She sounds like someone from my mom's family, very secretive. My mom never told me she had been married before she and my dad got married. I learned very young seeing her signature inside book covers with a different surname that what I knew to be her maiden name. If she is 90, she is of an age that to have a child out of wedlock was something to be ashamed of. I'm 65 and when girls I went to high school got pregnant, they were either sent away or said they had gotten married by a justice of the peace a couple of months previously. It was nothing like today where women are no longer horrified to find themselves in a family way without a husband - and there was no such thing as a 'significant other' that seems to mean almost married. Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Lathrop" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment > The woman I am speaking off has refused to speak of this or even let > anyone know. > She is now in her 90's and this happened when she was 18. > She and her second husband never celebrated their wedding anniversary as > they > didn't want their other children to figure out that the oldest son was > born before > they were married. > But her second son by her second husband obviously knew and eventually > told > his siblings. > But no one has ever told her that they know. > I don't think she had any reason to be ashamed, etc. > but no one can ask her about why she doesn't talk about it. > > Linda Hooker Lathrop > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:18 PM > Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment > > > Thank you all who responded to my cry for help regarding reasons for > annulling a marriage. Linda, I spoke with the second husband of my > father's first > wife. He couldn't have been nicer but unfortunately he didn't know > much. > What he did say, however, was that she didn't want to talk about it. > She went > to San Diego with my father and then apparently turned around 3 years > later > and married the man I spoke with. Apparently there were no children > born in > California, so I'm wondering what happened. I'm a detective by nature, > aren't > we all, and if anyone can hazard a guess I'm all ears. I've asked > someone in > San Diego if there's a way to track another marriage and or kids born to > Paul. We'll see.... > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

I was going to jump into this thread earlier because my aunt got an annulment in the late 1940s (her husband met someone else) but I think it was money that got the annulment through. I don't know how long it took but she remarried in the church 20 years later. Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment > There is Cannon Law and then there is actual practice. I've heard it said, > even by my mother, enough money and the right paperwork can get a marriage > annulled. Basically there are as maany reasons for an annulment as there > are for divorces. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: Jillaine Smith <[email protected]> > >> > Roman Catholic anulments typically were not given for infedility. >> > You have to prove that the marriage was based on a lie and therefore >> > the vowes made were false, so no marriage actually took place. >> >> Actually, the Roman Catholic church will annul a marriage for much >> less than that. >> >> I have intimate knowledge of a case where a non-Catholic couple >> married, had a child and legally divorced after 2-3 years. >> >> TEN YEARS LATER, the ex-husband wanted to marry a Catholic girl. The >> Catholic Church sent both the ex-wife and her parents a form >> requesting information about the nature of the first marriage. >> >> Retroactively, the Catholic Church annulled this marriage so the >> ex-husband could get married in a Catholic Church. I'm not sure what >> that made the child of this former marriage in the eyes of the >> Catholic church-- retroactively an out-of-wedlock child? >> >> Ironically, the man's marriage to the Catholic girl ended in divorce. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in >> the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

My ex-husband and his first wife, who married when they were both 15, got a legal annulment after 7 months of marriage. Neither one of them were Catholic. But legally, it meant that I was his second wife, not his third. Terri Http://www.tlsprague.com Shawn's Mom 1980-2006 Http://northwest-wanderer.spaces.live.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment I'm laughing about the iron. Here's another question: Were annulments only given to Catholics and could an annulment be given to the husband if the wife wanted no children? I'm assuming the answer is yes but very unusual for a husband to want and the wife doesn't want children.

***my marriage was annulled on the grounds of "defective form." We chose to be married in a Ukrainian Rite church a block from our house in St. Louis because we knew and liked the priest, but my nominally Catholic husband did not get formal permission from the Diocese to be married outside his rite. Years later, after we were divorced and *I* became a Catholic and wanted to enter a religious community, I was easily granted an annulment because of this. At 03:02 PM 2/10/2008, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late >1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being >unfaithful? > >If anyone remembers, I made the call to my father's second wife only to find >out she has Alzheimer's, but I talked with her sweet husband who was >incredibly nice and empathic. He didn't know anything, said they >never talked about >the marriage, but divorced, or rather had the marriage annulled after only 3 >years of marriage. > >Can anybody help with this puzzle that seems to never quite come together? > >Diane > > > >**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. >(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 >48) > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message

I've "rescued" two old photographs of Don GOODRICH which were both taken at studios in New York State. The first is a photograph of Don taken at the Huested Studio in Sandy Creek, Adams, or Orwell, NY. The photograph was likely taken in the 1890's with Don appearing to be about 4-5 years old at the time it was taken. The second photograph of Don was taken at the DeLaFranier Studio in Buffalo, NY. This second photograph also appears to have been taken in the 1890's with Don about 3-4 years old at the time it was taken. The second photograph also includes the name "Gramma CROCKER" on the back of the photograph as if this is the person to whom the photographs were given. Thanks to the help of a GOODRICH Family Researcher we believe that this is a photograph of Don J. GOODRICH b. 10 Octobr 1887. In 1900 Don was living with his Grandparents, George W. & Eliza GOODRICH in Sandy Creek, NY. In 1920 Don J. GOODRICH was living with his wife Ethel GOODRICH in Chicago, IL, was newly married and had no children. Don's occupation was listed as a House Carpenter. In the 1930 census he (listed as James D. GOODRICH) and his wife were living in East Syracuse, NY, listing his occupation as Car Inspector for the Railroad and they had two children, Freda and James. I am hoping to locate someone from Don's family so that these beautiful photographs can be returned to his family. If you are a member of this family, or know someone who might be, please contact me. Thanks, Shelley

I'm laughing about the iron. Here's another question: Were annulments only given to Catholics and could an annulment be given to the husband if the wife wanted no children? I'm assuming the answer is yes but very unusual for a husband to want and the wife doesn't want children. **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

>From my experience there are many reasons for a RC annulment. I have personal knowledge of these two, although I was not involved with either one. 1. The husband changed his mind about having children and the wife was granted an annulment. She remarried and had a family. 2. The nephew of a RC priest wanted to marry a divorced RC woman with three children. She was granted an annulment of her first marriage so they could be married. > From: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:18:49 -0500 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment > > Thank you all who responded to my cry for help regarding reasons for > annulling a marriage. Linda, I spoke with the second husband of my father's first > wife. He couldn't have been nicer but unfortunately he didn't know much. > What he did say, however, was that she didn't want to talk about it. She went > to San Diego with my father and then apparently turned around 3 years later > and married the man I spoke with. Apparently there were no children born in > California, so I'm wondering what happened. I'm a detective by nature, aren't > we all, and if anyone can hazard a guess I'm all ears. I've asked someone in > San Diego if there's a way to track another marriage and or kids born to > Paul. We'll see.... > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join

> Roman Catholic anulments typically were not given for infedility. > You have to prove that the marriage was based on a lie and therefore > the vowes made were false, so no marriage actually took place. Actually, the Roman Catholic church will annul a marriage for much less than that. I have intimate knowledge of a case where a non-Catholic couple married, had a child and legally divorced after 2-3 years. TEN YEARS LATER, the ex-husband wanted to marry a Catholic girl. The Catholic Church sent both the ex-wife and her parents a form requesting information about the nature of the first marriage. Retroactively, the Catholic Church annulled this marriage so the ex-husband could get married in a Catholic Church. I'm not sure what that made the child of this former marriage in the eyes of the Catholic church-- retroactively an out-of-wedlock child? Ironically, the man's marriage to the Catholic girl ended in divorce.

Roman Catholic anulments typically were not given for infedility. You have to prove that the marriage was based on a lie and therefore the vowes made were false, so no marriage actually took place. For instance, both parties agree upon entering into the marriage to have children and to raise them as Roman Catholic. If later it is learned that one of them truely never had any intention to have children, then the marriage can be anulled. -------------- Original message -------------- From: [email protected] > Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late > 1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being > unfaithful? > > If anyone remembers, I made the call to my father's second wife only to find > out she has Alzheimer's, but I talked with her sweet husband who was > incredibly nice and empathic. He didn't know anything, said they never talked > about > the marriage, but divorced, or rather had the marriage annulled after only 3 > years of marriage. > > Can anybody help with this puzzle that seems to never quite come together? > > Diane > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002 > 5 > 48) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Thank you all who responded to my cry for help regarding reasons for annulling a marriage. Linda, I spoke with the second husband of my father's first wife. He couldn't have been nicer but unfortunately he didn't know much. What he did say, however, was that she didn't want to talk about it. She went to San Diego with my father and then apparently turned around 3 years later and married the man I spoke with. Apparently there were no children born in California, so I'm wondering what happened. I'm a detective by nature, aren't we all, and if anyone can hazard a guess I'm all ears. I've asked someone in San Diego if there's a way to track another marriage and or kids born to Paul. We'll see.... **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

The woman I am speaking off has refused to speak of this or even let anyone know. She is now in her 90's and this happened when she was 18. She and her second husband never celebrated their wedding anniversary as they didn't want their other children to figure out that the oldest son was born before they were married. But her second son by her second husband obviously knew and eventually told his siblings. But no one has ever told her that they know. I don't think she had any reason to be ashamed, etc. but no one can ask her about why she doesn't talk about it. Linda Hooker Lathrop ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment Thank you all who responded to my cry for help regarding reasons for annulling a marriage. Linda, I spoke with the second husband of my father's first wife. He couldn't have been nicer but unfortunately he didn't know much. What he did say, however, was that she didn't want to talk about it. She went to San Diego with my father and then apparently turned around 3 years later and married the man I spoke with. Apparently there were no children born in California, so I'm wondering what happened. I'm a detective by nature, aren't we all, and if anyone can hazard a guess I'm all ears. I've asked someone in San Diego if there's a way to track another marriage and or kids born to Paul. We'll see.... **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The person I was speaking of in my email was Roman Catholic, first marriage, he went out for "cigarettes" after she told him she was expecting their first child. She never heard from him again. It was annulled by the Church. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annullment Roman Catholic anulments typically were not given for infedility. You have to prove that the marriage was based on a lie and therefore the vowes made were false, so no marriage actually took place. For instance, both parties agree upon entering into the marriage to have children and to raise them as Roman Catholic. If later it is learned that one of them truely never had any intention to have children, then the marriage can be anulled. -------------- Original message -------------- From: [email protected] > Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late > 1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being > unfaithful? > > If anyone remembers, I made the call to my father's second wife only to find > out she has Alzheimer's, but I talked with her sweet husband who was > incredibly nice and empathic. He didn't know anything, said they never talked > about > the marriage, but divorced, or rather had the marriage annulled after only 3 > years of marriage. > > Can anybody help with this puzzle that seems to never quite come together? > > Diane > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002 > 5 > 48) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Abandonment is another reason. And if the wife is pregnant it is a good reason also. I know someone this happened to turn of the century. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 12:02 PM Subject: [NYERIE] marriage annullment Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late 1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being unfaithful? If anyone remembers, I made the call to my father's second wife only to find out she has Alzheimer's, but I talked with her sweet husband who was incredibly nice and empathic. He didn't know anything, said they never talked about the marriage, but divorced, or rather had the marriage annulled after only 3 years of marriage. Can anybody help with this puzzle that seems to never quite come together? Diane **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late >1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being >unfaithful? Neither of the above would be grounds for an annulment in the RC church. Anullments are usually conditioned on some sort of fraud at the time of marriage. For more details see the Wikipedia article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment_%28Catholic_Church%29 George

Exactly. My step-grandmother received an annulment of her non-catholic marriage to her third husband who committed bigamy when he married her. I'm not sure why she didn't need an annulment for marriage number two, unless he died before she applied for the annulment for marriage 3. Number one committed suicide, so she didn't need one for him. Anne (Percival) Kruszka Researching Bowman, Chinn, Davidson, Kettler, Kirtley, Klijewski, Knost, Kruszka, Maitland, Oliphant, Percival, Synos, Zalot & Zimmeth -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Richmond Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 3:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYERIE] marriage annulment >Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late >1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being >unfaithful? Neither of the above would be grounds for an annulment in the RC church. Anullments are usually conditioned on some sort of fraud at the time of marriage. For more details see the Wikipedia article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annulment_%28Catholic_Church%29 George ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.2/1270 - Release Date: 2/10/2008 12:21 PM

Can anyone tell me reasons for a marriage being annulled in the mid to late 1940's other than inability to conceive (Catholic church?) or being unfaithful? If anyone remembers, I made the call to my father's second wife only to find out she has Alzheimer's, but I talked with her sweet husband who was incredibly nice and empathic. He didn't know anything, said they never talked about the marriage, but divorced, or rather had the marriage annulled after only 3 years of marriage. Can anybody help with this puzzle that seems to never quite come together? Diane **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Margaret: > ... Westminster House I thought I at least knew the names of all those places on the old east side but this is the first time I have heard this name. good on ya! -->> And I thought I had replied to Sharon, but when I just read your reply, I realized I hadn't! Yes, Sharon - I'm VERY interested in your photos - and knowledge about Westminster House. I can send you that photo I've got from my maternal grandmother's photo album of she and others there as well to add to your collection. I loved finding info in those Buffalo City Directories. Wish I'd looked for it on those Sanborn maps, but didn't have an address then. Don? This also fits into what you were talking about re: adding depth to our family history. In this case, learning more of Westminster House may add to my understanding of the daily lives of my gr-grandparents and their four children. In turn, I'll be talking again with my 81 yr old mother about anything her mother (my grandmother Nora (WITT) Hastings might have said about it to her. And of course, I have those "silent photos" in my grandmother's vintage black-page album. Oral history. Local history. Timelines. To me, these are great components to "the things we do" to hunt down, learn, organize and ultimately preserve - the stories of those who came before us. Deb (who also has come to see that it's important that we get down on paper or audio - our OWN life stories - lest those after us wonder as they see a photo here or there - or our "certificates" - just who the heck "we" were!) :)

Don, I completely agree with you.? I wish I had done this with my aunt, who?will be 91 in a month, a few years ago.??My uncle?(also 90) has Alzheimer's and has gotten much worse the past 2 years.? She refuses to put him in a home and it?really has taken a toll on her.? I can barely have a five minute phone conversation (I live in the Bronx and she?lives in Western New York) to see how she is doing, let alone any family history.? Like you said, I know the names, but she knew the people when they were alive.? It is very sad.? She is the one who actually gave me the family history bug!? Half of her bedroom is full of shelves of her books on our family,?full of information and photos she wants to share with me, but with the situation it is impossible.? I am sure every photo has a story behind it.? The last time I?visited WNY, I could tell that she was not comfortable with me visiting her house because of my uncle.??She never knows what he will do or say.?? I have an uncle who will be 92 on my mom's side of the family.? He has all of his faculties about him, but is losing his eyesight.? I thought about asking him to write a sort of history of what he remembers, but didn't do it before, and now it is not feasible for him to do it with his poor eyesight. I am not sure when I will be able to make it to WNY, so the tape is on hold for now. Christine -----Original Message----- From: Donna <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 8:23 am Subject: Re: [NYERIE] Adding depth to your family history Touche, Don! I'm sorry I lashed out yesterday about all of these recent e-mails. I value this list. I have saved over 2,000 pieces of mail that have helped me as I am fairly new to this hobby. I just can't seem to be able to keep up with my own life sometimes. Donna -----Original Message----- >From: Don W <[email protected]> >Sent: Feb 7, 2008 8:47 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [NYERIE] Adding depth to your family history > >After reading most if not all of the recent posts it >reminded me of something I said I would do shortly >after my aunt passed away suddenly. She was the last >one in my parents generation. >To often we look at our family genealogy as just >names, dates, and places. >On one of my trips back to Buffalo, I was able to get >my aunt to sit down at a table and using a tape >recorder and movie camera (not facing her) was able to >get her to go through the old photos that she had >saved. >The stories she told that I had never heard and the >family details that I would never find looking at >microfilm, city directories etc helped me by providing >clues that she did not realize she knew. After listing >to her that day and watching the video that night I >wished I had asked more questions about my dad's and >my grandmother's life when they were alive. >My generation does not write letters anymore. The only >letters my family has is just a couple from my dad and >uncle during WWII. I stopped when I married the girl I >was writing. >I hope that some of you will take the time to write >these memories and stories down and add them to your >family history files. >I know I am going to try to start this evening by >opening a word document and try a write a couple of >sentences every night. >Even I have a few stories that my future grandchildren >or great grandchildren might enjoy reading. >I am also going to put into words the stuff I remember >about my dad and grandmother for the future family >historian that go beyond just dates. > >Thanks to everyone who gently reminded me of what I >said to myself several years ago that I was going to >do but everything else got in the way. > >Have a great weekend >Don W > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

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