Manhattan Birth Margaret McKENNA---5th child Date: 31 Oct 1896; Cert # 46594 Father: Thomas McKENNA, age 32, b.IRE Mother: Annie COOK, age 28, b. NY Address:131 Clinton 2) Manhattan Birth Margaret Jane McKENNA---6th child Date: 3 Nov 1894 ;Cert #51972 Father: William M. McKENNA, age 37, b. SCOT Mother: Jane MULLIN, age 34, b. IRE Address: 1805 Second Ave. 3) Manhattan Births "Female" McKENNA---8th child Date: 25 Oct 1896 ;Cer t# 45356 Father: William J. McKENNA, age 44, b. USA Mother: Mary Ana O'SHAUGHUSPHY, age 39, b. US Address: 10 Maguire St. There are two of us with NYC McKENNA ancestors. Please reply offlist, if you have any. Barb N of NYC ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Sue, As previously posted, all the boroughs (there are 5 of them since 1898) are part of New York City, but because the USPS slices and dices New York City into 7+ "postal cities", the majority of places in New York City have an other than a "New York, NY" mailing address even though they are in New York City. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

Yes- that does help; I haven't really had a chance to read the other posts yet so that I can grasp the complexities. Have had other things going on. Thanks, Sue -----Original Message----- From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Soyamaven@aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 7:15 PM To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYNEWYOR] duh question Sue, As previously posted, all the boroughs (there are 5 of them since 1898) are part of New York City, but because the USPS slices and dices New York City into 7+ "postal cities", the majority of places in New York City have an other than a "New York, NY" mailing address even though they are in New York City. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar. ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sue, One more thing to remember ... Although Manhattan is the name of the Borough, and how we refer to the island, it is NOT used in the postal address, nor in the address for genealogical records. If the certificate is for an event that actually happened in NYC in the Borough of Manhattan (which is on Manhattan Island) the correct entry would be: New York, New York county, NY -- Laura (who lives in Brooklyn and used to live in Manhattan)

Well, on census records it records it differently in different years- I may need to look at a lot of them again- I am not a detail person; also if you look on familysearch, it says NYC, NY County, NY; I guess I used to think of all of the boroughs as being a part of NYC- this might come from reading old city directories- the library across the street has them from the beginning up to about 1889 and then you go to SL for the rest of them. I did't realize I was confused about it, and it is a bit embarrassing having come from that area. And when you live in a Conn. suburb of NYC, even NY means NYC to you- I lived there until I was in high school. Thanks, Sue -----Original Message----- From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of gothamgal Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:11 PM To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYNEWYOR] duh question Sue, One more thing to remember ... Although Manhattan is the name of the Borough, and how we refer to the island, it is NOT used in the postal address, nor in the address for genealogical records. If the certificate is for an event that actually happened in NYC in the Borough of Manhattan (which is on Manhattan Island) the correct entry would be: New York, New York county, NY -- Laura (who lives in Brooklyn and used to live in Manhattan) ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not necessarily true! Beginning in the mid-1940s in NYC, death certificates just say natural causes or not depending upon the case. Diane Jacobs Somerset, NJ -----Original Message----- From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of NANCY J. CURRAN Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:24 PM To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Death certificate It's a good idea to get the complete copy of the original death certificate from whatever source holds it. The cause of death is likely to be completely stated, along with extensive other information.   Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State I have a 1956 death cert index reference that lists cause of death as a code. The code number is 153. Is there anybody here who knows what that means? Loreen Wells ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gabriele Harkey, Yes, the geography and governmental organization of New York City are very confusing, and hopefully the following can make it less confusing to you and others: Today, NYC includes 5 boroughs (administrative districts of New York City) that are coterminous with 5 counties (political sub-divisions of New York State); and, simultaneously, NYC is also coterminous with 7+ postal cities. But, this wasn't always the case ... Downstate New York State has its own special geography ... where things can be a bit confusing to outsiders as well as to long time residents, and for a full explanation of the idiosyncrasies of the geography and governmental organization of New York City, read on: Beginning on November 1, 1683, the day when the Province of New York created the original 12 counties (Albany, Cornwall, Dukes, Dutchess, Kings, New York, Orange, Queens, Richmond, Suffolk, Ulster and Westchester), the City and County of New York included only the Island of Manhattan (and a few small islands in the East River). The first change doesn't come until almost 200 years later, when, in 1873, the City and County of New York annexed the "western" Bronx (all or parts of the Town of Kingsbridge, the Town of West Farms and the Town of Morrisania; or, in other words, the area west of the Bronx River and south of the City of Yonkers) from Westchester County. This annexed area was initially called the "Northern Annex". This was followed in 1895, when the City and County of New York annexed the "eastern" Bronx (most of the Town of Westchester and portions of the Town of Eastchester and the Town of Pelham) and in 1896, when City Island was annexed too, from the Town of Pelham in Westchester County as well. There is a small change on June 15, 1886 when the Lloyd's Neck peninsula is transferred from the Town of Oyster Bay, then in Queens County to the Town of Huntington, Suffolk County. The big change comes in 1898, when the City and County of New York, the City of Brooklyn/Kings County, Richmond County (Staten Island) and the western-quarter of Queens County (the City of Long Island City, the Towns of Newtown, Flushing and Jamaica and the Rockaway peninsula of the Town of Hempstead) are consolidated into the new New York City. On January 1, 1899, as the eastern three-quarters of Queens secede and form Nassau County, the Rockaway peninsula of the Town of Hempstead remains behind as part of Queens. Then in 1914, the Bronx County separates from New York County. (Thus, for 16 years, from 1898 to 1914, New York City was made up of 5 boroughs, but only 4 counties.) Simultaneous to these changes, in 1851, Kings County consists of 2 cities (Brooklyn and Williamsburgh) and 6 towns (Bushwick, Flatbush, Flatlands, Gravesend, New Lots and New Utrecht). In 1854, the City of Brooklyn annexes the City of Williamsburgh and the Town of Bushwick (these annexed areas are refererred to as the Eastern District); in 1886, the City of Brooklyn annexes the Town of New Lots; in 1894, the City of Brooklyn annexes the Towns of Flatbush, New Utrecht and Gravesend; and, in 1896, the City of Brooklyn annexes the Town of Flatlands and becomes coterminous with Kings County. Now, to make this even more complicated, the U.S. Postal Service has divided the City of New York into 7+ postal cities: New York (covers Manhattan and the Bronx), Staten Island, Brooklyn (covers most of Brooklyn and parts of northwest and southwest Queens), Long Island City (most of the original Town of Newtown in Queens), Flushing (includes all of the original Town of Flushing and parts of the Town of Newtown in Queens and also part of what was Town of Bushwick in Brooklyn), Jamaica (most of the original Town of Jamaica in Queens and a small area in what was the East New York section of the Town of New Lots in Brooklyn) and Far Rockaway (in Queens). (Additionally, a few small areas in the Bronx are serviced by post offices located in Westchester County and hence have "Westchester" mailing addresses, such as "Yonkers, NY", "Pelham Manor, NY", etc.) Lastly, but not last by any means, New York City is divided into 5 boroughs (city administrative districts) and each of these 5 boroughs are coterminous with one of the 5 vestigial counties (sub-divisions of New York State) as: ......Borough............County ......Manhattan.........New York ......Staten Island.....Richmond ......Brooklyn...........Kings ......the Bronx.........the Bronx ......Queens............Queens Note: Prior to 1975, the Borough of Staten Island was the Borough of Richmond. A more detailed geography of NYC follows my name. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar. The following detailed geography was derived from information in an eMail sent by Nancy Coleman (ncroots@worldnet.att.net) to "NYC-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com" on January 17, 2000. The Bronx County/Borough the only part of NYC that is on the mainland, is a peninsula, north of Manhattan, separated from Manhattan Island by the Spuyten Duyvil Creek and the Harlem River. Also includes North Brother Island, South Brother Island, Riker's Island, City Island, Hart Island, and numerous other small islands in the Long Island Sound. It is bordered to its north by Westchester County. Kings County/Borough of Brooklyn is the westernmost part of Long Island and it is bordered on the northeast by Queens County/Borough and includes many sanctuary islands in Jamaica Bay, to its southeast. It is bordered to its south by the Rockaway Inlet, the Atlantic Ocean, Gravesend Bay, Lower NY Bay, and to its west, Upper New York Bay and the East River. New York County/Borough of Manhattan: is an island, bordered on the West by the Hudson (aka North) River, the east by the East River and the Harlem River, and on the north by the Spuyten Duyvil Creek and the Harlem River. Also includes Roosevelt Island, Governors Island, and Randalls/Wards Island, as well as Ellis and Liberty Islands. Queens County/Borough is on Long Island and includes the Rockaway Peninsula, and many islands within Jamaica Bay. Most of its islands are a part of the Gateway National Recreation Area (National Park Service) and are wildlife refuges and bird sanctuaries. Broad Channel being the exception, which is residential. Queens runs the entire width of Long Island with the East River and Long Island Sound to the north, Kings County/Borough of Brooklyn to its southwest, Nassau County to its east, and Jamaica Bay and the Atlantic Ocean to its south. Richmond County/Borough of Staten Island is an island, lying south of Manhattan Island, bordered by New Jersey to its west (separated by the Arthur Kill), NJ to its north (separated by the Kill Van Kull), Upper NY Bay to its east, and Lower NY Bay and the Atlantic Ocean to its south. Also includes Shooter's Island, Prall's Island, and Island of Meadow - all of which are bird sanctuaries. Also, to its south, are Hoffman Island and Swinburn Island which are part of the Gateway National Recreation Area, administered by the US National Park Service.

