Sorry, Bbokken@aol.com, but apparently you are having great difficulty in understanding the geographic confusions caused by non-conforming USPS "postal cities". Several years ago, I helped someone who was unsuccessful in searching for records for someone who had a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address until I pointed out that a place could have a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address and be in the New York City Borough of the Bronx and not in the City of Yonkers in Westchester County as indicated by the community listed in the mailing address. Knowing that the records were for someone actually in the New York City Borough of the Bronx, and not in the City of Yonkers, even though the location had a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address, enabled this person to find the records that were being sought. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

"" and I would be interested in knowing what some of you think are good history books on NYC. I have read two, and am about the read one called The Hudson River, and don't think I can manage Gotham, due to its length, but what has appealed to those of you who are up on NYC history? Sue"" Here are two more great books " The Island at the Center of the World" Russel Shorto and "Native New Yorkers" Evan T Pritchard. Once you read them you will be hooked on NY books! The first book even tells of the origination of some of the street names. The second book tells you about the people that really made the streets. Don A Native Native New Yorker in Oregon

Thanks for the definitions. It's good to have them in this form.  Now if only the world would pay attention!    Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State

YOu are almost there: neither Pelham Manor nor Yonkers are not in the Bronx, which makes ur other statement incorrect. Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" And without dealing in semantics and referring to mailing addresses it is Pelham Manor, Westchester, NY, Northern Hemisohere, The world. Bottom line, noone uses Bronx as an initial location followed ny NYC, NY for a Westchester county location other than perhaps you. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Yes, Bbokken@aol.com, neither Pelham Manor nor Yonkers are not in the Bronx, but there are places in the Bronx that have a "Pelham Manor, NY" or a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address, just as there are many, many places in New York State and the U.S., as a whole, where the community named in a place's mailing address is not the community where that place is actually located, and you are free to incorporate this information or to ignore information such as this in your record keeping. Now, it's the end. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

I agree- I never assume that if it says they were born in NY, that it is NYC- have found some to the contrary. If you can find enough records on that family you can usually figure it out; it is especially helpful when there are parents or inlaws living with the family of interest, as you can trace them back and see where they came from. Sue -----Original Message----- From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of NANCY J. CURRAN Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:05 AM To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYNEWYOR] city or state? If the identification of New York as place of birth on federal census enumerations means New York city, what is written for the other half of New York state-born folks who were born north of Yonkers? I've always assumed that in federal census listings, New York meant the state.  That said, there's a 50-50 chance it would be New York city, given the distribution of population within the state.  It would be frustrating indeed to spend all one's research time on New York city when the person was born in, say, Schenectady, although both would be listed the same, as New York, meaning the state. For more specific information, check the NYS censuses for the years ending in 5, which do state the county of birth, if in New York state, and the state or country of birth if outside the state.   Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, Barb, Yes, we still hear, and chafe at, "the city" meaning New York, as if it is the oooony city, or "the island" with similar claim to the definition.  I can claim a derivative connection or two to "the city."  My father and his parents immigrated to New York, you might say, because they settled in Bay Ridge along with many other Norwegians.  And I lived in Manhattan when I worked for American Heritage in "the city."  In fact, I was married in that romantic wedding palace, New York's city hall. The trouble with centering on New York as the definitive place is that, in modern times like the 20th century, New York state records are created in the municipality in which they occur.  My children were born in Niskayuna, the nearby town that has the nicest maternity hospital, but we brought them all home to Schenectady. When I give talks, I use the illustration that if I died during the intermission of a Broadway musical, the death would be recorded in New York, not where I live (lived?).    Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State

My original question seems to have gotten lost in the discussion. It was how to record the places in NYC on my genealogy program. Like I said, what threw me was that Bronx. Bronx, NY SS death record. I have looked through some various census years of recording the family's place of residence, and there is quite a variation in how things are recorded. Rather than go into details, as I am sure you can all do the same, I have decided to record it as it is recorded at the top of the census. Also, I think that with more recent records, for my own sake, I will record, New York City, Brooklyn, Kings County, New York, etc.. There are some records that say Manhattan and some they say New York City, and some that say New York, New York, so maybe it is historically more accurate to record it the way it was referred to at that time. Each census record has an explanation for what each term means. Unless you see some flaw in my thinking, I think we have discussed it enough; and I would be interested in knowing what some of you think are good history books on NYC. I have read two, and am about the read one called The Hudson River, and don't think I can manage Gotham, due to its length, but what has appealed to those of you who are up on NYC history? Sue

You do it your way and I shall continue to do it my way. And you keep refering to mailing addresses. Is Pelham Manor located in the Bronx. .I think not. The end. No, Bbokken@aol.com, I'm talking about a location that has a non-conforming mailing address, such as being in the Bronx, which is part of New York City, but being in that part of the Bronx that has a Westchester County mailing address, such as a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address or a "Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address, etc., etc. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

No, Bbokken@aol.com, I'm talking about a location that has a non-conforming mailing address, such as being in the Bronx, which is part of New York City, but being in that part of the Bronx that has a Westchester County mailing address, such as a "Yonkers, NY" mailing address or a "Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address, etc., etc. In many areas of New York State, as well as in the U.S. as a whole, the problem of non-conforming postal zones leads to a situation where many, if not the majority of, places have a different community name in their mailing address than the community where that place is actually located. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

