Lynn, It would have to be an exceptional case if they were not in the census somewhere. I'm impressed that the census takers were as thorough as they were. The only case I know of where a relative of mine was definitely missing is the Louisiana census of 1860, in which case the copies of the census itself were manhandled and partially lost. I've found all types of phonetic misspellings, one case of a water spot obliterating a last name (luckily the first names were very unique and all kinds of other issues. Max -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynn Eivers Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 3:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYMADISO] CIGAR FACTORY Hi Listers, I want to thank everyone who helped me with my research regarding the cigar factory that was in Oneida, NY. I was given a link to a website that had a picture of those who worked at the Powell & Goldstein Cigar Factory. It is quite possible that this is where my g-g- uncle, William Clapp worked as it was less than a mile from his home on Williams Street in Oneida. Considering the transportation available in 1900, (of lack thereof) it is probable but not definite. I can't claim a definite match as further research shows that there were at least eight cigar factories in Oneida. Using 21st century thinking, it is hard to believe that there was so much demand for cigars. It is also hard to believe that my g-g uncle was working as a cigar maker in Pennsylvania at the age of 12. One of the listers mentioned that Clay, NY was once called Cigarville. With Oneida having nine or more cigar factories, how many did Clay NY have? Again, many thanks for your kind help. My next project is getting his marriage certificate and I have already contacted the Historical Society for their help. Depending on what they find, I may pursue street directories, voter registration lists, etc. This particular uncle disappears after the 1900 Federal Census. For whatever reason, my grandfather's family, grandmother's family, even my husbands family did not stand up and be counted when the census taker came around. Maybe because it is tax time, I was wondering that if they were not counted, how would anyone know if they paid taxes or not. The withholding taxes from paychecks did not start until much later. Any thoughts? Regards, Lynn Eivers ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A little history on tobacco and taxes... Tobacco was the backbone of the economy in this country for nearly three centuries. Columbus observed the indigenous people of this hemisphere used tobacco and told the folks back home in Spain, and use spread all across Europe. Tobacco is how Jamestown survived - shipping tobacco to England. Cigarmaking came to prominence in 19th century in this country as a cottage industry as well as in factories. By 1830, England imported 250,000 pounds of cigars a year. During the Mexican War, soldiers discovered cigarillos and in Europe Phillip Morris began selling Turkish cigarettes in 1847. In 1850's the Duke tobacco empire began as a home-based factory in North Carolina, the first American cigarette was patented, and safety matches were invented. The first cigarette tax was passed to help pay for the Civil War after the first factory opened in 1864, producing 20 million cigarettes a year. Income Taxes did not exist until the Civil War. Before that taxation was done locally, calculated by Tax Assessors. Depending on what years you are looking at, the basis for paying taxes varied. For example, in colonial times people were taxed based on things like commodities (tea, sugar) and property, and in some places on the number of closets in the house or the number of window panes they had. Because having glass windows and closets were signs of wealth. In New England, houses were build without closets and people used armoires and wardrobes, which are furniture of course, to avoid taxation. From IRS website: The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses. The income tax was repealed 10 years later. Congress revived the income tax in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment was ratified giving Congress the authority to enact an income tax. The Census Dept and the IRS are not connected, although people often think so. The Census Bureau is part of the Dept. of Commerce. The IRS is under the Treasury Dept. The aggregated numbers tallied from the census are the basis for allocating funds at the state and federal levels, and for determining how many seats each state has in the House of Representatives. But tax officials do not have access to census information collected about any specific individuals. The Census Bureau estimates that 30% of the people do not return their census forms for any number of reasons. No wonder we can't find so many of our ancestors! Tink At 12:11 PM 4/7/2008, you wrote: >Hi Listers, > >I want to thank everyone who helped me with my research regarding the cigar >factory that was in Oneida, NY. I was given a link to a website that had a >picture of those who worked at the Powell & Goldstein Cigar Factory. It is >quite possible that this is where my g-g- uncle, William Clapp worked as it >was less than a mile from his home on Williams Street in Oneida. >Considering the transportation available in 1900, (of lack thereof) it is >probable but not definite. > >I can't claim a definite match as further research shows that there were at >least eight cigar factories in Oneida. Using 21st century thinking, it is >hard to believe that there was so much demand for cigars. It is also hard >to believe that my g-g uncle was working as a cigar maker in Pennsylvania at >the age of 12. One of the listers mentioned that Clay, NY was once called >Cigarville. With Oneida having nine or more cigar factories, how many did >Clay NY have? > >Again, many thanks for your kind help. My next project is getting his >marriage certificate and I have already contacted the Historical Society for >their help. Depending on what they find, I may pursue street directories, >voter registration lists, etc. > >This particular uncle disappears after the 1900 Federal Census. For >whatever reason, my grandfather's family, grandmother's family, even my >husbands family did not stand up and be counted when the census taker came >around. Maybe because it is tax time, I was wondering that if they were not >counted, how would anyone know if they paid taxes or not. The withholding >taxes from paychecks did not start until much later. Any thoughts? > >Regards, > >Lynn Eivers > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, I want to thank everyone who helped me with my research regarding the cigar factory that was in Oneida, NY. I was given a link to a website that had a picture of those who worked at the Powell & Goldstein Cigar Factory. It is quite possible that this is where my g-g- uncle, William Clapp worked as it was less than a mile from his home on Williams Street in Oneida. Considering the transportation available in 1900, (of lack thereof) it is probable but not definite. I can't claim a definite match as further research shows that there were at least eight cigar factories in Oneida. Using 21st century thinking, it is hard to believe that there was so much demand for cigars. It is also hard to believe that my g-g uncle was working as a cigar maker in Pennsylvania at the age of 12. One of the listers mentioned that Clay, NY was once called Cigarville. With Oneida having nine or more cigar factories, how many did Clay NY have? Again, many thanks for your kind help. My next project is getting his marriage certificate and I have already contacted the Historical Society for their help. Depending on what they find, I may pursue street directories, voter registration lists, etc. This particular uncle disappears after the 1900 Federal Census. For whatever reason, my grandfather's family, grandmother's family, even my husbands family did not stand up and be counted when the census taker came around. Maybe because it is tax time, I was wondering that if they were not counted, how would anyone know if they paid taxes or not. The withholding taxes from paychecks did not start until much later. Any thoughts? Regards, Lynn Eivers

-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynn Eivers Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYMADISO] CIGAR FACTORY When I was a young girl, there were miles and miles of tobacco growers in Connecticut around Hartford, and many of us kids even worked on them during the harvesting season for extra cash. Most of them are gone now and have been turned into miles and miles of bedroom communities. They grew both shade tobacco and non shade grown. I remember being told that the northern tobacco was usually used for wrapping. Whether true or not, I don't know!! Very early some of the cigars were hand rolled and each man had his own tools much as a sculptor has his own tools, and they carried them wherever they went. It was close to an art form. They were also very expensive and highly prized. I never knew my grandfather, but he had his own tools which have not survived after his death in 1917. I surely wish they had. However, almost every male member of the family would smoke a cigar on occasion. Most, however, smoked pipes, but an occasional cigar was a treat. My late husband also smoked a cigar on occasion. Most women hated the smell of them...actually either a pipe or a cigar. My Husband told the story that his grandfather had to go out in the hall to smoke, whatever he smoked. (They lived in a three family tenement.). My mother was more lenient. Maybe because her father smoked both, and she adored him. My father smoked both too, but during the depression there was not much money around. He smoked Granger tobacco and had paper to roll his own cigarettes, but if someone gave him a cigar, it was a treat. As far as taxes are concerned, it was also a different era. Many states like Connecticut had a Poll tax. I think I paid it once when I was 21 or 18. People hated the Poll tax. When I had to pay it, it meant I was all grown up. It was as I recalled declared unconstitutional and repealed in the early forties. You had to be really well heeled to make enough to pay income tax before WW2. My parents never did. It certainly wasn't as common as it is today to have enough money as income to have to pay taxes, but senators didn't get paid what they get paid today either. This is probably why so many politicians were so well heeled in those days. I don't think we have many poor people in Congress today either. Dorothea

Hello to all Forgive me, Tim, if I'm out of line here (Hi Tian) In my idleness, I came across a couple of videos of the Ward brothers, regarding a trip they made to New York City, shortly after filming of Brother's Keeper was finished and, apparently, about a year before the editing of the movie was finished. I'm writing with the thought that maybe the folks who knew these men, and I know some hold them dear, hadn't seen these videos. Anyway... here goes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TwvbzKcST6U http://youtube.com/watch?v=-acC5mLzul0 John

Elaine, So what level of cousinry are we? LOL Yes I am descended from Mary Barrett Dyer! My line is Mary Barrett m. William Dyer Samuel Dyer m. Anne Hutchinson (granddau. of Anne Marbury Hutchinson) Edward Dyer m. Mary Sayles Greene (gr-granddau. of Roger Williams of R.I.) Capt. Samuel Dyer m. Tabitha Niles George Dyer m. Anne Nichols Bejamin Nichols Dyer m. Palazina Wood Burton Hammond Dyer m. Rebecca W. Johnson George Burton Dyer m. Clarissa Jannett Sherman (6x gr-granddau of John Howland & Elizabeth Tilley, Mayflower, through their dau Desire Howland Gorham) Harry Sherman Dyer m. Olie Warner Ethel Dyer m. Raymond Hirst My Mother (living) Me - Benjamin Nichols Dyer was born in West Greenwich, Kent, RI, but his sons (Benjamin Wood Dyer & Burton Hammond Dyer) were born in Renssalaer County New York. - Burton Hammond Dyer, George Burton Dyer and their wives are buried in Glenwood Cemetery in Oneida, Madison Co. in one family plot, along with other of their family members. - Benjamin Wood Dyer & his family are buried in another family plot in a different section of that cemetery. - George Burton Dyer (My 2x gr-grandfather, was the soldier in the Oneida Independent Cavalry Co. during the Civil War. BTW, I'm always looking for new (well new to me) info, photos, etc. on the family. Regards, Karen from Pennsylvania =================================== Elaine wrote: Descended from Mary Barrett DYER who was hung for her religious beliefs? I am descended from her. Her people came to Chenango County, NY and are buried here. I visit the graves sometimes in New Berlin. I think my earliest ancestor buried here is Oliver Dyer. Elaine Decker Quoting Karen Fox <[email protected]>: > John wrote: > > I got this notification from another list - interesting and maybe some help > to someone: > http://alexanderstreet.com/resources/civilwar.access.htm > > ***************** > > Thanks John! I went to that site and I found info about my gr-gr-GF > who served in the Oneida Indpt Cavalry Co. (George Burton DYER) PLUS > info about his four old comrades in arms who served as his > pallbearers in 1905 (they were identified as such and by name in his > obit at the time). Not only that but I found info on another > gr-gr-GF who served in Co. C. of the 116th Pennsylvania Volunteer > Infantry out of Philadelphia. > > Whoo Hoo! > > Karen from Pennsylvania

My library has it but if you want to buy the movie, it's on Amazon. Debbie **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

Would a library be able to get that movie? I know some do have movies that they lend out. Worth asking about anyway! Pat J

Hi John, How can we watch the full version of Brothers Keeper? I really enjoyed the two clips. Lyman's voice (accent etc.) reminded me of my Uncle Bud, originally from Bridgeport. Thanks for sharing! Jo Dee http://youtube.com/watch?v=TwvbzKcST6U http://youtube.com/watch?v=-acC5mLzul0 **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

Joan, Yes, I was the one. I liked that family very much--Pauline, Bob, Stub, and Eudora Barden. Would appreciate a copy of the obit. Thanks. Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: "M. Joan Meddaugh" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: [NYMADISO] Pauline > My forgetter is on the fritz again, which is not unusual for me. And I > have forgotten who it was that was on this list that had worked on the > Barden farm many years ago. > > I think his first name was Charles, but then again I could be wrong. > Well anyway, if this person is still living, I wanted to let him know > that Pauline Barden passed away Easter Sunday March 23rd. Her husband > died a number of years ago. > > I have a copy of the obit I can send if he would like. > > Joan in Candor, NY > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 8:23 AM >

Thanks for that link. As I was looking over those great old photos, I kept thinking... if a malpractice lawyer saw these pictures, he'd be drooling - especially over the one of the toboggan slide... John

My forgetter is on the fritz again, which is not unusual for me. And I have forgotten who it was that was on this list that had worked on the Barden farm many years ago. I think his first name was Charles, but then again I could be wrong. Well anyway, if this person is still living, I wanted to let him know that Pauline Barden passed away Easter Sunday March 23rd. Her husband died a number of years ago. I have a copy of the obit I can send if he would like. Joan in Candor, NY

Thanks for reminding me. It was, of course, the Powell and Goldstein factory.Tthe Goldstein house (almost a mansion) still stands and among the later owners were people with $. Doctors, etc. They used to entertain with dances, etc in the upstairs ball room. "The big three" of such houses that I know of were that one, the Chapel house (across the street from where I grew up), and my only "rich" relative's house--Will and Ada Page Stone. Chas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jopageri" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [NYMADISO] Cigar Factory > http://www.midyork.org/oneida/OPL_LOCAL_HISTORY/OPL_JAZZ_AGE.htm > > Go to this link and you'll see a photo of Powell & Goldstein, a cigar > factory in Oneida in the 1920's. > > Herma > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 > 8:23 AM > >

I also found a reference to an article about the Powell & Goldstein factory: Hubbard, Russell G., "Smoke Rings from the Past: A History of the Powell & Goldstein Cigar Co., " Madison Co. Heritage No. 11 (Jan. 1982) pp. 1-10. I don't have the article though. Herma

http://www.midyork.org/oneida/OPL_LOCAL_HISTORY/OPL_JAZZ_AGE.htm Go to this link and you'll see a photo of Powell & Goldstein, a cigar factory in Oneida in the 1920's. Herma

Thank you for this information. I have a letter from Charles Rohler, president of the then Local Union #39 in New Haven Ct. dated October 1964 in reply to my search. Although there had been over 30 local unions in the area in 1900, only two remained, one in New Haven, and one in Bridgeport. While this is not Oneida (Although my Grandfather also worked in Oneida), it does demonstrate what happened between the 1890's and 1964. Connecticut was a big tobacco producing state, now those farms are long gone. It shows what can happen over time. I am sure that something like it happed in and around Oneida. A second letter from the Cigar Makers International Union of America also says: "Our Local unions in Albany, New York, and Union Hill (NJ) gave up their charters many years ago and we can find no further information." A third letter from a Mr. Van Horn, International President to my mother dated February 1940 states that even then the records were "not in shape to permit us to find from what place he came" and they were not able to trace him back before 1895 at which point he was in Union Hill. Sadly, my mother didn't know it at the time, but he was in Oneida. In short, there may be information from them should one be able to find the records if they still exist, and if you can find where they are. They are not always kept locally, but it is a try which I am willing to do. Should I get a reply from the library, I will let the list know. Dorothea

Most of the cigarmakers of those days were members of the International Cigarmakers Union. Their president was a guy by the name of Gompers who is well known in Union circles. From what I can determine so far, there was also a cigarmakers union in Germany, at least I know there was one in Hamburg. The two unions may have been allied, at least in part. Their records are hard to find as not all of them were preserved. Those that are, are in collections. These men sometimes moved around a lot. It is not easy to get information from the repositories, and what they do have is incomplete. If you have any records that may tell you from which hall he worked out of, if it still exists, you MAY be able to get information from them. If you put the name of either Gompers or the International Cigarmakers Union into your search engine you should get lots of hits. Good Luck Dorothea On 4/4/2008 4:37:42 AM, Patricia Jaquay ([email protected]) wrote: > All the comments about cigars struck a jumbled cord in my brain. If I > remember right, Clay, New York, was once known as Cigarville due the cigar > making factory and the growing of the tobacco around that area. > > It has been along time since > I've heard that name, and truthfully my memory doesn't always serve me > well. Clay is about 7 miles west of Cicero on Rte. 31 and in Onondaga > County. > > I have no idea about any cigar factory in Oneida. Just the mention > of the industry made me think back. > > Pat J. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYMADISO- > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

All the comments about cigars struck a jumbled cord in my brain. If I remember right, Clay, New York, was once known as Cigarville due the cigar making factory and the growing of the tobacco around that area. It has been along time since I've heard that name, and truthfully my memory doesn't always serve me well. Clay is about 7 miles west of Cicero on Rte. 31 and in Onondaga County. I have no idea about any cigar factory in Oneida. Just the mention of the industry made me think back. Pat J.

Pat, thanks for your reply. I think there might have been one in Oneida as three people on the 1900 Census sheet that my relative is on are listed as cigar makers. In doing research, it appears that at that time, small cigar factories were not unusual. Lynn Eivers -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Patricia Jaquay Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 6:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYMADISO] Cigars All the comments about cigars struck a jumbled cord in my brain. If I remember right, Clay, New York, was once known as Cigarville due the cigar making factory and the growing of the tobacco around that area. It has been along time since I've heard that name, and truthfully my memory doesn't always serve me well. Clay is about 7 miles west of Cicero on Rte. 31 and in Onondaga County. I have no idea about any cigar factory in Oneida. Just the mention of the industry made me think back. Pat J. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lynn, I remember the cigar store on the corner of Main and Madison. Mostly I remember the "Cigar Store Indian" standing out front. I believe the sign said "Nepoleon" (I don't know how to spell that) chuckle. I think there is a lunch room there now-maybe they sell cigars too. I don't remember where the factory was, if I ever knew. I always assumed it was in the same big building as the store. Probably David Alvord the city historian could give you all kinds of info or maybe easier to contact would be the Madison County Historical Society on Main St. Oneida. they have an email address, [email protected] Chas Williams St. is just down a block from the store. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Eivers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:57 PM Subject: [NYMADISO] Cigar Factory > Hi Everyone, > > I am looking for the name of a cigar factory that existed in Oneida, > Madison > Co., New York during the 1900s. > > There is still a cigar store on Main Street. Does anyone know if this is > just a cigar store or is it in the location of the old cigar factory. My > relative who is listed on the 1900 Census is said to live on Williams > Street > which is a short walk to the main street location. > > All help is appreciated. > > Lynn Eivers > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date: 4/1/2008 > 5:37 PM >