Hi Sue, Depending on the year, the "New York, NY" mailing address could mean any location in Manhattan and the Bronx, or just Manhattan, as is the case currently. You need to be aware that in addition to the 5 different New York State counties that are currently coterminous with the 5 different New York City boroughs, there is also the geographic confusions caused by the 7+ non-conforming postal zones that overlap New York City, with the result that the majority of places in New York City have other than a "New York, NY" mailing address. If the death occurred AFTER January 1, 1898, and the death occurred in "Brooklyn", then you might want to record it as: Kings County, coterminous with the New York City Borough of Brooklyn ("Brooklyn, NY" mailing address). But, you should be aware that there are places in Queens, such as a small part of Howard Beach, that have a "Brooklyn, NY" mailing address, and if the death occurred there, then you might want to record it as: Queens County, coterminous with the New York City Borough of Queens ("Brooklyn, NY" mailing address). For a more detailed explanation, please see my immediately following reply to Gabrielle Harkey, responding to her response to your query. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

I really said duh, when you mentioned Brooklyn as being Kings Co as I knew that, but suddenly got county and burrough mixed up in my mind wondering about these two- I think it was the Bronx, Bronx that threw me. I am actually originally from Old Greenwich, Conn, and was born at St Vincent's Hospital. My childhood doctor, I have discovered, took care of 5 generations of females- his name is on so many of my death records, it amazes me. These explanations are really great. Thanks to both of you. I have been in Manhattan plenty of times, and also in Brooklyn, but not too many of the other areas. Like I said, all of my lines lived in NYC. So far I am not back to the 1700's on any of them, so I am mostly concerned about the 1800's up. My grandmother was brought up on W 107th, across from the Shinassi Mansion, moved to Great Neck when married, and then to Conn, and later on to Fla. I have old photos of the Shinassi Mansion in her album, had done some reading about the original owner, and decided to google him; I discovered he has a gt granddaughter there, and called her on the phone. I sent her some photos. There was a tunnel under the mansion which went to the Hudson- it is now closed. There were also rumors, but I didn't mention that to her, but it is fun to think about- I did a neighborhood study on that area, and it would make a great story! Sue

It's a good idea to get the complete copy of the original death certificate from whatever source holds it. The cause of death is likely to be completely stated, along with extensive other information.   Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State I have a 1956 death cert index reference that lists cause of death as a code. The code number is 153. Is there anybody here who knows what that means? Loreen Wells

New York is Manhattan, New York County. Bronx is the county of Bronx. Staten Island is Richmond County. Brooklyn is Kings County, Queens is Queens County. Brooklyn before 1900 was part of NYC (Manhattan) confusing? yes ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Maxwell To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: [NYNEWYOR] duh! question Considering that all of my ancestors lived in NYC, it just dawned on me that I am not exactly sure how you write where they lived, into your program, if you know the borough. For example, would you write Brooklyn, New York City, New York, New York? I am asking this as I saw a death on ancestry that said the person died in Bronx, Bronx, New York. And since NYC is called different things at different times, do I use Manhattan, New York City or what? And I guess if a record says NYC it could mean any borough. But now that germangenealogygroup is providing me with places of marriage so I am beyond the census "New York" as a place. Sue ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a 1956 death cert index reference that lists cause of death as a code. The code number is 153. Is there anybody here who knows what that means? Loreen Wells

Considering that all of my ancestors lived in NYC, it just dawned on me that I am not exactly sure how you write where they lived, into your program, if you know the borough. For example, would you write Brooklyn, New York City, New York, New York? I am asking this as I saw a death on ancestry that said the person died in Bronx, Bronx, New York. And since NYC is called different things at different times, do I use Manhattan, New York City or what? And I guess if a record says NYC it could mean any borough. But now that germangenealogygroup is providing me with places of marriage so I am beyond the census "New York" as a place. Sue

Robert Edward Walker d. 25 Jun 1865 Elizabeth Sarah Blunt Walker d. 25 Feb 1869 Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York No. 2654 Path Side Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Garrity To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen What are the dates of both deaths, Gabriele? Jim Gabriele Harkey wrote: > yes, see, that is an issue. They appear in the Smethwick (Staffordshire UK) 1861 census, Robert is a master cabinet Maker (and Victualer but , heh, seems a common thing in England). > > I could not find emigration/immigration for them. A son may have emigrated with a cousin Perkins in 1865/6....... Don't know if he followed a parent, or if they followed him. I have an almost perfect match for Robert Walker (jr) and James Perkins coming to the states but in either case Robert and Sarah Elisabeth (BLUNT) Walker were not on the same vessel. > > All I know is they were in England in 1861 and one shows up dead NY 1865 and reinterned later. I do have a death card the family published (for each) but it gives only death date and that they died in NY, not defining Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc. > > Sadly, even though I have them in the 1861 England census, their arrival and deaths fall into the hole of USA census, being 60 and 70. > > Shoot me now :) > > Gabriele > > this has been such a brick wall for a long time > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Garrity > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > Gabrielle, do you have copies of their death records? Where did they reside at the time of their passing? > > I would bet that they were originally buried in another cemetery/churchyard initially. According to Carolee Inskeep's Book, "The Graveyard Shift", Evergreen received thousands of re-interments from burial grounds in Manhattan, which were being phased out so the land > they stood on would be available for redevelopment for other uses. > > Jim > > Gabriele Harkey wrote: > > > ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: > > > > would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. > > > > Gabriele > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gabriele Harkey > > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM > > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info > > > > Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York > > No. 2654 Path Side > > Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 > > E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 > > > > sigh > > > > Gabriele > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com > > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > > > Hi Gabriele, > > I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. > > It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. > > > > Barb > > N of NYC > > > > ************************************* > > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ************************************* > > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What are the dates of both deaths, Gabriele? Jim Gabriele Harkey wrote: > yes, see, that is an issue. They appear in the Smethwick (Staffordshire UK) 1861 census, Robert is a master cabinet Maker (and Victualer but , heh, seems a common thing in England). > > I could not find emigration/immigration for them. A son may have emigrated with a cousin Perkins in 1865/6....... Don't know if he followed a parent, or if they followed him. I have an almost perfect match for Robert Walker (jr) and James Perkins coming to the states but in either case Robert and Sarah Elisabeth (BLUNT) Walker were not on the same vessel. > > All I know is they were in England in 1861 and one shows up dead NY 1865 and reinterned later. I do have a death card the family published (for each) but it gives only death date and that they died in NY, not defining Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc. > > Sadly, even though I have them in the 1861 England census, their arrival and deaths fall into the hole of USA census, being 60 and 70. > > Shoot me now :) > > Gabriele > > this has been such a brick wall for a long time > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Garrity > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > Gabrielle, do you have copies of their death records? Where did they reside at the time of their passing? > > I would bet that they were originally buried in another cemetery/churchyard initially. According to Carolee Inskeep's Book, "The Graveyard Shift", Evergreen received thousands of re-interments from burial grounds in Manhattan, which were being phased out so the land > they stood on would be available for redevelopment for other uses. > > Jim > > Gabriele Harkey wrote: > > > ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: > > > > would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. > > > > Gabriele > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gabriele Harkey > > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM > > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info > > > > Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York > > No. 2654 Path Side > > Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 > > E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 > > > > sigh > > > > Gabriele > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com > > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > > > Hi Gabriele, > > I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. > > It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. > > > > Barb > > N of NYC > > > > ************************************* > > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ************************************* > > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