You are talking mailing addresses , I am talking location.....To each his own but I do not use mailing addreses to incoporate a location. /It always has been and will continue to be for me City, county, state and variations thereof. Pelham is a town in Westchester County, New York, United States. The population was 11,866 at the 2000 census. Pelham contains two villages: Pelham Manor is in Westchester county. One does not put mailing addresses, at least I don';t, into a family file. You are overlooking one very important fact: For an event that takes place in that part of the Bronx that has a "Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address, this event took place in Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address), and, in no way, did that event take place in Pelham Manor, Westchester, NY. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Bbokken@aol.com, You are overlooking one very important fact: For an event that takes place in that part of the Bronx that has a "Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address, this event took place in Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address), and, in no way, did that event take place in Pelham Manor, Westchester, NY. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

People can record any way they see fit into their family files; bit t it is Pelham Manor, westchester, N Y the way I see it. Bronx, NYC, NY ("Yonkers, NY" mailing address), or Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address), etc., etc. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Bbokken@aol.com, Except that currently parts of the Bronx County are in the service area of, what are normally considered Westchester County "postal cities", and for those places, it might prove informative to record the information as: Bronx, NYC, NY ("Yonkers, NY" mailing address), or Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address), etc., etc. I hope this information is useful or, at least, interesting. L'Shannah Tovah* & Happy 5769, Walter Greenspan Great Falls, MT & Jericho, NY * L'Shannah Tovah (li-SHAH-nuh TOH-vuh; li-shah-NAH toh-VAH) Hebrew. Lit. for a good year. The common greeting during Rosh ha Shannah and the Days of Awe. This is a shortening of "L'Shannah tovah tikatev v'taihatem" (or, to women, "L'Shannah tovah tikatevi v'taihatemi"), which means, "May you be inscribed and sealed for a good year." This year, the two-day Jewish Biblical Festival of Rosh ha Shannah (Lev. 23:23-25) will begin at sunset on Monday, September 29 on the civil calendar.

But these death records I found said they died in Bronx, Bronx, NY-Sue ( I will read the long explanations you sent today- just got up) -----Original Message----- From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bbokken@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:51 AM To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NYNEWYOR] duh question People can record any way they see fit into their family files; bit t it is Pelham Manor, westchester, N Y the way I see it. Bronx, NYC, NY ("Yonkers, NY" mailing address), or Bronx, NYC, NY ("Pelham Manor, NY" mailing address), etc., etc. ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ************************************* Jim Garrity, List Administrator jimgarrity@earthlink.net ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Postal cities have nothing to do with how one annotates a record for genmeaology purposes. The postal city of New York covers Manhattan and the Bronx. A person incorporating a name of a person born in the Bronx into his /her record would not annotate the record as New York (postal Cuty) but the Bronx . I.e. Bronx, NYC, NY 7+ "postal cities", the majority of places in New York City have an other than a "New York, NY" mailing address even though they are in New York City ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

If the identification of New York as place of birth on federal census enumerations means New York city, what is written for the other half of New York state-born folks who were born north of Yonkers? I've always assumed that in federal census listings, New York meant the state.  That said, there's a 50-50 chance it would be New York city, given the distribution of population within the state.  It would be frustrating indeed to spend all one's research time on New York city when the person was born in, say, Schenectady, although both would be listed the same, as New York, meaning the state. For more specific information, check the NYS censuses for the years ending in 5, which do state the county of birth, if in New York state, and the state or country of birth if outside the state.   Nancy Johnsen Curran http://pages.prodigy.net/nancycurran Genealogy research and photography in the capital region of New York State

Postal cities have nothing to do with how one annotates a record for genmeaology purposes. The postal city of New York covers Manhattan and the Bronx. A person incorporating a name of a person born in the Bronx into his /her record would not annotate the record as New York (postal Cuty) but the Bronx . 7+ "postal cities", the majority of places in New York City have an other than a "New York, NY" mailing address even though they are in New York City ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

Sue, On census records I've seen, when they state NY as place of birth, they usually mean New York City, especially the pre-1900 ones...again meaning NY County = Manhattan. Barb ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

can we change the subject Sue Maxwell wrote: > Well, on census records it records it differently in different years- I may > need to look at a lot of them again- I am not a detail person; also if you > look on familysearch, it says NYC, NY County, NY; I guess I used to think of > all of the boroughs as being a part of NYC- this might come from reading old > city directories- the library across the street has them from the beginning > up to about 1889 and then you go to SL for the rest of them. I did't realize > I was confused about it, and it is a bit embarrassing having come from that > area. And when you live in a Conn. suburb of NYC, even NY means NYC to you- > I lived there until I was in high school. Thanks, Sue > > -----Original Message----- > From: nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nynewyor-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of gothamgal > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:11 PM > To: nynewyor@rootsweb.com > Subject: [NYNEWYOR] duh question > > Sue, > > One more thing to remember ... Although Manhattan is the name of the > Borough, and how we refer to the island, it is NOT used in the postal > address, nor in the address for genealogical records. > > If the certificate is for an event that actually happened in NYC in the > Borough of Manhattan (which is on Manhattan Island) the correct entry would > be: > > New York, New York county, NY > > -- Laura (who lives in Brooklyn and used to live in Manhattan) > > > > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ************************************* > Jim Garrity, List Administrator > jimgarrity@earthlink.net > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYNEWYOR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >