Wondering if anyone is researching the McDONALD surname in Montgomery County NY around 1800 to 1810. I'm searching for information on Hiram McDONALD, reportedly born there in or around 1809 of Samuel McDONALD and Alice (maiden name unknown). Of their New York doings I know only that Hiram enlisted in the U.S.Army in Rochester NY in March of 1830 and then went to serve in Wisconsin. He settled there and Samuel and Alice were also there from early 1840s. Other first names <probably> in this family are Luther, Jerome and Squire McDONALD. Grateful for any leads and eager to share information with others researching this surname. Many thanks, Peter Janke Portland, OR [email protected]

Yes, my apologies. randy -----Original Message----- From: C M Strong <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [NYHERKIM-L] Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office >At 09:02 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >>The County seat is at Hudson, NY, 12534 >> r.a.d. > > >Randy -- you mean the County Seat for Columbia County?? > >I need TOWN of Columbia; HERKIMER County!! >Thanks! > >Marsha > >---------- >ORIGINAL MESSAGE: >>>Hi! >>>Does anyone know the address for the Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office? >>>Thanks! >>>Marsha Strong >>>Gainesville, FL > > >==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >Visit the Herkimer/Montgomery Counties GenWeb page at >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/ >

At 09:02 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >The County seat is at Hudson, NY, 12534 > r.a.d. Randy -- you mean the County Seat for Columbia County?? I need TOWN of Columbia; HERKIMER County!! Thanks! Marsha ---------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE: >>Hi! >>Does anyone know the address for the Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office? >>Thanks! >>Marsha Strong >>Gainesville, FL

The County seat is at Hudson, NY, 12534 r.a.d. -----Original Message----- From: C M Strong <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:26 AM Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office >Hi! > >Does anyone know the address for the Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office? > >Thanks! > >Marsha Strong >Gainesville, FL > > > >==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >Visit the New York State GenWeb site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb/ >Herkimer/Montgomery Counties: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/ >

Hi! Does anyone know the address for the Town Of Columbia Clerk's Office? Thanks! Marsha Strong Gainesville, FL

Just found out that my great grandmothers maiden name was LESNIKOWSKI. She was from Amsterdam. Does this name sound familiar to anyone? Joli

Have you tried posting your questions to the [email protected] e-mail list? ---------- From: C M Strong Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 4:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Additional info on QUAKER COMMUNITIES needed >Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:33:59 -0700 (PDT) >Does anyone have information or know where to look for information on Quaker >communities/meetings in Herkimer and/or Montgomery counties in the early >1800s? Hello Schzhanik! Unfortunately I don't have an answer to you questions, but I am writing because I am also looking for similar information -- in my case, I was told that my grandfather was raised in a Quaker orphanage, but this would be more toward the end of the 1800's. If you could please share whatever information you receive on the inquiry with the whole list (or at least with me personally) I would very much appreciate it. And responders, if you could be sure to respond to the LIST in general, that would help me out a lot! Thanks! Marsha Strong ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== Visit the Herkimer/Montgomery Counties GenWeb page at http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/

>Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:33:59 -0700 (PDT) >Does anyone have information or know where to look for information on Quaker >communities/meetings in Herkimer and/or Montgomery counties in the early >1800s? Hello Schzhanik! Unfortunately I don't have an answer to you questions, but I am writing because I am also looking for similar information -- in my case, I was told that my grandfather was raised in a Quaker orphanage, but this would be more toward the end of the 1800's. If you could please share whatever information you receive on the inquiry with the whole list (or at least with me personally) I would very much appreciate it. And responders, if you could be sure to respond to the LIST in general, that would help me out a lot! Thanks! Marsha Strong

Greetings! It has been a long time since I posted my surnames to this list. I am researching the Butler/Smith line in Town of Salisbury, and Town of Manheim. I am also trying to find WHERE my 3rd great grandmother Elizabeth Brodock was born in Herkimer Co. Could anyone suggest where I might locate birth information for someone born in 1798, Herkimer co.? There were some Butlers and Smiths that were buried in the Town of Fairfield that I would like to find out more about. I suspect that they are connected to my line. My Butlers and Smiths reconnect later in Oswego Co. as well. What I know: John R. L. Butler ( b. 20 Mar. 1804/06 Green Co.) married on 23 May 1826 to Margaret (Lucretia) Fox (Quimby)(b. 23 May 1805) Children of John and Margaret: Lucy b. 14 Feb. 1827 prob. Schoharie Co. m. Orville Wicks in Onondaga Co. John b. 17 Sept. 1828 prob. Schoharie Co. Norman C. b. 22 Jul. 1830 Town of Salisbury, Herk. m. Elizabeth Smith in Oswego Co. Abigail b. 9 Jun. 1832 Town of Salisbury, Herk. Sally b. 2 Jul. 1834 Town of Salisbury, Herk. Henry b. 11 Oct. 1836 Town of Manheim, Herk. m. Mary K.? George b. 16 Sep. 1838 Town of Manheim, Herk. Joseph R. b. 16 Aug. 1840 Town of Manlius, Onondaga m. Elizabeth Christman in Onondaga Co. Jeanette 11 Jun. 1842 Town of Manlius, Onondaga m. Mr. Haight? in Onondaga Co. Electa A. b. 18 Oct. 1844 prob. Town of Pompey, Onondaga m. Nelson Smith in Oswego Co. Benjamin F. b. 1 Dec. 1847 prob. Town of Pompey, Onondaga died in Civil war unmarried I have not been able to find out what happened to all the children. Two of the children in this family married Smiths (who were also brother and sister) Nelson and Elizabeth Smith were the children of David Smith (b. 1804 Connecticut) and Elizabeth BRODOCK (b. 1798 Herkimer Co.) Children of David and Elizabeth Smith: William b. abt. 1829 Oneida Co.? Nelson b. abt. 1833 Oneida Co.? Elizabeth b. abt. 1835 Oneida Co.? Rosey(Roxey) b. abt. 1837 Oneida Co.? Lucy b. 1844 Oneida Co.? m. Barney Woolworth in Oswego Co. If anyone has a connection with this line I would love to hear from you!!! Sincerely, Kathy Teague

Does anyone have information or know where to look for information on Quaker communities/meetings in Herkimer and/or Montgomery counties in the early 1800s?

I am wondering if any one on Herkimer County lists knows about Humphrey and Hughes families in county in eary 1800's. My Great-Greatgrandfather, Aaron Humphrey Hughes was born in Herkimer Co., NY 19 October 1834 per his Civil War records. My grandmother told me years ago (about 40 years ago) that he was born a Humphrey and raised by a Hughes and took that name. My research seems to have born this out. Another descendent who has no know connection or correspondence with my grandmother, in a letter to Iowa County Soldier's Home had this same understanding of Aaron's origins. Further, when Aaron Humphrey Hughes' "father" --Almond Hughes-- died in Iowa, Aaron is not listed as a legal heir but he did receive money from his estate, which seems to confirm that he was not Almon Hughes son, either by birth or legal adoption. I have found no record of Almond Hughes or Aaron Humphrey Hughes in Herkimer County. It appears that Aaron was taken into the Almond Hughes family at least by age 5, as the family had left Herkimer County and appears in the McKean County, PA census in 1840, with one child listed age 5-10 which would be Aaron's age at that time. The family subsequently moved to Iowa where they remained. I would appreciate any information re. Hughes family or Humphrey family in Herkimer County that might eventually lead me to discover who Aaron Humphrey Hughes' parents were. Thanks for your time in reading and considering this. Patricia

Hello all! There is a new page on the WEB at: http://www.xmission.com/~famties/cemeteries/usa-m-o.htm that is kind of a meeting place/"swap shop" for people willing to take pictures of gravestones for others in all parts of the USA-- well, in the world, now, actually! You might want to check it out; it seems really neat -- especially if your ancestors are buried in other counties or other states. So far, the following NYS counties are represented -- do you notice some serious omissions (like almost all of central NYS!) -- hope some of you will use this service and also be able to become a volunteer -- New York Allegany U.S. Alicia Howland [email protected] New York Cayuga U.S. Joan Kilmer [email protected] New York Cayuga U.S. Merry Gantley [email protected] New York Oswego U.S. Merry Gantley [email protected] New York Lewis U.S. Grace Parsons [email protected] Possibly New York Niagara U.S. Nancy Webb [email protected] New York Onondaga (part) U.S. Joan Kilmer [email protected] New York Ontario U.S. Grace Parsons [email protected] Possibly New York Saratoga U.S. C. Wald [email protected] New York Senaca U.S. Grace Parsons [email protected] Possibly New York Steuben (part) U.S. Alicia Howland [email protected] New York Tompkins U.S. Sherry Nichols [email protected] New York Yates U.S. Grace Parsons [email protected] I know there already was one request for Herkimer County and I know these five counties are where virtually all my ancestors are. Don't forget, you will be able to get photos of your ancestors in return -- hopefully with as much care as you will put into your "random act of geneological kindness" [come to think of it, there is a page for *that* too, whose URL I have temporarily misfiled! :-)] Anyway, I hope you will check out this list and receive back lots of wonderful pictures! Marsha Strong Gainesville, FL

Too many Pollys, the bane of genealogists. (Mary ? Sarah? Sally ? etc.. ) The one intended for scrutiny was the daughter of Sir William, and spouse of Col. Guy Johnson. The data in my last pertains to that lady. Thus, this lady did die when over thirty years of age, 11 July 1775 at Fort Ontario, Oswego, NY of childbirth according to the source cited. Marianne, was the thirteenth child of Mary (Polly) (Watts) (and Sir John Johnson) This Mary (Polly) was the wife of Sir John. They had14 children. Mary (Polly) (Watts) Johnson was born 27 Oct 1753 in New York City and died in Montreal, 7 Aug 1815, AE 61-9-11. (There is a different month, September, in the book you cited.) I have found very little data of the children of the Johnsons after they left the Johstown area in 1775, except for Little Polly, daughter of Colonel Guy and Mary (Polly) (Johnson) Johnson. This represents nearly the limit of my data, subject to correction at all times. Thank you so much for your interest and help. randy -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:37 AM Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] 2 Mary (Polly) Johnsons >Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier question. The information provided in >my last post was in reference to Mary (Polly) Watts wife of Sir John Johnson. >Mary (Polly) Johnson was sister to Sir John, daughter of Sir William and > married her cousin Guy Johnson. > >Without making a trip to the Department of History and Archives, from memory I >believe she died between 1775 - 1776, and she was about 30 years old. > >Hope this helps to clarify and not confuse the situation even more. > >Sandy Allen > > >"randall a. diefendorf" wrote: > >> Gee, I wish these authors would get together about this slight matter of >> Polly's death. >> >> In "JOSEPH BRANDT 1743-1807 MAN OF TWO WORLDS" , by Isabel Thompson, >> Syracuse University Press, Syracuse, NY (1984, repr. 1986), page 153: >> >> "It was also the day [11 July 1775] on which .. a long series of >> misfortunes >> that were to befall Guy Johnson, happened. Mary Johnson, Sir William's >> younger daughter and Guy's wife, died in childbirth just a few hours >> before the party set out." >> >> According to various authors, the two daughters, Mary (Little Polly), age >> ca, 13 and Julia, age about ten, were with them. Colonel Guy's wife was >> thirty years old. randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 5:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN >> >> >Hi Randall and other interested list members, >> > >> >According to Sir John Johnson, Loyalist Baronet (by Earle Thomas, Toronto & >> >Reading: Dundurn Press, 1986), Mary (Polly) Watts d. 7 Aug 1815 from >> "dysentery >> >with symptoms of palsy". "She had been sick about 3 weeks". Their >> daughter >Marianne was also very sick at the same time and not expected to >> live, but >> she recovered and outlived her father. >> > >> >I like this book, it is well written from the "loyalists" perspective and >> has a good bibliography. Amazon.com lists it as "out of print", however the >> >Montgomery County Department of History and Archives has it as a recent >> >acquisition! >> > >> >Sandy Allen >> > >> >"randall a. diefendorf" wrote: >> > >> >> So far, so good, Sandy. What do you know about Mary (Polly) (Johnson) >> >> Johnson's deathj when she died of childbirth at Fort Ontario after they >> fled >> >> the Mohawk Valley? I'd give a lot to learn these details. Thank you for >> >> your input. randy >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> >> >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> >> Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:38 PM >> >> Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN >> >> > >> >> >To Johnson Researchers, >> >> > >> >> >Just a recommendation, verify the information on Sir John Johnson and >> >> >Clarissa Putman before using it. >> >> > >> >> >To my knowledge they were never married. However they had 2 children: >> >> >Margaret (m. James E. Van Horne) and William, b. 1770 at Fort Johnson, >> >> >Montgomery County, NY. ( m. Margaret Clark). >> >> > >> >> >Sir John m. Mary (Polly) Watts in 1773 in NYC. They returned to Fort >> >> >Johnson. Clarrisa and her children had moved out. >> >> > >> >> >Sandy Allen >> >> ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >> Visit the Herkimer/Montgomery Counties GenWeb page at >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/ > > >==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >Visit the Herkimer/Montgomery Counties GenWeb page at >http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/ >

Perhaps I misunderstood your earlier question. The information provided in my last post was in reference to Mary (Polly) Watts wife of Sir John Johnson. Mary (Polly) Johnson was sister to Sir John, daughter of Sir William and married her cousin Guy Johnson. Without making a trip to the Department of History and Archives, from memory I believe she died between 1775 - 1776, and she was about 30 years old. Hope this helps to clarify and not confuse the situation even more. Sandy Allen "randall a. diefendorf" wrote: > Gee, I wish these authors would get together about this slight matter of > Polly's death. > > In "JOSEPH BRANDT 1743-1807 MAN OF TWO WORLDS" , by Isabel Thompson, > Syracuse University Press, Syracuse, NY (1984, repr. 1986), page 153: > > "It was also the day [11 July 1775] on which .. a long series of misfortunes > that were to befall Guy Johnson, happened. Mary Johnson, Sir William's > younger daughter and Guy's wife, died in childbirth just a few hours before > the > party set out." > > According to various authors, the two daughters, Mary (Little Polly), age > ca, 13 and Julia, age about ten, were with them. Colonel Guy's wife was > thirty years old. randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 5:57 PM > Subject: Re: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN > > >Hi Randall and other interested list members, > > > >According to Sir John Johnson, Loyalist Baronet (by Earle Thomas, Toronto & > >Reading: Dundurn Press, 1986), Mary (Polly) Watts d. 7 Aug 1815 from > "dysentery > >with symptoms of palsy". "She had been sick about 3 weeks". Their > daughter >Marianne was also very sick at the same time and not expected to > live, but > she recovered and outlived her father. > > > >I like this book, it is well written from the "loyalists" perspective and > has a good bibliography. Amazon.com lists it as "out of print", however the > >Montgomery County Department of History and Archives has it as a recent > >acquisition! > > > >Sandy Allen > > > >"randall a. diefendorf" wrote: > > > >> So far, so good, Sandy. What do you know about Mary (Polly) (Johnson) > >> Johnson's deathj when she died of childbirth at Fort Ontario after they > fled > >> the Mohawk Valley? I'd give a lot to learn these details. Thank you for > >> your input. randy > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > >> Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:38 PM > >> Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN > >> > > >> >To Johnson Researchers, > >> > > >> >Just a recommendation, verify the information on Sir John Johnson and > >> >Clarissa Putman before using it. > >> > > >> >To my knowledge they were never married. However they had 2 children: > >> >Margaret (m. James E. Van Horne) and William, b. 1770 at Fort Johnson, > >> >Montgomery County, NY. ( m. Margaret Clark). > >> > > >> >Sir John m. Mary (Polly) Watts in 1773 in NYC. They returned to Fort > >> >Johnson. Clarrisa and her children had moved out. > >> > > >> >Sandy Allen > > ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== > Visit the Herkimer/Montgomery Counties GenWeb page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/

Gee, I wish these authors would get together about this slight matter of Polly's death. In "JOSEPH BRANDT 1743-1807 MAN OF TWO WORLDS" , by Isabel Thompson, Syracuse University Press, Syracuse, NY (1984, repr. 1986), page 153: "It was also the day [11 July 1775] on which .. a long series of misfortunes that were to befall Guy Johnson, happened. Mary Johnson, Sir William's younger daughter and Guy's wife, died in childbirth just a few hours before the party set out." According to various authors, the two daughters, Mary (Little Polly), age ca, 13 and Julia, age about ten, were with them. Colonel Guy's wife was thirty years old. randy -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN >Hi Randall and other interested list members, > >According to Sir John Johnson, Loyalist Baronet (by Earle Thomas, Toronto & >Reading: Dundurn Press, 1986), Mary (Polly) Watts d. 7 Aug 1815 from "dysentery >with symptoms of palsy". "She had been sick about 3 weeks". Their daughter >Marianne was also very sick at the same time and not expected to live, but she recovered and outlived her father. > >I like this book, it is well written from the "loyalists" perspective and has a good bibliography. Amazon.com lists it as "out of print", however the >Montgomery County Department of History and Archives has it as a recent >acquisition! > >Sandy Allen > >"randall a. diefendorf" wrote: > >> So far, so good, Sandy. What do you know about Mary (Polly) (Johnson) >> Johnson's deathj when she died of childbirth at Fort Ontario after they fled >> the Mohawk Valley? I'd give a lot to learn these details. Thank you for >> your input. randy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >> Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:38 PM >> Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN >> > >> >To Johnson Researchers, >> > >> >Just a recommendation, verify the information on Sir John Johnson and >> >Clarissa Putman before using it. >> > >> >To my knowledge they were never married. However they had 2 children: >> >Margaret (m. James E. Van Horne) and William, b. 1770 at Fort Johnson, >> >Montgomery County, NY. ( m. Margaret Clark). >> > >> >Sir John m. Mary (Polly) Watts in 1773 in NYC. They returned to Fort >> >Johnson. Clarrisa and her children had moved out. >> > >> >Sandy Allen

Does anyone know the fate of Dorn's Bookstore in Johnstown ? randy -----Original Message----- From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN >Hi Mary, > >You may be referring to John Vrooman's romantic historical novel, Clarissa Putman >of Tribes Hill. I haven't seen it available to purchase but many New York >libraries, especially in the Mohawk Valley, have it on their shelves. > >Sandy Allen > >[email protected] wrote: > >> I remember reading a book about John and Clarissa but can't remember the name >> of it. It was very interesting, and according to it they were never married. >> Anyone know the name of it? >> >> Mary >> >> ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >> UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the message UNSUBSCRIBE to: >> [email protected] or .... >> [email protected] for DIGEST > > >==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== >QUESTIONS? Contact listowner Kim Branagan at [email protected], >a proud Donor of RootsWeb.com. >

Hello listers! Does anyone have any information on a gentleman named Earl D. BROWN, m. Florence (unknown), living in Ilion, NY (occupation: hay faremer) and having one child in about 1915? Thanks! Marsha Strong

Hi Mary, You may be referring to John Vrooman's romantic historical novel, Clarissa Putman of Tribes Hill. I haven't seen it available to purchase but many New York libraries, especially in the Mohawk Valley, have it on their shelves. Sandy Allen [email protected] wrote: > I remember reading a book about John and Clarissa but can't remember the name > of it. It was very interesting, and according to it they were never married. > Anyone know the name of it? > > Mary > > ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== > UNSUBSCRIBE? Send the message UNSUBSCRIBE to: > [email protected] or .... > [email protected] for DIGEST

Hi Randall and other interested list members, According to Sir John Johnson, Loyalist Baronet (by Earle Thomas, Toronto & Reading: Dundurn Press, 1986), Mary (Polly) Watts d. 7 Aug 1815 from "dysentery with symptoms of palsy". "She had been sick about 3 weeks". Their daughter Marianne was also very sick at the same time and not expected to live, but she recovered and outlived her father. I like this book, it is well written from the "loyalists" perspective and has a good bibliography. Amazon.com lists it as "out of print", however the Montgomery County Department of History and Archives has it as a recent acquisition! Sandy Allen "randall a. diefendorf" wrote: > So far, so good, Sandy. What do you know about Mary (Polly) (Johnson) > Johnson's deathj when she died of childbirth at Fort Ontario after they fled > the Mohawk Valley? I'd give a lot to learn these details. Thank you for > your input. randy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy Allen <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 5:38 PM > Subject: [NYHERKIM-L] Sir John JOHNSON & Clarissa PUTMAN > > > > >To Johnson Researchers, > > > >Just a recommendation, verify the information on Sir John Johnson and > >Clarissa > >Putman before using it. > > > >To my knowledge they were never married. However they had 2 children: > >Margaret (m. James E. Van Horne) and William, b. 1770 at Fort Johnson, > >Montgomery County, NY. ( m. Margaret Clark). > > > >Sir John m. Mary (Polly) Watts in 1773 in NYC. They returned to Fort > >Johnson. > >Clarrisa and her children had moved out. > > > >Sandy Allen > > > > > >==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== > >QUESTIONS? Contact listowner Kim Branagan at [email protected], > >a proud Donor of RootsWeb.com. > > > > ==== NYHERKIM Mailing List ==== > Visit the New York State GenWeb site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygenweb/ > Herkimer/Montgomery Counties: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/

First let me thank those who have already given me help. The names I am looking for are: Theodore P. Davis b. abt 1820 in Charleston Four Corners and his wife Mary E. Foltz b. abt. 1823 Herkimer, Herkimer County, NY. Their children were: Alfredrick, Cornelia, James, Harriet, Francis, Jason and Charlie. Francis married James H. Johnson and died in 1901 in Schenectady. Thanks so much for the Historical Society's address and the list of books/CD's etc that I can look into. Kathy