and I did go to the Library, looked through all the death cards on file there, and any census between 1861 and 1869, nothing that matches ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriele Harkey To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen yes, see, that is an issue. They appear in the Smethwick (Staffordshire UK) 1861 census, Robert is a master cabinet Maker (and Victualer but , heh, seems a common thing in England). I could not find emigration/immigration for them. A son may have emigrated with a cousin Perkins in 1865/6....... Don't know if he followed a parent, or if they followed him. I have an almost perfect match for Robert Walker (jr) and James Perkins coming to the states but in either case Robert and Sarah Elisabeth (BLUNT) Walker were not on the same vessel. All I know is they were in England in 1861 and one shows up dead NY 1865 and reinterned later. I do have a death card the family published (for each) but it gives only death date and that they died in NY, not defining Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc. Sadly, even though I have them in the 1861 England census, their arrival and deaths fall into the hole of USA census, being 60 and 70. Shoot me now :) Gabriele this has been such a brick wall for a long time ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Garrity To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen Gabrielle, do you have copies of their death records? Where did they reside at the time of their passing? I would bet that they were originally buried in another cemetery/churchyard initially. According to Carolee Inskeep's Book, "The Graveyard Shift", Evergreen received thousands of re-interments from burial grounds in Manhattan, which were being phased out so the land they stood on would be available for redevelopment for other uses. Jim Gabriele Harkey wrote: > ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: > > would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gabriele Harkey > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info > > Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York > No. 2654 Path Side > Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 > E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 > > sigh > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > Hi Gabriele, > I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. > It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. > > Barb > N of NYC > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

yes, see, that is an issue. They appear in the Smethwick (Staffordshire UK) 1861 census, Robert is a master cabinet Maker (and Victualer but , heh, seems a common thing in England). I could not find emigration/immigration for them. A son may have emigrated with a cousin Perkins in 1865/6....... Don't know if he followed a parent, or if they followed him. I have an almost perfect match for Robert Walker (jr) and James Perkins coming to the states but in either case Robert and Sarah Elisabeth (BLUNT) Walker were not on the same vessel. All I know is they were in England in 1861 and one shows up dead NY 1865 and reinterned later. I do have a death card the family published (for each) but it gives only death date and that they died in NY, not defining Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, etc. Sadly, even though I have them in the 1861 England census, their arrival and deaths fall into the hole of USA census, being 60 and 70. Shoot me now :) Gabriele this has been such a brick wall for a long time ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Garrity To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen Gabrielle, do you have copies of their death records? Where did they reside at the time of their passing? I would bet that they were originally buried in another cemetery/churchyard initially. According to Carolee Inskeep's Book, "The Graveyard Shift", Evergreen received thousands of re-interments from burial grounds in Manhattan, which were being phased out so the land they stood on would be available for redevelopment for other uses. Jim Gabriele Harkey wrote: > ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: > > would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gabriele Harkey > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info > > Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York > No. 2654 Path Side > Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 > E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 > > sigh > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > Hi Gabriele, > I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. > It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. > > Barb > N of NYC > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes. Especially those once buried in Manhattan, were re-interred to cemeteries in Brooklyn, Queens, and LI. See paragraph three in this article about the disenfranchised initially buried in public park spaces. Title: Calvary Veterans Park http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:msDgk8N7Fx0J:www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_ park/historical_signs/hs_historical_sign.php%3Fid%3D9778+Calvary+Cemetery+NYC+ history&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&ie=UTF-8 It does seem contradictory, Gabrielle, that paupers would have a deeded plot. Barb N of NYC ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Gabrielle, do you have copies of their death records? Where did they reside at the time of their passing? I would bet that they were originally buried in another cemetery/churchyard initially. According to Carolee Inskeep's Book, "The Graveyard Shift", Evergreen received thousands of re-interments from burial grounds in Manhattan, which were being phased out so the land they stood on would be available for redevelopment for other uses. Jim Gabriele Harkey wrote: > ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: > > would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gabriele Harkey > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info > > Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York > No. 2654 Path Side > Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 > E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 > > sigh > > Gabriele > ----- Original Message ----- > From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen > > Hi Gabriele, > I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. > It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. > > Barb > N of NYC > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

ok, I should have asked them this but they were looking at me like I was nuts so I did not think of it: would the word *re-interned* imply there were moved there from within the cemetery or from somewhere else, or is there no way of knowing that yet? I think renovation or something, but then since both were dead by the first re-internment, I guess it makes no sense. Gabriele ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabriele Harkey To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen more info Buried in the Evergreens Cemetery, Brooklyn, New York No. 2654 Path Side Robert E Walker, re-interned June 22,1872 E. S. Walker, re-interned February 8, 1877 sigh Gabriele ----- Original Message ----- From: MizScarlettNY@aol.com To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] Cemteries / Evergreen Hi Gabriele, I'll check out the history of Evergreen and get back to you. It sounds like one hand doesn't know what the other's doing. Barb N of NYC ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message