Be sure, be sure, be sure to check the land records. Sometimes people do not transfer title for several generations, they just keep paying the taxes. (Yes, this does happen modernly, also) I was looking for a probate and eventually found a beautiful partition record - where the court partitioned the land between the various heirs, with a nice map and lots of excellent genealogical data. Rolene Kiesling (an attorney and an "active" genealogist) Groveland, CA

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I will follow-up on all of them. Pamela Moore Leitt

Did you check both the Grantor and Grantee indexes at the Courthouse for ALL surnames involved in this transaction? The narrow columns in these books don't leave much room for details. It might be listed under the "Estate of John Doe" (he being your ancestor) or it could be listed under "William Smith, Executor" (Mr. Smith not being related to the deceased at all, just a friend or attorney). It's also possible that the deed was recorded many years after the transaction, so you should also check later Grantor and Grantee indexes. The property may have passed through several generations of the same family before anyone bothered to have it recorded. Sometimes deeds are filed in Will Books, so these should be checked as well. If the will was contested, the bequest may never have been made. Patricia Morrow, Windham Town Historian (Greene County, NY) > I have been trying to find land records for a deed of gift for my 3rd > g-grandfather in Lexington, Greene Co., NY. The gift is mentioned in his > father's > will, but I can find no documentation for the property. We have looked at > the courthouse in Catskill and at the Vedder Library in Coxsackie. Does > anyone > have any other suggestions? > > Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Pamela Moore Leitt

Robert Shelley first married Rhoda (maiden name unknown). She died 23 Feb 1857 in Bloomville, Delaware County, NY at the age of 28. They were the parents of at least two children: Mary E. (b. about 1848; d. 5 Jun 1856 in Bloomville) and William H. Shelley (b. about 1851; d. after 25 Nov 1911). http://www.dcnyhistory.org/oldnewsidx/vrdmalz3.html http://www.dcnyhistory.org/cen_1860_kortright.html http://www.dcnyhistory.org/oldnewsidx/vrmmalz5.html Margaret Rowe was born 6 Jan 1841 in North Settlement, a hamlet overlapping the towns of Ashland and Windham, Greene County, NY. She married Robert Shelley on 10 Sep 1857 at Kortright, Delaware County, NY, her name being reported as Tamarinda Rowe. They were the parents of Eli Shelley who was born 6 Jan 1860. Following Robert's death, Margaret returned to Ashland and married Harlem G. Tompkins on 31 Mar 1863. They became the parents of four children: Harlem, Jr. aka "Harry" (b. about 1864-1865); Daniel (b. about 1869-1870); Elizabeth (b. about 1872) and Scott Tompkins (b. about 1877). Harlem, the son of Stephen and Samantha (Wiers) Tompkins, was previously married to Miss Elizabeth Beers at Prattsville, Greene County, NY on 1 Sep 1860. Elizabeth died in Ashland on 6 Mar 1862. When Harlem died in 1919, Harry was living in Connecticut; Daniel in Ashland; Scott, a minister, in Marcellus, NY; and Elizabeth was Mrs. John B. Weed of Ashland. You can obtain death certificates for Harlem G. Tompkins (d. 11 Mar 1919); Margaret (Rowe) Tompkins (d. 19 Oct 1898) and Eli Shelley (d. 25 Nov 1911) from Justine Koehler, the Ashland Town Clerk, Ashland, NY 12407 as all three died in that town. These documents should provide the names of parents and their birthplaces. The Windham Journal, weekly newspaper published at Windham, Greene County, NY, issue of Thursday, November 30, 1911, Weekly Home Happenings: DIED AT ASHLAND Eli Shelley died at Ashland, Nov. 25th, after much suffering from gangrene. He also suffered from diabetes. Mr. Shelley was born in Bloomville, Delaware county, and was son of Robt. and Margaret Rowe Shelley, the latter a native of North Settlement. Some years ago Mr. Shelley went to Miami, Fla. Here he contracted gangrene. Later his left foot was amputated, which allayed the disease for a time. He came North and for some time, until early this Fall, resided with his family at Liberty, Sullivan county. The last few weeks of his life were spent at Ashland, at the home of John Weed. The funeral was held at Mr. Weed's residence on Tuesday, the Rev. Richard Braunstein, pastor of the Ashland M. E. Church, officiating. Interment in West Settlement cemetery. Deceased was aged 50 years, 10 months and 19 days. The Windham Journal, issue of Thursday, December 7, 1911, Ashland: Eli Shelley of Liberty, died at the home of his half sister, Mrs. John B. Weed, Saturday evening, November 25. Mr. Shelley had suffered from gangrene for many months. Funeral services were held at the home of Mr. and Mrs. Weed the following Tuesday, and were conducted by Rev. Richard Braunstein, pastor of the Methodist Church. Interment in the West Settlement cemetery. Deceased is survived by his wife, Mrs. Julia Shelley, one daughter, Mrs. Grant Palmer, and her two daughters of Liberty, his step father, Mr. Harlem Tompkins of this village, one half-sister, and four half-brothers. Patricia Morrow, Windham Town Historian (Greene County, NY) > Searching information on Margaret ROWE, wife of Harlan (or Harlem) G. > TOMPKINS. Both are buried in the West Settlement Cemetery in Ashland, along > > with an Eli SHELLEY. I am attempting to determine whether Margaret was > married previously to a Robert SHELLEY in Kortright, NY, and whether she may > > have moved to Ashland upon Robert's death in 1861.

Another place where I have found deeds recorded is in the New York Department of State Dockets. Don't ask me why deeds would be recorded the the Department of State Docket books. I am licensed to practice law in Pennsylvania, so many New York legal conventions are a total mystery to me. I just know that I have found deeds and the Chancery Decree that settled General Philip Schuyler's decedent's estate in the Dockets of the New York State Department of State. The Department of State Docket books can be found in the New York State Archives in Albany, NY. Leslie Potter Glen Mills, PA Carol VanBuren wrote: > Try the Surrogates Court where the wills are kept or the County > Clerk's Office where the deeds are kept. > > Carol Van Buren > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <Libertina@aol.com> > To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:03 PM > Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Land Records > > >> I have been trying to find land records for a deed of gift for my 3rd >> g-grandfather in Lexington, Greene Co., NY. The gift is mentioned in >> his father's >> will, but I can find no documentation for the property. We have >> looked at >> the courthouse in Catskill and at the Vedder Library in Coxsackie. >> Does anyone >> have any other suggestions? >> >> Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. >> >> Pamela Moore Leitt >> >> >> >> ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== >> Over 150 family bibles of Greene County families on-line now. Track down >> your lost ancestor! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > Over 150 family bibles of Greene County families on-line now. Track down > your lost ancestor! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

Try the Surrogates Court where the wills are kept or the County Clerk's Office where the deeds are kept. Carol Van Buren ----- Original Message ----- From: <Libertina@aol.com> To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:03 PM Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Land Records >I have been trying to find land records for a deed of gift for my 3rd > g-grandfather in Lexington, Greene Co., NY. The gift is mentioned in his > father's > will, but I can find no documentation for the property. We have looked > at > the courthouse in Catskill and at the Vedder Library in Coxsackie. Does > anyone > have any other suggestions? > > Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Pamela Moore Leitt > > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > Over 150 family bibles of Greene County families on-line now. Track down > your lost ancestor! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >

Hi--what time period are you looking for? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Libertina@aol.com> To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:03 PM Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Land Records > I have been trying to find land records for a deed of gift for my 3rd > g-grandfather in Lexington, Greene Co., NY. The gift is mentioned in his father's > will, but I can find no documentation for the property. We have looked at > the courthouse in Catskill and at the Vedder Library in Coxsackie. Does anyone > have any other suggestions? > > Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. > > Pamela Moore Leitt > > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > Over 150 family bibles of Greene County families on-line now. Track down > your lost ancestor! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > --- > [This e-mail was scanned for viruses by Webjogger's AntiVirus Protection System] > > --- [This e-mail was scanned for viruses by Webjogger's AntiVirus Protection System]

I have been trying to find land records for a deed of gift for my 3rd g-grandfather in Lexington, Greene Co., NY. The gift is mentioned in his father's will, but I can find no documentation for the property. We have looked at the courthouse in Catskill and at the Vedder Library in Coxsackie. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks for any help you might be able to provide. Pamela Moore Leitt

Searching information on Margaret ROWE, wife of Harlan (or Harlem) G. TOMPKINS. Both are buried in the West Settlement Cemetery in Ashland, along with an Eli SHELLEY. I am attempting to determine whether Margaret was married previously to a Robert SHELLEY in Kortright, NY, and whether she may have moved to Ashland upon Robert's death in 1861.

Dick Dodge: In the past I too have failed to find any tax lists for this period. I researched in Greene County Courthouse et al but failed to find. Here's hoping that some more knowledgeable person contradicts me. I was seeking the parents of Oswell Root + any Root relations. Georgia in PA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Dodge" <rbdodge@sbcglobal.net> To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Tax Lists > I'm trying to determine if a person was in Greene County between > 1815-1820. In the past I have accomplished this by getting tax lists for > the particular county the person lived in from the Mormon Church in Salt > Lake City. I checked the Family History files and they don't seem to have > any tax lists from Greene County. Can anyone tell it tax lists exist for > Greene County during the period 1815-1820; if so I can I access them? > > Dick Dodge > Houston, TX > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > Moving in and Moving on - Greene County's Migrations Database - add your > families now and make the connection! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

I'm trying to determine if a person was in Greene County between 1815-1820. In the past I have accomplished this by getting tax lists for the particular county the person lived in from the Mormon Church in Salt Lake City. I checked the Family History files and they don't seem to have any tax lists from Greene County. Can anyone tell it tax lists exist for Greene County during the period 1815-1820; if so I can I access them? Dick Dodge Houston, TX

Great question, Dick. Please post any replies to the list. Thanks Dick Dodge <rbdodge@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I'm trying to determine if a person was in Greene County between 1815-1820. In the past I have accomplished this by getting tax lists for the particular county the person lived in from the Mormon Church in Salt Lake City. I checked the Family History files and they don't seem to have any tax lists from Greene County. Can anyone tell it tax lists exist for Greene County during the period 1815-1820; if so I can I access them? Dick Dodge Houston, TX ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== Moving in and Moving on - Greene County's Migrations Database - add your families now and make the connection! http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Sylvia, Have a great trip, and don't spend too many Euros...:) - Ron W. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Hasenkopf" <esi@francomm.com> To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 1:34 PM Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Greene County website > Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know > that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, > arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head > to Canada for my niece's wedding. > > There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted > in August and September. > > Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! > > Sylvia Hasenkopf > List and Greene Co Website Coordinator > Tracing your Roots in Greene Co > www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come read about > our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who lived it! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

Sylvia, have a great time off. You can take a lot of pride is knowing that the Greene Co website is the finest county website around. Best wishes. Steve von Hitritz (Blakesley/Miller desc of Greene Co) -----Original Message----- From: Sylvia Hasenkopf <esi@francomm.com> Sent: Jun 22, 2005 1:34 PM To: NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Greene County website Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my niece's wedding. There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted in August and September. Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! Sylvia Hasenkopf List and Greene Co Website Coordinator Tracing your Roots in Greene Co www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come read about our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who lived it! http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Sylvia, Have a wonderful, wonderful, vacation and give us the highlights on your return. Be safe and enjoy. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Sylvia Hasenkopf <esi@francomm.com> To: NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:34:04 -0400 Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Greene County website Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my niece's wedding. There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted in August and September. Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! Sylvia Hasenkopf List and Greene Co Website Coordinator Tracing your Roots in Greene Co www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come read about our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who lived it! http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Be careful and enjoy ! When in Canada - be on the look out for Tory's - they still hold a grudge ! ;) Jack -----Original Message----- From: NYGREENE-L-request@rootsweb.com [mailto:NYGREENE-L-request@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Hasenkopf Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 1:34 PM To: NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREENE COUNTY] Greene County website Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my niece's wedding. There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted in August and September. Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! Sylvia Hasenkopf List and Greene Co Website Coordinator Tracing your Roots in Greene Co www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come read about our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who lived it! http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my niece's wedding. There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted in August and September. Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! Sylvia Hasenkopf List and Greene Co Website Coordinator Tracing your Roots in Greene Co www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2

I'm so jealous! Have a great trip! We'll miss you but will survive without you. Sherri Wells Findlay, OH Sylvia Hasenkopf <esi@francomm.com> wrote: Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that the website will not be updated until early August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my niece's wedding. There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start to be posted in August and September. Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! Sylvia Hasenkopf List and Greene Co Website Coordinator Tracing your Roots in Greene Co www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come read about our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who lived it! http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 ============================== View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

Way to go Sylvia!!!! You deserve this vacation. Enjoy, have fun, and we will be waiting for you when you come back. Thanks for everything, Doreen Seeback. --- Sylvia Hasenkopf <esi@francomm.com> wrote: > Heloo fellow researchers. Just wanted to drop a quick note to > let you know that the website will not be updated until early > August. I, and my family, arte off to Europe tonight for a > month and upon our return we need to head to Canada for my > niece's wedding. > > There are quite a few projects in the works, which will start > to be posted in August and September. > > Hope everyone has a wonderful summer! > > Sylvia Hasenkopf > List and Greene Co Website Coordinator > Tracing your Roots in Greene Co > www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > The Diary of John Barr, Ensign in the Revolutionary War. Come > read about our revolutionary past from the eyes of one who > lived it! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your > ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi Jim, Dick and all other interested Groats, Let me start by saying what a great website you have out there, Jim. I have been checking census records and looking at the website and both of your messages (Jim's & Dick's) and; although I still have not proved the connection, this could very well be my line. The locations are right and there are so many names in common. The decendency from Johannes Groat (b. abt. 1680) to Heinrick (b. abt. 1709) to Haanes/Johannes/John (b. abt. 1738) looks most likely to me. His widow was living in the town of Windham when she applied for her pension and that is the next town to Ashland, where my 3Xgreat grandfather lived and where my 2Xgreat grandmother married and died. Mignon is an unusual name in North America, except for Quebec and Louisiana; but, my name is Mignon and Hirum's daughter was also named Mignon. Hirum was one of John's sons and I cannot be sure that my name was passed down from the Groats, but it may have been. I was named for my mother's sister and their grandmother was the child born of Lois Groat Matthews. According to your records, John and Sarah had a child named Johannes (b. 4/1781). It is possible that this is John the father (or grandfather) of Lois Groat. Family records say he was from Columbia Co. and the date could be his true birthdate. As Dick pointed out, there is a discrepancy in the birth date for my John Groat and I want to sort that out too. As previously mentioned, there is a discrepancy in listing Lois as the child of John and Mercy if their ages are even close to correct. I think she must have been a grandchild, but they list her as a daughter. BTW, if either of you are interested, I have photos of their graves, which I can scan and send to you. Dick's data also fits in many places, but the Duchess Co. origin does not coincide with my family records. Again, the names are similar and the dates are close. Prattsville is the town on the other side of Ashland from Windham. I still need to do more digging to be absolutely certain and I am going to Greene Co. in August to do further research. I will visit the Vedder for sure! They were very helpful last year when I was working on my Moss and Lord ancestors. Also, I need to do a more thorough search of the Greene Co. website. Does Columbia Co. have one too? One thing I believe to be sure is that I come from these lines and not the DeGroat (etc.) lines. I did not even know that there was a Holland Society, so have no aspirations in that direction. When I first began to search, I was looking at DeGroats too, but found nothing that appeared to lead in my direction. Thanks to both of you for your input; it was very helpful and gave me many more clues and things to check out. When I do prove my line, I will be glad to share information further up the tree if you are interested in that type of data. Your possible cousin, Mignon "Nothing is so strong as gentleness; nothing so gentle as real strength." St. Francis de Sales ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Groat" <jgroat1@midsouth.rr.com> To: <NYGREENE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [GREENE COUNTY] Margaret GROAT > There are two major and distinct GROAT lines that originate in New York. > One was of Dutch ancestry and arrived in Albany in the 1600's and > you'll find it spelled Groat and DeGroat. The second (mine) originated > with Johannes Groat/Kradt/Graet/Craat/Grod/Grad/Gradt. etc., etc., who > was among the German Palatine immigrants settled along the Hudson in > 1710. This second family settled primarily in what is now Columbia > County. You may read about Johannes and his first through sixth > generation descendants on my web page (based on a book I published in > 1986) at: > > http://home.midsouth.rr.com/groatline/Index.html > > Just click on the link to GROAT. At the bottom of the Table of Contents, > you'll find a link to the "All Name Index" which links the individuals > to their appropriate pages. > > There has been a great deal of intentional or unintentional garbling of > these two families, primarily by some who wished to gain entry into the > Holland Society. Several have gained membership only later to be > expelled. > > I hope this helps. If I can be of further help, just let me know. > > Jim Groat > ----------------- > Dick Dodge wrote: >> >> I am researching the lineage of Margaret GROAT. The 1855 NY State Census >> it indicates that she was born in Greene County c1794. In the 1810 >> census there is a John GROAT in Windham, Greene County. >> >> Also, there is a John GROAT in the 1800 census in Albany County. >> Somewhere in the cobwebs of my memory, I think I remember that Greene >> County was previously part of Albany County. >> >> Margaret GROAT was married 1 September 1808 in Kortright, Delaware >> County, to Daniel FISH. >> >> I would appreciate it if anyone could help me connect Margaret GROAT to >> John GROAT. >> >> Dick Dodge >> Houston, TX >> >> ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== >> 1850 federal census for Prattsville and Windham fully transcribed! Come >> check us out! >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > ==== NYGREENE Mailing List ==== > Over 150 family bibles of Greene County families on-line now. Track down > your lost ancestor! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~nygreen2 > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >